The Tome Home Planning and Discussion Thread

Now we all know for sure and certain that ONE Tome Home is, well, just about the most unworkable idea since New Coke. Multiple locations are a must, as some like it hot (shudder) and some like it cold (aaah) and everyone likes the idea of a place that all the residents are Of A Like Mind to themselves.

So what are the basic ideas?
1. Large enough for a group of readers to occupy permanently.
2. Close enough to bookstore centers that Amazon and the DocuTech aren't the ONLY sources of books.
3. Located in a fairly low-tax, low-cost of living area.
4. PRIVATE residence areas, COMMON socializing areas, and a pool for Stephen.

So...what it sounds to me like we're looking for is a decommissioned or out-of-business DoubleTree or Marriott Courtyard kind of a place that can simply be bought and repurposed pretty much as-is.

That's a doable prospect, I should think.

Now...what are the other ideas? Who's next?

I was sure you were going to say a cave for Stephen!

Are we bringing family members along? If so, there will have to be some local activities for my completely non-reading husband. Plus, I would think even 75ers need a break from reading every now and again.

Indeed...so someplace near enough to a city to make it workable...like Suzanne's idea of the Berkshires, equidistant to NYC and Boston, plus all sorts of outdoorsy stuff there, plus winter sports. So that's a good idea. Plus, since this is a group effort, part of the "dues" or the maintenance fees or whatever we call 'em can be used for a bus-and-driver rental fund to go into the various cities and leave us free to wander at will.

#3: I am not at all familiar with the Berkshires, but midway between NYC and Boston sounds good.

Portland or Seattle fit the criteria. Contrary to popular belief, it's not the wild west anymore! We have more bookstores per capita in Portland than any other city. Close to ocean, mountains, desert. Lots of cultural and outdoor activities. Great coffee (one of my highest criterion!) Green and green. Not too cold, not too hot.

Hey, since we're going regional with this plan, Portland works for li'l ol' me. Bound to be some dead hotels around there for us to vulture up.

I really have no problem with anywhere - as long as it is not Texas!

Honestly, one being in Texas (a pretty part, like the Hill Country, though and NOT DALLAS or its ilk) should be okay. I need to get that dratted lottery ticket today!

animals, can we bring them?

will there be room for bigger animals, like horses, cows and such?

chickens for fresh eggs?

We need a garden too!

Now, seriously. We are all getting older, thank God since the alternative has NO appeal, and we really and truly will all be alive for a good many more years.

Living in a community environment, one with meals provided and still allowing for in-suite cooking; one with a communal library, as well as private bookshelves; a place for book circles to meet, and for authors to visit, and generally for book-related events to occur doubtless has some appeal for everyone here.

But think about this. Even the most NooKindlEreader-friendly of us likes the idea of having books around us. This isn't going to be easy one day, since tree books will fall to the march of generations. Not entirely, to be sure, the book as a physical object will continue to exist, but the world at large probably won't care as much as they do even today.

An enclave, almost an ark, of fellow bibliophiles might very well prove to be sanity-saving for some of us. A place where books as books are part of the fabric of the lives we lead could be ever harder to find.

To be honest, I think this is actually a decent business proposition. Certainly not high profit, but possibly a not-for-profit org could be set up to own and manage the place for the donor/residents. It won't ever appeal to the major property developers, but the right group of investors could see the Fahreheit 451-ness of the future and be willing to make a smaller profit than might otherwise be acceptable.

Hmmm.

>9 curlysue: I, for one, refuse to live anywhere that I can't have a dog. Others feel the same about *shudder* cats. We can have separate buildings, wings, whatever. Larger animals? Farming? I'd be against that. WAAAY too much work, and also likely to cause trouble from governmental interference. Not to mention liability insurance issues.

#12: I think living in a circular type structure with a central courtyard would be cool. The courtyard could be the social center, the shared space (besides the library, of course!)

Don't forget porches to catch the cool evening breezes before callling it a day.
#13 yes, circular central courtyard is great for Suzanne's idea (I think) for book discussions, author visits etc.

no garden either?

porches with big rocking chairs :) maybe a hammock or two

#15: I think we would have to have a garden of some variety or other, Kara. Too many gardeners amongst us.

and flowers too....

i would be willing to care for a cow or two (sure kath would help me)

lived on a diary farm, so it is not foreign to me to care for farm animals

plus i would like to get back to riding so a horse of my own would be nice... don't see any liability insurance issues if i ride my own horse :)

please! richard

#17: If you add goats to the menagerie, I am sure Richard will give in!

As far as flowers go, I was including them in the 'gardens of some variety or other.'

I'm thinking about almost an old-fashioned monastery idea -- a central courtyard with an herb garden in the middle of it, surrounded by cloisters to retreat to on warm but rainy days. The cloisters could link different wings. The wings could have everything from tiny studio apartments or even rooms for short-termers or people who just want a quiet bedroom, to larger living units.

You know, there are models for this kind of stuff. There are land trusts, in which people buy shares. Mostly being done now by people who want to go off grid and grow their own produce and live cooperatively. But no reason it can't be a tome home. The key is to find affordable land. Then there's an up-front investment fee, followed by monthly common charges that vary by the kind of living accomodation/usage. So someone who is a non-resident pays the ownership stake up front, plus a v. low common charge, while a resident with a bigger space pays a higher common charge. The idea behind a land trust is that the shares cannot be sold for a profit, and must be resold back to the trust or to a buyer of whom the residents approve. i.e. Tome Home ownership interests are not assets/investments in the classic sense.

I like the idea of having our own vegetable garden, at least, and maybe even chickens or something. But there would need to be a critical mass of people interested in doing this. Horses OK, depending on the kind of land we got, but ONLY on the basis that them what brung 'em, get to care for 'em. Personal animals (dogs, cats, etc.) are fine, except in common areas like the library/reading rooms/food prep areas. (And animals that prove to be nuisances, or whose owners don't care for them, can be banned.)

In some ways, this could be like a multi-generation retirement community, in which people could be as independent or as social as they want to be, and where they could "age in place".

We could collectively be a mover and shaker in the literary community, and invite people from the area to join us at quarterly book festivals. We could sponsor local libraries and reading projects.

oh ya those goats that when they get scared they get stiff and tip over...them kinda goats :)

we won't have to mow.....

Around 25 years ago I visited a friend living in a community like this in Denmark (not the book bit, but the general idea). He said it certainly wasn't the only one, so there should be good European examples out there, too. People took turns making meals for the group, but didn't necessarily always eat there. As I remember it, they had to do a certain number of hours a month of other things too, like gardening, but of their choice. That was to keep the right spirit to the place, not just let it become a dormitory suburb of Copenhagen. The residents all really loved it, and said few people left. There were different housing options, so it was not just all upper income people. I remember thinking how great it looked, and would love to move to a place like that you are describing once I finish working, so I'm definitely in.

Out of curiousity, I Googled real estate in the Berkshires, and here's the kind of building that might be the basis, depending on how many people are allowed to live in places, permitting/usage, etc. The main building couldn't be modified, but the plot size seems big enough to construct other small cottages, as well as the rooms in the main buliding? There is a renovated carriage house and a creamery -- and a pool for Stephen!

http://www.harschrealestate.com/realestate/detailview/49//189943

Or -- for much less, a 10 bedroom place with 20 acres, just off the Appalachian trail, with more room to add an old barn-style building for the main library.

http://www.harschrealestate.com/realestate/detailview/49//191113

>22 Chatterbox: Those are both very, very beautiful! I love the second one most, oh what a view, and from every part of the place!

There are some issues with older structures, most particularly in snow country. Maintenance is, of course, a big part of every building's life, but the longer the building's been there, the more things there are that are likely to wear out. Not saying it's impossible, but my own experiences with a 75-year-old house that's been in the family for 52 years and *obsessively* maintained tell me the issues for a 250-year-old structure can be counted on to cost a lot to address.

The central concept, of shares sold based on type of accommodation desired, is pretty much what in NYC is called a co-op. It's a very durable idea, and it works very well; add in the common point of interest, books and the life of the mind, and it sounds most doable.

Now, since there are those whose idea of Paradise is a hot, beachy place and those whose idea of Paradise is a cool, leafy place, and since we're in the dreaming stage, let's contemplate this: Shares are sold based on the buyer's primary residential desire: Berkshires for me or Suzanne, Virginia for Woofie and Kath, and Myrtle Beach for parties yet to speak, let's say; then, as there are even some of us who would like to go to Myrtle Beach from New Year's to Memorial Day, our shares would enable us to rent the single rooms there. It would mean a larger share price, and would be sort of a "golden ticket" a la Willy Wonka for single accommodation in any of our Tome Homes.

Woo Hoo, Suzanne! Either one is perfection. Closest airport?

ETA: I'm not sure of the shares idea. So in Mexico we call this a timeshare. Which is paying for a unit for a certain number of weeks, for a certain period of time. Yearly maintenance fees and taxes. It's all taken care of by a management company with an advisory board made up of the "owners" making it hassle free.

I'd like to check in for a couple of days, check out, done.

#20 Those are similar to things I have been thinking.. and I too like #2 :)

If we are voting, I am voting for number 2 as well (next time I have a spare chunk of change around I will buy it, lol.)

So, here's a thought as to structure. There is some kind initiation fee, that is flat across the board. (That would cover the downpayment on the property.) Then there is the purchase of the "share", which would depend on whether you plan to be residential or non-residential, and what kind of space you plan to occupy -- a room, a suite, or build your own cabin or.... Finally, there is the common usage fee. That would vary depending on whether you were in residence. Some of it would be mandatory -- maintenance of the buildings, improvements in facilities. Other parts of it would hinge on whether you were there or not -- utilities, snow removal, entertainment fees (i.e. bus to the bookstores!) If you're a residential user, you could "swap" weeks or months, like a time share person, at no cost. If non-residential, you'd have a primary place, and depending on availability, could opt to reside at the other Tome Home for a period, and just pay your usage fee to it instead. We could also invite guests for periods of a week. You could convert your non-residential ownership share to residential at any time (space permitting) for payment of an additional premium. We could keep some of the bedrooms in the main house for those guests (or guests of members) and convert others into two-room suites.

People could run their own businesses from the Tome Home. For instance, horse-riding lessons? If the business uses community resources (land, utilities, etc.), a portion of the revenue/profits would go to the community. If not, then not. But the community would need to have guidelines on the kind of business, to make sure it's in keeping with the bibliomaniac nature of the group.

Members who perform important services for the community -- treasurer, librarian (I think we'd need one!), handyperson, cook (if desired), get a discount on the annual/monthly common fee.

Think of this as a kind of writer's colony, but for readers? Here are some links:
http://www.writerscolony.org/
http://www.hedgebrook.org/page.php?pageid=8&PHPSESSID=60b9a89298ff8ef75541d7... (I like the cottages pictured here)
or for a sense of what a writer's colony is (just substitute "reader" for "writer" in this): http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/resource/1361

On the logistical/planning side of this, there is an outfit called the Fellowship for Intentional Community. Links to their communities are here -- gives some ideas on the different ways they are constituted.
http://directory.ic.org/iclist/

Dream on!

(ETA: Though actually, I don't see why this has to be a dream. We could get non-profit status, I'm sure...)

What could *possibly* be less profitable than being a reader?!?

Well, being a non-profit means we could deduct contributions from taxes.

As long as there was some community benefit. Hmm, have to ponder that one.

The more I think about it, the more I think that rdears idea of a no longer used Marriott or some other hotel is an excellent one. Private space, public space..and all sorts of amenities. Have a single room, or remodel and have several.. to accommodate your wants and needs. Much of this already in place.

That and the non profit status things.. brilliant.

I admit to not thinking of this as a game or a dream, but as a real possibility.

#30: I admit to not thinking of this as a game or a dream, but as a real possibility.

Me too!

I'm not enamored of the idea of a used Marriott. I'd like to live in something that feels like a home. A hotel is designed to be a hotel, with lookalike rooms. It just doesn't feel like a community -- but then it's not designed to be one. And remodeling plus building cost would be infinitely more expensive than buying land & building from scratch, esp. since people want to buy these hotels for commercial purposes. The kinds of locations they are in are also not that pleasant -- either v. busy downtown cores (expensive!!!) or strip mall kinds of things. If we could find a country inn kind of place, with more individuality, I'd say yes, absolutely. But there's no way I would ever think about going to live in a former hotel, even in a dream! (Well, maybe if it was a 4 Seasons, someone else was paying the bills, and I was living in a suite with room service...) I'd just as soon stay in my individual apartment and pay visits.

Most of my concerns are about, well, too much togetherness in a small venue. Community, yes; roommatedom, not so much. Certainly it's a prerequisite that there be capacious common areas, and a maximum of privacy. I'd love to find an old resort, like those in Saratoga Springs, with a main building surrounded by smaller apartment-style rooms and bungalows. My mother's first husband had one of those types of places for snowbirds, located on Lyons Lake about 50ft from Mexico. The main building had two stories, several restaurants, a bar area, a smoking lounge, a club room with a billiards table and a dart board; then there were two eight-unit apartment blocks, each with sitting room, bedroom, and bath; then there were eleven two-bedroom bungalows with their own kitchenettes. The place was intended for full-time occupancy five months a year, so escape hatches were urgently needed.

Still lurking...not sure that I'm into that much permanent community...I like my aloneness, independence and NO GROUP RULES. Perhaps you could have guest room available to rent w/o having to buy a share? Of course then I wouldn't have my books and would have to depend on whatever was available for guests, or................maybe I could pay my rent in books?????

Well, gosh. Count me in!

Ways to gain nonprofit status: we could host a literacy program and either teach adults to read or help students with reading or both. Or we could provide short-term accommodations (a month? three months? six months max) in a couple of rooms or cabins to writers or other artists. Use part of our library as an art display space.

I recently read a short article about nontraditional retirement communities that worked along the lines we're thinking of. So yes--it definitely can be done and models exist.

Count me in on the Portland-area Tome Home. I'm heading for Oregon in a couple of months--will it be ready by then?

Believe me, I'm completely in agreement about not too much togetherness. We all have our different people-together tolerances, and mine is remarkably low. I like what many writers colonies do, having little cottages scattered around a main building that could serve as the library facility, "club room" stuff and big kitchen, or place to go when you wanted to hang with others.

With that 20-acre place in the Berkshires, I could see having the main (existing) building serving that central hub role, and then people that do the residence thing building their own cottages elsewhere on the grounds. I don't think having a mandatory 4-hour or whatever work contribution to the community would work, for much the same reason -- too many rules.

Guest rooms could be in the main (existing) building for those that just want to drop in and hang out.

The key would be to balance the economics so that it would work out financially (i.e. save us enough money to make the thing worthwhile, without risking it collapsing) and while maintaining the maximum flexibility for members. Group rules? There would probably have to be some, if only because otherwise everyone would get on each others' nerves. Can people play music loudly -- and what is loud? Let their cats/dogs run around freely? Swim nekkid? Have lots of guests? Everyone will have different views on stuff like that, and it affects others even if we're not sharing a building. (Think of how annoyed the people down the hall at a hotel can make you if they are running up and down the hall, or playing the TV too loudly in their room...)

Tome Home = Reader's Retreat?

I'm enjoying this conversation but was stopped in my tracks by the list price on that 11 bedroom colonial on 20 acres. That can't possibly be right can it?? They didn't leave off a 1 from the beginning of that figure??

Your model sounds alot like The Chautaugua Institute in Eastern NY, sans religious aspect.
Here are some links:
http://www.ciweb.org/
http://www.chautauquaguesthouse.com/
http://www.ciweb.org/clsc-book-club/

Uh that's actually western NY, right in my backyard not far from Lilydale:)

sounds like a good spot :)

#39 Duh, thanks Bonnie, that is what I meant to say - It is east of where I live. Have you ever been to the institute?

Hmm, just realized that Massachussets cld not remotely be defined as low-tax.

The Chesapeake area? Closer to major airports, also there is DC, Philly and NY. Anyone know about taxes there? Maybe somewhere near or even in Annapolis? I'm reluctant to go too far south, as high heat & humidity in the summers would make it unlivable for me.

I think Kath hit that one: Western Virginia/Southern West Virginia. No taxes to speak of, and the hills keep the place cooler than the coastal lowlands.

Rhode Island? Not a high-tax state, and the northwestern corner is the Berkshires...Wallum Lake? It's about 50ft from Massachusetts and it has a huge geriatric hospital already in it. Seriously. Zambrano Memorial Hospital. Used to be a TB hospital.

And it has the scrumptious advantage of being ~100mi from Boston and ~150mi from NYC! A HUGE reservoir/lake, with boating and a state forest with amnimalses and land's about $10K/acre undeveloped (a bargain in the Northeast).

What, pray tell, are amnimalses???

I do like the idea of Rhode Island. Every time I go to Boston by train, the area north of New London is just gorgeous. And to be near the ocean...

For all who like the idea of an older structure, and an elegant setting, for the Tome Home, follow this link to see a possible venue.

Since the Korean investors haven't done anything, perhaps the Adler and the Columbia would do?

Upstate NY = winters from hell, and very long ones at that. But y'all go ahead, I'll come visit in glorious October.

2 buildings? Practically half a town.. lol
I love the Adler..

Well, we're talking about this on other threads, so I thought I'd post here for the curious.

If we are thinking of this kind of place, we should consider the structure of the not-for-profit continuing care communities that have become popular with older people. They are designed to afford private space of various sizes, along with sections for assisted living and, if necessary, medical care. The advantage of this is that once you're in, you never have to leave the community.

Right now, they are designed for older people - but hey, that's what we were talking about. We could think about a reader's retreat, but we were all talking about the end-of-life issues we foresee for us childless folks. For that, you need the services that these continuing care communities provide.

They are structured, most of them, as described above, with an initial large fee and monthly maintenance charges. They generally provide one to three meals a day, but apartments have kitchens. Some of them have common gardens, etc.

A step away from that are these 55-and-over communities, which don't have the services mentioned, but do have things such as buses to shopping, first-line nursing, etc. Most of these are built around golf courses, but there's no reason not to change the balance. Aging in place is a little more difficult there, because they generally comprise single family houses or townhouses, and are in suburban areas where cars are still required to get around.

I am not trying to be discouraging. Not at all. It sounds like what I would like, at least part-time. There are many examples there, but we would need to focus on the services we would need as we age, as much as the proximity to cities while we can still enjoy them.

Think of this - there are many of these continuing care communties, and not all of them will continue in financial health. Some may be up for sale, overbuilt, mismanaged, etc. We should look around.

>48 ffortsa: Agreed.

As you say, Judy, it's an opportunity...and I think the 55-and-over communities are not the model one would want to follow, for the good and sufficient reason that the number of us in this generation who don't have kids is large, and the need for graduated stages of care will be acute in the not-too-distant future.

Adding in the readerly community aspect is simply marketing; people with similar interests tend to form more cohesive communities, so the marketing tool increases the chances of attracting as frictionless a group as one can ever hope to form.

Yes, indeed.

*Submits a job application to get hired at the Tome Home* Considering Richard won't let me live there. :(

We will need young folks to do the heavy lifting and errands, you know...

>53 mckait: As long as we get paid in room & board & books, I'm good with that. :)

54: *Nods* Yes, definitely. I've already decided if I'm being locked out then I'm sneaking in at night and sleeping in the library. >:)

Stephen must be hired as executive bookrunner. Run to B&N, run to Border's etc.

I can't believe this discussion continues.........but it's nice to dream. Please, no Hotel California venue's!

And onion chopper.... ?

Stephen must be hired as executive bookrunner. Run to B&N, run to Border's etc.

Bad idea. I might not come back for hours... :P

Kath: Do I get a gas mask?