De-Trumpification of America

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De-Trumpification of America

1LolaWalser
Editat: nov. 7, 2020, 9:46pm

This thread is, let's say, aspirational.

No sooner than I felt we had again permission to breathe, I was unpleasantly shocked by uncalled-for triumphalism expressed in well-known terms of American exceptionalism.

There is a problem with Trumpism, but there is also a much older and even more insidious problem with American megalomaniacal mythology. It's that chauvinistic priming that enabled Trump, not vice versa.

To begin with, I suggest you do away with the adjective "great". Reject the adjective "great", replace it with something reality-bound, relatively objective. At least as an exercise. Four years of MAGAting ought to have been enough lesson.

2bohemima
nov. 8, 2020, 10:17am

I’d settle for “good”. That would be refreshing.

I guess that’s the way of dominant empires, from Rome to China to Britain or France, to the US. In order to justify taking control of countries other than one’s own, the justification has to be “we’re better.”

No, we’re not. We’re just like everybody else, trying to schlep along. A little more focus on our own problems, and a lot less arrogance about our “power” would be a welcome, and I think necessary, change.

3Limelite
nov. 8, 2020, 9:56pm

1. Purge the DoJ.
2. Purge the State Dept.
3. Purge the USPS
4. Emphasize professional expertise in all appointments and hires.
5. Investigate all Trump appointed Federal judges for actual documentation of qualifications, review cases, and impeach all that can be justifiable impeached. Replace them with #4s.
6. Immediately begin aggressive law enforcement reform, based on recommendations of a multi-source, broad spectrum panel to include: a) civilian; b) professional; c) educational; d) and civic sources. Seek guidance from successfully reformed departments.
7. Investigate and prosecute ALL Trump Administration officials who committed crimes while in office.
8. Pursue prosecution of individuals in the Trump Administration believed to have committed crimes against humanity in the International Criminal Court in the Hague.
9. Incentivize public Middle Schools and High Schools to teach beginning and advanced courses in a) civics (rights, duties, and responsibilities of citizens); b) government (structure and function of levels of government local to federal); and c) understanding the American Constitution.

For starters.

4John5918
nov. 8, 2020, 10:41pm

>3 Limelite:

Since you mention the International Criminal Court, one might begin by removing US sanctions against its senior officials.

Rejoining the Paris Agreement and WHO might also be a good start, as well as recommitting to the Iran nuclear deal.

5LascaSartoris
nov. 8, 2020, 10:52pm

and rejoin UNESCO

6John5918
nov. 8, 2020, 11:38pm

And reversing the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital or Israel, and joining the rest of the international community in recognising the illegality of Israeli settlements on Palestinian land.

And domestically, to revert to pre-Trump immigration rules, which were already extremely strict. Ideally they should be relaxed even more, but back to pre-Trump norms should be an uncontroversial enough beginning.

7Limelite
nov. 9, 2020, 12:59am

>4 John5918:

You'll be gladdened to learn that Biden said rejoining the Paris Accord is one of the first actions he will take by Executive Order.

The following are merely my opinions.

I think reconciliation with WHO will become part of his pandemic response plan as the US moves to get a coalition of nations to develop standard practices, reach agreement on sharing of vaccine supplies and theraputics, and their pricing or underwriting. This may be undertaken by the US Ambassador to the UN in concert with America's CDC, FDA, and involved parties. I think its the best way to "put the screws" to Big Pharma.

But I think before any moves are made regarding Iran, Biden will need to analyze security updates, get the State Department to provide a recommendation if renegotiation or emendation is needed, and create a network of international partners to reevaluate the situation before making a particular commitment. This will require repairing our relationship in NATO much damaged by Trumpism. Biden is the pragmatic type with strong foreign policy experience and creds. He will probably soon signal a desire/willingness to reinstate the Iran Treaty, but it's not going to be done swiftly in comparison to the other two issues.

End of MHO.

8John5918
nov. 9, 2020, 2:24am

>7 Limelite: create a network of international partners

No real argument with you here, but note that there is already a "network of international partners", namely the USA's allies who co-signed the agreement with Iran and who are still committed to it.

9RickHarsch
nov. 9, 2020, 10:54am

I just said good luck

10Limelite
nov. 9, 2020, 2:03pm

>8 John5918:

I didn't express myself well -- meant a "consultation" to re-study the agreement. Yes, there exist the original cosigners, but if Biden Administration feels some changes should be made to that original agreement, I believe there will be a "group" with whom he discusses those changes, and it may only include the major cosigners who are carrying the bulk of the burden. I don''t know if the US' financial position will allow increased contributions or require lesser contributions to maintaining the provisions. Or how prolonged sanctions have impacted cosigners, etc.

Since we've been on the outs because of Trump, I suggest that we don't know the circumstances of those who remained in. Learning may require modifying the original accord.

Not taking time to assess and re-evaluate would be blind stupidity, since we were made blind and stupid by Mr. Irrelevant.

12fuzzi
nov. 23, 2020, 7:03am

>6 John5918: well, what a shame. Despite our differences I've never felt any need to block you. Until now.

Genesis 12:3

13John5918
Editat: nov. 23, 2020, 8:20am

>12 fuzzi:

No worries, fuzzi, but I'm a little surprised that you are blocking someone simply for politely expressing a political opinion which differs from your own. I'm also not sure what you mean by the reference to Genesis 12:3.

14bohemima
nov. 23, 2020, 8:35am

>13 John5918:
I hesitate to speak for Fuzzi, but just based on the posts in front of us, and her biblical quote, it would seem that your criticism of Israel’s political policies is tantamount to cursing Israel, and hence you will be cursed. (I had to look it up; my memorization is good but it’s a big, it book overall).

One wonders if Fuzzi eats pork products or shellfish or believes in executing adulterers by stoning. In for a penny, in for a pound.

I know that seems flippant. But I for one am both puzzled and mildly infuriated by those who cherry-pick which Bible verses they’re going to interpret literally. To me that makes nonsense of both faith and religious tenets.

15lriley
nov. 23, 2020, 11:10am

As far as I'm concerned Israel is an apartheid state and should be universally condemned for its mistreatment of Palestinians.

16bohemima
nov. 23, 2020, 1:06pm

>15 lriley: For reasons best known only to me, I’m deeply devoted to the state of Israel.

Not so devoted that I can’t see when the government is wrong, wrong, and triply wrong. What has happened with regard to the Palestinians is a shame and a disgrace. And of all nations on earth, Israel should realize that.

17Limelite
des. 20, 2020, 1:13pm

The packing of the courts with unqualified knee-jerk right wing ideologues; firing the qualified and dedicated personnel in the DOJ; saturating the State Dept. with sycophants who can't identify Ukraine on a map; and beheading the experienced pro-American specialists in the various security agencies to the extent that he has allowed the country to be permeated with Russian hackers, has brought me to the point of advocating for a deep, broad, and prolonged PURGE of Trump appointees in government positions.

18LolaWalser
des. 22, 2020, 12:13pm

I'm shocked to hear Trump raised more than half a billion since the election. Not only is his railing about the "theft" effective, it'll continue as long as it fills his pockets. Prospects for a thorough "de-Trumpification" are not good.

On a positive note, Robert Reich short and sweet about the success of progressive policies in the election: What Election Day Revealed About Progressive Policies

19margd
gen. 3, 3:44pm

"In order to win the fight we must understand
1. Why are we fighting ? 2. Who are we fighting?
We must be clear eyed about this. The stakes are too high."
- Steve Schmidt


The Seven Aspects of Trumpism
Nathan Max | Jan 2, 2020

Trumpism is an American autocratic movement with fascistic markers. There are seven specific parts that comprise its core (per Steve Schmidt, a Lincoln Project founder*).

1. THE LEADER...
2. THUGS...
3. ELITES...
4. PROPAGANDISTS...
5. FINANCIERS...
6. RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS...
7. SHEEP...

https://www.maxnewstoday.com/post/the-seven-aspects-of-trumpism
__________________________________________________​

* Steve Schmidt @SteveSchmidtSES | 9:03 PM · Jan 2, 2021:
Trumpism is an American autocratic movement with Fascistic markers. There are seven specific parts that comprise its core 1. THE LEADER. Donald Trump is the unquestioned leader of this movement. It is a cult of personality and there are no serious challengers against his (1)

leadership. (2) Thugs. The Proud Boys are but one example in a toxic stew of heavily armed Militia’s, White Nationalists and other right wing extremists. As is always the case, their ranks are filled with people on the fringes of society; the lonely, dispossessed, aggrieved (2)

and resentful. Not so long ago, there would have been a near societal consensus around describing these people as losers. These people bring the menace of violence to politics and are kin to the same thuggish rabble that were wearing brown and black shirts 100 years ago. (3)

3. ELITES. All Autocratic movements fuse an unholy alliance between society’s elites and losers. It is a coalition of convenience between two groups who despise each other yet need each other. The boundless cynicism of the elites and the endless grievances of the losers become an

Unbreakable cement. @HawleyMO and @SenTedCruz are perfect examples. Hawley graduated from Stanford and Yale Law School. He taught at Oxford and clerked for the Chief Justice of the United States. @SenTedCruz graduated from Princeton and Harvard Law School. They have become (5)

Completely faithless to their oaths and American democracy in the name of their ambition. They have no convictions, only self interest. 4. PROPAGANDISTS. Autocratic movements are built on and sustained by lies. Political lying and Conspiracy theories have become billion dollar

businesses. Fox News, Newsmax, Oann, Social Media, Talk Radio dividers, Infowars ect. ect have poisoned the American polity and created the conditions for Trump to create an alternate reality that is now a lethal threat to American liberty. (7)

5. FINANCIERS. This autocratic movement is financed by donations from some of America’s largest and best known companies and brands in the form of millions of dollars of donations to the entities that fund the political careers of the men and women who will soon be rising on the

Floor of the United States Congress to betray American democracy. ATT and CharlesSchwab
are two such companies. The list includes some of America’s wealthiest and most powerful individuals. Mostly they are disconnected from any interest or idea of the public good other than (9)

The selfishness of self interest. 6. RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS. Trump has surrounded himself with a group of loony, corrupt, hateful, sacrilegious charlatans that make a mockery of decency and goodness with every public utterance. 7. SHEEP. None of what is happening could happen (10)

Without the silent complicity of a legion of men and women who lack the conviction, guts and integrity to stand up against Trumps mean tweets and thousands of indecent, corrupt, cruel and incompetent acts. These men and women are no different than all of their predecessors (11)

Who found collaboration with what they knew to be immoral or evil as more convenient than resisting it. They are the weaklings and appeasers. They are the fools and the naive. They are the blind for whom what is obvious and true is far less preferable to delusion and pretend. (12)

In order to win the fight we must understand 1. Why are we fighting ? 2. Who are we fighting? We must be clear eyed about this. The stakes are too high 13#

202wonderY
gen. 21, 7:32am

Just another retiree moving to Florida
Planes will again be allowed to fly over MarALago. Will Donny have to wait for a tee time?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/21/donald-trump-florida-new-home-ma...

21LolaWalser
gen. 21, 12:46pm

I have to admit I'm less hopeful than I was when I started the thread. You can take Trump out of the WH, but Trumpism out of America...? That's a lot of people who voted for him.

I suppose we won't have stronger indications about how lasting the phenomenon may be until 2022... *sigh*... wait for this, then for the next thing...

22Molly3028
Editat: gen. 21, 1:13pm

https://www.newsweek.com/lindsey-graham-thinks-donald-trump-will-remain-stronges...
Lindsey Graham Thinks Donald Trump Will Remain Strongest Voice in Republican Party for Years

Lindsey is saying this because he knows that S. Carolina GOPers prefer
conservative leaders who lean towards white nationalism and/or white
supremacy. I don't think this is true nationally, however.

23Limelite
gen. 21, 1:25pm

The Way To People's Minds Is Through. . .

. . .their pockets.

Under the Biden administration actual real job creation will result from nearly each policy announced so far -- ramped up distribution, administration, and research into advancing immunity from viral disease; increased education programs at all levels; infrastructure building; pursuit of green technologies and other climate change technologies; pursuing digitization and artificial intelligence applications throughout government and business.

When people have occupations, careers, and jobs based on improving life, their environment, and the education of their children they enjoy increased secutity in terms of their personal futures both financially and emotionally. Both those securities promote connecting with and maintaining a stable relationship with reality.

On the most basic level, people feel their government is headed in the right direction and the world is working well when they are employed in jobs that pay a living wage that make them feel that they are contributing to that "right direction."

Personal security starts with personal employment, which gives people purpose without the need for a conspiracy based fantasy life and other organizations built around extreme mythologies of religion and militarism to support them.

Put people to work to get them off the Internet, off the streets, and off the 21st C. 'opiate for the masses.'

24John5918
gen. 21, 10:35pm

Biden inauguration leaves QAnon believers in disarray (BBC)

Followers of the baseless QAnon conspiracy theory are divided after Joe Biden's inauguration confounded their predictions that Donald Trump would remain president in order to punish his enemies in the "deep state". Many reacted with shock and despair as Joe Biden was sworn in as the 46th US president... For weeks, QAnon followers had been promoting 20 January as a day of reckoning, when prominent Democrats and other elite "Satanic paedophiles" would be arrested and executed on the orders of President Trump...

25MsMixte
gen. 22, 12:40am

>24 John5918: Moved the goalposts so that the next target date is March 4th (the old date of inaugurations). They aren't giving up yet! Such an excellent illustration of the sunk cost fallacy.

26John5918
gen. 22, 12:56am

>25 MsMixte: Moved the goalposts

Reminds me of the famous "Will this wind?" sketch in the Secret Policeman's Ball - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hJQ18S6aag

"Well, it's not quite the conflagration we'd been banking on. Never mind, lads, same time tomorrow. We must get a winner one day".

272wonderY
gen. 22, 6:01am

>24 John5918: Some of Qanon believe that we are under a silent military law, activated by trump just before he left office and that the military and fema are now really in charge. This from my neighbor. I did find it online too, should I post the reference? Hate to give it more oxygen.

28John5918
Editat: gen. 22, 6:33am

>27 2wonderY:

It's absolutely incredible the nonsense that people find a way of believing against all rational evidence. Don't bother posting a link, thanks.

29Molly3028
Editat: gen. 22, 9:59am

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/newt-gingrich-tells-hannity-that-democrats-want-to-e...
Newt Gingrich Tells Hannity that Democrats Want to ‘Exterminate’ Republicans

Newsflash buddy ~
The brown demographic wave is going to extinguish GOPers' usefulness. The
Trump detour the party took merely sped up the process.

30John5918
gen. 22, 1:57pm

Trump lit the fuse, but anti-media sentiment among his supporters may outlast him (Committee to Protect Journalists)

with Trump now out of the White House — and banned from Twitter – animosity toward the press among some Trump supporters and far-right extremist groups is unlikely to diminish, reporters and researchers of extremism told CPJ... Trump’s labeling of journalists as “enemies of the people” played on anti-press sentiments deeply held by far-right extremists, including adherents of QAnon, the conspiracy theory that a cabal of global elites is undermining Trump...

In the past, some extremist groups saw media coverage as a way to burnish their image with the public and recruit new members... Today, the dynamic has shifted. Extremists have the internet as a recruitment tool... Taking a more openly adversarial position against the press is no longer seen as counterproductive to efforts at publicity...

31MsMixte
gen. 22, 2:08pm

>30 John5918: The internet may be a recruitment tool, but extremist groups are learning that it can make their members easier to track. Those smartphones give up many secrets when law enforcement opens them up.

33proximity1
Editat: gen. 23, 3:39pm


Ta-Nehisi Coates is a fucking moron. And The Atlantic, once a respectable monthly magazine, has made itself into a laughable, worthless, piece of shit--and an embarrassment as far as genuine journalism is concerned. But it's also a veritable model of the rank idiocy that today passes for respectable journalism.

34Limelite
gen. 23, 4:09pm

Just Because It's Accepted by a Mob of Trump Cultists

A wise man warns wise listeners and readers how not to become a violent insurrectionist when "caught up in the moment." The signature of a Trump cultist is that in spite of knowing what Washington teaches them is what separates decent people from dastardly people, they choose to go along to get along with the majority of their fellow conspiracists simply because white supremacy is more important to them than true American mores that value opportunity, equality, and respect.

There can be no reconciliation without truth and accountability first.

35Molly3028
Editat: gen. 23, 4:50pm

https://www.rawstory.com/sydney-powell-twitter/
EXCLUSIVE: Sydney Powell and Mike Lindell may be in for a big surprise when they launch their Super PAC

Sydney and Mike ~ A match made in Trump-era election hell.

36Molly3028
Editat: gen. 23, 4:53pm

>34 Limelite:

Hitler was loved by millions of Germans, too!

37proximity1
Editat: gen. 24, 3:10pm



(TK News at substack.com)
The Echo Chamber Era
Trust in media is down, but if journalists don't listen to critics anyway, why should they care? | Jan. 22, 2021 | by Matt Taibbi




... "It’s astonishing that after so many years of decline in trust in media — this phenomenon has been going on for over a decade now, something I first started noticing when I published The Great Derangement back in 2008 — media people still think the issue is a mathematical question of 'sides,' with widespread audience revulsion a kind of reward for their unflinching correctitude.

"Sullivan was a lot closer to the truth when she warned of being seduced by the return of a Biden administration that closely reflects 'our values,' which she described as being like the world as represented in West Wing: celebrating 'multiculturalism, a belief in the principles of liberal democracy, and a kind of wonky idealism.'

" 'West Wing' was 'General Hospital' for rich white liberals, a seven-season love letter to the enlightened attitudes of the Bobo-in-Paradise demographic. If that’s the self-image of the national press, it’s no wonder they make people want to vomit. The coverage of Biden’s inauguration, another celebration of those attitudes, was an almost perfect mathematical inverse of late-stage Trump reporting, a monument to groveling sycophancy.

"John Heileman at MSNBC compared Biden’s speech to Abe Lincoln’s second inaugural, and suggested that the sight of 'the Clintons, the Bushes, and the Obamas' gathered for the event was like 'the Marvel superheroes all back in one place' (this was not the first post-election Avengers comparison to be heard on cable). Rachel Maddow talked about going through 'half a box of Kleenex' as she watched the proceedings. Chris Wallace on Fox said Biden’s lumbering speech was 'the best inaugural address I ever heard,' John Kennedy’s 'Ask Not' speech included. The joyful tone was set the night before by CNN’s David Challen, who said lights along the Washington Mall were like 'extensions of Joe Biden’s arms embracing America.' "
...





so, tell me: where's the fabled liberal/leftists' capacity for empathy? If you experienced much of what's described above as it was broadcast and you never felt any twinge of nausea then you need to have your empathic physiology checked, for all of that over-the-top hoopla was a very compressed Master Class in all of those things which have, over course of the Clinton and Obama tenures and, then, throughout the witch-hunt pursuit of Trump, left millions of Americans--the people Hillary Clinton in rare candor, called those occupying a "basket of deplorables"--frequently feeling the urge to spew their partly-digested stomach contents all over the nearest wall. Never for a moment has the West Wing fan-club-set ever dropped diminished or dismissed its view of the half of Americans who have favored the Trump presidency as being and belonging in that basket of deplorables.

That's only one of many but perhaps the clearest, most compelling, of reasons for the so-called basket-dwellers to regard Biden's calls for national unity now, after having shamelessly defrauded the American electoral processes, as so much worthless and hypocritical self-serving bullshit.

38kiparsky
gen. 24, 2:54pm

>37 proximity1: There's a certain delightful irony in seeing Proxy whining about someone else's name-calling.

I'm sorry that the return to democracy and competence has made you so cranky, Prox. But honestly, it's going to work out better for all of us, so just sick back and puke your way through it.

39Limelite
gen. 24, 3:59pm

Strange how people find fault with the journalists who report the truth, but not the ones who propagatd the BIG LIE that led to the attempted coup. How they whine that facts are biased but never a peep or weep when the right wing noise machine cranks out nothing but specious propaganda and disinformation.

No wonder tens of thousands have fled the Republican Party since the insurrectionist barbarians stormed the gates of the Capitol. The scales fell off their eyes once people started getting arrested for the crimes they committed in service to the Cult Leader they chose to believe.

Ignorance and self-delusion are no excuse for breaking the law. We saw a mob of ignorants Jan. 6th who preferred to feed their egos on Fauxfo rather than info. Highly trained lemming brains can't think. Naturally, they all went over the cliff, obeying their herd mind, or as they like to excuse the inexcusable, being "caught up in the moment." Adults who can think and acknowledge reality don't get caught up in the moment when they find themselves in a crowd of rodents. They extricate themselves from the swamp before following the other rats into the sewer.

40John5918
Editat: gen. 25, 4:33am

>37 proximity1:, >38 kiparsky:, >39 Limelite:

Mind you, I think proximity has a point. I see a lot of gloating, vindictiveness and schadenfreude from some posters here, and a certain lack of magnanimity, although Biden himself seems to be trying to do the right thing. The fact that proximity and their ilk behaved badly is no justification for others to do so now. At the moments democrats (small "d", not Democrats the party) have the moral high ground and I think they should try to keep it rather than mimic some of the dysfunctional behaviour of proximity's political stable mates. And note that I am not calling for impunity for any of those formerly in power to escape accountability for their actions, but this should be done through legal means such as the Senate impeachment trial and the courts, or a formal truth and reconciliation process, not through name calling and petty vindictiveness.

“In War: Resolution,
In Defeat: Defiance,
In Victory: Magnanimity
In Peace: Good Will.”

Winston S. Churchill

41Molly3028
Editat: gen. 25, 8:24am

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/frank-luntz-goes-off-on-media-polarization-after-con...
Frank Luntz Goes Off on Media Polarization After Contentious Focus Group: ‘We Have to Say Enough Is Enough’

My take ~ What Americans are enduring today is a direct outcome of the Murdoch/FOX NEWS business model. Trump told over 30k lies/misstatements over a four-year period. Murdoch's prime-timers pretended that those statements were accurate. The viewership increased and the advertisers, the hosts and Murdoch made big bucks. Sadly, FOX is continuing the same business model to this day. FOX News prime-timers are getting richer, and they are mentoring another generation of like-minded GOPers. The modern-day GOP must be nuked and replaced by true patriots. The de-Trumpification of America is essential.

and

Trump knew exactly what he was doing when he 'hitched his wagon' to the GOP. Very few GOPers are true patriots. Very few of them have the courage to disconnect themselves from the life-long con man who gave them the power opportunities they craved.

42lriley
Editat: gen. 25, 9:11am

#40--as much as Trumpist's have had a hard time getting past the fact that they lost the 2020 election by fair means still there are 74 million + people who voted for Trump and largely those who voted for Biden have a multi-culturalist outlook and those who voted for Trump are hanging on to more traditional and patriarchal ideals of what they think this country is supposed to stand for and I really don't know what we're going to do to bridge these differences. What particularly makes our situation more unique and more dangerous than most other countries is the prevalence of firearms and the attitudes towards firearms by a large swathe of the population. Put in modern cultural signifiers like Marvel Comic movies where anyone is free to dream they can be a superhero at the same time that death is cheapened by the daily addition of 3000 or so new Covid victims--the United States is pretty much a country gone off the fucking rails (where a 9-11's worth of deaths every day no longer matters that much)--just waiting for the next disaster.

I don't envy the position that Biden or Harris are in. I don't know how they fix everything either. They hopefully will fix some things. Everything? probably not. The unifying message is nice--the problem is too many people are not going to buy it.

Just on the impeachment---does Trump deserve it? Yes. Is he is a traitor? Yes. Is he responsible for the several dead of January 6? Yes. Is the impeachment going to work? No--and that's a problem that matters whether it works or not and where do you go from there when it doesn't happen? What's going to be accomplished in the end? I can see that turning into a big negative. On the one side the disappointment and on the other the rage.

43gsm235
gen. 25, 10:43am

>42 lriley: I’m not sure how to bridge differences either. In fact, even considering that I think there should be a way to bridge differences may be an deep ravine to cross. It seems like one side wants total capitulation. There is a bad marriage between blue and red America without the remedy of divorce.

44LolaWalser
gen. 25, 10:55am

>42 lriley:

Is the impeachment going to work? No--and that's a problem that matters whether it works or not and where do you go from there when it doesn't happen? What's going to be accomplished in the end? I can see that turning into a big negative.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I feel as if there are no upper limits to "negative" that haven't been blown up already. That is--you are probably right that this won't matter, in the sense of changing people's minds about Trump. But I don't think that's the most important thing, or was the first time either.

The Democrats, as I see it, simply have to defend the principle of law, which can be seen as a metaphor for decency. What they are doing is answering the "I can kill someone on Fifth Avenue with impunity" with "no, actually you can't, you do that and we'll throw the book at you".

And if the trumpists see this as putting them on trial, all the better and right they are. They should be put on trial (metaphorically) for what they support and abet because they won't do any soul-searching on their own.

45LolaWalser
Editat: gen. 25, 10:55am

(again with the double posts, argh)

46jjwilson61
gen. 25, 12:04pm

>41 Molly3028: Isn't Murdoch today's version of William Randolph Hearst? How did that previous era of yellow journalism finally end?

47bohemima
gen. 25, 1:32pm

>40 John5918: and >44 LolaWalser: Thank you, John and Lola for on-point posts. It’s really difficult not to engage in, or be drawn into, retorting in kind to the ugly rhetoric that has been aimed at anyone who who opposes Mr. Trump and everything he stands for.

Like you, I think dealing with the entire situation(s) should be dealt with through legal means, to include an impeachment trial.

It’s time to let that happen. And while it does, it’s time to see what agreements can be made to get needed policies and programs underway.

48lriley
gen. 25, 1:52pm

#44--there is a very very good point there for sure. But people should be ready because he's not going to pay any kind of real price for that and it's going to be used to encourage even more anger and resentment. That almost seems to be the Trumpist goal. The bulk of the Republican Party seem ready to follow Trump's path down any and all rabbit holes.

Keeping in mind when we say 'the bulk' because much as I don't like the Romney's or Cheney's and that faction they don't seem to want to be part of the Trump coalition---the question is how much do they represent and what does a real schism on the right look like? What this faction might lack as far as populist power they certainly are connected to the levers of corporate, finance and military industrial power in ways that someone like Trump could never be.

49bohemima
gen. 25, 3:37pm

>48 lriley: I keep wondering if the Republican Party will fracture into the Republican Party and the Loony Party.

51lriley
gen. 25, 4:11pm

#49--Rob Portman--Ohio Republican Senator deciding not to run for re-election in 2022. He would be one of those that I would suspect might vote to convict. He's very much the typical Bush era corporate connected well educated establishment type that would fit in well with the Cheney's, Romney's, McCain's--the neo-con's and the Wall Streeters. Not so much a newer guy on the block like Cruz, Hawley, Rubio or Cotton or someone who's pledged his soul like Lindsey Graham or Ron Johnson or some recent mal-educated sycophants like Tuberville or Hyde Smith.

52Molly3028
Editat: gen. 26, 6:52am

https://www.mediaite.com/news/rupert-murdoch-condemns-awful-woke-orthodoxy-and-s...
Rupert Murdoch Condemns ‘Awful Woke Orthodoxy’ and Social Media ‘Censorship’ in Speech

This Aussie and his prime-time hosts make big bucks scr*wing with the minds and hearts of clueless, gullible Americans. James, the son who left the News Corp organization, is a true patriot.

53margd
gen. 28, 12:31pm

As Trump Seeks to Remain a Political Force, New Targets Emerge
Maggie Haberman and Reid J. Epstein | Jan. 25, 2021

...
Senator Rob Portman of Ohio (will) not seek a third term (Jim Jordan)
Gov. Mike DeWine is expected to face at least one Trump-aligned primary challenger
Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Mr. Trump’s former White House press secretary, began her campaign for Arkansas governor

Mr. Trump...
has told aides he would like to take a break for several months
remains the party’s strongest fund-raiser, with tens of millions in PAC money at his disposal
retains an enduring base of Republican support across the country
harbors a deep-seated desire to punish those he believes have crossed him (Rep Anthony Gonzalez of OH, Fred Upton of MI)
he believes the GA Republican governor and secretary of state betrayed him by certifying his loss there
Arizona’s Republican Party...Kelli Ward, the firebrand chairwoman, asked for his help in gaining re-election
movement at the state and local levels to challenge incumbent members of Congress seen as breaking with the former president
formally opened the Office of the Former President
has just over $70 million in his PAC, Save America, with few restrictions
most of his staff is on a government payroll afforded to former presidents for a period of time after they leave office.
working to mend Mr. Trump’s relationship with Representative Kevin McCarthy, Republican of California, House minority leader
governor’s race in Arizona, where Doug Ducey cannot seek re-election
Gov. Greg Abbott’s re-election bid in Texas (?)
daughter-in-law, Lara Trump, was said to be considering a Senate run in North Carolina...(uncertainty),
Doug Collins may challenge Senator Raphael Warnock (D-GA) in 2022
will take opportunities to damage Rep Liz Cheney (R-WY)
rumors that his daughter Ivanka would run for Senate in Florida are unlikely to develop further
retained SC-based lawyers, led by Butch Bowers, who is expected to work with Jason Miller, on some kind of response operation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/25/us/politics/trump-portman-ohio-sarah-sanders....

542wonderY
gen. 28, 2:09pm

>53 margd: Does Warnock not have a six year term?

55lriley
gen. 28, 3:06pm

#54--no. Warnock--Loeffler was not on the schedule in 2020 until Johnny Cochrane stepped down because of illness. At that point Trump wanted Kemp to name Doug Collins to complete Cochrane's term but instead Kemp went with Kelly Loeffler. If Warnock wins again in 2022 he will then have a 6 year term.

Speaking of the money that Donald raises. He's not well known for sharing it. For instance in the Georgia Senate races--he raised a lot of money for those but he kept it for himself. With all the money woes he seems to be looking at I wouldn't expect he'll be very generous with it in the future either---anyway giving it away to others seems to go against everything he's about.

56margd
gen. 28, 3:09pm

>54 2wonderY: I think because Sen Warnock replaced Gov-appointed Kelly Loeffler, he has to run again in 2022?
Sen Ossoff has a full six years before he has to run again?

(There was some joshing between the two men on who was the senior and who the junior senator?)

57lriley
gen. 28, 3:11pm

Sorry I meant Johnny Isaakson--not Cochrane. If he hadn't stepped down from his seat it would have been up in 2022.

58kiparsky
gen. 28, 4:54pm

>55 lriley: As I understand it, there are restrictions on what he can do with the money. He can embezzle some of it into his pockets, for example by holding "events" at his own facilities, and I'm sure he'll try all the usual dodges like hiring himself and his family as "consultants", but it's not as simple as just walking off with it.

Of course, in the end his hope is that he gets to walk off with it, I guess we'll see what happens. Apparently his lawn order judges don't think he should be culpable for anything (ie, mooting the emoluments cases because he's no longer president - sort of like mooting a murder case because the victim is already dead, if you ask me...)

59terriks
gen. 28, 8:00pm

>56 margd: Hi, yes, you're correct - Ossoff won a regular 6-year term, while Warnock beat the Kemp-appointed Loeffler in a special election. So Warnock will in fact have to run again in 2022.

Of the two candidates, Ossoff had the heavier lift, since Purdue had been duly elected and had name recognition. So it's best that Warnock be the one who has to go again.

Of course, the GA Republicans now have 2 years to plot more voter restrictions, so it won't be easy.

60margd
Editat: gen. 29, 7:11am

Daniel Goldman (lawyer during 1st impeachment, House Judiciary Committee) @danielsgoldman | 9:54 PM · Jan 28, 2021:
Nobody sums it up better than @esglaude.
You can’t have unity if you aren’t working from the same fundamental democratic values.
And until those who tried to overturn the election acknowledge that the election was lawful and Biden is the legitimate prez,
we can’t move forward.
--------------------------------------------------​
1:56 ( https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1354944388057726977 )
From Icculus The Brave

61margd
gen. 29, 7:14am

Trump's legacy of mistrust sends Congress into total war
Stephen Collinson | January 29, 202

Former President Donald Trump may be gone from the White House but his legacy of catastrophic mistrust is poisoning Washington, dimming hopes of a unified effort to crush the pandemic before mutant viral strains take root.

Nine days after newly sworn-in President Joe Biden told America that "every disagreement doesn't have to be a cause for total war," recriminations between the parties and the Republican meltdown are consuming Congress.

It's now clear that the January 6 mob attack on Capitol Hill, while failing in its bid to reverse Trump's election loss, has utterly fractured the basic level of trust needed to make a political system function — at a critical national moment...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/politics/donald-trump-republicans-joe-biden-coron...
_______________________________

For Trump’s Aggrieved Defenders, This Impeachment Confirms Everything
Dionne Searcey | Jan. 27, 2021

...The rallying behind Mr. Trump serves as a powerful reminder of the lasting influence of the former president and his grievance-fueled politics, still inescapable in a country where a new leader has taken charge, a pandemic rages and reality blends with falsehoods and conspiracy theories.

Now, supporters of Mr. Trump whose blood boiled at the first impeachment are galvanized anew by the second, rising to his defense with the familiar refrains they have soaked up for years from conservative talking heads, from social media or from the president himself. Cries of a witch hunt and commands to “stop the steal.” Calling opponents “radical left Democrats” and the media “fake news.” Repeating the campaign slogan of “Keep America Great” as hundreds of thousands died of the coronavirus and the economy tanked...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/27/us/politics/trump-supporters-impeachment.html

62margd
gen. 30, 4:38am

The Republican Accountability Project @AccountableGOP | 8:40 AM · Jan 29, 2021:
Trump wasn’t the only one who incited the attack on the U.S. Capitol.

0:43 ( https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1355148722011840514 )

63margd
gen. 30, 4:42am

:

Scott Dworkin funder | 10:04 PM · Jan 29, 2021:
Here's Marjorie Taylor Greene the day after the Capitol riot saying
"it was a hard thing we did yesterday, but I wouldn't do anything else. I wouldn't do anything else."
This video is beyond disturbing.

0:44 ( https://twitter.com/funder/status/1355351179958620160 )

64mamzel
gen. 30, 2:13pm

>62 margd: On Rachel's show last night she showed billboards put up in battleground states and a TV spot to be aired during Fox and Friends in these states.

Start at minute 20:00.

65John5918
gen. 30, 11:10pm

'They're coming for us' - right-wing media on Biden's week (BBC)

President Biden may have called for unity but he's also trying to quickly dismantle Trump's legacy. How has his busy first full week gone down with conservative media?...

66Molly3028
Editat: gen. 31, 1:47pm

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-wallace-theres-more-visible-outrage-inside-the...
Chris Wallace: There’s ‘More Visible Outrage Inside the GOP’ Over Liz Cheney Than Over Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Conspiracies

The fact that the 2020's GOP is a cult is no longer in dispute as far as I am concerned. Ms. Greene represents the lunatic base of that political cult. Liz Cheney represents the carcass of Lincoln's party.

67Limelite
Editat: feb. 1, 6:02pm

Lifelong Republicans Fleeing Republican Party by the Dozens

They're not just run-of-the-mill private citizen Republicans, either. Former Bush officials leave GOP over Party leaders' failure to disown Trump They object to their party's refusal to dismiss specious 'stolen election' lies; its continuous lack of condemnation and punishment against GA Rep. M T Greene; and the indication by Republican Senators that they will not convict Trump in Impeachment II, nor boot him from the party, nor bar him from office.
. . .as many as 60 former officials would leave the party in the coming days, with at least one also citing Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene's (R-Ga.) promotion of conspiracy theories as a reason for their exit.

“If it continues to be the party of Trump, many of us are not going back,” said Rosario Marin, a former U.S. Treasury official, told the news service. “Unless the Senate convicts him, and rids themselves of the Trump cancer, many of us will not be going back to vote for Republican leaders.”
Here we see the only way to rid the Republican Party of Trumpism and by extension, render support for Trump null by barring him from serving in political office. Even if he should start his own party, once barred as a result of an impeachment conviction, he still is barred from office.

Wise and ethical Republicans will "kill the elephant" by starving it of membership, money, support, and votes.

68Molly3028
Editat: feb. 2, 3:55pm

Who in 1999 would have believed a forecast that a life-long con man and cult personality would have the ability to destroy Lincoln's 'Grand Old Party' before the end of the first quarter of the 21st Century?

69mikevail
feb. 2, 5:13pm

>68 Molly3028:
Not sure about 1999 but this guy was on it in 2009
https://www.librarything.com/topic/74764#1587279

70Limelite
feb. 2, 7:30pm

After paying attention to the news since the insurrection, I'm afraid that there will be no de-Trumpification. Everything I've read indicates a doubling down on Trumpism, an enthusiastic embrace of conspiracy culture, an adoration of violent attacks instead of civilized debate, a worship of white supremacy, and a revulsion for what they used to pin their politics on -- law and order -- which is being replaced by an attraction to outright lawlessness and contempt for ethics.

Cowardly Republicans have done this to us.

Our future: Two Americas, not the United States: Militarized White male Christianists and their bullying handmaids vs. the rest of us.

71Limelite
feb. 2, 8:51pm

Georgia Republicans Send McCarthy Letter Confirming They Believe Conspiracies from Marjorie Taylor Greene

This story is an example of what's happening close to the Republican grassroots.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) sent a note from home to Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) on Tuesday, citing some of the same conspiracy theories that she spouts.
In a tweet of the note, Greene revealed that the "Republican Party Chairs and Members of the 14th District" attacked Democrats using ridiculous conspiracy theories twisted by QAnon Republicans. For this reason, they believe there is a double standard for Greene, who spread lies about a Jewish Space Laser, school shooting denialism, and claims 9/11 was an inside job and no plane ever hit the Pentagon.
At this point, I urge you to read the linked article as it discusses and compares the Swalwell (D-CA) - Chinese spy vs. the Portman (R-OH) - Russian spy cases. You can guess which case MT Greene focused on.

Now here is an excerpt of the letter from the GA Republican Party in support of poor misunderstood bullying bigot MT Greene.
"We believe Marjorie Greene has been targeted because she is a conservative that represents conservatives like us and those across the district," the letter says. "We have received countless calls, texts, emails and messages showing continued support for her. We are giving her a chance. We have a process to follow, and if we don't like what she does or says as our representative, we take it to the voting booth next election."
Where have we heard that excuse for the inexcusable before? Wasn't it Moscow Mitch and others who admonished nervous Americans that DJT would become more presidential, after all, he's not a politician. Give him a chance. Look how that worked out.

And here's the punchline to why de-Trumpification isn't going to happen, if left up to the Republicans.
At no point has Greene apologized or recanted her statements. Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) came out against "loony" conspiracy theories, but not against Greene.
Apparently, MT Greene was asked to McCarthy's office tonight. Probably for a chummy confab so the Minority Leader can pass along to the tyro terrorist DJT's message of congratulations and his incitement to carry on "fighting."

72gsm235
feb. 3, 9:35am

>70 Limelite: On “Our future: Two Americas, not the United States.”

Over the last four years I’ve been wondering if our nation can stand united or if it must split apart like a bad marriage into two, three, or more countries. I have no clue how this could be realistically accomplished. I’m not even sure that splitting apart would be the best solution.

My thought experiment would be to map out what these countries would be like. This is probably not the place for those thought experiments.

73proximity1
Editat: feb. 3, 2:11pm

Who's going to defend California--the independent nation (LOL!) ---from annexation by China? from annexation by Mexico, backed by China?

and shall the Free People's Idiotic Republic of California rig protect all of its electoral politics, protect them systematically?--- as is done in Russia, North Korea or China--- or only some of its electoral politics from interference by the wrong people, the better to ensure that only the right people, the right ideas, and the right policies prevail?

MFG!!!! Nancy Pelosi might have to emigrate!

Don't worry: as they've demonstrated again and again, the far-sighted liberal geniuses who brought you serial Trump impeachments and BLM have thought all this through very carefully!

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!

74Limelite
feb. 3, 6:44pm

House Republican Leadership Goes Full QAnon

Instead of de-Trumpification, it looks like the GOP is decided on a course of hyper-Trumpification. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) issued a statement making it clear that his party will take no action to remove pro-QAnon Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) from her committee assignments. Looks like McCarthy's obeisance trip to Mar-a-Lago resulted in little else but mealy-mouthed excuses for the QAnon bully and typical Republican "what aboutism" finger pointing. It's what passes for leadership among the Trump Cult acolytes. Still.

I ask my Jewish friends who have access to the giant space laser (revealed to us by Gaga Greene) to consider what can be done.

75davidgn
Editat: feb. 3, 7:31pm

Wonder what's going to happen when March 4 comes and goes...
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88akpx/qanon-thinks-trump-will-become-president-...

ETA:
Also, suppose the time has come to become literate on the Sovereign Citizen-spawned pseudolaw nonsense. It may be coming to a "Common Law Court" near you.

"A Rebellion of Furious Paper: Pseudolaw As a Revolutionary Legal System"
Paper delivered at the Centre d’expertise et de formation sur les intégrismes religieux et la radicalisation (CEFIR) symposium: “Sovereign Citizens in Canada”, Montreal, 3 May 2018
Donald Netolitzky
Alberta Court of Queen's Bench
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID3177484_code2608878.pdf?abstrac...

76Limelite
feb. 4, 8:55pm

64% of Republicans Say They Would Join a Trump Led Political Party

All but 11 members of the House and 8 Republican Senators will run into the arms of Trump should he start a new political party. We can't discuss de-Trumpification in this country when 64 % of what's left of the Republican Party, nearly all the representatives who identify as "R" and the "usual suspects" who are the wing not underbelly of the Senate are all in for Re-Trumpification.

Hill-HarrisX poll conducted Jan. 28-29.

77JGL53
feb. 4, 9:03pm

> 76

Good news for modern man. And woman.

78davidgn
feb. 4, 9:33pm

>77 JGL53: Maybe. Maybe.
On the one hand, it splits the vote. On the other, now you have a large far-right nutter party, a tiny vestigial right/center-right party, and a large center-straddling party. What could possibly go wrong?

79lriley
feb. 4, 10:02pm

#78--the problem with the Maga party though is they're really short on ideas and convincing arguments. It's pretty much feeding off their own resentments and this asinine loyalty to a narcissistic cipher. It's like them against everyone else and it cuts across racial and gender divides in a really mean spirited way. It's a completely negative and reactionary dumbed down kind of politics.Yeah there are millions and millions of them but they're still a minority and that 36% may be assholes too but they can't afford to lose a single % of them and they almost certainly will.

80lriley
feb. 4, 10:11pm

I'll add that Trump etal. have really set themselves against pretty much every American institution including law enforcement which is pretty right wing to begin with. The law is going to come down on those rioters even if Trump himself gets away scot free. I can't think that groups like the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers are going to walk away. These people are cranks led by around by a charlatan who walked away from them in their moment of need. Also Trump's biggest sycophants like Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul--their national ambitions are shit--they'll never run and win on a big stage because they've been spotted for the hypocrites they are over and over again by most of the public. These guys are laughable and laughingstocks really. Graham basically has thrown the McCain's under the bus over and over again. That was his best friend. Says all you need to know about what a shitbird he is.

81Limelite
feb. 4, 10:34pm

The most crucial point is that, based on the survey, a new Trump party of Republican supporters would be the second largest political party in the US.

Look at the Republican House vote on the Cheney/Greene issues. 199 votes for campaigning with an AR-15 pointing at Democrats -- OK; conspiracy theories that deny accepted truth -- OK; inciting violence and advocating for violent overthrow of the legitimate government -- OK; spewing lies, forwarding lies, admiring liars -- OK. BUT standing up in opposition to a liar -- 61 NEVER!; impeaching a president who attempted a violent coup and happened to also be a Republican -- NEVER!; voting to bar a lying, insurrectionist inciting traitor from public office ever again -- NEVER!

That is what the Republican Party is.

But what is frightening about the results of the poll is the support for a Trump-led party by Independents (28%) and Democrats (16%).

There is a lot of white people in this country who are afraid of the future -- browner, multi-lingual, harder working than they are, true believers in the actual values of our founders, especially the, "All men are created equal; Rule of law, not of men; One person one vote; Majority rules; Government of the people" parts. And they are fine with stomping, beating, and killing all who disagree with their intentions to intimidate those who represent and support inevitable change into cowering in the corner and leaving the power to run things just to them.

82LolaWalser
feb. 4, 11:21pm

>79 lriley:

All the Nazis needed to offer was resentment (WWI lost through "treason"; "unjust" Versailles) and racial hatred. Same ingredients.

And the loons are indeed calling for war (seriously, has anyone looked today in Political Conservatives? You may want to.)

83lriley
feb. 5, 4:58am

#82--no doubt but every move they make just marginalizes them some more. They're going to bleed voters more than gain them. There are 4 states including our two most populated states California and Texas that are no longer white majority states. Logistically the trends are going to increase that number and there's really nothing short of genocide that's going to stop that. These trends are pretty much already facts. This perhaps is the greatest real fear of that crowd but they've turned Arizona and Georgia blue this time around and Texas is trending towards that color too. There are only so many election cycles before that happens and going more extreme is going to hurry that process up and if and when they lose Texas it's over for them. Mitch McConnell is pretty evil but he's not a fucking fool. He sees that which is why he doesn't want Trump seen as leader of his party.

If I'm the Biden administration I'm coming down hard on the right wing armed militaristic groups and the gun manufacturers. You can see Lloyd Austin already setting up protocols in the military--he wants to weed bad actors out which would be a good first step. I'm also pushing forward with DC and Puerto Rico statehood. DC should at the least have two new Senators and a voting congressperson by the end of Biden's first term which would make the republican party's chances of reclaiming the Senate anytime soon pretty daunting.

84kiparsky
feb. 5, 9:54am

>78 davidgn: Right. The obvious coalition would be the "reasonable" center-right and the nutbag right, but now the nutbags hold a permanent veto over the center-right's hold on power. This is not a win.

85margd
feb. 5, 10:15am

Trump is so frustrated by his Twitter ban that's he's writing out insults and asking aides to tweet them, report says
Tom Porter | Feb 4, 2021

Trump, barred from Twitter, is writing down "insults and observations," The Daily Beast reported.
He "has resorted to suggesting put-downs for others to use or post to their own Twitter," it said.
Trump is focusing on opponents in the GOP (e.g., Rep. Liz Cheney) as he tries to retain his hold over the party...

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-suggests-insults-for-aides-tweet-report-20...

86gsm235
feb. 5, 11:27am

>76 Limelite: I wonder if the 36% who oppose would fall into line under Trump’s party before supporting the Democrats. Best guess, the oppose would drop below 20% in that case.

87lriley
feb. 5, 2:34pm

I found this commentary from Nebraska's Republican Senator Ben Sasse interesting after being censured by the Nebraska Republican Party:

'Something has definitely changed over the last four years, but it's not me. Personality cults are not conservative. Lying that an election has been stolen, it's not conservative. Conspiracy theories aren't conservative. Acting like politics is a religion? It isn't conservative. The January 6 siege happened because Trump lied to you and because he riled a mob that attacked the Capitol, many of them chanting 'Hang Pence'.

Nebraskans aren't rage addicts and that's good news. You are welcome to censure me again, but let's be clear about why this is happening: it's because I still believe, as you use to, that politics isn't about the weird worship of one dude. The party could purge Trump skeptics. But I'd like to convince you that not only is that civic cancer for the nation, it's just terrible for the party'.

88davidgn
feb. 5, 6:00pm

The Pentagon has got a huge problem, and it's not new. Was once in touch with a former Australian special forces guy who had trained at certain bases in the US and encountered open white supremacy and neo-Nazism in the barracks. And this was more than a decade ago.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-pentagon-extremism/pentagon-stumped...

Maybe start here:
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2020/07/14/white-supremacists-us-military/

89lriley
feb. 5, 6:19pm

#88--I was in the Coast Guard between 1981 and 1985 and it was pretty conservative back then. The lifers particularly trended that way and they do influence a lot of those on their first enlistments. That said they didn't get it over to everybody by a long shot. But also that said the Coast Guard is one thing and the other military services are another and I can speak to what I think about them but it's more guesswork. And things change the 80's are the 80's (about 80% of enlisted when I first joined were constantly smoking weed even when we were out at sea) and what is now is something else. Younger people can be very impressionable. They are there for sure and then there are those who go into dangerous situations and come out traumatized and there's all kinds of bad that come from that.

There are a lot of black people and hispanics in our Armed Services including Mexican nationals and there is a lot of teamwork that has to be worked out between people in any given unit. Working every day with people---learning to trust in them is important. Being openly racist really works against all that and can only cause friction which is not good for the morale of a unit.

90Molly3028
Editat: feb. 5, 7:49pm

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/breaking-fox-reportedly-cancels-lou-dobbs-show/
BREAKING: Fox News Cancels Lou Dobbs’ Show

Murdoch finally saw the handwriting which has been on the wall for a very long time. A business channel with an "Alex Jones wannabe" host was never a good match.

91Limelite
feb. 9, 4:33pm

The Un-De-Trumpificationable

https://youtu.be/plUC5YaTHHA

92Limelite
Editat: feb. 10, 5:37pm

Kinzinger PAC To Go On Attack Against Trumpism'

Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) plans to target lawmakers including Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) and Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) with his new political action committee, which aims to aid GOP candidates that don’t embrace Trumpism.
. . .he has a “huge list” of members he would like to see challenged for perpetuating conspiracy theories and the unsubstantiated claim that the 2020 election was stolen.
(SNIP)
“Oh, there's a huge list. … I mean, look, all you have to do is see people like, of course, Marjorie Taylor Greene. You look at people like Matt Gaetz, who know better. I think neither of them believes the stuff they ascribe to, they just want fame,” he said during a Washington Post Live event on Wednesday. “And so then you have to look at all that stuff and say, OK, can they be defeated? Who are opponents that can actually run against them?
(SNIP)
"I want to give support to people on local levels, even people running for mayor, state reps etc. and just simply say this: I don't care what you believe, as long as you believe it: you can be pro-life, pro-choice, pro-gun, anti-gun, right?
(SNIP)
"I just want you to tell the American people the truth. And I want you to not peddle in conspiracies and use some optimism occasionally, that's a pretty low bar, but it's a low bar that eliminates a lot of people," he said.
Could his effort be the beginning of a headwind against Trumpism by the Republicans who still believe in democracy and upholding the Constitution? If it persists and grows into an effective counter-revolution to Trump's usurpation of their party into a cult of personalty, there may be hope for conservative politics. But only for those who totally repudiate Trump and Trumpism, and I doubt there are very many of them.

93Molly3028
Editat: feb. 12, 1:46pm

https://www.mediaite.com/news/nikki-haley-pronounces-trump-politically-dead-he-l...
Nikki Haley Pronounces Trump Politically Dead: He ‘Let Us Down,’ Can’t ‘Let That Ever Happen Again’

Haley has provided one of the first 'shovelfuls of dirt' which will eventually completely bury Trump's legacy for ever more. And, she circled the year 2024 on her calendar!

94lriley
feb. 12, 2:24pm

#93--she's been nothing but a Trumpian sycophant until now.

95margd
feb. 12, 2:47pm

She had a moment when she removed confederate flag from state grounds, but it's been downhill since...whee, the Trumpian mudslide!!

96Limelite
feb. 12, 3:36pm

What reasonable person could possibly believe Nikki Haley at this point in her "career" about any political judgment she makes?

Not this one. She's trying, to borrow Michael Steele on Trump, "to make herself what she's not." She's hoping to be included among the "eligibles" for the possible break-away Republican movement that we learned about yesterday.

97Limelite
feb. 13, 3:04pm

Gorgia DA Has Giuliani in Her Sights: Racketeering

Fulton County DA, Fani Willis is drawing a bead on Trump lawyer-consigliere, Rudy Julie Annie. Willis' promised "wide-ranging" investigation just might find RG in deep caca.
Ms. Willis, the district attorney of Fulton County, made it clear that the scope of her inquiry would encompass the pressure campaign on state officials by former President Donald J. Trump as well as the activities of his allies.

“Anything that is relevant to attempts to interfere with the Georgia election will be subject to review.”
(SNIP)
She and her office have indicated that the investigation will include Senator Lindsey Graham’s phone call to Mr. Raffensperger in November about mail-in ballots; the abrupt removal last month of Byung J. Pak, the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Georgia, who earned Mr. Trump’s enmity for not advancing his debunked assertions about election fraud; and the false claims that Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, made before state legislative committees.

Ms. Willis is also open to considering not just conspiracy but racketeering charges. As she put it. . .racketeering could apply to anyone who uses a legal entity — presumably anything from a government agency to that person’s own public office — to conduct overt acts for an illegal purpose. In this case, it applies to the pressure the president and his allies exerted on Georgia officials to overturn the election.
(SNIP)
She views the case before her as a critical task.

“It is really not a choice — to me, it’s an obligation, she said. “Each D.A. in the country has a certain jurisdiction that they’re responsible for. If alleged crime happens within their jurisdiction, I think they have a duty to investigate it.”
I'm betting Rudy Julie Annie is sweating more than just hair dye, hearing her determined dedication to the Rule of Law. Probably bullets are rolling down his cheeks.

98Limelite
Editat: feb. 18, 2:41pm

Ted "Gone Cruisin'" Cruz(R-TX) Blames Daughters for Cancun Spree

The now infamous deplorable DJT, Jr. look-alike fled his freezing, suffering, and dying constituents for a family get-away to sunny warm Cancun. Shamed into aborting his self-indulgent vacay, the Trump-loving senator blamed his daughters for the excursion, giving his best impersonation of the former Occupant of the WH whose time there is most memorable for his finger-pointing blame of anyone else for his own bad behavior.

Returning to Houston airport, Cruz expected he would by met by hosts of outraged Texans ready to loudly and publicly condemn him for his "full-time work on their behalf." The craven coward had his staff call Houston PD and ask for "assistance" in evacuating the airport. No evidence of "loitering with intent" by disgusted TX voters was evident to reporters who received no answers why Cruz needed an armed escort out of the airport so he could slink home without submitting to the slings and arrows he so richly deserved.

992wonderY
feb. 18, 4:08pm

>98 Limelite: Here’s hoping this decision of his is the final straw for his constituents. What a sleaze !

100Limelite
feb. 18, 4:19pm

De-Trumpification Demands End of White Privilege Supremacy

For gawd's sake -- he's the attorney general! And he killed an innocent man walking on the shoulder of the roadway with his car. South Dakota Attorney General Jason Ravnsborg will face criminal charges over a car crash that killed a man last fall, the Daily Beast reports.
Ravnsborg is charged with using a mobile electronic device, failing to drive in lane of traffic and moving from a lane unsafely, and careless driving, which are all misdemeanors.
(SNIP)
Ravnsborg was returning to Pierre on Sept. 12 from a Republican Party event at a bar and restaurant in Redfield, the Spink County seat located 72 miles away, when he hit and killed Boever, 55.
Where's the driving while impaired (still buzzed from "dinner") charge? Where's the charge of vehicular negligent homicide?!?!? Oh, yeah, it's that IOKIYAR thing again. Especially white, male, pro-Trump Republican, not any black male, non-voting driver, who'd never see the light of day for decades if it had been such.

Some attorney's general are more equal than other subjects under the Jim Crow-style law enforcement of white conservatives.

101lriley
feb. 18, 6:07pm

#100--Ravnsborg also had at least 6 speeding tickets along with other traffic violations. And I'm sorry but a man walking along a road does not in any way look like a deer.....unless your drunk out of your mind or completely stoned on something else like maybe he actually wanted to kill him for some reason. This is Gov. Kristi Noem's idea of someone credible enough to decide constitutional questions.

102mikevail
feb. 18, 8:04pm

>98 Limelite:
Maybe leaving for Mexico is Cruz's way of making America great again.

103Limelite
feb. 18, 9:00pm

>102 mikevail:

Sadly, no. He came back.

104kiparsky
feb. 18, 10:38pm

>103 Limelite: Yeah, but it was glorious while he was away. Now we know what we can aspire to: an America without Toad Cruz.

I'm ready to work to make that happen.

105Molly3028
Editat: feb. 20, 6:55pm

https://www.mediaite.com/news/gop-senator-john-thune-decries-cancel-culture-from...
GOP Senator John Thune Decries ‘Cancel Culture’ From Trump Allies Within the Republican Party

The inner workings of Trump's cult, and every cult that ever existed, involves cult followers who "religiously" cling to their cult leader. That is why Trump will remain a danger to our democracy until the day he takes his final walk into the sunset.

106JGL53
Editat: feb. 20, 10:22pm

Back to the math for a sec. (I have no advanced degree in mathematics but I can add, subtract, multiply and divide pretty well, not to mention I've always grasped the application of per cents rather easily.)

Dems and repubs are now about equal, with independents the majority. Independents pretty much slightly break for the dems, in national elections especially, in recent times.

So, the dems stay together and the repubs split - this HAS to be VERY good for the dems.

E.g., even if there is ONLY a 90-10 split, one way or the other, then the new tRUMP party and the remaining old repub party are both dead meat, pretty much.

The only way out of the dilemma of a new tRUMP party forming would be the complete dissolving of the present repub party - and I think that fairly unlikely. So "repubs", whatever their new name would be, would be electorally fucked.

I see no way around these political facts.

107SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:02am

>1 LolaWalser:
Your statements are popular, yet intellectually non-thought-out.

Trump, while in office, made a salient point: Leaders of each country should look out for their country's own interests. That's what they were elected to do. It's not a crime to say "America First" or "Greece First" or whatever.

As an aside, RE Trump's NATO policy: The US has been supporting western European countries since World War II. NATO was created to protect said countries from the threat of Russia. Yet, Germany, for instance, just signed a natural gas deal with Russia. Why, if Germany is allowing itself to be beholden to Russia for energy, should the US still be paying to "protect" such countries from Russia?

108SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:05am

>3 Limelite:
I agree with your "Drain the Swamp" suggestions in 1, 2, 3, and 9. However, 5, 7, and 8 seem a bit odd.

109SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:15am

>6 John5918:
Why reverse the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel? It IS the capital of Israel (and has been for centuries).

Domestically: US immigration rules have been extremely lax (not "strict," as you say) since the 1970s. Immigration rules for the US are much weaker than for Mexico, for example. And, in fact, Trump was no stricter than Obama about enforcement. (Those infamous "kids in cages" photos----shot in the Obama years.)

Trump was not a well-spoken man, but his policies were, in fact, completely in compliance with US law: no illegal immigration. I don't see what is so radical about that. Every other country does not allow illegal immigration. Why should the US? THAT is the "uncontroversial beginning" to a sane immigration policy.

110SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:17am

>11 LolaWalser:
How about: "Why You Don't Need to Be Nice to the Self-Righteous But Uneducated"?

111SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:21am

>15 lriley:
Israel is just protecting itself. There have been literally thousands of violent attacks against Israel from various Muslim states (and from Muslims within Israel). Very odd that you're blaming the victim.

112SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:23am

>17 Limelite:
"Qualified and dedicated personnel": Hahahahahahaha! Thanks to Trump for exposing the Deep State leftists in both the DOJ and State Department. An embarrassment to the United States and intellectual honesty.

113SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:25am

>19 margd:
One definition of "fascism" is "control of the media and education." To that, let me add "tech." The left-wing currently controls media, education, and tech sectors. Your long-winded missive above is complete Orwellian Double-Speak.

114John5918
Editat: feb. 21, 4:48am

>107 SolomonCinco: Leaders of each country should look out for their country's own interests

But not to the exclusion of the common good of the world. The perception that one's own interests have to be at odds with that of others is very short-sighted. 9/11 should have taught the USA that injustices, conflicts and poverty in small far away nations that many of you had probably never heard of can and do have a direct impact on the interests of the USA. COVID is reminding us that many problems are not limited by borders and have to be dealt with communally, not nation by nation. Moving away from internationalism and multilateralism towards isolationism and nationalism, whether it be Trump's USA or Boris' Brexit UK, is not going to serve any country's best interests.

>109 SolomonCinco: Jerusalem... IS the capital of Israel

Most countries in the world to not recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel but do recognise that three different religious communities, Jews, Christians and Muslims, and two different ethnic communities, Israelis and Arabs, have a stake in that city.

US immigration rules have been extremely lax (not "strict")

Have you ever tried to get a visa to visit the USA? Presumably not, as you are presumably a US citizen.

115SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:33am

>102 mikevail:
You don't seem to understand the definition of "hypocrisy": Leftists Gavin Newsom and Steve Adler of Austin preached "social distancing" and no travel. Yet they traveled and practiced no social distancing whatsoever.

Ted Cruz, on the other hand, has no control over the weather in Texas. Nor is a Senator responsible for the electricity or water of cities---those are local concerns. So what if Cruz goes to Mexico? I've been without water for 6 days; I'd go somewhere else, too, if I could.

116SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:36am

>105 Molly3028:
I'm a Trump supporter. And I resent being called a "cult member" and a "fascist" and a "Nazi" and a "racist." Those who disagree with Trump have been name-calling since 2016. It's ridiculous and anti-intellectual. State your policy differences rather than name-calling.

117SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:51am

>114 John5918:
Note that when Trump first heard about Covid and tried to prohibit travel to the US from China, he was called a "racist." Note also that China prohibited travel from Wuhan to other parts of China and yet allowed travel from China to other countries. Hmmmm.

9/11 is a perfect example of why US rules should be more strictly enforced.

Brexit: Euro rules allowed citizens from other countries, mainly Poland, to take UK jobs. AND tried to force the UK to take in global refugees. Why in the world should the UK have been forced to do either of those things? Brexit was a taking back of the country's sovereignty. Good for the UK. EVERY country should have control over its own borders. (When the Syrian refugee crisis was going on, I saw that the refugees refused to stay in countries like Hungary, for instance---Why? Because Hungary didn't offer the nice social programs that the UK and Germany and Sweden offered. Hmmmm. Seems like "refugees" should be grateful for whoever would take them in, not be so particular about "social programs"...)

Israel also recognizes that Jews/Christians/Muslims all have a historical stake in Jerusalem. However, the fact remains that Jerusalem was founded by King David. It's a Jewish city.

118SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 4:54am

>22 Molly3028:
I'm a white Trump supporter who is neither a "white nationalist" nor a "white supremacist." I resent being called names by those who disagree with Trump.

119SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 5:02am

>34 Limelite:
Uneducated people who can't conduct an intellectual argument resort to name-calling. I'm a Trump supporter but am neither a "white supremacist" nor "dastardly" nor a "cultist" nor a "conspiracist." (Wow---anything else you want to throw out there?)

120SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 5:05am

>36 Molly3028:
Hitler had those who disagreed with him shot and/or put in concentration camps. Conversely, every single day since Trump took office, I heard nothing but negative things about him on all major media outlets.

Are you a 12-year-old kid who has no concept of history, of what Hitler actually did? You need to stop throwing around words like "Hitler" if you don't know anything about Hitler.

121SolomonCinco
feb. 21, 5:08am

>39 Limelite:
My goodness, you're such a Drama Queen, Limelite! Those who stormed the capital were bad, but so were those all summer long who looted and rioted and set fires all over American cities. During the summer, I saw no "insurrectionist barbarian" or "rodent" epithets. Why not, Sweetie?

122John5918
feb. 21, 5:40am

>117 SolomonCinco:

Incidentally, welcome to LT and to this Pro and Con group.

123prosfilaes
feb. 21, 5:43am

>107 SolomonCinco: Trump, while in office, made a salient point: Leaders of each country should look out for their country's own interests. That's what they were elected to do. It's not a crime to say "America First" or "Greece First" or whatever.

First, no. We're all trapped on this tiny planet together, and we don't have the moral right to ignore our brothers and sisters.

Secondly, even if the goal was simply to maximize American interests, declaring that upfront is not necessarily the best thing. Even noticed how no company advertises that they want to maximize their profit? If you want to work with other nations, talk up working with other nations and how trade can help both sides, don't tell them how you're planning to abandon the friendly policies of your predecessors for more cut-throat ones.

Not only that, Trump was lousy about it. Trump asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to help him win re-election. Trump was the target of mockery by other world leaders. As with most America First people, he seems to have imagined that we were being taken advantage of by everyone else, when we have always aggressively pushed for everything we could get out of every agreement.

The US has been supporting western European countries since World War II.

And they've been supporting us. NATO was created because we were terrified of the Communist threat and we were afraid about being surrounded by Soviet-controlled nations. They've supported us on various military adventures around the world, by permitting use of bases on their soil and transit of their skies.

>109 SolomonCinco: Why reverse the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel? It IS the capital of Israel (and has been for centuries).

For centuries? The nation of Israel has existed for 70 years now. Even if we're counting the distantly related ancient kingdom, the capital of Israel was Samaria, not Jerusalem, post-division; the unified kingdom of David that had Jerusalem as its capital lasted an estimated 70 years.

In any case, so what? America First, you said; well, Israel needs us more than we need them. It costs us more politically to recognize Jerusalem than Israel is going to give us.

And, in fact, Trump was no stricter than Obama about enforcement.

He separated families at the border. This is quite well-documented.

(Those infamous "kids in cages" photos----shot in the Obama years.)

Those infamous photos? Which ones? As this article points out, most of those pictures were taken while Trump was president. There has been confusion, but it's simply not true that all or even most of those "kids in cages" photos were taken while Obama was president.

124lriley
feb. 21, 8:39am

#111--interesting Israel the victim of it's own apartheid like practices directed at a large % of its own population. Always the victim right? Gaza an open air prison and the ongoing and continuing stealing of land in the West Bank. Bullets vs. rock throwing. Really I already have figured out talking to you is going to be a real waste of my time.

125margd
Editat: feb. 21, 12:27pm

>117 SolomonCinco: Jerusalem was founded by King David. It's a Jewish city.

~ 1,000 BCE. More than 3,000 years ago.

~2,000 BCE. London is a Celtic city: (P)lowonida, meaning "river too wide to ford", was crossed by a Bronze Age bridge 1750-1285(?)

126kiparsky
feb. 21, 12:38pm

>113 SolomonCinco: One definition of "fascism" is "control of the media and education."

Really? This is hardly a definition at all, and it's certainly not a definition of fascism that I've ever seen. Care to try to repair it so it makes sense?

127kiparsky
feb. 21, 12:43pm

>117 SolomonCinco: 9/11 is a perfect example of why US rules should be more strictly enforced.

How so? And how do Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma, Parkland, Tulsa, Columbine, Wilmington, etc, etc, play into your thinking as examples of laws that should be more strictly enforced?

128jjwilson61
feb. 21, 12:55pm

>117 SolomonCinco: And London and Paris were both founded by the Romans. Does that make them Italian cities?

129Limelite
feb. 21, 2:25pm

>108 SolomonCinco:

No opinion on #4 & #6? Seems a bit odd that you don't want the corrupt Orange Shitegibbon punished, you only want the corrupt Republican Trump sycophants (like I do) purged from government.

Or am I mistaken? You're a "Deep State" conspiracy theorist and believe the Democrats and lifelong civil servants are Deep State because they withstood Trump's deplorable attempts to destroy government institutions?

I thought I set a pretty low bar. Just not low enough for Trump supporters, I guess.

130Limelite
feb. 21, 2:52pm

>121 SolomonCinco:

My such a delicate flower who collapses on the fainting couch and needs resort to the fallacy of false equivalency to revive.

Perhaps when collected, the recollection that in a democracy bad laws must be resisted, even disobeyed will come back to you. Brutal and racist police enforcement that provokes response to the brutality is self-defense.

Perhaps reviving the police fire-hosing of Civil Rights demonstrators 60 years ago aligns favorably with a flower's sensibilities of equal law enforcement that should have been applied against the MAGArats of a month ago?

You know, clean the Capitol steps of clinging scum.

Such a solution to rampaging insurrectionists would be equivalent to the treatment doled out to Freedom Marchers of the late 60s. But actually justifiable in the latter case. Don't you agree?

131Limelite
feb. 21, 3:09pm

Well looky here, America It's now fashionable for gun sucker white supremacists to pose in front of a wall of guns when making virtual public opinions.

Looks like the Congressional Boboe and Trump Sprout wing nuts are aligning themselves with bullets rather than the idea of ideas in books on shelves of bookcases that have flooded backgrounds of the virtual public domain this past year.

MAGA more, all Trumpty-Dumbpties!

132Molly3028
Editat: feb. 21, 5:02pm

https://thehill.com/homenews/politics-101/539779-almost-half-of-republicans-woul...
Almost half of Republicans would join Trump party

This is actually good news for America's democracy ~ at the present time, the Repubs make up 25% of registered voters ~ half of that would be 12/13 percent ~ only 1/8th of registered voters would continue to blindly adore the seditionist ex-prez.

>131 Limelite:
Posing in front of a wall of guns has become a GOP monkey-see-monkey-do thing this year!

133Molly3028
Editat: feb. 21, 5:01pm

>120 SolomonCinco:

I know that millions of hate-filled Germans thought the leadership of AH was a good thing for them and Germany at that time.

134JGL53
Editat: feb. 21, 8:36pm

I hope SolomonCinco is just a Russian bot - because bots have no feelings and I would hate to see anyone made to cry because of all the mean posts above that utterly put down whoever or whatever a SolomonCinco is.

lol.

135margd
Editat: feb. 22, 5:32am

>134 JGL53: 4AM-5AM.

Early morning is also when LT is showered by spam posts on ways to make extra money?
Trying not to be paranoid, but they often follow my insomniac posts. Particularly posts of a political nature, not COVID, climate?

My sharing of Navalny post on Putin's palace seems to have brought me to attention of an Internet poltergeist?

136margd
feb. 22, 6:25am

Bill Kristol @BillKristol | 7:02 PM · Feb 21, 2021
So wealthy donors make their Faustian bargain with Trump, the GOP in Congress goes full oligarchic, and state-cosseted utilities take advantage of freezing Texans.

Every rich conservative: "What's wrong with young people? Why don't they love capitalism? Must be the textbooks..."

137margd
Editat: feb. 22, 7:43am

Trump invited to address CPAC.
Scalise refuses to say Biden win is legitimate.

PoliticsGirl @IAmPoliticsGirl | 12:28 AM · Feb 22, 2021
Republicans are enabled and shameless. When will they be held accountable?
1:45 ( https://twitter.com/IAmPoliticsGirl/status/1363722289431207942 )

138Molly3028
Editat: feb. 22, 9:55am

CPAC, etc.

A life-long con man, cult personality, liar, twice impeached prez and seditionist is the leader of the GOP cult, and he will be the featured speaker at the meeting. Clueless, gullible and resentment-filled voters want to continue their mission to bring Lincoln's party down to their level, and many of the powers-that-be in the party are going along with that stunt. The Dems and Independents have to step up and keep the country from also going down the hill to that level.

139Molly3028
Editat: feb. 22, 12:18pm

Ruling on Trump’s Tax Returns by SCOTUS

Thank you, Michael Cohen!

THIS is going to be the end of Trump ever thinking about running for president. Hopefully, it will also stop stupid GOPers from sending money his way to do so. The de-Trumpification begins in earnest today. The Supremes just gave the spineless GOPers the gift of a lifetime.

140Limelite
feb. 22, 12:41pm

In re CPAC -- Pence won't be attending. His awareness of those folks who are CPAC-ers as potential actual assassins must be pretty high.

In re Trump vs. The Long Arm of the Law, little hands lose. As long as Vance, his team, the Grand Jury, and any subsequent juries get to see them, I'll be content to remain ignorant of their contents. Why? Because those returns are going to get Trump the criminal attention he's earned and -- if justice is blind and equal -- the orange wardrobe he richly deserves. Hopefully unto death.

And in the best of all possible worlds, the widening scope of Vance's investigation nets his criminal offspring, his criminal CFO, bookkeeper, and accountant, his favored bankers, and business partners.

While I'm at it, if wishes are granted, Vance's investigation will span federal investigations and prosecutions, including the pursuit of foreign actors as individuals, not just companies and corporations. All of which will lead to the full exposure of the 2016 election interference, the money laundering schemes, the pay for play schemes, and the trail of money from Russian oligarchs and Putin into Trump's war chest.

Lordy, I hope there are tapes, too.

141Limelite
Editat: feb. 24, 1:38pm

Insurrectionist Eye-Gouger, Pipe-Beater, & Trump Supporter Ex-NYPD Cop

Turned himself in to FBI after his perp poster circulated for a month.
Nearing two months after the siege, the FBI continues to make arrests throughout the country. Since the violent riot, a number of tri-state residents have been arrested and charged with various crimes in connection to the deadly event, including a New York City sanitation worker, the brother of a retired NYPD officer, an MTA worker and an Upper West Side community leader.
Those details demonstrate the wide and deep infiltration of Trump fantasists in society. What seems common to all are factors of an affinity to conspiracy theories, belief in white supremacy, deep-seated anger and/or disgruntlement over minority rights and liberalism that dominates normal society.

Why so many military or militarized occupations produce people who fit that profile obviously needs to be addressed. Once you put a gun in a young (mostly male's) hands and give them some civic authority, why do so many of them think they possess the authority to use violence against that which irritates their personal attitudes?

142lriley
Editat: feb. 24, 7:35am

More on the South Dakota AG Ravnsborg:

https://www.yahoo.com/victim-south-dakota-ag-didn-052534842.html

Again this is the guy that Kristi Noem--South Dakota's governor wanted to decide the constitutionality of Federal mandates issued by the Biden administration. Ravnsborg told police he thought he hit a deer. He left his victim Joseph Boever to die along the side of the road for an entire night. Boever's glasses were found inside Ravnsborg vehicle meaning his face actually went through the windshield.

Ravnsborg has been charged so far with 3 misdemeanors for the accident. To me this seems like it should at least be vehicular homicide.

143Limelite
Editat: feb. 24, 7:26pm

Anti-Trump Republicans Must Explore Options: No Room for Dissent in Trump’s GOP

National Republican Senatorial Committee Chairman Rick Scott issued a public letter yesterday with the subject line “REPUBLICAN CIVIL WAR HAS BEEN CANCELLED.” If that isn't a Surrender Monkey memo to DJT, I don't know what is. Talk about Republican censorship and a full-blown exhibition of Republican cancel culture, there you have it. If you don't march in goose step with Trumpty Dumbpties, then you're OUT!

So, what's a poor old-fashioned GOP-er to do now that Rick Scott has declared the elephant dead?

1. Quit and leave politics?
2. Band together and boycott unless conditions are met?
3. Secede and start a neo-Republican Party?
4. Or re-join the Reality Based Community in politics, i.e. the Democratic Party?

When between a rock and a hard place the option is really only one: choose the lesser of two weevils. In short, choose anything but surrender.

144kiparsky
feb. 24, 4:24pm

>143 Limelite: Bearing in mind that their fundamental policy differences won't have changed, I'm not sure I like the idea of an influx of former Republicans into the Democratic party. It would certainly be interesting, but I'm not sure it's an interesting that I want to see.

145Limelite
feb. 24, 7:30pm

>144 kiparsky:

We live in interesting times because of an ancient Chinese curse that was placed on us back in the mid-19th C. because it turned out the US wasn't Gold Mountain. It was slave on the trans-continental RR and "keep off the grass."

146Limelite
feb. 24, 7:57pm

Rep. MTG (R-GA) Destined for Ass-Kicking in '22 Re-election Bid?

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene is likely to face threats from both parties when she runs for reelection next year. This opinion is held by both. . .
. . .Republican and Democratic leaders in Georgia's 14th Congressional District (interviewed) after a rash of scandals put Greene in the national spotlight and resulted in the House of Representatives voting to remove her from committees earlier this month and further, thanks to her connections to the QAnon conspiracy-theory movement and ardent support of false election-fraud claims.

Greene's behavior has attracted attention from Democratic upstarts in her district in the northwestern part of the state as well as challengers within her own party. . .
Money will be a big stumbling block for her. If she has any major donors at all it will be the Orange Florida Man. Corporate donations have dried up to Republicans who are crazy MAGARats. Coca-Cola is Georgia, Georgia is Coca-Cola. And Coca-Cola is going on a Democratic Party diet. Totally off Trump backed candidates and the RNC.

About the only support she's guaranteed to see will come from the Southern Baptist segment of voters who still harken to its roots -- the pro-slavery break-away branch of the Baptist Church, the refuge of Southern white supremacists.

147lriley
feb. 24, 10:22pm

#146--her district is like +30R--the chances of a democrat winning it is pretty damn slim. She will raise small donations and they'll come from all over the country. Republicans and more conservative democrats think they can make runs at Ocasio Cortez or Omar too. Not for the foreseeable future. Their opponents can raise a lot of money but actually winning is a pipedream. I don't see Taylor Greene having a problem winning reelection either particularly if Trump is still more or less the head of that party. I think we're stuck with her for a while. This is a part of Georgia that's still in the 1950's.

148John5918
feb. 24, 11:31pm

New record as estimated 18m Americans identify as LGBTQ, poll finds (Guardian)

Gallup finds increase of 60% between 2012 and 2020 of adults who identify as LGBTQ, in reflection of ‘the way society is changing’...


Presumably this is another aspect of the changing demographics in the USA which will not be good news for the electoral hopes of the right wing.

149kiparsky
feb. 25, 9:12am

>148 John5918: which will not be good news for the electoral hopes of the right wing.

It's not that clear to me what this will mean in terms of electoral politics. The raw number 18 million isn't likely to be enough to swing a lot of elections if it's distributed evenly across states, or concentrated in areas which are already mostly voting in what we might call a reality-based fashion.

On the other hand, if it's mostly representing an upswing in more conservative areas, it might be a trailing indicator of changing attitudes in those areas, which should indeed give the bigots some heartburn. Selling heteronormative bigotry does get harder in a climate of rising acceptance.

150kiparsky
feb. 25, 10:55am

Heh.
Looks like the Former Guy is not the only Donald Trump to have been deposed.

151Limelite
Editat: feb. 26, 3:44pm

Batshit Crazy GA Republican Rep. Has Democratic Challenger

Holly McCormack of Ringgold, GA will challenge the Greene Deplorable for the District 14 seat in the House of Representatives. She bills herself as an advocate for small businesses who would fight against the Republican Lie Machine that has filled people's heads with "noise" rather than emphasizing democratic ideals. The behavior and words of 'Mad Marge' prompted her decision to become a candidate. "(She) actively undermines Democracy on a daily basis. Of course her allies were members of the Capitol mob. The question is what do we do next? One option is to beat her in 2022."

It will be an uphill battle in deep red white supremacist territory of the state. However, the 2020 election demonstrated that GA is up for grabs and the times they are a-changin'. Perhaps the citizens in this district will be forced to confront their shame in electing the hateful Greene, who has proven herself so far to be nothing more than a bigoted seditionist.

152lriley
feb. 26, 4:27pm

#151--I agree that Georgia is absolutely up for grabs. I just don't see it happening in district 14. McCormack will probably raise a lot of money though but like Omar or Ocasio-Cortez's challengers it will be money that just goes to waste. The area around Atlanta though is a big problem for republicans.