War and Peace Group Read 2011 - Vol 3, Part I

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War and Peace Group Read 2011 - Vol 3, Part I

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1Deern
Editat: març 3, 2011, 2:42 am

New thread for Vol 3, Part I

Next thread: http://www.librarything.com/topic/111300

2Deern
març 9, 2011, 6:37 am

How can we return to such a factual description of historic events after the last volume? I needed to take a break for a few days before I could continue. Looks like now we get real WAR, it's coming to Russia and it will be interesting how it will affect the lives of our leisure people.

3Deern
març 14, 2011, 3:25 am

Okay, some first thoughts.
I liked the introductory part about the question why war happens. But the cut from the last volume was too harsh for my liking. It was like starting a completely different book and I had to adjust my expectations before I could continue. Nothing much has changed, has it? The leading parties insisting they don't want war while preparing for it.

Andrei has lost the illusions about strategy he had in his youth. Interesting analysis of the different groups. I know we should not think in cultural stereotypes, but in the last few years when working with people from different countries I learned that many of them are indeed true, though not applicable to everyone. His description of Pfuel as typical German is quite close to the truth, especially when you think what the strong belief into some 'scientific theories' lead to in 1930s Germany. (Our belief in scientific principles was also the main reason our defence minister didn't politically survive the recent plagiarism scandal).

Nikolai is now known as an especially brave soldier, but has first doubts. I like this character development.

I just started the next chapter about Natascha's illness. I am really wondering why so many female characters fell seriously ill with 'nervous fever' for various reasons in classic novels. Is this just a literary means to open the way for some new development, or was this really a typical medical condition?

4Deern
març 15, 2011, 5:30 am

We first get the 'big picture' and then Tolstoi shows us how the developments affect our now well-known characters. I fear this was the last part with an intact everyday life for those not directly involved in the war like Andrei/Nikolai.

I had to laugh about Pierre and 'the number of the beast'. Years ago when I was still in IT some of my more nerdy male colleagues created a new and quite nasty program and gave it a name that included '666' (they had been saving that name for several years I learned). When Pierre tried to construct his own name I thought he must now recognize how useless it is - you can always construct something in a way it fits. Or just use a different alphabet. But somehow he really seems to be influenced by it.

Do I really have to get used to the thought of Pierre and Natasha? I've grown to like him a bit, I just wish he'd lose this clumsiness. I'm glad she is finally over Anatole.

Petya is a second Nikolai, it seems. I hope he will not be an early victim of the upcoming war.

5jordanmatthews
Editat: abr. 1, 2011, 12:19 am

I like Andrei's development, with him hunting Kuragin and all. He knows Anatole is a scoundrel, so must forgive Natasha in some respects. However, to forgive her completely and return to her would have run against his character. I know if he had forgiven her and returned, I maybe wouldn't have the same respect as I do for him.

I'm not sure about Pierre and Natasha. I think I was happier with the Bolkonsky match. Pierre is overweight, clumsy and gets deceived. While Natasha is pretty, adroit and perspicacious; understanding the nuances of human relations and high society.

Petya getting involved with "adult" affairs and then subsequently getting crushed can only serve as an ill-omen to us surely? However, the Count signed him up for a "safe" position (if such a position exists with scale of the forthcoming conflict).

6Deern
abr. 1, 2011, 2:02 am

Yes, Andrei kind of forgave her from the beginning, but that doesn't imply he would take her back. And I don't think she would have expected that - it's broken, and both of them know it. When he kept the engagement a secret and gave her the option to back out during the year of his absence for whatever reason he must have known there was a (small) chance she would use that option. However I guess he expected she would then be happily married to another worthy man, and the fact that she was left by Anatole with her reputation destroyed triggered his wish for revenge.

Petya: in movies nowadays the safe positions are always the ones that get hit first. I hope Petya will make it through the war.

Pierre and Natasha: Pierre is liked by many people, but Natasha is among the few who respect him and don't just use him for their own purposes. And if I remember correctly she already liked him early on in the novel, even before he inherited his fortune. But I also prefer the match with Andrei, maybe because I myself would clearly prefer him over Pierre. :-)

7JanetinLondon
abr. 28, 2011, 4:44 pm

What an incredible 100 pages of writing this is. It's so different from everything that came before. Yes, the usual stories continue, but it's not about that. It’s all about anticipation – the war is coming, it will be terrible, but it’s not really there yet for most of the characters (nor for the reader – it’s 100 pages of anticipation for us, too – get on with the story!).

Everyone deals with it in his/her own way, although they don’t seem to talk about it much. Napoleon is antagonistic, Alexander slightly befuddled and disbelieving, the courtiers just ignoring it all (on the surface), all the officers returning to the army, everyone seeming to become more religious, more spiritual, more mystical, and possibly kinder to each other. Instinctively, all the noble families have stayed in Moscow rather than dispersing to the country as usual for the summer (hmm, except Helene – where is she?) Not much talk of balls, dinners, operas, etc., in this section. Everything is much more solemn. People stop speaking French and start addressing each other by their Russian names. Meanwhile, life does go on – Natasha gradually recovers and decides she will be a “better person”, for example, and there are some minor skirmishes on the outskirts.

There are some lovely little scenes and set pieces
– Rostov’s regiment leaving for the battle just before dawn – the description of the wet countryside along the way, the day as it gets hotter and fuller, and suddenly is all disrupted by a battle.
- Rostov’s heroism – a spur of the moment decision to counterattack, which turns out to be exactly the right thing to do
- Natasha fervently listening to the new prayer to God to save Russia
- Petya going to the Kremlin to see the Tsar and almost getting crushed
- Balashev’s meetings with Napoleon

Throughout, the Russian nobility is its usual stupid, ignorant and divided self, having no clue what to do. But above all, the inevitability of fate. Finally, the waiting is over. The nobility are pressed to supply troops, the merchants to yield up their wealth, and disaster looms. There is almost a palpable sigh of relief.

8cushlareads
maig 9, 2011, 12:14 am

I finished this section yesterday and am loving having your comments to read once I'm done. This section and the last one have flown for me - here's hoping I keep it up! I am really loving it now - the first book that's taken me 500 pages to get into.

Nathalie, I had the same reaction as yours when I read Tolstoy's national stereotypes to the German one. I couldn't help thinking forward 120 years.

We're slowly getting a much more detailed picture of Russian life and parts of Moscow and the countryside now - I loved the scene where Petya tried to get to the sovereign's gentleman-in-waiting, although I think he might not be long for this world...

And I'm off to google what a beadle is.