Snags with Unattended Children

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Snags with Unattended Children

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1WeeTurtle
nov. 7, 2018, 5:51 am

Hey hey! Currently working on a bit of a research/policy assignment in my library tech studies. First step is some research into challenges that can come up with children in libraries without their parents. No age group is mentioned but I'll assume school age, elementary or primary school but not high school.

I've already picked through the "annoying patron things" thread (I'll get to the first one later. It's 2:30am) for some good thoughts. Research can be popular, professional, or academic, so I'm searching around places where I think I can get some experienced voices. I've never really had to deal with unattended kids in a professional setting so I'm sure there's stuff that just won't occur to me, and when I was a kid I was a "library helper" and quite proud of my ability to read DDC at age 9, so things like not checking a book out properly were an utterly alien concept! (Granted, the librarian never told me I was right that I recall. I just assumed such. ;) )

Of course, if anyone knows any good journals or publications to check out this stuff, I'll take that too! I can probably access most through my University's databases.

2RowanTribe
nov. 16, 2018, 5:03 pm

From a public library perspective only:

From what I remember from school, and from what the policy here states, I have found that most "unattended children" policies are less because the kids will be a "bother" and more because legally speaking, we aren't child-care providers, and because public libraries (as much as we like to pretend otherwise) aren't "safe spaces" for unattended children in the sense that we are in fact open to the general public, and we can't restrict the "general public" from open entry (or exit, in the case of kids wandering off). Unlike grade schools and most research libraries (located on college campuses and accessed by students) we are NOT acting "in loco parentis" so we HAVE to have the guardians there to watch them. If we find an unattended child and the guardian cannot be contacted and arrive within a reasonable time, then I have called the police and had the child(ren) taken to the police station so their guardian can explain to the police why they were not supervising their children.

So when we WANT to have kids only, without nosy/interfering adults involved :)

...we have to do creative things like have "children-only" spaces like Teen Rooms or Children's Activity Spaces where the guardians aren't allowed INSIDE those areas, but they still (depending on the age of the children) have to be physically present somewhere in the library, or have a proven contact method on file. Or we have "lock-in" events after hours or in restricted areas of the library to insure that the kids are all present and accounted for and can't just come and go at will.

3WeeTurtle
nov. 18, 2018, 12:10 am

That does seem to be the crux of the issue, in that to what extent is a Librarian obliged to ensure the safety of minors in the library if no guardian is present. Leaving through the threads on irritating patrons, kids on their own seemed to be less of an issue than kids with parents "in the vicinity" and parents not taking on their appropriate role, or taking it on too much.

Being used as a day care,
Mess/vandalism,
Noise,
Being where the aren't supposed to be,

seem to be among the kiddy issues that happen at libraries, but it's not always because the kid is by themselves. It almost seems like it's easier if there is no parent because there is a protocol. Would that seem accurate?

4Zoes_Human
nov. 18, 2018, 7:08 am

Unattended children who are in a park state-of-mind or playing with toys can present an issue with seniors who have balance and/or mobility issues. Kids running and not looking can run into people. Kids can carelessly leave a toy, especially a wheeled one, where it presents a falling hazard. For seniors with certain types of health issues, these falls can present a greater safety issue than for most adults. Though as you mention above, a parent can be right there and these things are happening.

5melannen
Editat: nov. 18, 2018, 3:08 pm

We tend to have four different kinds of "unattended children" problems at my suburban public library:

1. Kids who are technically old enough to be there on their own, but cause problems, usually as part of a rowdy group (this tends to be older preteens/ teenagers). We allow kids down to age 8 in the library unattended, but the younger end of the scale tend to be able to sit quietly and occupy themselves; teenagers start fights and behave in lewd ways and make messes.

2. Kids who are technically not unattended, but their parents are using the library computers and aren't actually paying attention to them: by far the problem that happens most often, up to and including toddlers running out into the street. These are usually the kids who are disruptive, damaging, or dangerous. (Extra special subset: the parents respond to complaint about the kids by either angrily cursing out/threatening violence to the staff. or to their own kids. We almost had to call the police on a mom the other day because we were afraid the daughter was in danger.)

3. Kids who are still there at closing and have nowhere to go. Usually these are in the tween/teen range, but we occasionally get younger kids who were so well-behaved all day that nobody realizes they're alone until it's 9 pm and they're the only person left in the building. By far the rarest, but the hardest to deal with (usually a staff member sits with them and brainstorms people to call and then waits until someone shows up; the few times we've had to default to the police, the police already know that family well).

4. Kids who come to the library specifically to get away from their adults, and don't tell them where they are, and don't want to go back with them, and hide when they show up. Also fairly rare, and usually fixed (at least, as far as library disruption goes) if somebody calls the police, but it's hard to guess which way this one will go, and it always makes everyone involved feel terrible.

Kids younger than 8 being dropped off alone is almost never a problem in terms of library disruption here; it happens sometimes (probably more than we realize!) but kids from those kinds of homes tend to know when and how to avoid adult attention, so they tend to not be the troublemakers , and usually if they're too young to understand that, there's an older sibling caretaker along.

6WeeTurtle
nov. 18, 2018, 5:22 pm

Thanks. The examples help a lot. I've been finding the articles tend to be fairly vague on the topic, and the ones that seem promising tend to lead to broken links.

Is it alright if I use this material in my essay? Generally paraphrasing I expect.

This stuff might wind up surprisingly relevant. I have my practicums next term, and one more elective, and by chance the only elective available is children's services. Not where I thought directions would go but I'm up for it.

7Dilara86
nov. 19, 2018, 4:22 am

I have a question re unattended children in libraries. Is allowing unsupervised children from the age of 8 and up (as in >5 melannen:) a widespread policy? I might be overprotective, but it seems a bit on the young side to me... Then again, my other half stayed in the library every day after school from the age of 5 (but that was in the seventies).

8WeeTurtle
nov. 19, 2018, 6:35 am

10 and 8 are the ages in the policies I'm looking over. I'm not a good judge of age from look or behavior so I couldn't say if that's on the young side or not.

9Dilara86
nov. 19, 2018, 8:02 am

10 seems reasonable to me!

10RowanTribe
nov. 19, 2018, 1:41 pm

Our age-limit is 13 here, and a previous system was 10.

However, I know for a solid fact that kids as young as 6 come regularly unattended (I watch them get off the school bus) but as long as they don't attract attention, it's a "don't-ask-don't-tell" sort of stand-off. Those kids don't tend to have families where calling the family or the police would help the situation, and as mentioned above, they DO NOT get in trouble because they need this place as a sanctuary. I see #3 and #4 from melannen's list much less in my current library, but it absolutely happens, and the "street-smarts" of those little kids is HEARTBREAKING.

The infuriating ones are where the parents are present, but totally checked-out, but get defensive and violent if you ask them to intervene, and god forbid you approach their children directly. I wish I could ban people for being awful parents, but that's counterproductive, sadly.

11Crypto-Willobie
Editat: nov. 20, 2018, 10:45 am

I like those signs that read
"Unsupervised children will be given an espresso and a free puppy".
But I guess those are more common in bookstores and toystores than in libraries...

122wonderY
nov. 19, 2018, 2:01 pm

I found that poor behavior was almost always tied to boredom or lack of direction.

Always, always have a list of tasks, work or fun, to offer.

One of the favorites was an action figure who performed acts of bravery and derring-do around the building. A camera and a loose-leaf binder were how those adventures were recorded. Young patrons who contributed to this kind of project gained a personal ownership to the library.

13Cynfelyn
nov. 19, 2018, 3:50 pm

>7 Dilara86: The UK Institute of Sport & Recreation Management national guidance is that children under the age of 8 years are not to be admitted to a swimming pool unless accompanied by a responsible adult. And that's the age limit enforced at my local swimming pool. Libraries have got to be intrinsically safer than swimming pools.

14lilithcat
nov. 19, 2018, 4:10 pm

>12 2wonderY:

One of the favorites was an action figure who performed acts of bravery and derring-do around the building. A camera and a loose-leaf binder were how those adventures were recorded

That is utterly brilliant.

15WeeTurtle
nov. 20, 2018, 12:32 am

>11 Crypto-Willobie:

I encountered an article that quoted that sign and the mentality behind it. Sadly, the link was broken. That has happened a curiously surprising amount when trying to look for data on this stuff.

In one brief article I found, a library commented about the need to point out that libraries aren't as safe as people assume, largely because they are a public space. Someone could walk out with a kid that's not theirs and the librarian wouldn't know any better (unless the kid is perhaps a regular), and not being a daycare, a kid that arrived alone could just as easily walk out the door if there isn't a dedicated supervisor.

16Crypto-Willobie
nov. 20, 2018, 10:47 am

>15 WeeTurtle:
Not sure what kind of 'mentality' you mean. Of course it's a joke not a policy, meant to get the attention of neglectful parents.

17melannen
Editat: nov. 20, 2018, 9:29 pm

>6 WeeTurtle: Sure! Please do.

>7 Dilara86: Our policy is technically over 8 by yourself, and over 12 to be babysitting someone younger than 8. It does seem very young to be alone, but at that age kids are allowed to, for example, walk home from school by themselves, and I think the idea is that the library is safer than wandering the streets (there really isn't any other option if they can't get home.) I think those are also the local laws about the age when kids can stay at home alone or babysit, which is probably where we got them from. 90% of the "unattended" 8-year-olds are running in to drop off a book while Mom's getting coffee at the 7-11 next door or something like that, but they are allowed.

There's also a lot of parents who use the library as sort of "training wheels" for independence - who would never send the kid into a store or leave them at a park alone, but let them go alone to pay a fine to the nice librarians or pick up a hold book or whatever because they know we're kid-friendly and we seem safe as a way to help the kids build confidence on their own- I feel like that's one of the services the library provides to parents.

We don't have any sort of legal responsibility of care like a school would, though; we make sure they have someplace to go at closing, but that's more because we couldn't live with ourselves otherwise than because we're required to.

>12 2wonderY: We have a "play area" with shareable toys, kids' computers with fun educational software preloaded, coloring sheets, an x-box, and a teen area with games and a "service craft" always available. That might cut down on behavior issues more than I realized.

Because yeah, behavior issues that disrupt the library are almost always either younger kids who are trying to interact with their adults and not getting the results they want, or teens who are trying to impress each other. Very rarely younger kids with each other or alone.

>15 WeeTurtle: Yep, in the library itself it's pretty safe - we do keep an eye on things, and have pretty good security camera coverage. But we don't make any attempt to keep people from leaving (unless they are toddlers walking into the street), or to control who kids leave with. (The inverse is that we won't tell any adults whether the kids were/are there, unless they have police with them, because we can't know if they're the right adults, which can make the runaways situations even more complicated.)

18WeeTurtle
nov. 21, 2018, 3:49 am

>16 Crypto-Willobie: I wasn't sure what the point was either, the link to the article was broken, but I think it was making a point that such signs wouldn't exist if there wasn't a existing problem that the sign is addressing. I like the sign, but I would be scared to put one up in the event an unattended child actually did ask about their free puppy. I'm not dealing with that! Espresso though, maybe.

It's kind of surprising how varied in detail library policies a can be. One I'm looking at was a couple pages long and went into what staff are expected to do in case of unattended children in various situations, as well as those with inattentive parents, adults asking about children in the building, etc. The other has only a paragraph listing and age and a "no unattended kids below x." Another library has a list of behaviors that "may" result in expulsion from the library rather than having a specific age, although leaving 'young children' unattended is one such behavior.

19mamzel
nov. 26, 2018, 4:09 pm

When my daughter's class was raising money for outdoor ed, I volunteered to supervise a car wash. The generous gas station was located on a very busy intersection. One mother came with her two daughters (one in the class, the other the 6-year old sister). Later I noticed the little one with her sister on the corner waving at cars. Mom was nowhere in sight. I happened to know from my friend that Mom pulled the same thing at her Girl Scout meetings. I pulled little sis over to where I was and told her not to move from the chair. When Mom came back she asked how much she owed for the car wash. In an rare flash of wit, I responded that she owed $10 for the car and $20 for the babysitting. (My friend was actually there with me. Luckily she was not in the middle of drinking something.) Mom flustered that she had left her little one in the care of the older one to which I replied that I doubted she would leave her daughters unattended at a gas station. She made out a check to me for the $20 which I turned in to the outdoor ed fund.

My point is that while it might feel good to be trusted with the care of someone's children, it can quickly change to feeling bad when the child is left with no instructions (emergency numbers, location of parent, allergies, etc.) or you have to stay past your scheduled hours when they don't return on time, etc. I am sure that is why so many libraries don't allow children under a certain age to be unattended. I don't blame them one bit. As I work in a high school library I never have to be concerned about this problem.

20WeeTurtle
nov. 26, 2018, 8:07 pm

Responsibility for an unattended child seems to be at the core of the issue, along with general safety. What can/should the public expect, versus what can the library reasonably provide? I'm looking at policies and they generally seem to say more or less the same stuff, but I notice differences in tone.

One library's policy was very formal and cited a piece of child care legislation as their base for the actions they take, like calling the police under certain circumstances. A city library had a very friendly sounding policy, and actually had a note that if a parent needed childcare, to speak to someone at the info desk for information, so I assume this is something that happens often enough at this particular library. (Doesn't surprise me one bit since I know the area and leaving a kid at the library while one does errands at the nearby stores and such seems like a great idea)

A big library downtown had a pretty nasty sounding policy, in the sense that it was all about things that would get someone's library privileges removed, leaving children unattended included. I would guess the library has had some bad experiences with such things in the past.

21DanieXJ
des. 4, 2018, 8:16 pm

>20 WeeTurtle: My guess is that the line about 'if you need childcare see the info desk' means that those at the Information desk will give the Mom/Dad/Guardian a list of childcare facilities. I sincerely and heartily doubt that it has anything to do with the library providing care. As >19 mamzel: said, that brings up a whole ton of problems.

i.e. the library says 'okay, we'll look after your child'. The librarian gets busy, the kid gets into peanut butter and has a horrible allergy to it. Is the library responsible? The library said they'd look after the kid, so, that would mean that the Guardian now has the right to sue the hell outta the library (and possibly the librarian too since lawyers tend to like to do that to force the town/city/library into paying) because they didn't pay enough attention to the kid. And, honestly, if we have to pay attention to only one kid/adult, all the other moms and dads who came with their kids and want help are going to be pissed as well (as they should be). We're here for everyone in the library, not just the kid whose mom is busy.

That's why the unattended child policy is so important. It means that if you leave your kid there, he or she is under the age, and something happens. It's not our fault. We can't be sued, the librarian can't be sued. It's on the parent/guardian to figure out how to care for their child, not us. I know that childcare in the US sucks, I feel for parents, but, the library is already being social services, health care help (as much as we can), people try to get us to do their taxes, I've basically gotten 6 or 7 people jobs (that one I'm on board for, those applications are practically another alien language). If we make the Children's librarians be caregivers as well....

I know my post sounds mean. But, honestly, I barely have enough time to help patrons and do all the other parts of my job (each which is somehow just as essential as every other part). And so I'm really thankful that my library has a straightforward unattended child policy.

Just one librarian's point of view.

And >19 mamzel:... *snort of laughter* You're in a High School Library, you have your own different raft of problems I would presume... *smirk*

22WeeTurtle
des. 6, 2018, 4:37 am

>21 DanieXJ: I'm aware of the problem with care actually happening at the library, I was more pointing out the difference in tone. One policy implies that the staff will help with the child care issue (even if that "help" is just a list of numbers) and another was pretty much a flat "No. Good day." I could understand the motivations behind that and I can easily see how a library's policy might try to be accommodating and helpful at first until things go sour a couple too many times and then no more, it's not worth it.