Yet more Gothic gossip.

Això és la continuació del tema More Gothic gossip..

ConversesGothic Literature

Afegeix-te a LibraryThing per participar.

Yet more Gothic gossip.

1alaudacorax
març 5, 2020, 5:29am

A thread for any odds and ends that we think might be of interest to the group.

2LolaWalser
març 5, 2020, 12:23pm

Confirming THIS is the thread to use. ;)

3housefulofpaper
Editat: març 5, 2020, 8:27pm

This is more trivia than gossip.

There's a Facebook page "In Search of Pagan Hollywood". It's connected to a book, or has rather has been connected to a book while the book was being written. It's still not published, to the best of my knowledge. Anyway, to celebrate its five-year anniversary the owner/member created a playlist or mixtape of connected tracks (some very loosely - European tangos that create a fitting mood - as far as the Facebook page owner and author is concerned - and who's to argue?)

One of these tracks was a short spoken word piece by "Brother Theodore" (Theodore Gottlieb; November 11, 1906 – April 5, 2001). Someone I knew nothing about until recently, when the magic of the YouTube algorithm delivered a clip of him and Jerry Lewis on an old talk show, not getting along. I still don't know very much about him. But my ears pricked up when he introduced the piece as "a Chinese fairy tale as it was told to me some time ago by my good friend the writer, Clark Ashton Smith." He then tells paraphrased version of CAS's 1930 story "The Willow Landscape".

Did he really become acquainted with CAS? If he was how did they meet? If he didn't really know him, how did he come to know about him? I might be barking up the wrong tree but they did have at least one mutual acquaintance, and that was Harlan Ellison who is an interviewee in the CAS documentary The Emperor of Dreams and also one about Theodore (clips are on YouTube) entitled To My Great Chagrin.

Here's the track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPVEka517Wo&list=OLAK5uy_neAoKIwKgcpvtJ39i9A...

Edited for typos

4LolaWalser
Editat: març 5, 2020, 8:18pm

That was nice to hear.

Are you sure it's an original Smith story? I know it for certain and I don't think I've read any CAS. I think it is legit Chinese folklore (longing man enters a miniature fairy tale landscape, lives happily ever after).

I'm not familiar with either of the two (ETA: beyond knowing "of" CAS) so can't tell why they couldn't have met! Their dates seem to overlap sufficiently, at least. Tell more? Was either a walled-in hermit? :)

5housefulofpaper
març 5, 2020, 8:26pm

>4 LolaWalser:

The original version - or CAS's retelling, if that's what it is - is collected in The Door to Saturn, volume 2 of the collected fantasies of Clark Ashton Smith. The series editors, Scott Connors and Ron Hilger, make no mention of this being an old folk tale in their story note. Of course, Chinese folklore may not be within their sphere of expertise!

Now I've looked, I see that they do mention Theodore's retelling. The story (which CAS had originally only managed to sell to The Philippine Magazine) has this "singular distinction" of being selected for performance "by the monologist". But it was a complete surprise when I heard it.

6housefulofpaper
març 5, 2020, 8:35pm

As to why they couldn't have met, I suppose I was thinking about CAS's situation, being isolated in rural California (looking after his elderly parents for much of his life,and never having money to travel). I don't know that he ever left California but by the end of his life he had fans making the journey to visit him (some from as far afield as Japan!).

I had in mind that Theodore was based on the East Coast but looking back at his Wikipedia entry he was in California in the late '40s. Maybe they did become personally acquainted but I don't recall reading about it.

7LolaWalser
març 5, 2020, 9:11pm

I'll keep in mind to try to find this story--a casual search brings up way too many links to digest. It's not impossible that I've come across the CAS story somewhere BUT I'm sure I've read far more Chinese (and Japanese) tales since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. Plus I'm convinced the Chinese did everything first and best anyway. :)

8LolaWalser
març 10, 2020, 1:35pm

I want to note Max von Sydow's death, but with a different role and scene than what inevitably comes to mind...

"Meaningless cadaver" (The Magician, 1958)

9alaudacorax
març 11, 2020, 5:56am

Interesting choice ...

Your post and this context--this group, I mean--has reminded me that I have The Hour of the Wolf around here somewhere, still unseen. Perhaps I'll hunt it out this evening to mark his passing.

10LolaWalser
març 23, 2020, 12:03pm

How's it going, Paul? Have you battened the hatches?

A colleague picked me up at four this morning to close the last of our operations down. I put my last cell lines into deep sleep... We dropped off our stash of masks and other protective gear with the medics--it's not as bad as in the US but shortages are looming.

Now I'm depressed and don't know what to do.

I used to joke about hoarding ten thousand+ of books in case of a disaster. Damn. Here we are.

11alaudacorax
març 23, 2020, 5:47pm

>10 LolaWalser:

Having serious problems battening down hatches at the moment.

First having to make repeated visits to crowded supermarkets looking for simple things like a loaf of bread or half a dozen eggs.

Second I have a sinus infection dating back to a nasty head-cold I had over New Year. Took it to the doc; he thought it was a sinus infection, too; BUT ... it involves a mild sore throat, and if you have a sore throat for a couple of months it's routine that they send you to see a specialist--'fast-track cancer something or other'. Specialist said my sore throat down to sinus infection and polyps BUT ... spotted a slight swelling on the base of my tongue which he said was almost certainly healthy tissue but felt I should have a biopsy to be certain. The result has been hours and hours hanging around the local hospital.

Oh well, all over for the time being--all I have to worry about in the near future is finding food ...

12LolaWalser
març 23, 2020, 8:03pm

Oh no, what bad luck. I hope at least the results were reassuring.

Are deliveries not an option? Do you have anyone nearby to lend a helping hand and bring you groceries? If not, maybe a contact number for people volunteering to do so? Would be best if you could stay home and not go out at all.

13housefulofpaper
Editat: març 24, 2020, 7:51pm

>11 alaudacorax:
That all sounds pretty grim. Hope things are okay, and the shops get back to normal. We're told it's panic buying and hoarding, and the supply chain is holding up. Which I hope is true (the second part, that is.

14alaudacorax
març 25, 2020, 8:51am

>12 LolaWalser:, >13 housefulofpaper:

Having a crisis of conscience about deliveries at the moment. I'm pretty healthy and robust and active and I really don't want to put more pressure on the system when so many are more vulnerable than I. On the other hand, I'd like to register with my local supermarket as 'elderly' (one of the categories for delivery here and I'm seventy) just in case I actually contract the thing. Easier said than done, though. You have to phone, and either the line is busy, or, believe it or not, I get the message, "The telephone network is busy at the moment. Please try again later." Oh well ...

As for my personal health, I'm pretty sure, as were the consultants, that there's nothing wrong with me other than the sinus infection. I think they are 'belt and bracers' cautious in fear of 'no win, no fee' lawyers. Thanks for your concern, though.

Funny thing about the current situation: I usually think of myself as a pretty solitary individual, these days, but this 'social distancing' has made me realise that I normally find myself in conversation with people practically every day. I suppose it's natural when someone comes across me out in fields and woodland with a pair of binoculars, but I suppose I have that kind of face--complete strangers will strike up conversations in quite busy places in town. Puts politeness and caution at war with each other.

15alaudacorax
març 25, 2020, 9:05am

Just read a facebook post by someone who was pulled over by police on the way to work, asked if he was a 'key worker' to be out on the road. Big Brother is watching us! Hope they didn't shove their face in the window like they usually do ...

16LolaWalser
març 25, 2020, 9:42am

>14 alaudacorax:

Please be cautious, Paul, the more one ventures about, the more chances of contagion there are--and if you get it, unfortunately you could both suffer yourself and spread it around unawares. Phones are crazy at the moment but I'd keep at it until you manage to get on a list and please don't think of it as an imposition. I've volunteered to pick up groceries etc. for some in my building--we WANT to do this, and not just to help individuals but all of us.

17housefulofpaper
març 26, 2020, 9:58pm

I thought I had successfully posted these pictures already, but I can't see them. Apologies if Librarything is only playing up for me, and you see a double post.

Here are a couple of photos of the best room in my house (it has a chair now!). Even with a new Billy bookcase, I still have to store stuff in boxes here, which spoils the effect a bit. More than a bit.



18LolaWalser
març 27, 2020, 12:30pm

Excellent comfy chair!

Pictures of my apartment would scare horses. This is from a few years ago, just a random corner:



As you can see (maybe) the books have eaten the sofa.

It's worse now.

19alaudacorax
març 28, 2020, 3:38am

The trouble is, the one you want is always behind or beneath. I've got DVDs in (I think it's) five of those big, plastic storage boxes you get in office supplies shops, stacked up in one pile in the spare room. NHS were saying that older people need to be getting more 'load-bearing' exercise. Well, that's mine--I'm shifting those boxes on a regular basis--the one I want ALWAYS seems to be in the bottom box ...

20housefulofpaper
març 28, 2020, 9:12am

>18 LolaWalser:
And the chair was free! It was my brother's but he and wife with redecorate more than I do, so it had to find a new home.

Your picture manages to make mine look quite minimalist!

>19 alaudacorax:
I started a campaign of photographing the contents of all my stacked boxes. The plan is, at least I'll know what room to look in...

21LolaWalser
març 28, 2020, 11:04pm

>20 housefulofpaper:

Hand-me-down furniture is the best. (The only good thing about being poor in Manhattan's richest neighbourhood was the ability to gather their fabulous rejects. There was a Salvation Army shop regularly visited even by the better off because it was known as the spot where Ladies Who Lunch unloaded their last season's trinkets--shoes to pianos and everything in-between.)

>19 alaudacorax:

I know exactly whereof you speak. It's a slow and lazy day when I don't shift at least half my weight in books...

22benbrainard8
abr. 19, 2020, 2:12am

Thank you all for sharing pics of your libraries, now mine feels sparse. I hope you all are safe, reading great Literature, and are able to self-isolate with at least the comforts of those you can share with, whether via phone, emails, or good 'ole fashioned letter-writing.

23alaudacorax
Editat: abr. 19, 2020, 6:10am

>22 benbrainard8:

Love the profile pic. Palais Garnier, right? AKA the opera with the phantom, so good, sound, Gothic credentials.

Also, hat off to someone with the fortitude to enter 566 books in twenty-four hours!

ETA - Forgot to say - welcome to the group!

24benbrainard8
abr. 19, 2020, 1:47pm

Thank you so much, I spent half day yesterday just perusing what other folks are reading, while loading my book data, then realized I could also load my DVDs and music ,too.

Yes , Palais Garnier, from a much too busy, late June-early July 2019, 11-day trip...to London, Oxford, Paris, and The Versailles.

I've also been enjoying reading the various Gothic threads, and especially found some extrapolating about what constitutes Gothic to be fascinating---- Literature, music, art, film...

During this rather solemn time (I work in hospital care/research), I just re-read Camus' The Plague, and realized our time is indeed precious and it should be lived fully.

And nothing is more fulfilling to me right now than taking a nice walk, reading, and enjoying some coffee time. Please enjoy these leisure movements while talking and listening to those like-minded folks. It's a great joy indeed!

Regards from the US Pacific NW.

25LolaWalser
abr. 19, 2020, 3:01pm

Hi, Ben, nice to see new faces. Wishing you all the luck and fortitude in dealing with the pandemic firsthand.

26housefulofpaper
abr. 19, 2020, 6:29pm

Hello from me too, and echoing Lola's wishes.

27benbrainard8
abr. 19, 2020, 8:20pm

Thank you both very much.
Sorry, this may seem off topic because I've read it another (recent) thread, but what, in your opinions, are the best Jean Rollin films to get on Blu-Ray/DVD?

28benbrainard8
abr. 19, 2020, 8:40pm

From among Rollin vampiire films? I liked "Fascination", and would like films that have similar visuals, especially the architecture and atmosphere.

29housefulofpaper
abr. 19, 2020, 8:44pm

>27 benbrainard8:

Quickly, off the top of my head:
Shiver of the Vampires (a bit atypical, but the most psychedelic one)
The Iron Rose (again atypical, but very spare and feels like it belongs to a Northern French/Netherlands/Belgium melancholy fantasy tradition - I'm thinking of a vague air that ties together, for example, Bruges-la-Morte and Harry Kumel's Daughters of Darkness and the stories of Michel de Ghelderode.
Lips of Blood
Fascination

30housefulofpaper
abr. 19, 2020, 8:45pm

>28 benbrainard8:

I hadn't seen your last post; there's nothing else quite like Fascination but I'd still go for the other three I mentioned.

31benbrainard8
abr. 19, 2020, 10:17pm

Thank you very much, I'll review all of these and will pick at least two of them. I'm already planning on purchasing Fascination, so figure at least couple more will compliment.

32pgmcc
abr. 20, 2020, 3:21am

>17 housefulofpaper: & 18

Your photographs both delight me and terrify me. They delight me in a "I am not alone" way, but terrify me because they are so much neater than my piles of books.

This is the top of my filing cabinet.

33LolaWalser
abr. 20, 2020, 10:27am

>27 benbrainard8:

I agree with Andrew's suggestions but would also add The escapees and Night of the Hunted (not vampires, but like Fascination feature pairs of women as central characters) and Grapes of Death--dumb-sounding title but just about the only poetic "zombie" film I have seen, and also (in my estimation) the scariest, perhaps the only truly scary Rollin film.

But, seeing as you're in the States, you may be able to check out a baker's dozen of Rollin films for free--assuming you have a public library card. The American streaming company Kanopy gives public library users in the US and Canada free access to some monthly number of programmes (8 in Canada), and currently they are offering all of these Rollin movies:

The Shiver of the Vampires; Lips of Blood; The Living Dead Girl; Requiem for a vampire; Demoniacs; The Rape of a vampire; Grapes of Death; The Escapees; Two Orphan Vampires; Night of the Hunted; The Iron Rose; Dracula's Fiancée; Killing Car (speaking of atypical, this might be it).

Incidentally, speaking of complementary to Fascination, there's a non-Rollin movie you might want to check out too if you don't know it already, José Ramón Larraz's Vampyres (1974). It too has a couple of female vampires and a setting of a grand manor.

>32 pgmcc:

For some reason I recall that Charles-Valentin Alkan reputedly died under an avalanche of badly housed books. ;)

34pgmcc
abr. 20, 2020, 10:58am

Is that the guy who foretold the date of his own death, locked himself into his library to be safe, and was then crushed to death by a falling bookcase.

There are times when I feel that could be my fate.

What a way to go? I can imagine worse.

35benbrainard8
abr. 20, 2020, 12:34pm

Thank you very much for the additional suggestions, vey helpful and informative.

I've seen The Night of the Hunted (1980) and Vampyres (1974). Sigh, now I've got to decide among all of these which three-four of these films to purchase. I admit my collection of DVDs/Blu Ray are woefully lacking in Horror-Genre, unless you count Altered States (1980), and Jacob's Ladder (1990) as Horror films. My only definite is The Shining (1980), but the literary version of it is far better than it's film counter-part.

So it looks like I've got some online shopping to do. It was fortunate, for some reason I could stream all of the Rollin films on Netflix, this was about 5-6 years ago and I did watch as many as I could.

Another film that I'm waiting to purchase, and I don't even know how to categorize it, is Lars von Trier Melancholia (2011), which I saw two-three times in the theater. It has a wonderful soundtrack, too.

I agree, if you can choose death by book shelves, that's not a bad way to go. And if you're lucky, something you really like in your collection might open up and you can peruse it as you lay there...not bad.

Best to you all.

36benbrainard8
abr. 21, 2020, 10:19pm

After reviewing them all, these are the ones I've chosen to purchase within next month-two: Night Of The Hunted, Fascination, The Iron Rose, Vampyres, & The Rape of the Vampire.

37housefulofpaper
abr. 22, 2020, 8:39pm

>32 pgmcc:
So much neater? I'm not sure "overflowing the available shelving by a huge margin and piled up in boxes from the loft to under the stairs" really deserves such praise!

36>
Another film that you might be interested in, Messiah of Evil. It's more Lovecraft-inflected in content , and early-70's Movie Brat in direction and storytelling style, than in any way Rollinesque. Nevertheless I think of it as having some kind of kinship, a "family resemblance". It used to be very obscure, I got my French DVD through Amazon Marketplace a few years ago, but good digital copies seem to be around now.

38benbrainard8
abr. 22, 2020, 9:42pm

I just quickly reviewed this "Messiah of Evil": "A small California village is attacked by zombies in this 1974 thriller", but I've got to admit, I'm so afraid of anything with zombies that I won't watch anything with them. Can't explain it... cannot even get through a relatively tame movie like "World War Z" , my retired boss said, "just pretend it's a cartoon" but I had to stop watching it after the first portion of movie.

Odd that vampires and lycans/werewolves don't bother me, but am completely terrified of anything resembling a zombie (?);

I love looking at the photos of all (your) books, bookshelves, and room decor. Best item I've got in my small reading den is a small wooden sign that says "Go Away, I'm Reading". Nothing more decorative than this...sigh.

Guess my only questions are---do you have time to read all the books or have you finished reading most of them? Do you donate them ever? Culling of the books? And how to categorize them?

Admit that I've never considered a Nook or Kindle, something about having the book in a form that is tangible--the smell of the pages, old bindings, the feel of pages when you turn them...


39alaudacorax
abr. 23, 2020, 3:24am

>38 benbrainard8: - ... do you have time to read all the books or have you finished reading most of them? Do you donate them ever? Culling of the books?

Aaargh!!! Perennial and contentious questions on LT. If you hunt around you'll find yards, metres, furlongs--miles, probably--of threads on those topics. Culling of books especially: for some people ... well, clubbing baby seals has nothing on it ...

40pgmcc
abr. 23, 2020, 4:00am

>39 alaudacorax: Hear! Hear!

The use of the "c" word in relation to books may require reporting The Society for the Protection of Books.

41benbrainard8
abr. 23, 2020, 9:25am

The Magical Society for the Protection of Books, I might add.

If someone, say a well-meaning spouse, gives you a book that you despise, say, "The Modern Gentleman: A Guide to Essential Manners, Savvy and Vice" .

At first, I placed it under "Horror genre". The I unceremoniously donated it. I guess a good round of donating helps now and again. For books like the one above, anything by Anne Geddes, etc.

But then there are the well-meaning attempts, like when I got The Paris Review online, which has been a complete disaster for me, sigh. I can't even remember where I stash the passwords.

42housefulofpaper
abr. 26, 2020, 7:19pm

>38 benbrainard8:
Sorry it's taken me a while to respond.
Actually, I understand your aversion to zombies I shared it for along time. They're still a long way from my favourite monster. But between getting into modern horror writing at the height of the zombie boom (as I remember it, the first "Best New Horror" I bought was virtually all zombie stories, with the summary of the year in publishing documenting just loads and loads of zombie novels) and things like zombie walks (in which my brother was a keen participant for a few years) I became fairly well acclimatised.

(it's interesting, though, that the modern cinematic zombie is closer to the folkloric European vampire than the figure from Haitian folklore.)

For what it's worth, the Messiah of Evil zombies are more like Invasion of the Body Snatchers "pod people" than animated corpses.

Thanks for the kind words about my books and the house. I was going to say the camera angle was selective but I did get in some of the cardboard boxes spoiling the effect...

Onto your questions..
I've read about half my books - this includes all the paperbacks hidden away in yet more boxes, in the loft, in the space under the stairs...part of my feels guilty about it but on balance it's good to know I won't run out of new books to read, and/or when the moment is right, an author or particular book will be there.

Culling...yes. Not in any number, although I probably am already past the point where I should have a one-in-one-out policy (I mentioned the loft - those joists are not supposed to be load-bearing. A bare handful of old non-fiction paparbacks and a book about shipwrecks and treasure will be going to the charity shop when the lockdown is over. But I also have some books that have been attacked by mould. A neigbour's tree roots blocked the downpipe at the front of my house and the wall become saturated with rainwater without my noticing. Current situation is, pipe unblocked, brickwork repointed, still letting the wall dry out, second dehumidifier purchased, increased vigilance with dusting and checking for damp spots (microclimates), keeping an eye on some books, and the worst effected quarantined in a box waiting to see what happens. They may have to be destroyed.

Categorising..I do try. It's a sort of approximation of the Dewey library system, but it runs in 3 distinct bands because I had the built-in downstairs shelves made with a small shelf at the top and a larger ones at the bottom - so I don't kill myself by dropping a large book on my head. I'll try to attach a picture (this will be, as it were, the start of the library. All the fiction is in the "continuation" of it upstairs).

43housefulofpaper
abr. 26, 2020, 7:43pm

>42 housefulofpaper:



So the first three rows in the picture from top left are - immediately deviating from Dewey - periodicals (2 bound volumes of The Strand Magazine that my sister found many years ago, and then small press/weird fiction related volumes), general reference, books about books, THEN we get back on track with Philosophy, Religion, Myth and Folklore, Languages, Science and Technology, Arts, and one volume of history before running out of space. The bottom two shelves repeat the classification. I class facsimiles of illuminated manuscripts etc. as "books about books". These days, I don't think I can afford to add to their number, sadly. The shelf with what looks to be wasted space is where the damp and mould appeared just below some of my most prized books - thankfully they're all ok.

Originally the top shelf was paperbacks but over time they've nearly all been squeezed out by volumes that just about fit up there - Everyman Library size and so on - to maximise the use of space.

44benbrainard8
abr. 27, 2020, 3:01pm

Hello and thank you for a great reply. I think I'll break up my answer and f/u, because I was actually reviewing your book shelves yesterday (outstanding collections!).

Well, first to zombies. I think my complete aversion to them might be a combination of things. I do remember reading some books that were scary when I was a teen. Though at time I could take Horror books as a genre, because at same time, I was reading "Dracula", "The Exorcist", and "The Shining", I think the one or two books that I read that had zombies frightened me the most.

Then to combine that with my first job/career, away from home....as a combat medical and Corpsman in the Navy/Marines, I guess I saw too many things as a EMT. Seeing those type of things probably caused me to see the human body in a different way than how many people do. I guess the closest thing I can think of in real-world, is how Cronenberg films are often filmed via his lens as a science-driven director/film-maker. So whenever I've seen films that zombies has protagonists. they frighten me more than they ought to. My retired boss tried to convince me that if I saw "World War Z" but imagine that instead of zombies, I could view it as a pandemic, then perhaps it wouldn't' scare me as much. So I tried watching it, only to completely be in panic during certain scenes...

It's interesting to me that vampires. ghosts. ghouls, Lycans/werewolves, & other types/genres don't have make me frightened. I actually like vampires (vampyres) the most. But perhaps my exposure to severe accidents. incidents. etc. made me particularly afraid of zombies. Or maybe that plus my childhood exposure to them in Literature.

Well, some-day I'll perhaps get over that...it's a bit bothersome.

On a much lighter note, I remember seeing the re-make of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978), and thoroughly enjoying it!

I'll reply about your library, sorting & classification methods after reviewing your posts and photos some more. I was deeply impressed by the thoroughness of your collection, esp. the depth of it, the Edgar Allen Poe, the Weird Tales collections, etc., etc.).

45benbrainard8
abr. 28, 2020, 12:00pm

To your classification and storage systems--

I can see where you'd need these for a collection that large. Fortunately or unfortunately, my collection is little less than 500 books total, and I don't have entire categories (not many historic, religious), while a few categories I've only small amounts of. I keep Art and Architecture books separate from my primary collection, only because those two categories tend to have books that are of large(er) size.

I noticed you've got Folio and I've just had to read up on that. Is a Folio edition only available in England/UK? I'm assuming that they're also in the US, but I've never seen them. Though I'd imagine that they're available here online.

Quite sorry about what happened with the water leakage. I've been great paranoid about the condition of my books, keeping them away from sunlight as much as possible, keeping the two large bookshelves that I've got off the walls.

I think you've built your collection for over an extended period of time and also (just my educated guessing here) that you've lived in the same house for longer (?) time-period. I've been moving a lot through out my life, this is my 26th place, where I'm currently at. So I've always had to purge books throughout my life as I've moved, especially between countries which has occurred twice so far.

But I've got to admit, if costs, space, place, and time were no object---your collection would be one to strive for! I do hope that the ones damaged by water damage can recover. I've only damaged one book in that manner, when I read "The Mummy", by Anne Rice, at a seashore in Japan. To this day, it appears different, so I'm afraid that this wouldn't be good news... perhaps your books will come out better off though. Do you use a dehumidifier in the rooms, too?

Our NW weather is wet but it's not very humid. If I'd remained in Japan, then I'm sure my collection would be smaller, books don't tend to do very well there because of the high humidity.

Ah...I see what you're doing for your classification(s). Because my collection is so small, I can generally get by just keeping a few subsets. I try to keep them separate by genre, and a few of the authors that we've got the most of get their own shelves. We've got nearly all the Murakami, Haruki books, in both in Japanese and in English so e gets nearly an entire shelf to himself.

And when I was reviewing your photos of your books, some of them have stands? Or are those for taking photos of them only?

Thanks so much, sorry I'm bit too wordy here...

46benbrainard8
abr. 28, 2020, 12:19pm

I've posted a photo of my (very) small collection & reading space---you'll see the room itself isn't very adorned, is rather plain.

47housefulofpaper
abr. 28, 2020, 6:06pm

>46 benbrainard8:
You do have the better of me by owning a proper desk. I've been home-working with an ironing board as an improvised desk for the past month (it does, though, have one advantage - its adjustable height. Some heights may leave no room for your knees, however!)

>45 benbrainard8:
It's mould that attacked my books, rather than their suffering direct water damage. That's why I think they may be beyond recovery. The guidance online (and here) seems contradictory. Some sources say the mould can be simply brushed off, others tell you to remove the affected items before the rest of the collection falls victim too.

Coated art paper, and the insides of dust jackets, have fared the worst. The mould has grown into it, it isn't just sitting on top of the paper.

What I've learned recently is the importance of air circulation (my house, like most British homes, does't have air conditioning) and that sometimes, despite its beaching properties, sunlight can be your friend. I've been lucky with sunny days and unusually low relative humidity for the past month and this has helped with the remedial work (is that the right term?) but it's turned wet today - and predicted to stay that way for the next couple of weeks.

I assume you're looking at the individual cover pictures in my catalog(ue). Most of those images are from Amazon or other Librarythingers. When I have taken my own picture the book is just laid down on a cushion and snapped with my phone.

Folio books should be available worldwide, they're certainly available in the US. for a very long time they operated a membership model but now you can simply order from their website, or look at the secondhand market. They started in 1947 so there is a lot of stock out there. Horror, the weird, fantastique has been a relatively small part of their list. It's ramped up a bit in the last 10 years, which is clearly a commercial decision to court the American market - muscling in on Easton Press.

By the way, take a look at the "How do you display your books" thread at the Folio Society Devotees group, for a collection, and library, that knocks mine into a cocked hat!

I did look at your photo gallery and but hadn't realised that you'd lived in Japan. I assumed you'd been on holiday there - I must have connected it with your comment about your trip to Oxford, London and Paris. My neighbours lived there for some time and really loved it. I would find the climate extremely punishing, I think (also, I don't have the skills or qualifications to get work there).

Actually, I started my collection (in the sense of never throwing anything away, not in the sense - which still doesn't apply to me - of building a coherent/thematic collection well before I bought this house. I've been here for 20 years and only moved once before that (my parents moved house when I was 18). Moving the collection now, would be a traumatic nightmare.

I've been scrolling up to check your posts, and replying in reverse order, I see. I can entirely understand your aversion to zombies. I'm hesitant about saying anything further, after what you've written there. I suppose they present human mortality and physical frailty (or better, vulnerability) in a way the other classic monsters do not - if anything they can promise a kind of non-Christian defeat of death.

48benbrainard8
abr. 29, 2020, 12:51pm

Thank you, I've begun looking the Folio Society US web-site. They have a fairly expansive collections, so I've got many items to peruse.

Yes, mould (mold) would be quite a serious problem. I've been reviewing treatments online as I'm sure you've already done. Yes, some may be beyond recovery unfortunately. But I hope you can save those that you most treasure. If you've space, it might be best to remove the ones to another location, though I'm not certain that they'd contaminate your other books. When I said de-humidifiers above, I meant to do you keep them throughout your house? Does it get very humid where you live?

We here in Pacific NW of US are fortunate in that, though rainy, it's really fairly dry in our weather throughout the year. Our homes too, have little air conditioning, only central heating for winter-times, but no air conditioning for Spring/Summer. Like where you live, mould (mold) can be issues if our homes are not ventilated well though, so I've heard. We'll open various windows and keep two-three electric de-humidifiers going during Spring/Summer months. So far, no problems for my items or furniture. But I'm really glad you wrote about your experience, it's given me something to ponder, perhaps to prepare for. One of my co-workers once mentioned that they do make "water detection alarms & sensors" that can be placed for detection of water damage, but that's not the same as mould (mold) prevention.

I've been in the house I currently live in since Year 2005, so that's about 14-year period. It's taken me that long just to acquire the books, CDs, & DVDs/Blu-rays that I've got now. Your collection would be difficult to move, but if you ever happened to relocate, heh....you'd have quite a chore.

Ahh...zombie-fear affliction. Yes, you're correct a "non-Christian defeat of death". That's putting it very nicely. You'd think I'd be more afraid of vampires (vampyres), but the sanguinary appearance(s) of our undead friends have never bothered me. I find them to be the ultimate (early) Romantics--- in some manner of speaking----Gothic and romanticist, in appearance, manner: the traits we both admire and fear in them, yes?

I was reading some other really interesting post(s)------mentioning green apples, being called "arsenic apples" & German actor Hans Walter Conrad Veidt , who I honestly profess...to having never heard of. What films should I watch that he's in? Where would, or should I start? Hm...I see that he's in "Casablanca" so since I've got that on Blu-Ray, perhaps that's a start. But Lola Walser, and others, have a incredible threads/paragraphs on this actor, and now I feel bad and that I should know his work (s).

Yes, I've lived in Japan, twice, and have only visited London, Oxford, Paris, & The Versailles, just this past Year 2019 and only for 11-day period, too short.

RE Japanese literature----a favorite writer is Tarō Hirai, known as Edogawa Rampo, who, as you might know, took his name moniker from the Japanese Katakana pronunciation of Edgar Allen Poe. I especially like the book, "Japanese tales of Mystery & Imagination" (1956), which has some great stories, "The human Chair" and "Caterpillar", and others.

Ironing board as a desk. I've got admit, that's a new one on me. But at least you can adjust it, move it around, and it wouldn't take up too much space. With our new "stay-at-home" policies, our desk has now been taken over as a computer work-station.

Thank you so much, I'll be perusing and review a lot of the threads here.

You all may want to box my ears, but in run thread people mentioned Gothic music. I love modern Gothic music----we're talking Joy Division, The Cure, Bauhaus, Siouxsie & the Banshees, etc., etc. This is music between 1970-current. Would it be presumptuous of me to give a "best of/recommended list" of songs? At least in that thread or a new one? Or am I tempting the fates on even thinking about that?

Best and good health.

49housefulofpaper
maig 1, 2020, 8:46pm

Off-topic, but I just stumbled across this news item on YouTube. Appearances by John Baxter and Martin Stone.

50benbrainard8
maig 1, 2020, 10:36pm

Thank you, now I've got some to review this weekend. I just finished reading "Encounter" by Milan Kundera, and it was a bit too heady for me, or I'm just to much of a youngster to "get it"....

51alaudacorax
maig 2, 2020, 2:22am

>48 benbrainard8: - ... Conrad Veidt , who I honestly profess...to having never heard of. What films should I watch that he's in?

Just off the top of my head, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari/The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari has to be a must-see.

52benbrainard8
maig 2, 2020, 11:22am

Thank you, I think I'll stream "The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari" and "The Man who Laughs", too. I hope that they're available for streaming.

53LolaWalser
maig 2, 2020, 12:30pm

>52 benbrainard8:

As it happens, Cult Cinema Classics uploaded a good copy of the restored version on YT only yesterday:

The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920) Fantasy, Horror, Mystery Silent Film

You'll find subtitles under Settings if you want them.

54housefulofpaper
maig 2, 2020, 1:02pm

>49 housefulofpaper:

Hey, how about posting the link??
Sorry, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6wtsEl_t3A

55LolaWalser
maig 2, 2020, 3:31pm

>54 housefulofpaper:

I meant to ask but got distracted writing a post!

That's the Baxter of the A pound of paper and the Ken Russell book, I see--I shall watch this with my tea.

56housefulofpaper
maig 2, 2020, 6:51pm

There are some more items on YouTube that might be of interest. Well, once you look at one story about book collecting you start to get them recommended of course, but Ray Russell of Tartarus Presss has a Youtube channel (he's R. B. Russell professionally, I suppose to avoid confusing him with the writer of Mr Sardonicus). A few years ago he put up some longish interviews with people such as Mark Valentine and Reggie Oliver. There wasn't much for a long time, but during the current lockdown he's posted some things where we's gone through his collections of books by Arthur Machen, Sarban, and Robert Aickman.

Link:
https://www.youtube.com/user/EustonPiretRussell

57housefulofpaper
maig 2, 2020, 7:56pm




benbrainard8 you asked about dehumidifiers. I've got two now and here they are.They're temporarily in one room. I think the shelves are as tidy as I can get them now, until I can redecorate to repair the water damage to the wall. I had a sudden inspiration of placing shelving on wheels in front of the fireplace, where all those boxes are now. Have to investigate that when the lockdown is over...

I would appreciate a list of songs! You may have noticed we batted the idea around a few years ago and we occasionally return to it. Goth as in Bauhaus, Siouxsie etc, as a category of Romantic music, including operas and ballets on Gothic themes, music of the 12th Century even, the time period of Gothic architecture.



This is off-topic, it's not Gothic, but it's pretty melancholy for book lovers. It's the site of what used to be one of the biggest paperback book printers in the UK, Cox & Wyman. Photographed this afternoon.



Is this Gothic? Probably not, but there's not much that is, within walking distance, unless I head into town and the Abbey ruins.

58benbrainard8
maig 3, 2020, 12:33am

Thank you very much, Lola, I'll look this up and use the link from below, too.

59benbrainard8
maig 3, 2020, 1:08am

housefulofpaper,

Yes, those are the type of dehumidifiers that I'd in mind. We have similar type, only difference is that ours are a little flat in configuration/design.

Well, I think the general state of Literature, at least in regards to the quality of what we can generally find, is rather melancholy. But at least if someone is persistent, they can generally find what they're looking for, can't they?

Yes, that well is definitely Gothic, I think so. Even the design of the brickwork and the writing font...very interesting.

Well, let's see. About my favourite Goth music. I'd probably start with a few keys songs, from particular albums. Later, when you find them actually read the lyrics. Tell me if I'm close, on mark, or way, way off. I'm open!

Bauhaus--though many people say "Bela Lugosi's Dead" is the obvious choice, I fervently disagree. Instead, listen to the songs 1) MASK (from self titled album) 2) SPIRIT (from any of their compilations or live version 3) STIGMATA MARTYR


Siouxsie and the Banshees: 1) SPELLBOUND (from "Juju") 2) LULLABY (from "Tinderbox" 3) 92 DEGREES (from "Tinderbox")

The Cure--- 1) One Hundred Years, A Strange Day, and One Hundred Years, all from the "Pornography" album/CD; 2) LAMENT, from any of their compilation albums 3) TWILIGHT GARDEN (it might sound little Romantic, but I find it to be very sad, too, and melancholic 4) many of the songs from their albums "Faith" and "Seventeen Seconds", but look for DROWNING MAN on "Faith" album/CD

The Sisters of Mercy , the entire "Floodland" album, but definitely song COLOURS, FLOOD I, FLOOD II, and DRIVEN LIKE THE SNOW; many people also say the must haves are also MARIAN and ALICE (first independent EP)

Joy Division/New Order---entire album "CLOSER" from Joy Division but with a nod to song called THE ETERNAL;
Many people might not think of New Order as Goth, but listen to the album, "MOVEMENT", and especially the songs THE HIM & TRUTH; this is one of the most melancholic albums and if you cannot hear Bernard Sumner channeling Ian Curtis...

Hmm....these should definitely get you started. I've got a lot, lot, lots more. But let's start here, ok? With all of these song, I would definitely read the lyrics, and listen to the songs on headphones.

Tell me what you think----agree? disagree? No comments, which is fine, too, as we're all friends here.

Thank you all so much for your helpful suggestions and links, I've got some more homework for this coming week.

Health, wellness, and cheers to you all.

Ben

60benbrainard8
maig 3, 2020, 1:11am

Sorry, let's amend the two "One Hundred Years", the third song from "Pornography" by the Cure should have been A SHORT TERM EFFECT

61alaudacorax
maig 3, 2020, 9:46am

>56 housefulofpaper: - Well, once you look at one story about book collecting ...

Yeah, that link you posted in >54 housefulofpaper: resulted in me mislaying about an hour and a half yesterday morning ...

62LolaWalser
maig 5, 2020, 11:27am

>59 benbrainard8:

I love Siouxsie and have, I think, all their original albums; also lots of Cure and some Joy Division... but it's been years since I listened to them, truth be told, ever since I had to downgrade from a proper listening system to a small CD player. I've wasted years debating on whether to get a new system or a piano--meanwhile the books have taken over...

Have you seen the music thread here, btw? https://www.librarything.com/topic/123430

>56 housefulofpaper:, >54 housefulofpaper:

I wish my shelves were like Valentine's, but I'm afraid the situation is definitely of Sylvain's type, except even he manages far more order within the chaos--his stacks are so much straighter... Although it's a bit of a relief to notice that Valentine too must resort to double shelving here and there...

This makes me want to memorialize some of my more adventurous bookshop (and other places) finds, before the overwhelming advent of internet shopping: "Ah, and this gem, I acquired in two clicks from Booksnstuffgalore.com"

We used to have to trudge for miles through waist-high snow to get to a bookshop, grasshopper!

63benbrainard8
maig 5, 2020, 12:22pm

Thank you for thread, Lola.

We've been using combination, of CDs & blue-tooth speakers with our wireless devices that all have a Spotify family account on them---which is excellent, you can download entire albums, playlists. etc.

What I wouldn't give for a old fashioned book shop/store right now....

64frahealee
maig 5, 2020, 12:38pm

>57 housefulofpaper: Lovely to see the St. Anne well photo. As the grandparents to Jesus, St. Anne and St. Joachim often get tossed aside with a plethora of more 'fashionable' saints, but it's a big deal in my home, since my 22yr old twin sons were baptized that day. Plenty of patrons for Dylan Augustine and Nathan Andrew! =) How can I research the site?

65LolaWalser
maig 5, 2020, 12:40pm

>63 benbrainard8:

Although I have good speakers attached to my computer (possibly better than the CD player's) and have no problem enjoying movies via the computer, I have a strange dislike for listening to music the same way, at least for any great length (songs and excerpts on YouTube is okay; whole albums, operas etc. not so).

I'm still slow to take advantage of everything digital access can do these days. I only just discovered I can burn CDs via iTunes!

66LolaWalser
maig 5, 2020, 1:39pm

Want to see some some higgledy-piggledy sf and other pulp, with layers of dust as they'd appear in a honest-to-god secondhand shop, in a badly shot lurching and careening first-ever handheld phone camera video? Of course you do! :)

MY FIRST VIDEO EVER!!!1!

P.S. Observing the long-standing amateur video convention, there are boobs in it.

67frahealee
Editat: maig 5, 2020, 4:02pm

>57 housefulofpaper: >64 frahealee:

Found it! More than one scattered around the UK, apparently. The photo I found online has an ornate cast-iron cross on top of the caged dome.

Here, St.Anne de Beaupré is known far and wide, as is St. Joseph's Oratory built by little St. (Brother Andre) Bessette, with retained crutches/canes/staffs and all. The artist/sculptor who designed the 'crutch cross' to commemorate the numerous miraculous documented healings lives an hour away.

Various write-ups c/o:
www.ourladyandstanne.org.uk/the-shrine/history
insearchofholywellsandhealingsprings.com

I love that Catherine of Aragon made a personal pilgrimage there July 17, 1532 before the Henry viii hissy fit demanded it be demolished. She was there just prior to the traditional feastday of July 26th.

68housefulofpaper
maig 5, 2020, 5:55pm

>67 frahealee:

I'm glad my post was of interest, and you found all those connections. I have to say, I'm very impressed at how quickly you found the information online!

69frahealee
Editat: maig 5, 2020, 6:24pm

>68 housefulofpaper: I admit to having little interest in history unless it has a personal connection. Dates/names are hard to recall, in fiction and non-fiction, so the only reason England is a priority for me to even make an attempt is because both of my grandmothers were born there. I never met my grandfathers since they both died before my birth. The older I get the more I care, which is hard to fathom, since the sentiment is already marrow-deep. The loss of one's parents strips urgency from time-centric tasks, but long forgotten images swarm back into view in the oddest of ways. =) I'm thankful for it all.

70housefulofpaper
maig 5, 2020, 8:09pm

>66 LolaWalser:

Thank you for that!

Inevitably I suppose, I was looking for titles I own or have owned, even in the same edition...did I find one? I've picked up some 1970s Clark Ashton Smith UK paperbacks. I have all his stories newly edited in hardback. I keep thinking I should release these back into the wild, let someone else discover them. I feel like a dragon jealously guarding its hoard, keeping them in a shoebox in the loft!

A couple of photos of the shelves in my loft, as well. The books are double-banked and in comic bags for protection against changes of temperature. I still try to keep them in order, but when there's no room on the shelves, it's like I've crashing off a melting iceberg, they go where they will...!





-

71LolaWalser
maig 5, 2020, 8:27pm

>70 housefulofpaper:

Aw, thank YOU for watching--I ought to apologise for the seasickness no doubt incurred when I pushed the phone into what I hoped would be a "close-up"... as mentioned before, if there is a way to mess up something to do with cameras, I'll find it.

We share at least two CAS paperbacks I see. Of course I want to reach into that picture and de-bag all the goodies pronto. :)

I think I'll experiment some more with "memorializing" my books, at least those I can get to without excavations. There's something about capturing a gaze dynamically, in movement... maybe it feels more like browsing?

All the bookshops here are still closed. I can't believe people think haircuts are more important...

72benbrainard8
maig 5, 2020, 8:45pm

Yay for books, and I'm very happy to see someone protecting their collection(s).

Is that a Doctor Who book, or few that I see? Ok, just throwing this out here, but what do any of you all think of recent Dr. Who? I loved watching the David John Tennant episodes. And I'm almost afraid to ask how many Dr. Who books there are.

Ok, I watched the videos, very nicely done, and don't sweat the close-up issues. My family convinced me to get a "smart-phone" just last year. I was traipsing around with a flip-phone. My now retired boss joked it looked like a Star Trek communicator.

Sigh, if the books stores don't open up soon, I'll have to put in a 2nd or 3rd online book order, when I'd previously vowed only to do with DVDs/Blu Ray----

Haircuts indeed.....

73LolaWalser
Editat: maig 5, 2020, 11:32pm

>72 benbrainard8:

I'm an all-around Who fan, I just love the show in toto for its huge heart, unbeatable imagination, and infinite variety. That said, like almost every fan I have special favourites among the Doctors, eras, type of stories etc.

I love the Thirteenth Doctor and her seasons (IMO Rosa is the best Who story of all time--so far). Years ago I belonged to a Who forum where there were many haters of the idea that the Doctor could be a woman, and although I left well before 13, even by then it was becoming clear that even that place, with at least 80% of the membership being old(er) white men, was changing on that opinion, generally speaking.

I'm not sure how many Doctor Who books there are but I'd guess hundreds. I have about 30 so far, of which only about half are entered, and none read--frankly, I'm not sure I'll ever read them but I can't resist picking them up.

There are many stories independent of the televised episodes (i.e. original to the books).

If you're interested in the Doctor Who universe, you may want to explore the audio stories Big Finish has been producing for many years now: https://www.bigfinish.com/

I think they always have some offered for free, if you want to check them out. Mostly they use actors from the show--even some of the older Doctors like Tom Baker and Sylvester McCoy are still recording stories for them in their personas as the 4th and the 7th Doctor, and many, many others.

74benbrainard8
maig 5, 2020, 10:06pm

I really like the new Thirteenth Doctor and I've watched all the episodes. You're right on, they're full of wonder, intelligence, and I'm consistently surprised by some of them--such great story writing.

I nearly cried watching "Vincent and the Doctor" is the tenth episode of the fifth series, with Matt Smith.

Agreed, the stories are wonderful, each Doctor brings something new to the table.

I had to use subtitles to understand Peter Capaldi.

I grew up watching the Tom Baker shows.

And some of the stand alone shows are remarkable. I couldn't sleep for nearly a week after watching the "Blink" episodes.

Well, I've got some books, including a nice one, "Doctor Who: Who-ology". I'd guess there are many of them, including spin-offs.

Do you think that they'll keep on the Thirteenth Doctor, or will the stodgy 'ole white guys continue to throw little streamers? They shouldn't, it's time to evolve (little more please!);

75LolaWalser
maig 5, 2020, 11:26pm

>74 benbrainard8:

Well, I've no idea how the current situation with the pandemic might affect production--I think it's possible there'll at least be some delay--but last I heard there was at least one more season with the 13th Doctor to be had (which would make for the now-standard 3 seasons per Doctor).

No clue who they'll cast after Jodie... However, given that white men had been in the role a vastly dominant 13 times (including John Hurt's War Doctor), I think they'll most probably look for the next candidate among black/PoC actors. (Personally I'd be chuffed for a series of adventures with the fabulous Jo Martin, but that's probably too much to ask for from an alternative-universe storyline).

But this is just guessing--I'd be surprised but not shocked if 14 were another white man.

Vincent and the Doctor is a fantastic episode and I'm not shy to admit it brought me to tears back then too. Blink is deservedly one of the most popular stories ever, it's perfect from start to finish. My second-favourite after Rosa, and number 1 until then, is Heaven Sent. Capaldi/12 is my favourite Doctor actually. Before him, it was Tom Baker.

I didn't watch DW as a kid (I grew up in the Near East and television wasn't part of our entertainment, except on VHS) but discovered the show, the Davies/Moffat version, quite by chance about 15 years ago when I was browsing through the sci-fi offers in the library. Then I borrowed some of the "Classic" series and THAT was when I fell in love with it. Tom Baker in particular through some weird alchemy seemed to have re/created the show just so he could star in it--an icon for all time, one of those rare perfect fusions of an actor and a character.

That said, I by no means wish to diminish others' performances, for me the wonder of the show is precisely in its literal multi-facetedness. Even my least liked Doctor, Peter Davison, has some episodes so terrific I prefer them to some other with my fave Doctors.

Basically, if there is any DW to be had, I'm glad.

76benbrainard8
maig 6, 2020, 11:08am

Sorry, what is "Near East"? Is that a region in UK?

I grew up without TV after age nine but fortunately was able to see Tom Baker playing the role prior to that, late 1970s. I thought he was a great actor, and noticed & enjoyed his quirky persona, too, wasn't he always taking jelly babies out of his long coat pockets?

Was very fortunate to begin watching it 15+ years ago when Davies/Moffat had been writing their episodes. Also watched all the "Torchwood" shows, many of them were well written.

Yes, let's hope that Jodie Whittaker gets at least another season-two. I've only seen little of Jo Martin, but like you, have a feeling we'll be viewing another fellow in the role.

Well, not sure if I'll purchase many books, but I'm always on lookout for a great picture book, so always keeping my eyes peeled.

Just did online purchase of "Vampyres", "Night of the Hunted" , and "The Complete Fiction of H.P. Lovecraft (Knickerbocker Classics)". Will have to wait on the other vampire movies I'd had as they aren't available just yet ("Fascination", "The Iron Rose", and "The Shiver of the Vampires" or "Lips of Blood").

housefulofpaper ---- how deep is the St. Anne well ?

77benbrainard8
maig 6, 2020, 11:10am

not sure if I'll purchase many books-----Dr. Who books that is !

78LolaWalser
maig 6, 2020, 11:40am

"Near East" is what Americans call "Middle East". The former usage is older and still common elsewhere, presumably because it refers to a region colonised by Europe.

Good luck with your movie hauls. Years ago I got a Jean Rollin box with three of his vampire movies, as that was best value.

Collecting Target's Doctor Who is addictive. Best not to begin. :)

79housefulofpaper
maig 6, 2020, 8:07pm

There are some photos looking into the well, which is dry now. I couldn't find anything recording its depth.

The Doctor Who books in the picture are novelisations of stories from the 1963-1989 original series plus a couple of spin-off books from, I think, 1979. The number of Doctor Who books is definitely in the hundreds by now. There were three novelisations back in the '60s. In the early '70s these were reissued and new novelisations were produced at the rate of about one a month. By the '80s there was a sufficiently large fandom for the publishers to "fill in the gaps" with novelisations of earlier stories, and also to target the fans with hardbacks rather than paperbacks (hardbacks had hitherto been produced for public and school libraries and you didn't see them in shops). There were also non-fiction books aimed at children, and the traditional "annuals" (large but slim volumes in board covers, usually bought or intended as Christmas gifts). From the 20th anniversary onwards there was also a large "coffee table" type book from the publisher of the novelisations. Most of them were written by prolific anthologist (and, we have discovered, hoaxer) Peter Haining.

From 1989 new stories ("The New Adventures") were produced in paperback from Virgin publishing, under licence from the BBC. The tone was more adult than the TV series (or sometimes, adolescent) - in line with the median age of the fandom at that time. At the time of the 1996 TV movie/failed pilot the series moved back to the BBC and they got "reined in" a bit. Original novels continued when the series came back to air in 2005 but there was no explicit continuity with the 1989-2005 novels. Their continuity was already in conflict with the Big Finish audio dramas (commenced 1999) and the licensed comic strip running in Doctor Magazine. We can blame the Time War...

And here have been a huge number of spin-off books since the series came back, of course. The gaps in the original run of novelisations have been filled (Douglas Adams' stories, and two stories by Eric Saward). Some of the new (2005-) stories have been novelised and published in a pastiche of the 1970s paperback format. (I am missing one..I just remembered I lent City of Death to my niece years ago. She's at Uni now..!)

I have had my reservations about the series under Chris Chibnall - not about casting Jodie Whittaker or the other regular cast members, not about the supposed politics of the programme, but his storytelling.

80alaudacorax
Editat: maig 6, 2020, 9:11pm

>72 benbrainard8:, et al

Odd coincidence: I'm just about to go to bed and you've reminded my I was watching a DW episode on Netflix several hours ago. Something about a little lad mistakenly swallowing a jewel the Doctor gave him to hold and growing up a superhero. I switched it off to cook a meal and completely forgot to switch it on again. Watched Derek Jarman's The Tempest instead.

I'm in that sleepy state where I can't make up my mind whether to hunt it up and watch the rest of it or go to bed. Should do the latter, it's 1:30 here.

There were some amusing bits in the Jarman, (and Toyah Willcox, always a bonus in my book) but it was a bit short on the Gothic and on Shakespeare. Then, typical of my usual routine, I spent an hour or two failing to find my copy of The Tempest (the book) and an alternative film version I'm sure I own with Michael Hordern as the Prospero. Oh well, another time. Bookcases--must buy as many bookcases as I can find wall for ...

Edited to force touchstone--apparently LT is reluctant to have two touchstones for one title in one post ...

81alaudacorax
maig 6, 2020, 9:17pm

>80 alaudacorax:

There's a Doctor Who script there ... with Prospero as the Doctor and Miranda as the young female companion whose time on the show is up ...

82alaudacorax
maig 6, 2020, 9:24pm

On casting The Doctor ...

If they'd had any gumption, they could have cast an older woman as The Doctor and a susceptible teenage lad as the eye-candy companion ...

83alaudacorax
maig 6, 2020, 9:36pm

O ... kay, I'm sitting here, in the early hours of the morning ... dreaming up episode outlines for Doctor Who. I probably need help of some kind. Best go to bed ... finally!

84benbrainard8
maig 7, 2020, 10:56am

I'd like the idea of a older Dr. Who woman with a young male side-kick. And Captain Jack Harkness coming back in, every now and again, to really liven it up.

Ok, I've got to admit that there are just too many serializations out there. It's mind boggling.

It was the Otto Penzler/Black Lizard Publishing that save me on a few occasions, when I came across and bought their Black Lizard anthology: "The Big Book of Ghost Stories", and their vampire archives. Without some of the anthology books/series, it'd be really difficult to find literary treasures.

Hoping to find same with the "The Complete Fiction of H.P. Lovecraft (Knickerbocker Classics)". One reader said it took them nearly a year to finish it. But at least it's there!

Ok, someday a intrepid person will find out the depth of the St. Anne well. I wonder if it's safe for someone to actually go down it...that'd be an adventure.

85LolaWalser
maig 7, 2020, 11:26am

>82 alaudacorax:

I'm not sure older Doctors will work in the foreseeable future. They cast the 50-something Capaldi and the show tanked. As for casting an older woman; well, Jo Martin must be older than Whittaker (I can't find her birth date), at least in her forties, maybe fifties, so, technically, it did happen... (and she got great reception, although that may be easier to achieve for one-off appearances).

When people were doing imaginary castings back on GB, I always liked the idea of Margaret Rutherford as the Doctor.

General question: how about an OT thread for showcasing our treasures? Would you all be interested and willing to share?

86benbrainard8
maig 7, 2020, 12:38pm

What's OT ? Uhm, I don't know if I've any treasures. But am willing to share, if I've indeed got some.

87benbrainard8
maig 7, 2020, 12:39pm

OT= off topic?

88LolaWalser
maig 7, 2020, 2:49pm

Right--although, confusingly, the abbreviation is the same as for "on topic".

Well, I've been tinkering more with videos but progress in developing the skillz is veeeery slow... on the upside, this did stimulate me to dust some and try to make the mess more presentable, if that's the word...

89benbrainard8
maig 7, 2020, 3:25pm

Got it, sure I'm game. I'm still trying to figure out a lot of simple functions within this "posting", as I've never participated in any online group discussions before. E.g. (don't laugh), I still don't know how to do a simple link....

e.g. putting a link to the U-Tube video of the Bauhaus song, "Mask" that I think you'll find interesting, or at least, most definitely, Gothic.

90benbrainard8
maig 7, 2020, 3:29pm

I guess you call it a "hyperlink" (what's so hyper about that though, really?)

91LolaWalser
maig 7, 2020, 3:44pm

>89 benbrainard8:

I have "Mask" on my Vol.1 Bauhaus 1979-1983 CD.

OK, to link from YouTube, find the video you want, click on "Share", then copy the link in the pop-up.

Then paste the link here.

You may want to consult the tips about HTML--scroll up or down to find what you need:

https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/HelpThing:Html_tips#Creating_Links

92housefulofpaper
maig 7, 2020, 7:10pm

Responding to all the recent posts...

The well isn't very deep, certainly not record-breaking. The ground is clay and chalk here and there has been mining/extraction in past centuries. In fact a residential street was evacuated for over a year because unrecorded voids or tunnels under the houses were discovered and declared unsafe.

>82 alaudacorax: Surely the resemblance between Margret Rutherford (in Miss Marple mode) and Jon Pertwee's Doctor hadn't escaped your notice?...

I like the Jarman Tempest very much, and Toyah's performance in it. That plot line in >81 alaudacorax: is a bit how Carole Ann Ford was written out in 1964.

I would be happy to contribute to an OT treasures thread. What are people interested in? "Posh" books? Association copies/signed copies (I don't have many of those)? Just dive into a box of paperbacks, possibly still unread, see what's what?

I have started listening (or in some cases revisiting) the suggestions in >59 benbrainard8: and onwards, although I haven't had time for an extended listen so far. I think I will resurrect the gothic music thread for any thoughts I have.

93benbrainard8
maig 7, 2020, 9:10pm

ok, here goes:

https://youtu.be/4a2YH2ZRw2Q

And the lyrics, below:

Mask - Bauhaus

The man of shadows thinks in clay
Dreamed trapped thoughts of suffocation day
He's seen in iron environments
With plastic sweat out of chiselled slits for eyes

From the growth underneath the closed mouth
You'll catch if you listen
Rack-trapped cubist vowels
From a dummy head expression
From a dummy head expression

The transformation is invested
With the mysterious and the shameful
While the thing I am becomes something else
Part character part sensation

The shadow is cast (repeat)

Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Daniel Gaston Ash / David Jay / Kevin Haskins / Peter John Murphy
Mask lyrics © Universal Music Publishing Group

I'd love to see a separate thread on Gothic music, the one thread that Lola has reference above I tried to follow but honestly got lost, there were so many types of music. Perhaps there could be for Goth, post 1970s, for the 'youngsters'; of course one could argue that only Classical music is good enough to deserve the moniker of Goth. That's another discussion/thread.

I'll be curious to see if my link above works, very first attempt so be gentle with me, ok?

Best,

94benbrainard8
maig 7, 2020, 9:23pm

housefulofpaper

Thank you for the information on the well . It surely does sound intriguing. I'd be at loss of what to think if I saw it in-person. Not much difference to me between such places, and, say, churches, graveyards, caves, Temples, and Shrines (in Japan). I once stayed overnight in a Temple in area called Koya-San, in Wakayama Prefecture to the south of Osaka. When I asked others if they would stay in temples overnight, they all said, "no, too scary".

Perhaps we sometime don't know when we should be reverential, reverential and afraid, or maybe should just be afraid (?);

I'm all up for a offering of treasured items, though perhaps you all would have a far larger amount to contribute. But please do! I'm always curious-- if anything. Just tell me if my questions sound bit too simplistic. I'm open.

95LolaWalser
maig 8, 2020, 12:23pm

>92 housefulofpaper:

Surely the resemblance between Margret Rutherford (in Miss Marple mode) and Jon Pertwee's Doctor hadn't escaped your notice?.

Heh--now no one can unsee it! Although I think she was proposed as the alternative to Troughton or Hartnell...

I didn't have any one sort of "treasure" in mind, whatever one cherishes or would like to commemorate, basically. I was taking pictures of my Fu Manchus--not "posh" by any stretch of the imagination...

In fact, it's fair to say I've got enormous amounts of pure JUNK. Still. It makes me happy.

>93 benbrainard8:

Yep, link works, *game voice* SKILL ACQUIRED *zzinnnngggg*

Ben, feel free to start a dedicated thread if there's a special subject you'd like to cover. I think the "Gothic music" thread ranged far and wide because people were exploring the various instances of "Gothicness", real or supposed--but if you'd like to concentrate on one genre, period etc. just go for it.

I can't comment much as my exposure to Goth pop/rock etc. is very haphazard, but I'm always game to listen.

Incidentally, the "man of shadows thinking in clay" reminds me of Rabbi Löw and his Golem.

It's a very atmospheric song/video and yeah, I think fits well within the discussion.

96benbrainard8
maig 8, 2020, 12:46pm

Thank you very much, I will think about this. Hmm....best topic for a thread.

Goth music post 1970s might be a favorite genre to start with.

97alaudacorax
Editat: maig 8, 2020, 1:39pm

Now it's been pointed out to me, Jon Pertwee and Margaret Rutherford could be brother and sister ...

98frahealee
maig 10, 2020, 9:10am

>38 benbrainard8: My son brought home the World War Z dvd at some point, and my first response was, as was yours, repulsion. One hand covered one eye, the other clutched a soothing 'granny lap blanket' under my chin. I persevered due to Brad Pitt. I liked the family dynamic of a kind protective father offering himself as a sacrifice for their well-being in a courageous prudent way.

Point being, I then learned that the son of Anne Bancroft and Mel Brooks wrote the book as his own response to her cancer. He was trying to create a literary framework and visual image for the rampant irreversible damage that ultimately killed her. Now, Mel is famous for his Jewish roots and frames his humour through that lens, masterfully. However, Anne was raised in a devoutly RC Italian family, and her son was exposed to both views of faith. All of it gets woven into his book, and thus the film. After seeing a film review by a Catholic Bishop about this zombie movie, he also helped me look at it differently. By seeing the ultimate strength in the weakness, and the triumph of outward-facing love, by Brad Pitt's character and others, over an inward collapse of self-interest and corruption, of body and mind and lost souls. Each zombie represents a cancer cell destroying his mother's body, physical and mental illness. Once this was set in my mind, the movie was easier to absorb properly and I've watched it several times even without my sons around.

As mentioned in previous posts, my preference is werewolves over vampires and ghosts over zombies but they all make for interesting overlap. Frankenstein remains my favourite gothic novel, behind Wuthering Heights. I was unaware of my predisposition to gothic genre until entering books into Library Thing a few years ago, then was able to attack it with vigour, to learn more.

Funny how films/books would lessen their impact on us without that life experience lens. It's the searing pain of suffering that remains the most memorable. I hope to read the book in future, to better glean his interpretation and coping strategies, as my own mum died of cancer too. Happy Mother's Day to all living and deceased!

99benbrainard8
maig 11, 2020, 10:23pm

Hello frahealee, That's a very interesting set of observations about World War Z. Now , when I've read your notes, especially about it being a description of someone's reaction to having become ill, that brings into an entirely different scope for me. I've heard that there will be a sequel, I'm hoping it'll do the first movie justice.

You'll see in some of my previous post that my aversion to zombies also has grown out of my experiences as a medical Hospital Corpsman in the Navy & Marines. I supposed that one experiences the true horror of treating patients, esp. as a EMT, it's bit more difficult to view zombies. The decay of the body, versus seeing actual bodies that have been maimed, injured (yes, sometime grotesquely). I'm sure that even though my training helped to shield some of this strong reaction, perhaps subconsciously, parts of it took. As I mention above, ironically, the sanguine portions/observations never seemed to have a adverse effect on me.

I've no preferences, as to vampires, Lycans//werewolves, and ghosts, I find all to be really interesting and intriguing. But after having lived in Japan, I do see ghosts in an entirely different way. If I had to choose among the three, vampires are my favorite, especially in Literature & film.

Frankenstein is a wonderful book and I've re-read it over the years---

I remember being foolhardy enough in an advanced Literature class to attempt an analysis, of what I called "Conversations between Creator and Created".

For that , I analyzed, compared:

Blade Runner, the conversation between Roy Batty and Eldon Tyrell, in the Ridley Scott film adaptation of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"
Frankenstein, or, The Modern Prometheus, conversation between Dr. Frankenstein and creature
Paradise Lost
portions of the original Promethean/Prometheus (theme of tragic poet Aeschylus')

My professor, Dr. William L. Taylor at Seattle University, was bemused that I'd even attempt this---he gave me an A for effort and noted that my grammatical skills, at the time, were wretched. But he saw my enthusiasm.

I'd like to see a film version of the Promethean story...one that is uniquely original, but true to the ancients, but perhaps that's asking too much.

Best to you.

100alaudacorax
maig 15, 2020, 1:47pm

A short while ago, I found myself listening to a reading of De La Mare's 'The Almond Tree'. It was last of five 'Ghost Stories of Walter De La Mare' on BBC Radio 4 Extra. I'm baffled. This is not a ghost story, surely?

101alaudacorax
Editat: maig 15, 2020, 2:10pm

>100 alaudacorax:

I know there's a two-volume three-volume set of all De La Mare's short stories and I've seen several selections of his supernatural stories,but does anyone know if a complete collection of his supernatural short stories exists?

ETA - I should say that I've had a search and can't find one.

102housefulofpaper
maig 15, 2020, 6:53pm

>100 alaudacorax:
I've just listened to it. It's a bit too subtle and Jamesian for me to be sure that I understood what it's about after just one hearing.

The blurb on the Radio 4 Extra website summarise the story as "A man recalls the love affair he witnessed as a child, and that will influence the rest of his life.", which would suggest a metaphorical haunting. Only that's not what I took away from the story.

I do have a big (31 story) Tartarus Press collection of de la Mare's uncanny (as they've styled it) fiction. That would allow in non-supernatural fiction but in fact "The Almond Tree" isn't included. On the other hand, it doesn't describe itself as a complete collection of uncanny (let alone 'ghost" or "supernatural" fiction. The book's called Strangers and Pilgrims. It was published back in 2007 and is out of print now. There are a handful of copies on Abebooks, but the prices range from high to astronomical.

103alaudacorax
maig 16, 2020, 3:21am

>102 housefulofpaper:

Yeah--even with the Kindle version of that three-book 'complete' the prices are rather steep (over £30) and 'The Almond Tree' did nothing to give me a taste for his non-supernatural fiction. All I took from it is some poor kid got himself saddled with a really unsatisfactory pair of parents: depressing, and I'd have switched off if I hadn't been waiting for some supernatural element to turn up. On the other hand, he's said to have written a hundred short stories; I'm getting the impression that a substantial portion were supernatural-themed; so I'm a bit reluctant to shell out for editions of only seven or thirteen stories (which are two I've seen).

I've been intending to hunt up his supernatural tales for a long, long time. I was thinking along the lines of getting a cheap, complete Kindle edition and, if I really liked them, buying nice hardbacks later. Not as straightforward as I'd imagined ...

Anyway, I've dipped deep into the wallet and shelled out 99p for sixteen stories. I'll see what I feel after them ...

104LolaWalser
Editat: maig 22, 2020, 3:10pm

French students--comment ça va?

Look what I found--a YT channel with classic horror movies dubbed in French--including such gems as the Rathbone Sherlock Holmes movies--and in fine resolution, it seems. So, assuming it's not geolocked, maybe it will be of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqlPJOorO4ZQPdwT-JKUdNw

Sherlock Holmes, La Femme en Vert

oooh:

La cité des morts

105frahealee
Editat: maig 23, 2020, 11:55am

>99 benbrainard8: Yes, I read your comments about past work experience, which likely endures a certain level of ptsd. My son is a military paramedic currently posted in the Maritimes, but he's on the cusp of his career, with no fallout yet, fingers crossed.

It was my eldest who tried to highlight the finer points for me of; science fiction, speculative fiction, horror, gothic, weird tales. I still struggle with the differences versus the overlaps, but love them all for unique reasons. He loves dystopia but I still struggle with that genre. Off and on it's okay, but way too bleak for my daughter to enjoy (special needs). She liked Red Riding Hood (2011) directed by Catherine Hardwicke, but that's as dark as she's willing to go. Zombies are not even in the mix. All ghosts welcome. I like my children holding me accountable, keeps me honest!

106alaudacorax
maig 23, 2020, 4:02pm

>104 LolaWalser:

Ta. Subscribed.

107LolaWalser
maig 23, 2020, 6:02pm

>106 alaudacorax:

You're most welcome.

I've just made a group for silent movies in general. I know we talked a lot about them here but it doesn't feel right to digress even more from the group's purpose away from the flimsiest excuses about "Gothic" or horror themes. All are welcome:

https://www.librarything.com/groups/thesilentscreen

108benbrainard8
Editat: maig 23, 2020, 11:59pm

Hello, I hope that your son is doing ok in his work/service, and isn't being adversely impacted by the COVID-19 situation. I'm sure that he's reached a level of skill and longevity in his field that hopefully he's not having any difficulties with adjusting, PTSD, etc.

I'm actually with you, there's quite a bit of overlap among the various types of literature, film, & music. But suppose that' part of the joy in discovering things, aspects, and learning. I'm always amazed by what I don't and didn't know. Yes, for me, ghost, vampires, & Lycans are welcome. But zombies, well, that'll take me some time. And of course there are some culturally specific scary things that I've run into....when I lived in Japan, I watched the original "Ringu" movie....whew, it's really scary!

Hope you have a enjoyable weekend. Right now I'm reading a large book of the collected/translated works of Arthur Rimbaud, then onto a book that has a large collection of Lovecraft that I've just bought, looking forward to it.

Best.

109frahealee
Editat: maig 26, 2020, 12:18pm

>108 benbrainard8: Yes, thank you, so far so good. I miss his logic and compassion, but am thankful others benefit from his instincts and training. He wanted to be a doctor but we couldn't afford more than one year of university. The Canadian Armed Forces stepped in to foot the bill, and this is where he landed. Six years minimum, so we shall see. He is 23 going on 40. =)

Last year, my Ray Bradbury 'creative non-fiction' book Green Shadows, White Whale, about crafting the script for Moby-Dick at John Huston's home in Ireland, surprisingly left me with Banshee fallout. Terrifying yet comical, which I love. Maybe it was his tone and writing-style but I still cannot seem to shake that particular scene in the story!

110benbrainard8
Editat: maig 27, 2020, 11:52am

Ah, that's very good. My younger brother did exactly same thing, using US Army to foot his medical school bills, then was on "inactive" reserve for a 10-year period. He's now a MD in Arizona. So it's a great way to do that. My own son is 16-going 25, he just applied to complete his last two years of high school at a 4-yr college nearby. He's very STEM oriented.

i really like Ray Bradbury. My boss who'd just retired convinced me to read Asimov, too, and suggested "The Foundation Trilogy".

I'd really like to find someone here in LT land who is brave enough to tackle Gothic in Sci-Fi or even "Speculative Sci-Fi"! Anyone out there?! I mean think of some of the really good, scary films out there, whether the original Alien, or more recently "Event Horizon", which I must admit scared me....And I'm sure that there are many older examples.

Cheers.

111LolaWalser
maig 27, 2020, 12:00pm

>110 benbrainard8:

I'd really like to find some out here in LT land who is brave enough to tackle Gothic in Sci-Fi or even "Speculative Sci-Fi"!

Interesting idea. We talked some about sf movies in the film threads here, but not systematically in relation to Gothic themes, just as the films came up. Quatermass (especially the original serials) and "space vampires" as in Bava's Planet of the vampires or Queen of Blood... I'm pretty sure Alien, or at least Giger's monster was discussed a few times in the past...

112housefulofpaper
maig 27, 2020, 5:36pm

>110 benbrainard8:

There's plenty of overlap between horror and science fiction, but teasing out the Gothic is going to be a bit more tricky. And, I would say, subjective.

I would second Lola's nomination of Quatermass (the TV serials over the films, - all four of them - with the caveat that only a third of the original serial still exists); Alien, space vampire films, agreed. Event Horizon. The first decade and a half of David Cronenberg's film career. About half of David Lynch's Dune. What about In the Mouth of Madness? It still strikes me as much "Philip K. Dickian" as "Lovecraftian". Choice episodes of The X-Files. Selected Doctor Who stories but particularly 1975-1977. I've pointed this out before, even the original Star Trek ... the first televised episode has a salt vampire disguised as one of Doctor McCoy's old flames.

113housefulofpaper
maig 27, 2020, 5:47pm

>110 benbrainard8:

I've seen "Speculative Fiction" used instead of "Science Fiction". I understand Harlan Ellison, for one, preferred it to Science Fiction. The ideating, I think, both to (try to) step away from being treated as a "genre" writer and also to allow fantasy/non-realistic touches - remembering that a large contingent of "SF" fandom want the S to stand for "Science" and the science to be correct.

Is Speculative Sci-Fi different to this? I don't think I'v seem this exact phrase before, but I haven't been keeping up with the changing fashions in SF since cyberpunk.

114LolaWalser
maig 27, 2020, 6:45pm

>112 housefulofpaper:

Heh, your Star Trek mention reminded me of that episode of Blakes 7--I think second of the first season?--with BRIAN BLESSED as the leader of a cult and Vila going, when he saw his mansion, "the architectural style is Early Maniac..." Somehow "early Maniac" definitely applies to many Gothic residences...

Speaking of B7, Servalan would have made a super Queen of the Vamps. Also, actual vampires in B7, the "mutos".

115housefulofpaper
maig 27, 2020, 6:53pm

>114 LolaWalser:

It's the third episode, "Cygnus Alpha". I know the first four episodes quite well because they were novelised in an opportunistic paperback from Sphere books and labelled "from the publisher of Star Wars"!

116LolaWalser
maig 27, 2020, 6:59pm

That's the one. The penal colony moon.

I have just the one B7 novel--maybe I'll showcase it with Sapphire & Steel and Space: 1999 paperbacks one of these days...

Ooo, Sapphire & Steel--now there's some food for Gothicky contemplation...

117pgmcc
maig 28, 2020, 5:30am

I was devastated at the end of B7. I just could not fathom how they could do that. I could not think of a future with no hope of Blake's Seven returning. I may even have shed a tear.

118frahealee
Editat: maig 28, 2020, 12:56pm

>110 benbrainard8:
>113 housefulofpaper:
My first encounter with speculative fiction was an interview with Margaret Atwood online, with her early laments about the novel The Blind Assassin. She wrote the award-winning book, published in 2000, to contain a science fiction story within the main plotline. In marketing the book, retailers placed it in sci-fi sections of their stores, and fans of pure sci-fi were ticked off about this and let her know in droves. This is why she adamantly describes her novel as speculative fiction. I agree, now having bought it, that booksellers back in the day were off the mark. Atwood often weaves her way through different genres, mostly for her own amusement so you never know exactly how it translates through a personal prism, until the deed is done. She is much more gothic than I initially expected, following the tradition of Robertson Davies, etc. Impossible without the vastness of landscape that is 'bred in the bone'.

119LolaWalser
maig 28, 2020, 12:26pm

>117 pgmcc:

But that kamikaze magnificence to the finale... 'twas a brilliant gesture. Actually, wouldn't you say it was pre-figured somehwat by the destruction of The Liberator? After that, anything could happen...

120LolaWalser
jul. 1, 2020, 9:51pm

The note I found in the (library) copy of the book on German Expressionist theatre I was reading the last few days:



I left it in for the next biblionaut after marking the date.

121alaudacorax
jul. 2, 2020, 4:27am

>120 LolaWalser:

Love you already, Dani---you've given me a warm feeling with my breakfast---great start to the day. I knew LT would be a better option that the news channel ...

122pgmcc
jul. 2, 2020, 4:36am

>120 LolaWalser:
That is fantastic.

123pgmcc
jul. 2, 2020, 4:36am

>119 LolaWalser: Do you think I did not shed a tear for The Liberator too? :-(((

124LolaWalser
jul. 2, 2020, 12:50pm

I'm glad y'all enjoyed the note--Dani did well!

Do you think I did not shed a tear for The Liberator too? :-(((

*sniffles* not just you...

125housefulofpaper
jul. 12, 2020, 5:21pm

Happy to report that a bat is flitting about over my back garden tonight.

126pgmcc
jul. 13, 2020, 4:19am

>125 housefulofpaper:

...and housefulofpaper was never heard from again.

127LolaWalser
jul. 13, 2020, 9:48am

But the bat population registered an uptick.

128alaudacorax
jul. 30, 2020, 3:20pm

I've just deleted the first few hundred words of this post---convoluted story that really wasn't interesting---but it ended up with me accidentally discovering Horror Theatre Internet Radio (horror-theatre.com).

It's brilliant. This chap in Atlanta has a collection of over 500 hours of 'very old' radio horror shows. I've just been listening to a mad scientist-type play called 'Beware of Tomorrow', apparently from a series called 'The Mysterious Traveller' which had a narrator-figure with a voice that sounds like a cross between Vincent Price and Valentine Dyall.

Anyway, if you can get it I'd recommend it.

129housefulofpaper
ag. 1, 2020, 5:52pm

>128 alaudacorax:

I wasn't aware of that site, but as these old shows are either out of copyright or in some sort of grey area, I have managed to hear quite a few over the past ten years or so, mostly via podcasts on iTunes. Not The Mysterious Traveler, though.

130alaudacorax
ag. 2, 2020, 3:43am

>129 housefulofpaper:

I discovered that the linking narrator on The Mysterious Traveler (yes, your spelling is the correct one) was Maurice Tarplin, of whom I'd never heard. I was quite convinced for a while it was Vincent Price doing a Valentine Dyall impression. Great voice, though.

131alaudacorax
Editat: ag. 2, 2020, 3:56am

>131 alaudacorax:

In fact, The Mysterious Traveler started just three months after Appointment with Fear so I suppose it's possible Tarplin was doing an impression of Dyall. Perhaps he threw in a bit of Vincent Price for good luck, but this was 1943 and Price had not long got started then. Which throws up the fascinating possibility that Price based some of his horror persona on Tarplin's Mysterious Traveller Traveler.

132housefulofpaper
ag. 2, 2020, 2:19pm

>131 alaudacorax:

I think it's doubtful that Maurice Tarplin heard Valentine Dyall as The Man in Black. The US was far ahead of the UK when it came to popular drama. The BBC tended towards the highbrow, or at least middlebrow, with the focus on one-off plays.

(Background, for anyone (blissfully) unaware of UK broadcasting history - the British Government tried to keep the radio waves free of music and speech entirely for the first couple of decades of the last century, the airwaves only to be used for radio telegraphy (ships' communication etc.). Commercial radio wasn't permitted to compete with the BBC until the early 1970s; hence the "pirate stations broadcasting from ships in international waters, and Radio Luxembourg broadcasting from, well, Luxembourg.)

The format for Appointment with Fear was sold to the BBC by John Dickson Carr as an export version of the US radio series Suspense. This wasn't the first US series with a "horror host". However the host of Suspense was, at least in the early days, named The Man in Black!

Vincent Price's acting career had been going for a while by 1943, His first professional stage appearance was with Orson Welles' Mercury Theatre in London, in 1934.

However, he did appear on Suspense, but the only credit I could find online was in 1946. Of course he would have been able to hear the earlier shows on broadcast. Maybe he took some inspiration from the original Man in Black?

In an interview, Dyall said he tried to inject an element of regret into his spoken introduction, as if his Man in Black had "done something foolish" in his past.

I hope that doesn't make me look too much of a know-all. I'll come clean on where I got my information from, anyway:

Wikipedia - entries on Vincent Price, Suspense, Radio telegraphy
"A Date with Dyall", BBC Radio 4 Extra (first broadcast Halloween 2015)

133alaudacorax
ag. 3, 2020, 5:37am

>132 housefulofpaper:

I'm always meaning to read more books on the history of cinema, actor's memoirs, and so forth ... and I forget all about radio.

I often forget how important radio was when I was young; and it must have been a much bigger thing in people's lives in the first half of the 20thC when screen was confined to a weekly trip to the cinema. And the US must have so much more history than we do in the UK, and very different.

And you can listen to radio horror in the dark ...

134alaudacorax
ag. 6, 2020, 6:27pm

“Listen to them—the children of the night. What music they make!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifGDsYTbMoc

135housefulofpaper
ag. 6, 2020, 6:56pm

>134 alaudacorax:

Ha, the Moon was actually framed in the window when I clicked the link.

136LolaWalser
Editat: ag. 16, 2020, 12:51pm

Aquest missatge ha estat suprimit pel seu autor.

137alaudacorax
set. 26, 2020, 9:09am

I visited Deadman's Bottom and Evil Combe this week.

Just come back from a week on Dartmoor and I've so been wanting to write the above sentence for this group (being very careful how I worded it), but I really have nothing interesting to say. There seems to be a sad lack of creepy, old legends. Well, Deadman's Bottom is quite interesting given the evidence of prehistoric cremation and burial, and the possibility an unknown dead man was once found there---https://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/dead_bottom.htm---but it was pretty unspectacular (so much so that when I got back to my cottage I realised I'd neglected to photograph it for my holiday journal), and 'Evil' is either an old word for a tin-miner's iron pick or an old word for 'little water'.

I really should have just made something up, shouldn't I? I suppose one can't get away with that kind of thing in the days of the internet. Oh well ...

138Julie_in_the_Library
set. 26, 2020, 11:16am

>133 alaudacorax: I'm not so sure I want to listen to horror radio in the dark...

139LolaWalser
set. 26, 2020, 4:43pm

>138 Julie_in_the_Library:

That's half the fun... I imagine.

>137 alaudacorax:

Love those names.

I'm not doing anything remotely Gothicky. Well, maybe the parallel binge-watch of Buffy and Angel in the evenings counts some...

140Julie_in_the_Library
set. 26, 2020, 5:00pm

>139 LolaWalser: I moved out of my parents' house and into a condo by myself for the first time five months ago. (I'm a bit of a late bloomer in certain ways. I'll be thirty in January.) I have never in my entire life lived entirely alone before; even when I had no roommate in college, I always had apartment-mates. I think it'll be a little while before I'm ready for horror in the dark, given the circumstances. Maybe if I invite a friend over to stay...That said, I do see the appeal.

141LolaWalser
set. 26, 2020, 9:48pm

>140 Julie_in_the_Library:

Not to worry, not only do plenty of people in their thirties and forties still live with their parents, it would seem that's a growing trend.

I'm only a qualified horror fan myself... anything "realistically" scary I'd probably avoid altogether or, as with most of modern horror, take in on a brightly-lit morning.

Although someone once theorised to me about this along the lines that the really fervent fans of horror, gore etc. are the ones most deeply traumatised by horror and therefore need strong stuff to exorcise their fears.

142housefulofpaper
set. 27, 2020, 5:57pm

I'm back in the UK after a week in France - the Vosges and a day trip to Strasbourg, again. There wasn't really anything Gothic about my trip either. Strasbourg presented a friendly face of good food and a love of comic books (the Francophone Bandes dessinées (BD)), while the grapes were being harvested in the vineyards around Barr. There may have been a story involving Druids or Bandits connected to a rock formation in walked to in the trees of one of the lower slopes (I took care not to get lost, this time), but I didn't hear any specifics. The moon rose above a church in Mittelbergheim as I walked my host's dog in the evening, but it was far more beautiful than spooky.

The journey back was in the back of a car, rather than by train across the rather flat middle of France, and we did speed though what the original 18th Century Gothic writers would have surely considered Sublime scenery. Heading north and then west too us through France, Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium and finally (Northern) France again. We stopped briefly at Ostend. The sea was pretty rough but "sublime" might be pushing it. Daughters of Darkness was filmed in Ostend...Nah, it was all lovely really, and I can't pretend otherwise...

143housefulofpaper
set. 29, 2020, 5:24pm

I thought this might be of interest: a list of Fantastique books at the back of a 1970s French (or Belgian? probable, given the sheer amount of Jean Ray in the list) paperback.

There are no names that I haven't heard of or read about on this first page, although I have to confess to recalling no details about either Claude Seignolle or A. Pieyre de Mandiargues.

I own, and have read, an English translation of Sortiléges (Spells). One of the stories was discussed over in The Weird Tradition group. Ghelderode was a Belgian author and dramatist.

Re. the majority of Jean Ray titles in the list, "Harry Dickson" is a character with an interesting history. His origin is in German counterfeit Sherlock Holmes stories. Over time enough changes were made to avoid legal problems. When Ray was hired to translate the stories he declared them so bad that he would simply write new ones, which he did with the proviso that the original German magazine cover image would match the new tale. The stories he wrote were apparently much more in the Pulpy, Weird Crime style than the Holmes stories, which explains why they're in this list.

I've got a couple of Paul Féval books but haven't read them yet. Apparently they also take a relaxed view about copyright (or at least about appropriating other authors characters).

-

Another eclectic mix of authors on the next page. Yet another Belgian is Thomas Owen. He was a prolific author although little seems to be available in English. I have a collection of selected stories from Tartarus Press. He was a friend of Jean Ray and also the Spanish film Director José Ramón Larraz, who cites him as an influence in more than one interview. Some Francophone authors that I don't know in the list, and probably not available in translation. Interesting that there is, or was, a "Prix Jean Ray".

Donald Wandrei stands out in the list as an American, and one of the Weird Tales crowd (indeed, he set up Arkham House with August Derleth to keep H P Lovecraft in print and it went on to republish him and other WT authors, as well as new ones, and furnished titles for the paperback explosion of the 60s and 70s, in the US and UK.

Robert Bloch of course began his career as a Lovecraft acolyte but is best remembered now for Psycho.

Evangeline Walton was also a Weird Tales author. Her Witch House was republished by Centipde Press a few years ago. Ethel Mannin's Lucifer and the Child was republished by Swan River Press just this year.

One would assume that Kingsley Amis and Isaac Bashevis Singer would have preferred not to be included in a "genre" list.

-

Two names stand out (for me) here. Arthur Machen is an author who has dipped below the radar several times since he started writing in the late 19th Century. Having been around for his latest resurrection (mainly due to the Tartarus Press) after near oblivion in the 190s it's a surprise to see popular paperback editions from the '70s and '80s. And Dennis Wheatley of course who was still massive in the UK in the 1970s but has almost disappeared now. I wondered how well known he was overseas - he didn't seem to have made much impact in the US (judging by The Weird Tradition's lack of interest/lack of access to his works). The Haunting of Toby Jugg, at least , made it across La Manche.

-

144LolaWalser
Editat: oct. 1, 2020, 9:17pm

>142 housefulofpaper:

Seething with envy. Feeling entombed for a century now...

>143 housefulofpaper:

Tell us if you discover new favourites. I don't recall Seignolle, or the female authors; most of the others are familiar...

I was going to post this as an aside to the post in Folk Horror but there's really no excuse for it there, so under gossip it goes:

Aside: Speaking of which, and not to digress too much, but since I mentioned immigration and you music, I've been listening this week to six CDs with the overall title "London Is The Place For Me", a compilation of the 1950s/60s ++? Caribbean and African musicians' output in Britain (well, London primarily)--calypso, reggae etc. The texts are surprisingly often political, about the problems of the immigrants, racism, work, rationing, colonialism... but, you know, set to a dancy beat. :) Sample titles: Birth of Ghana, If You're Not White You're Black, Mix-Up Matrimony, I Was There (at the Coronation), I Am A Stranger etc. It seems CDs 7 & 8 have just been issued.

(My favourite: Patricia Gone With Millicent :))

https://honestjons.com/shop/artist/London_Is_The_Place_For_Me

145alaudacorax
oct. 2, 2020, 3:37am

>144 LolaWalser:

I remember calypso being a big thing when I was a boy---records in the hit parade and so on. It's an odd thing, though, that most of my adult life, when I've heard radio or television playing old records, or 'nostalgia shows' for different years, it's been as if pop music started with the Beatles and the Stones---everything before the mid-sixties seemed to have just been forgotten about. I did see a documentary within the last year or two about the birth of British rock and roll and they featured performers and songs I hadn't heard since childhood, but there was a much wider range than that in the charts in those days--including calypso, of course.

146LolaWalser
oct. 2, 2020, 4:55pm

>145 alaudacorax:

For me these CDs were a complete revelation. All I knew about even the existence of some Jamaican (et al.) "scene" in the UK (I imagine it wasn't just in London?) came from a couple of movies... Dearden's Sapphire and All night long... some glimpses in old TV...

147Julie_in_the_Library
oct. 4, 2020, 10:55am

I came across a link to the British Library's Flickr account last night on the NANOWRIMO forums. I went to look for some inspirational images to help me solidify my Nano idea into an actual plot (no luck yet, but it's only October 4) and found two albums that I knew I had to share with you all:

Ghosts and Ghoulish Scenes from The British Library

Myths and Creatures Images from the British Library

The images are all high-quality scans, and come complete with attribution, source, and copyright status information. I ended up staying up an hour later than I meant to just scrolling through the different albums; it's all so fascinating. And if anyone ever needs a map, they need look no further. There are more albums of maps on this flickr than I've ever seen in one place. :D

I tried to add some example images in this post, but I can't get the image location by right-clicking. I'm guessing that's to do with it being on flickr. But go take a look. There's some absolutely fascinating stuff there. (Just make sure you've got nothing in your oven or on your schedule for a while before you click the link. This page is as much a black hole as TV Tropes, maybe more, depending on the person. :D)

148LolaWalser
oct. 4, 2020, 8:49pm

>147 Julie_in_the_Library:

That was great, thanks.

It reminded me of the graphic and other collections on Gallica.fr I was exploring recently--I started with vintage animation and ended with the collection of Gothic novels:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/html/und/litteratures/le-roman-gothique?mode=desktop

(I think the site is switchable to English if needed... oh yes, upper right corner)

149Julie_in_the_Library
oct. 5, 2020, 5:12pm

>148 LolaWalser: ooh, that looks interesting. Thanks for sharing!

150alaudacorax
oct. 6, 2020, 8:08am

Interesting. By coincidence, I've just, in the last day or two, installed a piece of software that should (haven't thoroughly explored it yet) let me use at least the flickr links for a slide show of desktop backgrounds. Not sure that I actually want Gothic images rotating on my desktop, but that's by the way ...

151alaudacorax
nov. 13, 2020, 4:42am

Happy Friday the thirteenth, everybody!!!

Think I'll get a bottle of wine to go with dinner on a tray and a horror film this evening.

152housefulofpaper
nov. 13, 2020, 6:11pm

>151 alaudacorax:

I saw your message this morning just as the rainclouds cleared and some late autumn sunshine made everything look considerably less gothic and gloomy. I thought maybe I wouldn't be in the mood for a horror film today.

Of course it's dark now, it was dark by 5:00 pm and I am, in the event, watching a horror film. It's the recent remake of Suspiria. The film cropped up in a recent discussion and reminded me that it's set in Freiburg im Breisgau (but not filmed there). It's the only German city I've visited to date, so I feel an (entirely spurious) connection!

The new version is set in Berlin.

153pgmcc
nov. 13, 2020, 6:36pm

I had the pleasure of having M R James on-line tonight telling me his story of The Mezzontint, courtesy of Nunkie Productions with Robert Lloyd Perry in the role of M R James. Nunkie has been doing a series of these on-line sessions during the pandemic. Probably not as scary as the horror stories you have been watching, but a lovely cosy horror tale.

154alaudacorax
nov. 14, 2020, 5:41am

>152 housefulofpaper:

I failed to watch a horror film last night.

I tried to watch Blood for Dracula (https://www.librarything.com/topic/316858#7311805) last night but only got about half an hour in. I mean to watch it right through---I thought the mise-en-scène, at least, terrific. Last night, though, the simplistic, totally uninspired dialogue and 'bad local amateur dramatic society' delivery were driving me up the wall. Probably because I didn't get that bottle of wine--you really need at least half a bottle before you start watching this ...

155LolaWalser
nov. 14, 2020, 1:16pm

>154 alaudacorax:

simplistic, totally uninspired dialogue and 'bad local amateur dramatic society' delivery

Ha, yes. I think some of the girls were probably, er, erotic artistes (and dubbed), and Joe Dallesandro... has abs? Although I wondered if his deadpan delivery wasn't something deliberate, it reminded me of Warhol's movies... not that this, apparently, had anything to do with Warhol except associatively, thanks to Dallesandro's casting.

But if you stop at half hour you're missing all the gore and the sex, ergo the movie. :)

156alaudacorax
nov. 15, 2020, 3:39am

>155 LolaWalser: - But if you stop at half hour you're missing all the gore and the sex, ergo the movie.:)

Oh well ... but it's going to have to be a full-size bottle of wine, not a half-size ...

157alaudacorax
nov. 17, 2020, 7:59pm

I would very much like to kill somebody connected with YouTube ... bloodily and painfully.

I've been listening to one of 'Nunkie's (Robert Lloyd Parry—mentioned several times in this group) clips on YT. This was a real discovery: Randalls Round by Eleanor Scott. I thought it was tremendous.

But ... having listened to it, I lay back in my chair and closed my eyes to think it over ...

... only to have a clip of Trump's last election rally start automatically. What the hell, YouTube? Are you trying to get disembowelled with a garden fork?

Some background ... I was able to play a clip by Tuba Skinny and then go into my kitchen, wash some dishes, and prepare and cook a really good meal, took me perhaps half an hour, and YouTube's 'autoplay' fed me a succession of Tuba Skinny clips all the way through till I was ready to sit down with my meal and go on to something else. I'd also opened my first bottle of wine in weeks, if not months, drinking the first glass while washing and chopping and stir-frying and so on (and I have really big wine glasses). It was looking to be a really blissfull evening. I wasn't even fazed by being completely unable to bear another five minutes of Blood for Dracula's appalling dialogue and delivery (obviously not far enough into the bottle of wine), which was why I was listening to Nunkie.

And then YouTube puts on the farting duck? I mean, what the hell have I done to make YouTube's algorithms think I'd want to watch that? Completely shattered my mood.

158alaudacorax
nov. 17, 2020, 8:26pm

>157 alaudacorax:

It's a sod. I'd really like to move on, but my wine's all gone and all my brain seems to want to do is compose paragraphs and paragraphs of really sour LT posts ...

159pgmcc
nov. 18, 2020, 2:54am

>158 alaudacorax: I feel your pain.

160alaudacorax
nov. 18, 2020, 3:14am

>159 pgmcc:

Ha! You got here before me. I just logged-in to delete >157 alaudacorax: & >158 alaudacorax:. Too much wine last night ...

161pgmcc
nov. 18, 2020, 4:05am

>160 alaudacorax: Too much wine = honest feelings. :-)

Of course, I hope your >150 alaudacorax: post is not taken too literally by the Guardian Algorithms of the Interweb.

162LolaWalser
nov. 18, 2020, 7:46pm

>157 alaudacorax:

Awk! I hope you've recovered... funnily enough I had a similar experience today--was watching a lovely video about a flock of flamingos in Kazakhstan, only to have it ruined at the end with a frame-in-frame thumbnail teaser with the orange mofo. Great way to ensure I won't be subbing, Reuters! :)

163LolaWalser
Editat: nov. 18, 2020, 7:47pm

sigh, double...

164housefulofpaper
nov. 21, 2020, 2:26pm

Those frame-in-frame thumbnails, popping up nearly half a minute before the end of the clip, sometimes covering up something important. They certainly don't make me want to clip on the whatever-it-is. Do they disappear if you pay for Youtube Premium (not that I have any intention of doing so).

165LolaWalser
nov. 21, 2020, 3:16pm

I don't have Premium either, so no idea... but speaking of YT, they recently sent out an e-mail about changing stuff so they can (as far as I could make out) stick you with even more ads. When/if the adblocker goes, so go I...

166housefulofpaper
nov. 21, 2020, 5:57pm

>165 LolaWalser:
Despite my better instincts I can't keep away from it. The TBR pile grows and grows, but I'm watching video essays to update my dinosaur knowledge, or finding uploaders with huge stashes of 40-year-old British television that they want to share...

167housefulofpaper
nov. 21, 2020, 6:03pm

Last weekend an old school friend who now lives in North Oxfordshire, posted some photos of a longish walk he took in the countryside. He included the ruined Norman Church at Bix Bottom, i.e. the location used in The Blood on Satan's Claw for the murder of Cathy (and harvesting the skin from her back) and the Squire's despatching of the Beast at the end of the film.

He had no idea that the site had any Gothic or Folk Horror connection.

168LolaWalser
nov. 21, 2020, 6:27pm

>167 housefulofpaper:

the murder of Cathy (and harvesting the skin from her back)

There should be plaques! National Trust, are you listening?! :)

>166 housefulofpaper:

Same. Except most recently, it was a channel with hundreds of old French cinema. I had about 120-130 in my Watch Later for several weeks... then they zapped him. He (I'm fairly sure it was the same person) resurfaced a week or so later and I added them all again (taking the pains to order them all chronologically, 1930s through 1970s). This time I managed to see about eight--but today they were all gone. Tons of Jouvet, Rosay, Berry, Fresnay, Simon, Meurisse... stuff it's hard to find in any form. I hope this YT Robin Hood manages to return soon.

YT doesn't even leave the trace of the deleted channels anymore, they disappear from the subscription list. Very upsetting; one could at least search for similar, once upon a time.

169alaudacorax
nov. 29, 2020, 8:34am

Just been delighted to discover there's a new issue of the Irish Journal of Gothic and Horror Studies online. I was afraid it had become moribund.

There are some really tempting-looking articles in it, too. Though I'm probably going to need a dictionary or Wikipedia to get through 'Gods of the Real: Lovecraftian Horror and Dialectical Materialism' ...

170alaudacorax
des. 8, 2020, 6:38am

You know when you have to tick the cookery books to complete your LibraryThing login?

I think it was a bit mischievous of LT to chuck Blood and Chocolate in there ...

171housefulofpaper
des. 8, 2020, 7:13am

>170 alaudacorax:

Ha! This will be stuck in my head for the rest of the day, now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a91_uGPR9_o

172LolaWalser
des. 20, 2020, 7:26pm

This is probably coals to Newcastle, but just in case... two Sherlock Holmes TV rarities I don't recall were mentioned here (apologies if this is incorrect, in which case I've failed to search properly...)

The quality of this one is poor but it's Peter Cushing! as Holmes in 1984, with John Mills as his Watson:

Sherlock Holmes: The Masks of Death – 1984 TV Movie Starring Peter Cushing and John Mills

Anton Diffring shows too, Russell Hunter (who I know from Callan) has a cameo and, prize for the "most out of left field" appearance IMO, Ray Milland.

This next one, from 1990, I haven't watched yet but (speaking of actors from Callan) Holmes is... Edward Woodward! Odd, huh? Cast includes Peter Jeffrey and Warren Clarke...

Sherlock Holmes in The Prince of Crime; AKA - Hands of a Murderer - starring Edward Woodward

173housefulofpaper
des. 20, 2020, 8:43pm

>172 LolaWalser:

I knew of the Peter Cushing TVM but I haven't ever seen it. I wasn't even aware of the Edward Woodward film. Thank you, that might be my Christmas Day viewing sorted (I'm in "Tier 4" which is essentially back to Lockdown, and will be Home Alone as a consequence).

On the subject of unlikely Holmeses, I haven't seen this one yet, but Roger Moore! as Holmes, with Patrick Macnee as Watson, John Huston as Moriarty, Charotte Rampling as Irene Adler:
Sherlock Holmes in New York (1976):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K3Nwdg9x3w

174LolaWalser
des. 20, 2020, 9:06pm

>173 housefulofpaper:

Wow, clearly there are oodles more Holmes interpretations than I ever imagined. Thanks for the link. The uploads I linked I noticed only a few days ago in my recommendations--possibly because I'd started watching some eps with Geoffrey Whitehead. Now, those were produced by the same chap who did the Ronald Howard series in the fifties--even the music is the same. Patrick Newell, much slimmer than in The Avengers, plays Inspector Lestrade looking very much like a copy of the 1950s actor (not all the names stayed with me). Anyway, that's another interesting bit of televisual Sherlockiana...

175alaudacorax
des. 21, 2020, 6:24am

>174 LolaWalser: - Wow, clearly there are oodles more Holmes interpretations than I ever imagined.

Yep. Not sure I've ever seen or ever heard of any of them. I'd be particularly intrigued to see the Woodward and Moore versions.

176LolaWalser
des. 21, 2020, 12:54pm

>175 alaudacorax:

If it weren't an odd choice for this group, we could synchronise some viewings and have us a Very Sherlock Christmas...

177alaudacorax
des. 25, 2020, 4:42am

Merry Christmas or midwinter festival of your choice, everybody!!!

178housefulofpaper
des. 25, 2020, 6:41am

Merry Christmas!

179LolaWalser
des. 25, 2020, 10:08am

180alaudacorax
des. 25, 2020, 10:43am

>179 LolaWalser:

Merry Christmas, Lola.

Astonishingly clear footage---look at the faces.

I remember snowball fights like that. And almost crying with the pain when our fingers thawed out in front of the fire later. When we were kids, though, we would've 'ad that cameraman, and those two chaps looking-on. Oh lord, it's just dawned on me---no kids! Hmm. I'd assumed it was staged, but ... would all the local kids have been in school in 1897?

181LolaWalser
des. 25, 2020, 11:15am

It's been cleaned up, colourised (and set to rather annoying music, IMO) by the Youtuber, but you can see and compare the original item here:

https://catalogue-lumiere.com/bataille-de-neige/

Judging by the photos I've seen snow once in my childhood, on a visit to Troodos. I have no memory of it myself, although I am actually clutching a snowball. Incidentally, I'm in the company of an English boy, Simon, who has an arm around me. We were frequent playmates. Naturally he went down in family history as my first "boyfriend". I'm under four, he's about seven.

Then nothing (snow-wise) until high school and our annual skiing trips to Slovenia and Italy.

182benbrainard8
Editat: des. 26, 2020, 10:12pm

Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year to you all, from the rainy NW.

My (now retired) boss had lent me Murder by Decree , 1979, with Christopher Plummer as Sherlock, and told me it was one of his favourites---he said he's a fan of James Mason. My boss had grown up in L.A., and described to me the way the movie theaters would throw all-out productions of new releases, e.g. Lawrence of Arabia.

Out of curiosity, do you all like the BBC Sherlock that have Benedict Cumberbatch? I'm just curious if they're as popular in England/UK as they seem to be here the States.

And, I've been perusing, wow, there are so many. What's a good starter--any of the older BBC productions? Any particular actors that really stand out in either Sherlock or Watson roles?

I hope you all are safe and well.

183alaudacorax
des. 27, 2020, 6:03am

>182 benbrainard8:

Don't think I've seen that one either, though I have some vague idea of it. But that's an impressive cast list. Another one I'm really tempted by.

I did watch some of the TV series---after some previous discussion here, if I remember correctly. Entertaining but they didn't prompt me to stick with them. Perhaps I'll get around to the rest sometime, but I'm much more interested in all these films so far.

I have to make a confession (possibly I've made it here before). I vaguely remember reading and enjoying the Sherlock Holmes stories as a youngster. However, I've bought a 'complete' in recent years and read through it, and I really wasn't very impressed. Couldn't really believe in him. That's probably why I haven't seen most of these films, although I've seen all the Basil Rathbone ones. But screen is different to page so I must get round to watching them.

184housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 8:33am

No snow here. Heavy rain last night but clear blue skies over Christmas and again today. I don't think we've even seen an early morning frost yet.

That naturally leads to worries about Global warming, but I read recently somewhere that the traditional Dickensian snowy Christmas is due to Dickens' memories of unusually bad winters in his childhood. They were the after-effects of the Mount Tambora eruption that also caused the "Year Without a Summer" and there's the Gothic tie-in, because that was the summer the Shelleys, Byron snd Polidori were holed up in the Villa Diodati inventing Frankenstein and the modern literary vampire.

185housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 10:14am

Sherlock Holmes, though. Asked for recommendations I would veer towards the faithful adaptations of the original stories, but >183 alaudacorax: opens up the field of looser adaptations and reimaginings.

On the faithful adaptation side, can I suggest a couple of audio versions?

In the 1950s and '60s Carleton Hobbs and Norman Shelley played Holmes and Watson on BBC Radio. Shelley is ia bufferish Nigel Bruce-style Watson. Hobbs had a distinctive reedy tone to his voice which I think matches Doyle's description of Holmes' voice.

Some (maybe all) episodes have been uploaded to YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfyM1wvboD8&list=PL6YhtbHzsDtS0hEeqHjvvyBLI2...

186housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 10:34am

And then the BBC radio series from the 1990s that succeeded in adapting all the novels and short stories. Holmes was played by Clive Merrison and Michael Williams played Watson. This followed the Jeremy Brett TV series in "rehabilitating" Dr Watson as a strong character in his own right, and one not unwilling to butt heads with Holmes at times.

The TV series with Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman, and the two films with Robert Downey Jr and Jude Law, took the same approach.

It looks as if some of these are saved at Internet archive (Archive.org).

187housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 11:07am

Basil Rathbone is still many people's favourite Holmes and although some distance from the Watson of the stories, Nigel Bruce is an effective foil to Rathbone's Holmes (sorry, can only think in clichés today it seems).

The series started quite faithful to the stories but when it moved Universal the rest of the films were set in the (1940s) modern day, Rathbone sported a weird centre-parting hairstyle, and the films were essentially WWII propaganda with elements of Universal's horror series and Film Noir. You can spot bits and pieces from the stories being reworked.

Peter Cushing played Holmes in Hammer's version of The Hound of the Baskervilles and for BBC television in the late '60s. And finally in the TV Movie The Masks of Death in 1984 (the writer and director are ex-Hammer personnel, I see from IMDb).

I think some of the TV episodes are lost, but there was a Region 2 DVD release about 10 years ago.

The Cushing version of the Christmas story "The Blue Carbuncle":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAPWPDL9aMU

188housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 11:17am

Peter Cushing actually took over as the BBC's Sherlock Holmes when Douglas Wilmer left after one series. His episodes were almost impossible to see for decades, but the surviving ones are now out on DVD. Nevertheless all I could find on YouTube was this clip from a 1987 "Food and Drink", where footage of Wilmer as Holmes (and Nigel Stock as Watson - he stayed on to work alongside Peter Cushing) are cut into footage of presenter Chris Kelly - or rather he's cut into a scene they shot 2 decades earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3SZLSAu-uE

I saw from the comments that there has been a Region 1 release, but the Region 2 BFI set is superior.

189housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 12:18pm





I saw this play, but in Guildford rather than in London.

Jeremy Brett is many people's definitive Holmes, and the Granada TV series was probably more accurate than any before it (for example, Holmes only wears a deerstalker in the country, never "in Town").

He had two Dr Watsons of course - it was David Burke in the first series. Edward Hardwicke is just a little bit more towards the Nigel Bruce end of the Watson scale (who's be at the other end? Jude Law I suppose).

As television, the series is showing its age a bit now. And the last stories and TV movies are compromised by various issues - a reduced budget, arguably the best stories having already been done, but chiefly by Jeremy Brett's failing health. For one story he was hospitalised I believe, and Charles Gray (as Mycroft) had to take over as the lead. But one thing the production team did that ought to make the later stories attractive to this group is to ramp up the Gothic and/or fin de siècle elements - at least that's how i remember it, although looking at IMDb the very last series seems to be reining those Gothic tendencies back in.

190LolaWalser
Editat: des. 27, 2020, 12:29pm

Not sure whether this will work... I just did a search on "sherlock holmes" in the group and up came 34 links:

https://www.librarything.com/search.php?search=sherlock+holmes&searchtype=ta...

Experience teaches that LT search is VERY iffy so this is probably not a complete list. With that in mind, note the oldest post is houseful's from 2012:

https://www.librarything.com/topic/130460#3166371

>182 benbrainard8:

If you haven't seen any of the older Sherlocks, I'd recommend to take in the Granada 1980s production with Jeremy Brett. In terms of "faithfulness" they have probably not been bested. Brett's performance is one for the ages and the only one where Holmes is given some psychological depth and seems like a real person.

If you don't mind B&W movies, the Rathbone series is great fun although, as houseful notes, veeres away from the original quite a bit.

>183 alaudacorax:

I've bought a 'complete' in recent years and read through it, and I really wasn't very impressed. Couldn't really believe in him.

I get this. No wonder Conan Doyle was exasperated to be forced to write on and on for such a character.

191housefulofpaper
Editat: des. 27, 2020, 2:34pm

I'm sure I've said this before here, so it's probably in one of the links Lola found in >190 LolaWalser:, but I was initially very impressed and entertained by the Benedict Cumberbatch Holmes, but had a concern that Stephen Moffatt and Mark Gatiss were burning through the source material (getting from adaptations of A Study in Scarlet to "The Final Problem" in the space of three TV movies) at such a pace that they would find themselves with nowhere to go very quickly. And I think that concern was largely borne out.

The later episodes got a bit of a rocky reception and I found myself comparing and contrasting Sherlock and the Doctor Who stories running at roughly the same time (Stephen Moffatt being the show runner on both programmes and evidently working through a small number of themes in his work at this time) rather than being 100% caught up in the story - which would be preferable I think, at least on a first viewing.

Sherlock takes the discussion away from the straight adaptations of Doyle's stories and I think I have to disagree with Lola's assertion that the Jeremy Brett series is the only version to try to give Holmes any psychological depth. I would say that most of the screen Holmes since Billy Wilder's The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes - unless they have made a point of fidelity to the source material - have made that either the point of the story or an important element of it. The Seven Percent Solution (Holmes needs psycho analysis); Young Sherlock Holmes formative events in adolescence & first love & events that put him on his career path as a Consulting Detective); Mr Holmes; Sherlock; the two Robert Downey Jr films (arguably, there are more character tics than depth there; they are Guy Richie films after all); even Roger Moore in Sherlock Holmes in New York . Even the two early 21st century BBC movies written by Alan Cubitt (a Hound of the Baskervilles starring Richard Roxburgh and an original story starring Rupert Everett), as I remember it, played up Holmes' obsessional nature and drug dependency to "explain" his character and behaviour.

192housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 2:34pm

Touchstones have stopped working!

193alaudacorax
des. 27, 2020, 2:35pm

Okay, you've all prompted me to have a Sherlock evening, à la >176 LolaWalser:.

I've just started with The Blue Carbuncle, the Cushing and Stock one somebody linked above.

Thoroughly enjoyed it. It's not about the story, really, it's about Peter Cushing. Not sure if it's that he was a better actor than really given credit for, or simply down to his sheer screen presence. You just surrender your critical faculties and go along with him.

An odd little thing I noticed, with poor old James Beck from Dad's Army as the cornered and really amateurish villain in Holmes and Watson's digs: if I were a baddy, I really wouldn't want Nigel Stock glaring at me across the room like that. He played Watson ever so slightly Nigel Bruce-ish, but the man had a definite seam of steel running through him.

Now onto The Masks of Death.

194housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 2:41pm

The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes (1970)
The Seven Per Cent Solution (1976)
Sherlock Holmes in New York (TVM) (1976)
Young Sherlock Holmes(1985)
The Hound of the Baskervilles (TVM) (2002)
Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Silk Stocking (TVM) (2004)
Sherlock (TV) (2010-2017)
Sherlock Holmes (2009)
Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows (2011)
Mr Holmes (2015)

I forgot the US counterpart to Sherlock, Elementary (2012-2019)

195benbrainard8
Editat: des. 27, 2020, 3:02pm

Thank you all, I've put the Basil Rathbone Hound of the Baskervilles, 1939, and two BBC 3-DVD collection with Peter Cushing and Nigel Stock, it appears to have year of release 1964-1965 and a second series, 1968, into my Netflix queue. The Jeremy Brett (1984-1994 as Sherlock Holmes in the 4 Granada T.V. series, approx. 41 episodes) isn't available on Netflix but I can hopefully rent it on Prime so will keep on my radar.

Perhaps luckily or unluckily, I've never read the books---I'll have to judge them on their merits alone.

Radio series sound interesting, too, thank you all for the information!

Seattle and it's areas are next to the Puget Sound, so we get a lot of snow in our respective mountain ranges (Olympics and Cascades)----at my 900-1100 ft. elevation where I'm at, we get a lot of rain, and sunset at 4:30 p.m. daily. We do enjoy these times though---- great weather for day hikes/walks, reading, & movie watching :)

Best to you all.

196housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 2:56pm

>195 benbrainard8:

Douglas Wilmer played Holmes in 1964-65 and Peter Cushing took over in 1968, so it sounds like you'll be able to watch both actors' take on the role!

197LolaWalser
des. 27, 2020, 3:08pm

>191 housefulofpaper:

I wondered whether to mention Robert Stephens but in my recollection the film is too much of a farce-fantasy, plus I'm not fond of Holmes being in love. In any case, it's not difficult to qualify my opinion as I haven't seen everything you mention. But of those I did, comparisons only strengthen my impression of the uniqueness of Brett's performance (obviously tho', it's not binding for anyone else!)

Brett's achievement in projecting a Holmes with an inner life (inner demons, it seems) is all the greater as they stuck to the script and didn't invent something to latch this on (love, trauma etc.), as is usually the case.

>193 alaudacorax:

Too bad about the poor technical quality.

>195 benbrainard8:

There are a few of the Brett episodes in good quality on YouTube... just in case.

198housefulofpaper
des. 27, 2020, 3:22pm

>197 LolaWalser:
Ah, right. Given some psychological depth by the actor's performance, not (necessarily) by the script.

Your observations (love, trauma, etc.) do apply to all the examples I gave!

The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes might have been stronger if the studio hadn't lopped an entire sub-plot/episode out of it - it would have made for a very long film, though.

199LolaWalser
des. 27, 2020, 3:34pm

>198 housefulofpaper:

Yes, I think we talked about that... I do love that film--I'm not a "purist" by any means...

I think I'll stick on a Brett eppy or two now... but before I go--I probably mentioned this before, but not sure if I linked it--for the Holmesian who has SEEN EVERYTHING, here's a Russian version from 1979 (English subs provided):

Шерлок Холмс и доктор Ватсон

200alaudacorax
des. 27, 2020, 4:41pm

Just watched the The Masks of Death.

A bit sad at seeing Peter Cushing so aged since The Blue Carbuncle and at seeing Ray Milland simply looking unwell.

Quite distracted at continually hearing nightingales at the Graf's country estate. I couldn't make up my mind if they'd been added to the soundtrack or the place was actually full of them.

Big BUT ... too many holes in the writing.

And that's enough for tonight, I think.

201alaudacorax
des. 31, 2020, 7:18pm

Happy New Year, everybody!

And sod off, 2020---close the door on your way out.

202LolaWalser
des. 31, 2020, 7:37pm

Happy new year!

203housefulofpaper
des. 31, 2020, 8:04pm

Happy New Year!

204benbrainard8
des. 31, 2020, 8:46pm

Happy New Year to you all!

205Julie_in_the_Library
gen. 1, 1:05pm

Happy New Year!

206housefulofpaper
gen. 2, 6:35pm

A suitably wintry image from a New Year's Day walk. Suitably Gothic too, I hope.

207pgmcc
gen. 2, 7:04pm

208LolaWalser
gen. 3, 1:51pm

Oh yes, dix points for Gothic-ness.

209LolaWalser
Editat: gen. 3, 1:52pm

(whyyyyydoesitdoublewhyyy)

210housefulofpaper
gen. 3, 6:22pm

Thanks to you both. It's a real shame there's no way to show you the photos uploaded to Facebook by the person who walked to Bix Bottom and thereby visited the abandoned church from Blood on Satan's Claw. He's put up some more photos of walks around the Oxfordshire countryside and produced a couple you'd swear were stills from a forgotten 1970s Folk Horror classic. A church, shot from a low angle against an overcast white winter afternoon sky that's already blurring into the rising evening mist, and a sinister-looking farm building, roofline sagging with age and all the ground-floor windows boarded up.

He's listed the route of his walk as "Nuffield to Mongewell via Grim's Ditch". I mean, even the names...

211Julie_in_the_Library
gen. 3, 6:26pm

That is a gorgeous photo.

212housefulofpaper
gen. 3, 8:51pm

A late Christmas present! Some short clips from missing episodes of the Peter Cushing/Nigel Stock Sherlock Holmes TV series have been found. Presented here colourised and interwoven with an interview Cushing gave for Dutch TV in 1971.The whole thing's about nine minutes long:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiRAIhq0GG8&feature=emb_logo

213Julie_in_the_Library
Editat: gen. 4, 10:20am

Hi everyone,

I've mentioned the Rural Gothic virtual conferences I've been attending here before, and I know that some of you have expressed interest, so I thought that I'd mention that there's another one coming up the weekend of February 6 and 7, this time focused on queer themes.

Times are not listed yet, but past conferences have run from 10 am est to about 6 pm est or so, with a long break at dinner time in the UK that falls around lunch time here on east coast time US.

The schedule of speakers isn't out yet, though I imagine it will be soon. I've enjoyed the two conferences I've already attended enough to buy my ticket without seeing the schedule first, but if you want to wait, the schedule should eventually be posted at the link for the tickets that I'm including here. Tickets are £10. I'm not sure exactly what that comes out to in US dollars, but it's something around $12, I think.

I'll reiterate just to be safe that I am not affiliated with the con or The Folklore Podcast in any way, and do not benefit monetarily from any of you buying tickets.

I do benefit socially from you guys attending, in that I get to interact with you and talk about shared interests at the con, and recommending things that people end up enjoying gives me a great feeling inside, but those are the only benefits on my end ;).

I hope to see you guys there!

Link to buy tickets

214alaudacorax
gen. 10, 1:48pm

Is this or is it not a case of demonic possession?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UUjJysUMTw

There's a brilliant comment down below, somewhere, where someone says, "Yeah, it's all fun and games until your parrot starts summoning Satan ..."

215housefulofpaper
gen. 10, 4:58pm

At the best of times I find a talking animal at least slightly unnerving. That takes it to another level.

216benbrainard8
Editat: gen. 23, 5:58pm

Hello All. Sorry this might seem off-off topic, but have any of you seen movie based on the Stephen King book, Doctor Sleep , Ewan McGregor? It has quite a few scary elements and some of the meanies/protagonist have qualities, that are, let's say vampiric.

Having not read book, I can't vouch either way for it. But the movie is scary and not bad for a sequel, to The Shining, directed by Kubrick.

217LolaWalser
gen. 23, 5:54pm

>216 benbrainard8:

hi Ben! Nothing is off topic in Gossip! Have not seen, have not read, any of that, will now make space for others who did... :)

218housefulofpaper
gen. 28, 9:26pm

>216 benbrainard8:

It's in here, somewhere :) ...but I haven't watched it yet (or read King's book). I gather it aims to be a sequel both to King's novel and to Kubrick's film, somehow.

219benbrainard8
Editat: gen. 31, 7:24pm

Thank you, wow, those are a lot of items to sort/get through.

Reading online, many reviewers said it was indeed meant to satisfy two primary goals:

1) to be a sequel to Kubrick's film version of "The Shining"
2) to be a film rendition of King's book, "Doctor Sleep". King wrote it as a sequel, with Danny Torrance, the young boy in the first book, being a primary character

I enjoyed the film version, Scottish-American actor Ewan McGregor is very effective in the role of Danny Torrance, and Swedish actress Rebecca Ferguson, is very effective in her role as a main protagonist.

Being that only a few of many Stephen King books have (arguably?) been made into great films, this received high reviews.

220Julie_in_the_Library
feb. 1, 2:07pm

The speaker and topic lineup for this weekend's Rural Gothic: Queer Horror virtual con is up, for anyone who is interested or deciding if they want to buy a ticket:

https://thefolklorepodcast.weebly.com/rural-gothic-queer-horror.html

221alaudacorax
feb. 14, 8:17am

I think this is suitable for a Gothic Gossip thread. Lost my heart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yB51vdkZAE

222housefulofpaper
feb. 14, 11:48am

>220 Julie_in_the_Library:
I realised I'm almost out of memory space on my Mac for new apps and I don't already have Zoom so I had to pass on this.

>221 alaudacorax:
It certainly seems to jibe with the concerns about man's place in the world as expressed in late-19th Century, post-Darwin Gothic.

I've got my own little Gothic thing going on at the moment. My boiler has stoped working and suddenly I'm in a cold draughty cell!

223alaudacorax
feb. 14, 12:14pm

>222 housefulofpaper:

Oh my god. What a time to have your heating go. Never mind, it will be practically tropical tomorrow ... the Met Office is giving seven or eight degrees.

224alaudacorax
feb. 17, 4:26pm

Old Nunkie can be quite addictive ... well, I suppose I should say 'young Nunkie'—sounds a bit odd, that, though. Anyway, listened to 'just one' of his stories over my tea, and found myself still listening some four hours later. Trouble is, they're stories I wouldn't have chosen to read, as I've read most of them quite recently ... like I said—addictive!

225pgmcc
feb. 17, 5:06pm

>224 alaudacorax: The performances, in person or online, are great. He really brings the characters to life.

226housefulofpaper
feb. 19, 7:09pm

Do you remember over a year ago I asked whether there was an original of the figure of a sinister figure with a pet buzzard or vulture, a figure which pops up every so often in various places, and for which several of us acknowledged a feeling of recognition? And yet it doesn't seem to have a documented lineage or to be recognised as a trope.

I have to sadly confess to being no closer to an answer, if there's one to be had. But I do have a further example:



This is the character down only as "Mad Scientist" from the very first Max Fleischer Superman cartoon and - as I found him described online - his "vulture henchman".

227Julie_in_the_Library
feb. 21, 12:31pm

This article was in my email from Tor.com the other day, and as soon as I saw the title, I knew that I had to share it with all of you:

Five Off-Beat Gothic and Horror Books for Fans of the Classics

Tor.com also has an ongoing blog about the weird tradition, if I'm remembering correctly from another email from a while back. I'll see if I can dig up the link, if anyone is interested.

228Julie_in_the_Library
Editat: feb. 21, 12:38pm

229housefulofpaper
feb. 21, 6:05pm

>227 Julie_in_the_Library:

Three titles I had never heard of . Intriguing, although Kassandra and the Wolf looks to be a tough read; and only one title that I've read, namely Ray Bradbury's From the Dust Returned.

I remember devouring it almost in one sitting - in my head this was quite recently, but I've been able to check, and it was December 2006!

To be honest, it's quite a light read. It's probably closer in spirit to Neil Gaiman's The Graveyard Book or even The Addams Family than it is to Angela Carter or Carmen Maria Machado (who I have to confess I haven't read, but I'm judging by following the link in the article).

230housefulofpaper
feb. 21, 6:58pm

Caught up on a BBC documentary about Stonehenge - a symbol of the Gothic, or more precisely the Druidical, in Gothic's 18th-century early days.

It's about the discovery that the bluestones (the smaller, inner circle) were not only quarried in West Wales and not from nearby (this has been known for a century) but they could have stood as a monument in their own right before being moved - stolen? and re-erected in Wiltshire.

The site is at Waun Mawn in Pembrokeshire's Preseli Hills. The remains of a matching stone circle ("remains" being filled-in holes in the ground that are of different density to the surroundings even after thousands of years).

231alaudacorax
feb. 22, 2:12pm

>227 Julie_in_the_Library:

Reminded yet again about how much I have NOT read. Still got most of Daphne du Maurier's novels to catch up on. In fact, I can only definitely remember reading Rebecca.

232alaudacorax
feb. 22, 2:24pm

>230 housefulofpaper:

Tsk-tsk, you English, pinching our stuff again ...

233housefulofpaper
feb. 23, 4:30pm

>232 alaudacorax:

Your comment gave me a flashback to school music lessons, must be over 40 years ago now. Having to sing "Men of Harlech" and suffering a "are we the bad guys?" moment...

234alaudacorax
feb. 23, 5:24pm

>233 housefulofpaper:

Ah well, we've all got to get used to being bad guys now—I just spent a half-hour watching a YouTube video on identity politics ...