Reading Group #12 (M. R. James' Birthday: 'The Mezzotint,' 'Casting the Runes,' 'Rats')

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Reading Group #12 (M. R. James' Birthday: 'The Mezzotint,' 'Casting the Runes,' 'Rats')

Aquest tema està marcat com "inactiu"—L'últim missatge és de fa més de 90 dies. Podeu revifar-lo enviant una resposta.

1veilofisis
Editat: jul. 28, 2011, 4:20am

Alright, here we are. Again, nobody feel as if he or she has to read all three of these, but if you're able to, it'll make for some fun compare and contrast, which would be a great conversation considering how similar all of James' stories are. Sounds particularly up Paul's alley, incidentally. :D

I'll be starting with 'The Mezzotint' and rereading these (I've enjoyed them all at least one or two times before) in the order I listed them in the subject line. Feel free to switch it up, though.

2pgmcc
jul. 28, 2011, 5:38am

I'm looking forward to reading these over the weekend. When I first read James' stories it had been my intention to write up notes on each story. Of course, the best laid plans... This now gives me the opportunity to recapture the thoughts I had on them.

By the way, I was made aware of M. R. James' 149th birthday by a notification on Facebook by the Nunkie Theatre company. It is a company, primarily one man, Robert Lloyd Parry, who performs M. R. James stories. I say, "performs", but basically he tells the stories in the persona of M. R. James, as if the audience were attendees at one of James' story telling sessions in his study.

I was introduced to this theatre company about three years ago when a friend brought me to a performance of two ghost stories, "Canon Alberic's Scrap-book" and "A Pleasing Terror". The venue was an old court house in a small village in the Wicklow mountains. We had to leave the main roads and traverse about ten miles of country road to get to the village. The night was cloudless, there was a full moon, and the valleys were filling up with ground hugging mist. Church spires poked out of sheets of fog in a couple of the villages we passed. It was a night made for ghost stories.

Boo!

3alaudacorax
jul. 28, 2011, 6:01am

Biscuits!

This gets me back to what I said here - http://www.librarything.com/talktopic.php?topic=120766#2834970 - and here - http://www.librarything.com/topic/119177#2835012 .

As I wrote there, over time I found 'Canon Alberic' sort of sneaking up on me despite my initial strictures on it. So I read a few more of James's stories on Gutenberg; then decided I was going to buy a good collected edition; so then, because of that, decided not to read any more online. But it's like with those tins of biscuits - you've got to have 'just one more' - and before you know it the tin is empty! I exercised a bit of will power to stop reading them, but it's going to start all over again now!

(Rises to feet, shuffles a bit, clears throat nervously) "My name is rankamateur and I'm an M. R. James-oholic".

4pgmcc
jul. 28, 2011, 6:13am

We hear you rankamateur. We're here for you.

One day at a time! One day at a time!

5alaudacorax
jul. 28, 2011, 6:34am

Thanks, pgmcc.

#2 - I'd have loved to have seen that. I see from his website there's a DVD, so I may see it yet.

Looking at the photos, Parry does look a lot like James. The trouble with that is, to me, James doesn't look a lot like James - not my idea of him, anyway. For some reason, I've got a picture of the late Cyril Cusack in my mind (I've a vague memory of him reading ghost stories, but whether James or no ...)

6pgmcc
jul. 28, 2011, 6:58am

#5 I loved Cyril Cusack's performances. One of my favourites is his speech on the evils of books in the movie adaptation of Fahrenheit 451.

In relation to James and Parry, I have a copy of his first DVD, but I haven't watched it yet.

I just noticed that his next scheduled performances are here in Dublin in October, in The Loft Bookshop, Ireland's most recently opened indepenent bookshop, and only a couple of hundred yards from my place of work. (It was opened a few months ago by a friend of mine.)

7pgmcc
Editat: ag. 1, 2011, 9:29am

Happy Birthday Mr. M. R. James.

Here are my comments on "Rats".

Rats
By M.R. James
The opening of this story, when the heaving of the bedclothes with rats is being described, reminds me of the time I came across the body of a dead sheep. Its wool-clad flanks were undulating and shifting as I looked on. It was not rats under the skin, but a mass of maggots devouring the carcass from within.
James’s protagonist in Rats strikes me as a very diligent student. He rents rooms for a month in the country and spends the majority of his time reading, writing and walking in the countryside. I suspect students of today would not be just quite as diligent; and perhaps students of James’s time were not-so either. James was a Cambridge Don, and as such I’m sure he wished to encourage students to be diligent and studious. Perhaps his character is an idealised student in the mind of James, or James is trying to promote good-studentship, or perhaps James had a sense of humour and he is being sarcastic.
In terms of the core story, I like how local culture and lore is being glimpsed by an “outsider”. The story of the gallows is obviously well known to the locals, and the existence of the “ghost” is known to the inn keepers, who, it appears, took on the business with full knowledge; a demonstration of how naturally such things were accepted by the local community.
Acute commercial awareness was demonstrated by the inn keepers when they expressed concern that the story of the ghost would get out and impact on the reputation of their establishment.
Why was the ghost of the executed inn keeper in that room? Had it been his room in life? Had he been chained and held in that room while awaiting execution? What had gone through his mind as he waited in that room for his execution with the gallows in full view?
Also, what happened at the inn after our student returned to Cambridge? Did the ghost become more active now that his rest had been disturbed?
Apart from the supernatural attributes of the story, I think James created a good metaphor for local community life where there are hidden horrors just below the surface. I am even inclined to draw a comparison with the child abuse scandals uncovered in Ireland where the Catholic Church was covering up misdeeds by its clergy and the public at large was in denial that such things could possibly happen.
With travel taking more effort in James’s times than nowadays, placing his story in the English countryside provides sufficient remoteness to create a cultural dichotomy between the local community and that of the student. Also, his descriptions of the environs are sufficient to create the feeling of remoteness.
Having spent five months mapping the geology of North West Inishowen I can relate to the student’s wanderings in areas not often visited by human beings. Standing atop a granite peak, surveying the surrounding bog-land and lough views is wonderful, but on more than one occasion it has given rise to eeriness and a sense of not being alone.
As you can see, Rats evoked a lot for me.

8veilofisis
ag. 1, 2011, 10:23am

Great thoughts, pgmcc! And a happy birthday to Montague!

'Rats' is probably my favorite James yarn: creepy, a little off-kilter, and really ambiguous. That part about the thing's feet, phrased as a question---eep! The last time I reread this was in May, but I gave it another read anyway. Glad I did. Great stuff! Maybe one of my favorite short stories ever, actually. Strange to call it that, but I don't know...it really creeps me out. And that's fabulous.

I reread 'The Mezzotint' yesterday morning. Another great one. For all James' antiquarian trappings, his stories are uniquely creepy. Their archaicness gives them an almost court-room transcript quality that really works for me. His ghosts are almost demonic, too, and much eerier than the spooks of lesser pens. Hairy, wet, toothy---James knows how to write a ghost.

I'll get to 'Casting the Runes' tomorrow (or today, rather). I remember reading it very late at night about a year ago and finding it wonderfully uncomfortable. I should brush up on my Crowley a bit first, though, for the full effect...

Sorry if this post seems a little weirdly written, I'm a little tipsy. It's almost 7:30 am here in California, and I haven't even gotten to bed yet. Oy...

9pgmcc
ag. 1, 2011, 10:31am

#8 Your post seems particularly lucid for you're being a little tipsy and not having gotten to bed by 7:30am. I suppose you were up all night helping the politicians reach an agreement on the debt ceiling. Talk about scary stuff! :-)

Thoughts on "The Mezzontint" later today, hopefully.

Now, you have a little lie down and everything will be alright when you wake up! Don't be thinking about those terrible rats, and ghosts, and demons, and ghouls,...

10alaudacorax
ag. 1, 2011, 3:31pm

#8 - Wow - an all-nighter. That takes me back many decades. It would probably kill me now, but I'm glad to see old traditions being kept up. I'm reminded of being in an Open University summer school about ten years back. My generation and round about, who were teenagers in the sixties, were burning the candle at both ends, up till the early hours every night talking and boozing; but this in contrast to many of the younger generation who were quite earnest and conscientious and getting off to bed at a reasonable time every night (or trying to, given the row us lot were kicking up). Good fun.

Anyway, where was I?

Oh yes, #7 - Also, what happened at the inn after our student returned to Cambridge? Did the ghost become more active now that his rest had been disturbed?

Did anyone notice the ambiguity of the last sentence of the third paragraph, "A sign on a post stands before the door; or did so stand, for though it was an inn of repute once, I believe it is so no longer."? Is it no longer an inn - or is it no longer an inn of repute? Either way, there seems at least a suggestion that Thomson stirred up just what the host and hostess feared he had.

I'm not sure if I think the business with the rats is a bit of a cheat. It's irrelevant to the story, but it sort of 'primes' you for it by putting that really rather horrifying image in your mind.

11alaudacorax
ag. 1, 2011, 3:40pm

One thing I do have to say with 'Rats': I find that 'bluish check counterpane' a bit of a stumbling block.

12pgmcc
ag. 1, 2011, 5:10pm

#10 I take your point about the rats. It is really a draw-in, and a primer for scary stuff to come.

Also, your interpretation of the sign, the one about it no longer being an inn of repute, looks right to me.

Now for The Mezzotint.

13pgmcc
ag. 1, 2011, 5:29pm

The Mezzotint
By M. R. James

My thoughts.
One of the things I enjoy about James’s tales is how he gives the reader, or listener, a glimpse into the everyday matters of life in his world. As a Cambridge Don with “rooms” on campus, he would have been in the same position as “Williams”, his main character in “The Mezzotint”. The rigidity of “Halls” at seven, the privilege of a servant calling round on Sunday to see if there was anything Sir required, and the structure of socialising in an Uxbridge college can, I would like to think, be taken as accurate reflections of the reality.

Another element of his stories is the insertion of what I can only describe as his sense of humour. I believe he used his stories to poke fun at, if not specific individuals who would be known to the members of his audience at his Christmas readings, then “types” of people they would know. His descriptions of conversations about golf and other sports indicate that he was not enamoured with golf in particular and conversations that focused on sporting events in general. The Mezzotint contains a particularly amusing description of golf conversations. I can relate to these sentiments.

I thought it funny that the gentlemen concerned in the events of the story, when they started noticing the changes in the picture, accepted that the changes were happening. What was particularly interesting was that they were still seeking solutions that were not supernatural, e.g. the use of sympathetic ink.

In the explanation of the events that unfolded in the picture we again get a glimpse of society of earlier times; I refer to the ability of the land owner, with the support of the authorities, to ensure that people he did not want around were moved on.

I could not see the purpose of the character, “Dennistoun”, as he is replaced as the main character almost as soon as he is introduced. Perhaps James believed he had to distance himself from knowing Williams, a person in charge of a museum at a college other than his own.

I quite like this story. After reading it this morning I went for a walk along the River Liffey to the village of Leixlip. There I found a house on the main street with three floors, each having a row of five sash windows with the exception of the ground floor where the front door was in the stead of a window. The only thing missing was the small portico.

14alaudacorax
ag. 2, 2011, 5:23am

#7 - Sticking with 'Rats' for the moment, I've found your comments on the 'hidden horrors' under the surface of local life quite thought-provoking. It's a quite familiar line of thought now, but was it when James was writing? Was he conscious of such things when writing? Of course, he would have known all about the old 'pastoral idyll' stereotype and stories like this obviously to some extent play on that and subvert it, but your idea would add another layer of subversion and add to the creepiness.

This is another example of the more I read, the more reading I'd like to do - I'd really like to find out more about James's whole cultural and intellectual background (and Bierce's, and Blackwood's, and Poe's, and ...)

15pgmcc
ag. 2, 2011, 6:25am

#14 It's a quite familiar line of thought now, but was it when James was writing? Was he conscious of such things when writing?

At the risk of reducing the creepiness of the story I am inclined to believe James was more interested in writing a story that would entertain and spook his readers/listeners than in exposing the hidden scandals of local communities. I could be wrong, but don't really think I am on this occasion; unless you know better.

I am in the same boat as you with regards to, the more I read, the more reading I'd like to do I would also use this same concept in relatin to the more I use LT the more I want to...

16alaudacorax
ag. 2, 2011, 10:41am

#15 - On the LT thing - yes, quite.

I quite take your point about James writing to spook and entertain. Though it's interesting to speculate how writers' works might be coloured by their times and background culture, I suspect that really getting into it would demand rather too much time and effort and run a big risk of not proving very enlightening at the end of it. I'm always haring off on some tangent and spending hours rooting through the books to the detriment of other things I'd intended doing.

17alaudacorax
Editat: ag. 2, 2011, 10:46am

#16 - For some reason, LT is not letting me edit that post - I wanted to put a 'simply' in front of the 'to spook and entertain'.

ETA - ... and yet it's letting me edit this one ...

... and the one last but one ... weird.

18pgmcc
ag. 2, 2011, 11:28am

#17 ... and yet it's letting me edit this one ...

... and the one last but one ... weird.


Spooky, I call it!

#16 it's interesting to speculate how writers' works might be coloured by their times and background culture,

I agree wholeheartedly, and with your subsequent suspicion.

My wife has been interested in the novels of George A Birmingham for some time. He was a Church of Ireland minister, real name Rev. James Owen Hannay, who wrote novels from 1905 to 1950; in fact he wrote sixty-four novels in that time.

Her interest is based on the fact that his novels incorporated the on-going social and political activities of the time in Ireland, a period that included much disturbance including a war of independence and a civil war, not to mention the backdrop of WWI and WWII. His portrayal of the political situation was always very balanced.

I suggested she do a PhD on the topic. It would be fascinating, but as you say, would demand rather too much time and effort and run a big risk of not proving very enlightening at the end of it.

Hmm! 56 novels published in 45 years, not to mention his religious publications. He must have had a lot of time on his hands.

Interesting fact, for a period of time he was the Dean of St. Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin, the same position held by Johnathan Swift. (Well, I thought it interesting.)

19veilofisis
ag. 4, 2011, 4:06am

Reread 'Casting the Runes.' What a fabulous little story. It's better than I remember it being, even, and probably one of his absolute best. Has anybody else gotten to this one?

20alaudacorax
ag. 4, 2011, 8:07am

I'm just reading 'Casting the Runes'.

M. R. James can be really irritating at times. I'm beginning to wonder if he ever revised anything before publication. When the tension and menace is building nicely, why the devil does he sabotage his story by referring to Dunning in the present tense - as in, "The night he passed is not one on which he looks back with any satisfaction"? Infuriating!

What's the point of avoiding spoilers in these threads if the xxxxxx author is going to stick in his own?

21brother_salvatore
ag. 4, 2011, 8:16am

I've got through Rats. A creepy little story for sure, but I doubt I have much to add to the conversation at this point. Hoping to read Casting and Mezz by the end of the week.

Veil and others, what in your opinion is M.R.'s best story?

22veilofisis
ag. 4, 2011, 9:06am

>20 alaudacorax:

I agree!

>21 brother_salvatore:

Hmn. 'Rats' is probably my favorite, but I have no way of justifying that. In fact, I don't even think it's his best--at least, not in the sense I'd usually mean that. But now I've confused myself, and this paragraph is making less and less sense, so...

Alright, new paragraph. :) I think his 'best' story, in terms of creepiness, writing, and general James-ness is either 'Casting the Runes' or 'The Mezzotint.' But then...'The Tractate Middoth,' 'Canon Alberic's Scrapbook,' and 'The Treasure of Abbot Thomas' (especially that last) are all contenders, too. His stories are too similar for me to arrange from best to worst, and yet in being so similar you'd think that this would be a lot easier (or less subjective, at least). But I seem to be confusing myself again. What the hell?

Oy: so, to end this post, haha, I'd go on record as saying 'Casting the Runes' or 'The Treasure of Abbot Thomas.' Even though I said 'The Mezzotint' up there.

Hope this, uh...answers your question, Friar. :D

23pgmcc
ag. 4, 2011, 9:15am

#21
Like Veilofisis, I would find it hard to pick a favourite.

I find it easier to give my least favourite. I know I'm likely to attract ridicule and derogatory remarks, but the story that did least for me was "Oh, Whistle and I'll Come to You, My Lad".

I enjoyed all the rest but felt this one left me feeling, "so what?" There was just something missing.

24veilofisis
ag. 4, 2011, 10:17am

Actually, pgmcc, I totally agree. It really does...nothing for me, that story.

25alaudacorax
ag. 4, 2011, 10:22am

Does a Gothic tale really have to be scary, creepy, unsettling or whatever? This question has particularly been buzzing round the back of my mind since I first read 'The Mezzotint' a few weeks back.

I'll just add a warning here about forthcoming spoilers if you haven't read it yet.

I found 'The Mezzotint' a quite fascinating and satisfying read, yet almost totally devoid of tension and menace. We have the story that the mezzotint gradually tells, which could, no doubt, have been quite a hair-raiser - exept that we are quite effectively insulated from that story by the surface story of Williams and the mezzotint. It seems to me that James, instead of telling us a creepy story, is telling us a story about how Williams and his colleagues are told a creepy story.

On those terms it's a good story and entertained me and held my interest, but it is not a spine-tingler - but is that a fault? If the story 'entertained me and held my interest' it must work on its own terms - can those terms justifiably be criticised for not being some other terms?

I really haven't been able to work myself out an opinion on this - not to mention that somebody is probably going to write, "But it is scary!" and plunge me into self-doubt.

26alaudacorax
ag. 4, 2011, 10:34am

I'm developing a real fondness for M. R. James - but there's a sort of 'cosy' element in there.

If I was invited to one of his story-telling sessions, I'm suspect I'd come away with fond memories of a cosy evening. If I was invited to a session with Algernon Blackwood, I'd probably end up sleeping with the light on for a month.

27pgmcc
ag. 4, 2011, 10:47am

#25

I agree with what you're saying. He created an atmosphere in The Mezzotint without individuals being exposed to direct threat, although Williams was frightened enough to lock the picture in another room.

The explanation about the poacher, etc... gave material for people thinking up scary things.

There was no explanation of the white cross on the robe, unless that was a common feature of burial shrouds at the time, and supposed to give credance to the idea of revenge from the grave.

Oops! The wind just slammed the window behind me and gave me an awful fright. :-)

#26

I see what you mean. There is a book of ghost stories I read within the last two years and I described it as scary stories for a genteel audience. I can't remember exactly what it was. It may have been the ghost stories of Edith Nesbitt. I will investigate and get back to you.

28pgmcc
ag. 4, 2011, 10:47am

#24

We will face the onslaught together!

29veilofisis
Editat: ag. 4, 2011, 12:21pm

>25 alaudacorax:

Yes, I think there is a definite 'coziness' to James' storytelling that insulates us, sometimes, from real fear. But then, every once in a while, he utterly destroys the coziness and creeps me out on a Blackwood level. But this is rare. And I don't think the Gothic need be truly 'scary' per se, but I think it needs to have a certain preoccupation with notions of terror and 'otherness' to really be Gothic: and the more 'Romantic' (with a capital 'R') these preoccupations get, the more Udolpho they get; without the Romance you still create works like, say, Caleb Williams that are Gothic, in the sense of atmosphere, if not rooted in the spookiness of their peers.

And I DO find 'The Mezzotint' creepy. Not an all-out screamer, of course, but pleasantly eerie. Cozy, to use that word again. Oh, and I think your description of it being a 'story about a scary story' is really perfect, by the way.

> 28

Tell them to bring it on!! :D

30pgmcc
ag. 4, 2011, 12:26pm

#29 And I DO find 'The Mezzotint' creepy.

You're doing nothing for rankamateur's self doubt. ;-)

Tell them to bring it on!!

United we stand!

31alaudacorax
ag. 4, 2011, 1:05pm

#27 - I'd quite forgotten about the white cross. The first time I read it, I was wondering whether it was a sign of the Holy Inquisition, or is that merely a Hollywood invention or book-illustrators invention - I know I've seen it somewhere connected with the Inquisition? Quite irrelevant, of course, and by the time I'd got to the end of the story I'd forgotten all about it. I don't think I even registered it this time round.

By the way, I've seen a loosely-filmed version of 'Casting the Runes' called 'Night of the Demon', with Dana Andrews and the biggest demon you've ever seen chasing Karswell down the railway line at the end.

32veilofisis
ag. 6, 2011, 10:08pm

Hey all. Since we have another Gothic birthday coming up, I thought we'd try this 'compare and contrast' style of reading project again for H. P. Lovecraft's 121st. He's got August 20th, but we'll start a little early, as soon as everybody feels ready to move on from our James inundation. Consider yourselves warned, muahahaha. :)

33pgmcc
ag. 7, 2011, 7:49am

OMG! I've been warned! Aaargh! Shreeeeeeks and runs away in terror!

34alaudacorax
ag. 7, 2011, 7:56am

Hah! Ironic timing on Lovecraft: I'm in the process of returning Necronomicon: The Weird Tales of H. P. Lovecraft to Amazon.

It arrived atrociously packed with nothing to stop the book sliding out the bottom - which it obviously did at some point as there was a really nasty scrape on the front and the book looked anything but mint - really annoying. I mean, it's not as if it's that much of an inconvenience sending it back - printing out the bumf, a bit of packing tape and a half-hour's walk to the post office - it's an attractive book getting damaged that's so annoying - probably quite irrational of me; it's the thought that it has been packed by someone who really doesn't give a shit about books - cruelty to books is what it is! Which is probably even more irrational of me.

I've got some pics on photobucket - http://s1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd444/rankamateuronpb/Really%20annoying/ - if anyone's interested - three showing it exactly how the postie handed it to me and two struggling to show damage on a black cover.

And while I'm being annoyed, why can't online concerns like photobucket capitalize their names? It's probably e. e. cummings's fault, ultimately.

Okay - rant over - I'm feeling quite sunny again, having got that out of my system.

35veilofisis
ag. 7, 2011, 8:11am

>34 alaudacorax:

Ahhhh I'm in a never ending war of attrition with Amazon. I send something back, they charge me for it again; I ask for a replacement, I get a box full of six copies of the same book; a shipment never arrives, they expect me to send back the phantom books before they'll replace them. And yet everytime I seem to wind up with a coupon, or an extra book (or even two or three extra books). And so it's getting a bit ridiculous. But above all else, my biggest peeve is that they must not store their books well, because I constantly receive volumes with warped pages, which has a bit to do with humidity and temperature. I hate that. I've never kept a single one.

AH! Now that I've vented that...

36alaudacorax
ag. 7, 2011, 8:26am

#8 - veil, I completely forgot that I'd meant to ask about the significance of your reference to Crowley as I really know little about him (strangely enough, his face is familiar to me as his photos seem to turn up all over the place, and one regularly sees references to 'the great beast', of course - that is Crowley, isn't it?) and not much more about James. Is Karswell seen as a satire on Crowley?

37veilofisis
Editat: ag. 7, 2011, 8:36am

I think James was mostly borrowing Crowley's reputation as a model for Karswell's. I wouldn't call it satire so much as I'd call it an attempt at pastiching various aspects of a reader's assumption of what Crowley's mysticism entailed. Personally I find Crowley's world-view limiting, a little absurd, racist, and far-removed from the Golden Dawn style of hermetics that originally informed most of his views. As a writer of fiction, however, I think he's actually rather good. Karswell is an effective caricature, but obviously James wasn't writing anything meant to be taken too seriously or as a 'comment' on Crowley or his beliefs (at least, I don't think he was). And Karswell is also a pretty black-and-white character; James chooses to refrain from endowing him with any redeemable qualities, which is on par with popular opinions of Crowley in the time period in which 'Casting the Runes' was written.

38alaudacorax
ag. 7, 2011, 8:35am

#35 - Oo-er! This is my first 'return' and now you've got me worried.

It's a little simpler in that in this case the only option is for a refund, so I'm not going to have piles of books flying back and fore, at least.

39veilofisis
ag. 7, 2011, 8:37am

Also, I'm still waiting for that collection Eldritch Tales to be published. I think it's slated for early October. I'm most excited about checking out Lovecraft's sonnet cycle. THAT should be an experience, to be sure...

40veilofisis
Editat: ag. 7, 2011, 8:42am

Lastly, I recently rediscovered the first four 'canon' tales in Chambers' King in Yellow collection (the one that explores, through its first four vaguely inter-connected short stories, that poisonous, fictional play that brings ruin to anyone who reads it), and DEAR GOD what glorious stuff! The first, 'The Repairer of Reputations' has got to stand as, hands down, one of the most spectacularly weird things I've ever read. You should really check this one out, Paul. It seems right up your alley. The other five stories in the collection are not even supernatural in the dimmest sense, but those first four ('The Repairer of Reputations,' 'The Mask,' 'In the Court of the Dragon,' and 'The Yellow Sign') are just fabulous and genuinely warrant an entry in the top ten things I've ever read. Totally off-topic, I know, but I wanted to pass this on...

41alaudacorax
ag. 7, 2011, 8:48am

#37 - Ah, right. One thing I had in mind when wondering about the possible Crowley connection was that it's made clear that Karswell is a lousy writer - I was suspecting a little dig, there.

As a writer of fiction, however, I think he's actually rather good. - Always so much more to read! It's only recently, looking at some publisher's website (Folio Society?). that I realised that Crowley actually wrote fiction. In fact, I didn't really have much idea of what he did - just vaguely aware of a some sort of sinister reputation.

42alaudacorax
ag. 7, 2011, 11:50am

#40 - Chambers and I don't seem to have ever crossed paths - as far as I can remember, anyway. To repeat #41, always so much more to read!

43pgmcc
ag. 7, 2011, 12:48pm

#34 & 35

I see this thread is doubling as an Amazon Victims support group.

rankamateur, I can understand your frustration and ire. I know that volume (actually got a copy for my Son on Christmas) and it is lovely. I also know the packing of Amazon. The trouble started when they stopped using bubble wrap in their packaging. After that I didn't have a delivery from them without at least one damaged book.

That being the case I abandoned Amazon and started buying books from TheBookDepository.co.uk and was delighted with the results.

Of course, now I hear Amazon has just bought TheBookDepository.co.uk.

Worse than that, I recently recieved a delivery of books from TheBookDepository.co.uk and the books were delivered to my work place by a company called CityPost. They are a competitor of An Post, the Irish postal service. I work for An Post. In fact, I work in their HQ, the General Post Office (GPO). I don't need CityPost delivering to GPO. :-( That could be career determining.

44veilofisis
ag. 7, 2011, 12:57pm

>43 pgmcc:

It certainly IS becoming an Amazon Victims' Support Group! Hahahaha.

45veilofisis
ag. 7, 2011, 1:06pm

I've created a new thread. The three Lovecraft yarns we'll read for HIS birthday are 'Dagon,' 'The Rats in the Walls,' and my favorite Lovecraft story, 'The Haunter of the Dark.'

46alaudacorax
Editat: ag. 8, 2011, 11:23am

I've been re-reading these three this evening.

I hate to find myself at odds with veilofisis, but I find 'Rats' the least convincing of these stories.

The big problem is the first of Thomson's looks into the locked room - probably the key part of the story. It just doesn't work for me.

He looks into a well-lit room in the middle of a warm, sunny, spring day, sees someone in bed under the coverings, and immediately falls apart in terror. Why? Apparently because the person has their head under the blanket. Only dead people lie with their heads under the blankets. Nope - I don't buy it. I think he'd have been more likely to have fled in horror and embarrassment at the social gaffe he'd just committed. The 'blueish check counterpane' doesn't help. Had it been the middle of the night and the colour of the counterpane obscured by long years' worth of dust and cobwebs then he might have some justification, but as it is - I just don't believe in it. From then on the story is quite derailed for me. This bit destroys what receptivity I might have had for his second visit to the room.

I think 'Casting the Runes' works much better. Though I do think it's marred by James's 'spoilers' that I mentioned up in #20, and also by Dunning and Harrington's attempt, towards the end, to warn Karswell about what they'd done - it feels to me like a bit of an add-on and I suspect it's a reflection of James having some sort of last-minute scruples, but I don't really see why.

Those things aside, I found it quite a gripping page-turner - I think a thriller rather than a horror, despite the supernatural element.

Also, I can't help thinking that James intended a little wicked amusement in Karswell's magic lantern show for the kids who'd been annoying him - it wickedly amused me, anyway.

My favourite of the three, by a long way, is 'The Mezzotint'.

I do feel, though, a little that I'm loving it for the wrong reasons for a Gothic thread as one of its strengths for me is the sly, Saki-esque humour which runs all through it - his humorous asides on golf, for instance, and I especially loved the 'Sadducean Professor of Ophiology'. Actually, you could read that last as rather venomous humour and I wonder whether there's an in-joke there, a reference that would have been recognised by James's circle, perhaps to someone notoriously dismissive of ghost stories. My suspicion of this was strengthened by the reference to 'Bridgeford' people ('Bridgeford' presumably an equivalent of 'Oxbridge') which quite baffles me.

I think it's in a genre all of its own: a 'curiosity' rather than a thriller/horror with the interest lying rather in the inventiveness of the story than in creepiness and tension, and, of course, shot through with the slightly incongruous humour. Given all that, I think it's pretty much flawless.

ETA ... and talking about edgy humour and in-jokes, what about that business of naming the servant 'Filcher'?

47alaudacorax
ag. 8, 2011, 11:46am

#39 - Also, I'm still waiting for that collection Eldritch Tales to be published. I think it's slated for early October.

That's in stock with UK Amazon.

48naimahaviland
ag. 8, 2011, 8:16pm

Thanks for the thread, you guys. I never heard of MR James, but just happen to be in a library! Found it at the main branch. I'll letcha know what I think :)

49alaudacorax
ag. 8, 2011, 10:07pm

Hello Naima - welcome to the group - look forward to reading your thoughts.

50pgmcc
ag. 9, 2011, 4:03am

#48 Hi, Naima, nice to have you aboard. I hope you enjoy the discussion and, like rankamateur, I'm looking forward to reading the thoughts that you post.

51veilofisis
ag. 9, 2011, 5:45am

Yes, welcome Naima! :)

52pgmcc
oct. 2, 2011, 6:23pm

I'm not sure if it was here we mentioned "oh whistle and I'll come to you my lad", but it's late and I don't have the time to check; but I have to say:

While I have stated that in my opion "oh whistle and I'll come to you my lad" is probably the least appealing of M.R. James's stories, I must recant my words having just attended a performance of the story by Robert Lloyd Perry of Nunkie Productions. (It's a one man production company.)

He portrays M.R.James telling his stories in his rooms. It is a wonderful experience and he is such a great performer he brought M.R.James to life and also the characters and terrors in the stories he told. ("Oh whistle..." and "The Ash Tree".)

If you ever get a chance attend one of his performances. If not you can always get his DVD from his website.

53frahealee
set. 22, 2018, 6:12pm

Clearing the cobwebs off of this MRJ 'Runes' corner, so as not to forget to track down the film &/or read the story. Watching out for spoilers is the trickiest navigation of all.

Curse of the Demon / Night of the Demon 1957 ... based on Casting the Runes

54alaudacorax
set. 24, 2018, 9:00am

>53 frahealee: - The butler did it ...

55frahealee
Editat: set. 25, 2018, 6:00am

>54 alaudacorax: … in the dining room, with a candle stick! or Mrs. Peacock in the library with a knife? or Professor Plum in the kitchen with a lead pipe? =) So many endings, so little time. One plus two plus two plus one.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088930/

I wonder how many whodunnits or murder mysteries fit this farcical trope;
green, white, red, yellow, purple, blue / rope, revolver, knife, wrench, lead pipe, candlestick /
library, bedroom, ballroom, billiards room, conservatory, kitchen, dining room, lounge, cellar, attic, staircase in hall
host, maid, cook, butler, guard dogs, vast dark remote house, secret passage ways, cloudy night, muddled identities, unreliable narrators, captive strangers
(some say this boasts loving nods to Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None)
… sounds awfully gothic to me !

FYI: Clue the novel, based on Clue (1985) the film, was written by Michael McDowell, a writer previously mentioned in the Southern Gothic thread, having also written the screenplay for Beetlejuice, etc.

56frahealee
Editat: set. 25, 2018, 5:35pm

I've found an online audiobook of Mezzotint, and two online texts from the univ. of Adelaide (bless them for their archive), the site of which I find both readable and appealing. Unsure about their copyright statement in Canada but what they don't know won't hurt them. Will have all three covered shortly. Can't wait to read the above comments, but so far I like the description in >2 pgmcc: since we have a suitable rainy day here, warm and misty and the full moon was last night!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOMn3z0WD4 (Mezzotint)

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/j/james/mr/more/chapter4.html (Runes)

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/j/james/mr/collect/chapter2.html (Rats)

57frahealee
Editat: set. 26, 2018, 10:50pm

>2 pgmcc: Here is the reference to Nunkie Theatre Company, with all the detail I couldn't recall. Perfect. Planning to unearth a few more shorts this week, including the two you mention here, and a few from housefulofpaper's MRJ dvd mentions. Will dig up as many as I can find online.

I enjoyed all three of these; Rats, Runes, Mezzotint. Just watched Twixt (2011) and they lovingly poke fun at the fog image throughout (by evoking Brando). Film was better than expected, very funny in parts. A good follow up to these creepy ghost stories. The comments above cover all the territory, so nothing to add. My order of preference is Mezz/Runes/Rats. The latter ticked me off because he'd purposely duped me. Dislike that approach, even if he blames a kid's memory for the odd structure/detail of the story (unreliable narrator, bah). His style of writing will take some getting used to. Although smooth and articulate and funny in spots, it feels like a boys club mentality which I can take or leave. Perhaps after a dozen stories I'll be 'initiated' and might feel differently. What he assumes I know (about England or University life), I don't. If they all carry a similar style of ghost story-telling, then I might stop after a dozen. Edith Wharton might be more my style.

58frahealee
Editat: oct. 2, 2018, 11:56am

>57 frahealee:
This fellow is growing on me. Have spun through almost a dozen now, and my favourites so far are;

The Ash Tree (biggest shiver factor)
Number 13 (set in Denmark, different, off-kilter Faust-feel)
Canon Alberic's Scrapbook (fun for it to be in France, to get all the religious references)
The Haunted Dolls' House (family scoundrel gets his own back again)
Lost Hearts (great ending)

59pgmcc
oct. 2, 2018, 12:01pm

>58 frahealee: Have you tried any Robert Aickman?

60frahealee
Editat: oct. 2, 2018, 12:10pm

>59 pgmcc: Not yet, but his name has appeared more than once, so I'll look into it. I found his grandfather, Richard Marsh, with my discovery of The Beetle. It was in a collection I recently snagged online for my Kobo/ebooks so planning to read it within the month (with Dracula, etc.). Nice to see imagination runs in the family! Thank you for highlighting Robert Aickman since I might even read his non-fiction about the waterways!

61frahealee
oct. 6, 2018, 7:47am

>58 frahealee: Just read that M.R. James was renowned for moving the gothic story into more contemporary digs, which might explain why I'm lukewarm on his stories. Also, when he or Blackwood toss in the odd female character, it is almost shocking, which might be why I feel more observer than participant.

62alaudacorax
oct. 7, 2018, 4:56am

>61 frahealee:

It's a while since I read M. R. James - scrub that - I was going to say that I can't remember a female character at all, but there's one in Lost Hearts, I remember. Cambridge being what it was back in the day, I don't suppose the old boy knew much about them.

Algernon Blackwood, though, can be forgiven a lot, I think, for creating Auntie Julia in The Empty House. When I was reading him she took me quite by surprise, though, so I suppose there's an 'exceptions and rules' thing ...

63frahealee
gen. 14, 2019, 10:40am

>59 pgmcc:
>60 frahealee:

I've finished first time reads of Dracula, and now The Beetle, so consider Aickman next in line. See, you've created a monster/convert! I promise, in writing, by Easter at the very latest...

64pgmcc
gen. 14, 2019, 10:57am

?63

I hope you enjoy Aickman.

What did you think of The Beetle. I thought it was a hoot.

65frahealee
Editat: gen. 14, 2019, 12:01pm

>64 pgmcc: Absolutely, so much funnier than expected. The description of certain events was terrifying and creepy and ghastly images echoing long after, but it reminded me of a sleuth novel, like Holmes or Poirot, where the apparent line of truth was barred by some bizarre obstacle, or new supporting character, etc. I loved it! The ending was in a way, creepier than the story. Unsure how to avoid spoilers...

I loved your story about the Uncle Silas grab.

Do you have any clothbound hardcovers? I bought my first one (post-Cmas sale) and love the texture, and might look out for more like Vanity Fair and The Divine Comedy, etc. but wonder how they do with dust. Likely a magnet. Might have to find a glass case cabinet for them, since they're too pretty to bury.