Leftists are not afriad of monsters. But as there are few leftists around, let's focus on liberals.

ConversesPro and Con

Afegeix-te a LibraryThing per participar.

Leftists are not afriad of monsters. But as there are few leftists around, let's focus on liberals.

jul. 11, 2019, 7:00pm

As the couple of threads that tend to go on and on about liberals rarely mention leftists, much less ideas, I thought this might be a more accurate thread title.

Editat: jul. 14, 2019, 1:44am

>1 RickHarsch: as there are few leftists around

Well, I'm not afraid to acknowledge myself to be broadly leftist, left of centre politically, albeit with the proviso that all labels are inadequate as most of us have a spectrum of views on different issues which do not fall neatly into one political category, and perhaps the added proviso that in practice I favour a form of mixed economy such as UK and much of northern Europe practiced in my younger days before the current rightward swing. But maybe I'm part of the "few"? Incidentally, being part of the "few" is highly regarded in British mythology, praised by Henry V at Agincourt and Winston Churchill at the Battle of Britain!

For me the key ideal is the "common good", which is a foundation of Catholic Social Thought, on which many of my values are based. It seems to me that much of right wing philosophy is based on the perceived good of the ruling class, the rich, the capitalists, the dominant identity groups. If there is any nod to the common good it is the (discredited) "trickle down theory", which pretends that making the rich richer and/or protecting their interests will benefit the poor and middle classes. Noblesse oblige, "nobility obligates", was the unwritten obligation of people from the upper classes to act honorably and generously to their inferiors. Whereas left wing philosophy (at its best, and I'll be the first to acknowledge that it often doesn't live up to it) is based on the good of all, including people who are not part of the dominant group, or of "my group", and particularly caring about institutional and systemic inequalities which reduce the opportunities of the poor, disadvantaged, marginalised and oppressed. For me there is no question as to which of these two philosophies to follow.

jul. 14, 2019, 5:20pm

Can you repeat that, Limelite?

jul. 14, 2019, 8:42pm

StormRaven insists on continuing to respond in that inanely titled thread by, I think accidentally, doubting you (I think he meant to doubt the other interlocutor.

jul. 14, 2019, 9:56pm

There is really no settled definition or at least not in the United States--for me it's a way of putting at least a little distance between myself and someone who might call himself a democrat or a liberal. The thing for me is you can't really be a leftist and be taking money from a Wall St. banker or not respond at all to those who do. It's just never okay...and one can't blindly rubber stamp hawkish American foreign policy endeavors either. One of the other things is that all are equal and it doesn't matter gender, race, sexual persuasion, language we speak, where we were born--we're all breathing the same air, living on the same planet and should have a share of the wealth of this earth. Somehow it doesn't work out that way though because people are always exploiting others and especially in this so-called land of the free with the highest incarceration rate of any nation on earth. Maybe what it is is just a lack of political pragmatism on my part though--I don't know. I'm not perfect but I think if you want to be a politico and represent people in congress or the Senate or as POTUS you have to have some kind of fucking standards.

Anyway Ocasio-Cortez and Omar I would consider as left politicians and not too many others. In Europe or elsewhere maybe they would be moderates more than leftists. We're a right wing country though.

jul. 15, 2019, 1:55pm

this thread, also, and first, known as

"Lefties are so cute, how they think the monsters they create won't eat them."

Now tendentiously re-titled as seen the top of the page.

jul. 15, 2019, 2:51pm

>6 proximity1:
tendentious, meaning, roughly, biased...

Leftists are not afriad of monsters--misspelled afraid. Sorry. There are few leftists around, so let's focus on liberals. Is that biased?

Editat: jul. 15, 2019, 2:55pm

Interestingly, proximity did not openly object to this thread, based on his geographical confusion: https://www.librarything.com/topic/308785

(I still laugh when I think of his lake in Russia and his link to the Aral Sea...)

Editat: jul. 16, 2019, 11:38pm

>3 RickHarsch:

Not sure what you want me to repeat, but as long as it doesn't require me to mention God/Jesus as a ruler of my conscience or a scapegoat for my behavior, I'll try. What did you have in mind?

Before the Nation voted the second most qualified candidate for president into office in 2008 (Hillary being the most qualified of all candidates), I called myself the Last Living Liberal. Since Obama's presidency, I was relieved to discover that we are not an extinct political orientation.

I am also a leftist to anything compared to Republicans and Independents since each Republican president and elected official since Eisenhower has endeavored and many times succeeded in moving the country to the right until now only outright fascism is to the right of where we find ourselves. With Trump, the journey rightward is being completed.

So, anyone not a Trumpster is, logically, a "leftist." I am, however, right-handed.

Editat: jul. 16, 2019, 3:01pm

>8 RickHarsch: Perhaps he should try his luck at locating Kitezh.

jul. 16, 2019, 5:02pm

>9 Limelite: just trying to get the threat back to a sane title

Editat: jul. 21, 2019, 3:11pm

> 9 ".....Before the Nation voted the second most qualified candidate for president into office in 2008 (Hillary being the most qualified of all candidates)..."

Best laugh I have had all day.

Thanks, Limey.

jul. 22, 2019, 7:53am

This might be of interest not only to "leftists" and "liberals" but to moderates and centrists of all persuasions:

What type of fascism is driving the far right today? (Al Jazeera)

Fascism today aims to transform democratic systems from within, rendering it more dangerous than its past incarnations

jul. 23, 2019, 5:58pm

>12 JGL53:

It took almost everything I had to write that satire about "second most qualified." In re Hillary Clinton's qualifications, I am sincere. She is the best qualified candidate to run in my voting lifetime, including Barack Obama.

I am an opponent to the movement that has taken over Republicans and conservatives to elect the dumbest amongst us, which they invariably do. Perhaps in an effort to feel like they can have a beer with the president? Now there's a quality for that office. SNARK! No thanks, I don't want a beer with my president. I want the smartest, most intellectual, thoughtful, and experienced person in the room to be prez. Whatever the room and whoever's in it.

Repubs, Evangelicals, and misogynists gave us orange floor scrapings in 2016, with the organized assistance of their Russian puppetmasters. Nothing beneath contempt is beneath a Trumpist, reference Trump.

Editat: juny 30, 2020, 12:08pm

Post #15 in
(Carnophile's) "Lefties are so cute, how they think the monsters they create won’t eat them" -- Part II

... “I am going to beat Joe Biden!” ...

--Joe Biden, on the presidential election campaign-trail.


I've only just become aware of this. Of course, one is unlikely to have read it from the posts of Biden's Zombie-force of defenders here, but still: "Really?"

Biden's defenders here are something straight out of H.C. Andersen's tale, "The Emperor's New Clothes."

This is genuinely scary stuff. Do you people have so little concern for the security and effectiveness of the nation's Executive branch? I don't see this strategy of hiding Biden from the voting public's view until election-day working through to polling day. The U.S. aren't North Korea--not yet.

And you've had the amazing nerve to run "Donald Trump: mentally, physically, temperamentally compromised " into 7 extensions!

Wow. Well, of course you just really have no shame. Fucking hell!

Can anyone point to even one so unsettling comparable & un-distorted example from Trump with regard to his soundness of mind?


The Strategies of Dementia Politics |By Victor Davis Hanson | June 30, 2020 6:30 AM

... "It will also be problematic to assure the country that Joe Biden is 110 percent fit to be president in November but then to leak to the public by February 2021 that he’s crazy and it’s past time for his radical vice president, regrettably, to move him out." ...

Of course, Biden's successor, the Vice-president, certainly won't be so described by the national press corps which so fawns over the Clinton-Obama-Biden cabal. The public shall be told instead that it ought to be grateful to have so capable a person available to step in and take over for Biden .

(YouTube (comment & video compilation) ) 'Biden's cognitive issues can no longer be ignored' (Sky News Australia)

juny 30, 2020, 11:36am

I love how the cons can't even decide on a title for their masturbation thread.

Editat: juny 30, 2020, 12:11pm

Post #17 in

(Carnophile's) "Lefties are so cute, how they think the monsters they create won’t eat them--Part II"


"Reading"--It's "FUN-damental."

>6 proximity1:

Editat: juny 30, 2020, 4:32pm

Post #18 in

(Carnophile's) "Lefties are so cute, how they think the monsters they create won’t eat them--Part II"


I invite readers to try the following exercise--with an example case, noted here. But I suggest that readers not limit themselves to the example below alone; rather, they might repeat the exercise as often as they're inclined using any other texts they happen upon which afford the same test-making opportunities.

The exercise is a simple one.

Take the following (or any other) commentary in which the author (whatever his or her "race") lectures "White"-skinned readers on their latent racist tendencies--you should have plenty from which to choose lately-- and copy and paste the text into a "new document" of whatever you usually use as text-editor software.

Then, using the text-editor's search features, "Find" all the instances of the term "White"--with all its variants, "White's" "Whites" "Whiteness," etc. --and replace all of these with "Black", and its variants as the case may be.

Where some Black person, or, alternatively, a White person, is cited in the part of a victim,or of a perpetrator, or of any other role, replace that cited person's name with that of a person of the "other" "race" in an analogous role and circumstance.

So, where, for example, George Floyd is cited, one may replace Floyd's name with Tony Tempa's name and continue.

Then, when finished, re-read the commentary and see how its claims, arguments, assumptions and so on strike you, reader, for their logic, fairness, lack of bias, and non-racist character.

I used this example, which the reader here is free to try:

Originally titled as follows,
"White people say they want to be an ally to Black people. But are they ready for sacrifice?" | The Guardian (London) | 29 June, 2020*

it becomes, in the transformed version,

"Black people say they want to be an ally to White people. But are they ready for sacrifice?"

Try it and judge the results for yourself, reader. After all, we all know what fairness looks like, don't we? Plenty of Black people are ready to tell us if we don't know--especially if we are White.


* No surprise, The Guardian's editors ran this intellectually-bankrupt opinion essay with no provision I could find for readers' online comments.

A gutless, ideologically captive piece-of-shit newspaper and an equally worthless piece of hypocritical racist bullshit calling out others for their supposed racism.

juny 30, 2020, 5:22pm

But Republicans are afraid of their self-created monsters who support and supported Trump. Very afraid. With reason.

There's Monster Moscow Mitch, who agitated Kentucky voters to turn against Republicans.
Democrats Just Flipped A Kentucky State Senate Seat The GOP Held For 25 Years
Karen Berg’s special election victory is the latest indication that Republicans’ suburban struggles are only deepening.
Democrats won a special election to fill a vacant Kentucky state Senate seat this week, flipping a district Republicans held for decades and signaling that the suburban shift that helped create a blue wave in 2018’s midterm elections may continue in 2020.
The suburbs have become an ever-larger source of success for Democrats, especially as women have abandoned the GOP during the Trump years. Hillary Clinton carried the inner suburbs of cities nationwide in 2016, even as Trump’s success in rural areas pushed him to victory. In 2018, 38 of the 41 seats Democrats flipped on their way to the House majority were in suburban districts.

There's the Coronavirus Monster, Mr. Plague President

Ex-Bush Aide Lays Blame For New Coronavirus Spike: ‘This Is Trump’s Plague Now’
“What will happen in July is entirely Trump’s fault,” David Frum argued.
“The first coronavirus spike, in late April, can be blamed on President Donald Trump’s negligence. The second spike, in June, is his own doing,” David Frum argued Monday in a new column for The Atlantic, where he now works as a senior editor.

“This is Trump’s plague now,” he added.


Republicans. Doing a heckuva job!

Editat: jul. 1, 2020, 4:31am

Post #20 in

(Carnophile's) "Lefties are so cute, how they think the monsters they create won’t eat them--Part II"


Source/Credit: (Peter Titmuss/Education Images/Universal Images Group/Newscom)

(Reason) || Social Justice || "Kneeling in the Church of Social Justice"

America certainly has work to do on race, but ritual and symbolic acts aren't the way forward.

John McWhorter* | 6.29.2020 5:30 PM


"Over the past several years, a social justice philosophy has arisen that is less a political program than a religion in all but name. Where Christianity calls for people to display their moral worth through faith in Jesus, modern Third-Wave Antiracism (henceforth TWA) calls for people to display their moral worth through opposition to racism. In the wake of the murder of George Floyd, this vision has increasingly been expressed through procedures, routines, and phraseology directly patterned on Abrahamic religion." ...

(See the complete essay at the linked page.)


* John McWhorter's is a voice of reason. He is professor of linguistics at Columbia University and hosts Slate's language podcast "Lexicon Valley." His next book is Nine Nasty Words.

Professor Mc Whorter also writes for the Manhattan Institute's urban policy magazine, "City Journal" at www.city-journal.org

jul. 11, 2020, 10:33pm

>16 kiparsky: This thread was started by RickHarsch, one of our resident hard leftists.

jul. 11, 2020, 10:33pm

>19 Limelite: Republicans are afraid of their self-created monsters who support and supported Trump... There's Monster Moscow Mitch, who agitated Kentucky voters to turn against Republicans.
Democrats Just Flipped A Kentucky State Senate Seat The GOP Held For 25 Years

Democrats won an election. How are Democrats "self-created monsters" of Republicans?

Trump Backed-Republican Flips California House Seat.

“Garcia’s victory is the first time that California Republicans have won a Democratic-held House seat since 1998.”

Editat: des. 18, 2020, 2:46pm


" Lefties are so cute, how they think the monsters they create won’t eat them.."

" 'Blue Dress' Proof " | What it takes to get the media to believe a Democrat did wrong.

Peter Navarro releases 36-page report alleging election fraud 'more than sufficient' to swing victory to Trump

Joe Biden's looming disaster