Fraud database

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Fraud database

2lriley
Editat: nov. 27, 2020, 6:50am

Bye-Don. Goodbye. Bye-Don. See you later. Don't come back too soon. In fact, don't come back at all.

3JGL53
Editat: nov. 27, 2020, 11:22am

Based on the historical record I would estimate there were many attempts at voter fraud in the just concluded national election.

Nearly all of which were republican (white-supremacist)-based.

The fraudsters did not prevail and are just a bunch of clowns.

Fuck republicans. I wish the bastards would go back to their native countries (Germany?) and in future leave our country alone.

4aspirit
nov. 27, 2020, 12:36pm

>3 JGL53: Germany clearly doesn't want Trumpster immigrants. Maybe these people would be welcome in the rural areas of the British Isles or back in Russia.

5Earthling1
des. 4, 2020, 2:13pm

"But in the aftermath of the November 2016 election, which Trump won by 306 to 232 electoral votes, both of the named electors in each aforementioned case were committed to Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton but did not vote for her. In Colorado, Michael Baca, a Clinton elector, cast his ballot for then Ohio governor John Kasich; in Washington, Peter Bret Chiafalo voted for Republican Colin Powell.

These two votes were not isolated events, as ten electors followed the same path in an attempt to block Donald Trump from becoming president by persuading enough Republican electors to defect so that Trump’s total would fall below 270 votes.

Their acts of defiant independence brought forth prompt responses. Colorado replaced Baca with a new elector who voted for Clinton; Washington fined Chiafalo $1,000 for his action."

https://www.hoover.org/research/beware-faithless-electors

6Limelite
des. 5, 2020, 5:35pm

7davidgn
Editat: des. 5, 2020, 6:46pm

>6 Limelite: As of 2015:
Poll: Half of Republicans still believe WMDs found in Iraq
https://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/poll-republicans-wmds-iraq-114016

So yeah, that's about right.

8Limelite
des. 5, 2020, 7:00pm

>7 davidgn:

I won't ask what percentage of Republicans still believe the world is flat. Wouldn't want to embarrass anyone around here.

9Earthling1
des. 8, 2020, 11:57pm

Why Pennsylvania Mail-in-Ballot Changes Are Unconstitutional

October, 2019, fourteen months ago, the Republican state legislature of Pennsylvania passed an omnibus bill called Act 77. In Act 77 they included language there changing the election laws to allow universal mail-in voting. The problem is, Pennsylvania, being an old state, having an old constitution, one of the original state legislatures didn’t allow that, there wasn’t even early voting in Pennsylvania. And the only way you could have a mail-in vote was through the absentee ballot, and you had to go through a process there, a multi-step process in order to get an absentee ballot.

Well, you might say, well what about Covid-19? In October, 2019, there was no Covid-19, was there? There was no virus.

This push for mail-in voting has been going on with the Democrats for at least a decade. One of the first places they imposed it was in California, and they’ve tried to do this in every state. So the Republican state legislature in Pennsylvania buckled. They passed it as I said in an omnibus bill, and the Democrat governor, who is a leftist, signed it almost immediately. And in fact, in all of the statewide offices in Pennsylvania, you have left-wing Democrats in those offices, and you have a Republican legislature.

Okay, that’s the mail-in voting, what else happened? What else happened was, the governor didn’t think it went far enough. He went to the legislature and he said, you know the signature requirements, we really shouldn’t have that, the postmark requirements, we really don’t need that, these other requirements that it has to be in by election day, there ought to be a few more days after election day where we can count the ballots, and the legislature said, no, no, we’re not going to do that. He said, oh yes you are.

So he winds up going to the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania has seven justices. A couple of years ago they had an election for three justices, the republicans really weren’t paying attention to it, the democrats were, and they backed three hardcore leftists for the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. Among other things, they were thinking of 2020.

The labor unions poured in a fortune, the teacher unions poured in fortune, the usual groups poured in a fortune, and they won all three seats. And now the makeup of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court is, as I said the members are elected, is five to two Democrat. And the Democrats, when it comes to election law, those five stick together. Much like the three Democrats and John Roberts on the US Supreme Court.

So, what did the Democrats do? They said, well you know what, we have a good idea, a few months before the election, they said, yes, no signatures required, you don’t need signature comparisons, you don’t need a postal date, and if the postal date is smudged, you are to count it anyway, oh and yes, even though election day ends on Tuesday at 8pm ET, we are going to extend it to 5pm ET on Friday.

They had no legal or constitutional basis for doing any of that. So they violated Article II Section 1 Clause 2 of the United States Constitution which leaves the power to the state legislature to make the election laws.

The moment the state legislature in October 2019 passed the change to its election laws with mail-in voting as the base, they violated the state constitution of Pennsylvania. Now, why is that? Under the constitution of Pennsylvania, if there are to be any election law changes, you have to amend the constitution. Did they amend the constitution? No. What’s required to amend the constitution of Pennsylvania? It’s very complicated.

There needs to be a majority vote of both houses of the state legislature, not once, but twice. Then there needs to be a respite. Then there needs to be ads in at least two papers in every county in Pennsylvania, all 67 counties, then there needs to be a respite. Then, finally, the citizenry of Pennsylvania get to vote on whether or not they want the amendment, it has to be on the ballot. Did that happen? No, it didn’t happen. The citizenry of Pennsylvania, we talk about disenfranchisement, they weren’t asked to vote on this change in election laws for mail-in ballots let alone all these other changes that the supreme court made, they weren’t asked at all, they were utterly disenfranchised.

So the state legislature in October 2019 acted unconstitutionally. The governor, by signing it, acted unconstitutionally. The state supreme court by changing even the unconstitutional law acted unconstitutionally, plus violated Article II.

This matter has now been appealed to the United States Supreme Court.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/12/07/levin_why_pennsylvania_mail-i...

10davidgn
des. 9, 2020, 1:31am

For the sake of argument, let's say the Supreme Court throws out PA, or gives it to Trump. Result: Biden wins.

11davidgn
des. 9, 2020, 1:33am

And since I've been under a rock past few hours: nothing doing anyhow.
https://www.wtae.com/article/supreme-court-rejects-gop-bid-to-halt-bidens-pennsy...

12John5918
des. 9, 2020, 1:42am

>11 davidgn: Same story from the Guardian, plus another last ditch attempt to overturn the election results:

Supreme court rejects Republican bid to overturn Biden's Pennsylvania victory

The US supreme court on Tuesday turned away a long-shot bid by Republicans to overturn the election results in Pennsylvania, where Joe Biden defeated Donald Trump in the 2020 race. The suit, filed on behalf of Mike Kelly, a Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, took issue with a 2019 state law that adopted no-excuse absentee voting, and argued that the expansion of mail-in voting was illegal. Several courts, including the Pennsylvania supreme court, had already denied the request, noting that Kelly waited until after the 2020 election to file his suit when the law was in place well before the election. The case is the first piece of 2020 election litigation to reach the US supreme court, which has a 6-3 conservative majority including three Trump appointees. But the decision is not a surprise. As is customary with emergency requests, the supreme court did not offer an explanation for its decision. There were no noted dissents...


Texas sues four states over election results in effort to help Donald Trump

The state of Texas, aiming to help Donald Trump upend the results of the US election, decisively won by Joe Biden, said on Tuesday it has filed a lawsuit against the states of Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin at the US supreme court, calling changes they made to election procedures amid the coronavirus pandemic unlawful. The extraordinary and probably long-shot lawsuit, announced by the Republican attorney general of Texas, Ken Paxton, was filed directly with the supreme court, as is permitted for certain litigation between states... The lawsuit represents the latest legal effort intended to reverse the Republican president’s loss to Democratic candidate Biden in the 3 November election, which had appeared to be running out of steam after dozens of losses by the Trump campaign in its court challenges over the past month...

13Earthling1
des. 9, 2020, 2:23am

You are too easily persuaded. You must think judges are perfect.

I refuse to discuss foreign sourced commentary. You are British. This is our election, not yours. Don't butt in. It's not about you.

14lriley
des. 9, 2020, 3:47am

Donald Trump is pretty much down to two options after this Texas gambit---give it up or stage a military style coup attempt. If he tries the coup and fails he'll really be at Biden's mercy---and keep in mind Trump has brought back the firing squad. Paula White will lead him on his final walk--from prison cell to a certain point. Sandals. Prison uniform. Wild look in his eyes. Blindfold? cigarette? half minute for his (in)famous last words? We'll all be on pins and needles waiting to hear if Biden makes that call to spare him at the last moment. He loves me. He loves me not.

15Earthling1
des. 9, 2020, 8:00am

It's impossible for the PRESIDENT to stage a "coup" if he is already PRESIDENT. Think. Don't hijack the thread.

"I want to explain why “no evidence of voter fraud” is a liberal con. While the concept of evidence has meaning in the law, which distinguishes between direct and circumstantial evidence, it is a relatively recent development. In the 4th century BC, Plato created the concept of epistemology (the theory of knowledge) and philosophers have been thinking about it ever since. What we have to say about the concept of evidence is highly relevant to the currently raging controversy about voter fraud. Our story flatly contradicts the one the liberals are pushing."

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/12/the_evidence_game_liberals_are_...

16lriley
Editat: des. 9, 2020, 9:31am

#15--yeah, I agree. It will be well worth our time if the shitegibbon actually tries that and ends up getting executed by firing squad--though you might be going a little far by wanting to stick a stake through his heart and chopping off his head afterwards. Really after the first time he will be dead enough--no point in turning it into that much of a spectacle. Do it once and do it as cleanly as possible.

17Earthling1
des. 9, 2020, 10:02am

>16 lriley: It's a felony to threaten the president.

18bohemima
des. 9, 2020, 10:53am

>17 Earthling1:
Sedition is also a felony

19lriley
des. 9, 2020, 11:03am

#17--thanks. You have a good day too.

20kiparsky
des. 9, 2020, 11:08am

>14 lriley: Donald Trump is pretty much down to two options after this Texas gambit---give it up or stage a military style coup attempt

Having seen his idea of an "elite strike force" in action, the image of Trump trying to execute a coup is just too hilarious for words. And besides, who would he get to help him with this coup? The military is an institution that's based on respect for authority, good discipline, and competence. These are not people who are going to be well-disposed towards Trump and his people - particularly not after the way he's attacked their institutions over the last four years.

21Earthling1
des. 9, 2020, 11:17am

>18 bohemima: Tell that to Black Lives Matter. They are the ones guilty of sedition, not the Republicans.

22Earthling1
des. 9, 2020, 11:19am

Coup: Another word the brilliant bookworms here don't understand. Along with sedition, trolling, narcissism, projection...

23JGL53
des. 9, 2020, 11:25am

tRUMP is an fat orange turd that is going to be flushed out of the body politic in 42 days. All horseshit to the contrary is boring and useless bloviating.

Earthling - time to find a new hobby besides beating a dead horse ..... i.e., tRUMP.

LOL.

24lriley
des. 9, 2020, 11:29am

#20--Who?---that's a good question. Because if you're a military officer you're really putting your ass on the line. Mike Flynn has suggested it.....but Mike Flynn currently doesn't have troops he commands. The head of the joint chiefs of staff Milley---I don't think he has the stomach for it. A good % of our troops are overseas and National Guard units are at least to a degree under the control of governor's of their respective states and as we've been seeing most republican governors are not too keen on Trump's refusal to accept defeat.

Trump's most dependable allies are like the 3 percenters and the militia groups to be found here and there. His way of staging a coup would be to call out goofballs like that.

25lriley
Editat: des. 9, 2020, 11:32am

#21--yes, twilight of your idols. It's all over....that's what I've been telling you. Time to find a new slob to worship.

26kiparsky
des. 9, 2020, 12:08pm

>24 lriley: I think Milley has made it clear that he's been burned once by Trump's insanity and he's not going to be burned again. I don't know of any high-ranking officers who would take part in that sort of nonsense. Not that I'm very well up on my high-ranking officers in the military, but enough of them have spoken out to make me think we're safe enough there. Possibly there's some "little corporal" out there who would relish the opportunity, but personally I'd put the probability of a military coup against the legitmately-elected Biden/Harris administration at "vanishingly small" and the odds of success for such a project to be even smaller.

The future is being written now, and while I could be wrong I don't think it includes any attempted coup. It seems likely that we're going to see Trump continuing to smash up the Republican party. Eventually, he will either succeed in establishing his control of organization or its ideology, or they'll reject him. In either case, you end up with a seriously broken GOP at war with itself, which is both an opportunity and a danger. The remnants of the Trump movement will be able to send more Q-believers to state government and to the House, which will of course cause disruption and chaos, as intended, but I think there's little risk of long-term damage there.
While he's waging his war on the Republicans, Trump will also be distracted by legal battles. It's clear that he's going to be spending a lot of his declining years sitting in court. If he doesn't get better at picking lawyers, he might well end up serving time. Or, given his current legal team's performance to date, he might end up in the electric chair - they're really none too sharp altogether.

27bohemima
Editat: des. 9, 2020, 12:26pm

>26 kiparsky:

A look at easily available clips of Mr. Trump from, say, the early 2020’s, or even over the course of the last four years will reveal an obvious and pitiable decline in Mr. Trump’s mental acuity. That’s probably not reversible, based on hundreds of thousands of cases of various forms of dementia.

Before anyone starts fulminating that I’m denigrating the president, quite the opposite is true. I’ve taken care of people with dementia. It’s not an insult to speak about an observable physical and mental phenomenon; dementia is a disease process. And a heartbreaking one for all involved.

I’m sure the stress of being president has added to the rapidity of the downward course. But it will continue, at a steady pace, from now on.

I don’t like Mr. Trump. I despise what he stands for, and I despise the cheap, cruel, divisive tactics he uses to bully others.

But I wouldn’t wish this scenario on anyone. And his caretakers will be even more unfortunate.

Edited for clarity

28kiparsky
des. 9, 2020, 12:26pm

>27 bohemima: I think you're probably right. And yes, it's a sad thing to watch, no matter who it's happening to.

One nitpick: I'm not sure the presidency has been all that stressful for Trump. It's not like he's been taking the job all that seriously. If he had, he might have accomplished something.

29lriley
des. 9, 2020, 12:56pm

#26--someone like Flynn probably would but as I pointed out he does not have a command. But they'd need more than just him---they'd need more than just one command and they'd also be taking a chance that their troops (or not enough of them) would follow them. I also think they'd lose parts of the country right off such as the New England and Atlantic states--the West Coast states for sure and the southwestern states excluding Texas as well as maybe some midwestern states--particularly Illinois and all that would add up to more than half the population.

So then Washington DC is very much an African American city. They'd have to have the tanks out for sure surrounding the White House. Things would explode there and things would burn. The military as currently constituted do not have the personnel numbers nor the logistical power barring nuclear weapons to wipe out and destroy so as to be able to control large swathes of the country. I'd be looking for mass desertions from the armed forces and I would think the National Guard for the most part would not answer the call to fight beside Trump.

So to me they could try a coup for sure if they can get enough military brass and some units together but they'd be doomed to failure. Trump has already lost 10 standing republican Senators in that they've acknowledged Biden's win. That's shameful on the part of the deniers but 10 is not an insignificant number. Quite a number of republican governors as well. Anyone who thinks Chris Sununu, Charlie Baker, Larry Hogan or now Brian Kemp or Doug Ducey is going to be on his side for a coup has got rocks in their head. They're already on the other side from him on this and he can circle the White House with tanks but he'll be still be smack dab in the middle of enemy territory right off the bat. All of DC, Virginia and Maryland voted against him and it wasn't even close. If he tried it would be an astoundingly stupid thing to do but then you know he's astoundingly stupid.

30kiparsky
des. 9, 2020, 1:24pm

>29 lriley: I suppose we'll see what develops.

31Earthling1
des. 9, 2020, 3:15pm

Don't hijack the thread.

32Earthling1
des. 9, 2020, 3:19pm

"Below is my column in USA Today on the implications of the appointment of U.S. Attorney John Durham as a Special Counsel. House Intelligence Committee Adam Schiff and other Democrats have already denounced the move and called for the next Attorney General to consider rescinding the appointment. While Schiff previously called for legislation to protect Special Counsel Robert Mueller to complete his work without interference from the Attorney General, he ramped up the rhetoric against Durham as leading a “politically motivated investigation.” Durham was previously praised by Democrats and Republicans alike as an independent, apolitical, and honest prosecutor. After insisting that the public has a right to see what has been uncovered over years of investigation by Mueller, they are now pushing to end the Durham investigation and forestall any final public report."

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/12/04/barrs-appointment-of-special-counsel-leave...

33Limelite
Editat: des. 9, 2020, 3:32pm

>8 Limelite: All of Us Are Embarrassed

Survey Monkey says, the fraud database for flat-Earthers is even between liberals and conservatives at less than 3%. At least before July, 2019.

This data doesn't reflect the sky-rocketing belief in conspiracies and fraudulent stories (myths and baseless rumors) that we see on the right in 2020. Need to do another survey.

34bohemima
Editat: des. 9, 2020, 3:40pm

>28 kiparsky: Fair point. Still, just the endless lying has to take a toll, even on him.

35kiparsky
des. 9, 2020, 3:58pm

>34 bohemima: Maybe he's like one of those fish that's (supposedly) evolved to live in sewage, and now fresh water is toxic to them? Maybe if he stops lying, he'll just seize up.

I mean, he's been lying constantly for the last five years that people have been tracking it, and presumably it didn't start there. Maybe it's just "lie or die" for him now.

But I suppose we're digressing a bit. After all, this thread is really supposed to be about Trump's fraudulent claims about the election results, right?

36Limelite
des. 9, 2020, 4:17pm

Trump fraudsters humiliate themselves as they cite their own poll failures as proof of a rigged election.
______________________________________
Grammar Nazi, Thread Nazi, Vocabulary Nazi. Heck, let's call a spade a spade: Group Nazi.

When one doesn't feel needed and is a sore loser, one makes oneself into a martinet in order to dictate and pontificate as if occupying a position of authority.
______________________________________

That's a nice fraud, but there isn't any money in it. Unless. . .You're Don the Con Boy and bilk the rubes out of $200M (so far) for his hapless conspiracy that he won when the truth is he's the Biggest Election LOSER. Or, if you can't be an Orange Shitegibbon, try monetizing fraud by becoming a RWNJ "pollster," like Trafalgar Group, even Rasmussen Report, or Democracy Institute (even the name is a fraud!).

Surrounded by dead Krakens and moribund lawsuits, Trumpty-Dumbpties have to invent a "new" fraud scheme to fan their smoldering loser rage into flaming conspiracy rage -- again. They've chosen: Polling Data! Because
. . .it was mathematically impossible for Joe Biden to have crushed Donald Trump because faux-intellectual Republican pollsters have furrowed their brows and said so.

“There must have been fraud in this election! Our pollsters couldn’t have been this wrong!”

The small cottage industry of right-wing propagandists masquerading as pollsters is actually citing its own failure to predict the 2020 results accurately as proof positive that the election was rigged. It’s a stupid enough argument to appeal to the Trump base.

NYT had a good laugh at Trafalgar with a story announcing, Trafalgar had “Michigan, Florida and Arizona in the president’s column.” (That's 27 ECVs wrong); it predicted Trump wins by an easy 4.3 percent in Georgia, 1.9 percent in Pennsylvania and .7 percent in Nevada. (another 42 electoral votes missed, totaling 69 in the wrong column).
There's more at the link about Rasmussen and DI who also were gung-ho Trump landslide that somehow magically mathematically "morphed," as in accurate ballot counts added up to, a Biden landslide!

We see exhibited daily that RWNJs can't be wrong, because their Cult Leader told the world, using the method of ad nauseum lying, that he won and the election was stolen if the math proved that he LOST. Consequently the "pollsters" had to adopt the lie, too. So, they find themselves in the humiliating position of denouncing simple addition as a conspiracy theory to steal the election and "give" it to Biden.

Gee, I hope no one here placed a bet based on those "pollsters'" predictions, especially since Trafalgar was the least egregiously wrong. Another's predeiction was magically mathematically morphed into a 96 ECV phuck up.
But if you bet the farm on the Real Clear Politics (RCP) “no tossup” final polls, you got 48 states right, missing only Florida and Georgia, one in each direction.

This much is clear: If RCP had missed the mark by 94 electoral votes, no sane person would be citing that as proof of cheating in the election. But if you’re on the Right trying to rationalize Trump’s epic loss, who needs sanity?

37prosfilaes
des. 9, 2020, 7:59pm

>36 Limelite: I feel more confident about this election and the 2016 election because the pollsters were roughly correct. Looking through the predictions on 270toWin, in 2020, there were three or four states with disagreements: Florida, Georgia, Arizona and NC, and Biden didn't need any of those to win. I understand that if pollsters I trusted were way off, I might worry about cheating.

38Earthling1
des. 9, 2020, 8:33pm

This isn't a book forum. It's a circle jerk.

39aspirit
des. 9, 2020, 8:56pm

Hey, has anyone else noticed a second ago that we're on a book site? I did! To celebrate being here, I'm going to mention a book. Um... how about... White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide by Carol Anderson? That book looks good.

Also, I've been wanting to read Our Time Is Now: Power, Purpose, and the Fight for a Fair America by Stacey Abrams. That's surprisingly popular at my library. One of these I'll check it out.

40lriley
des. 9, 2020, 8:57pm

#39--I think I might look up the Anderson book.

41Limelite
Editat: des. 9, 2020, 11:36pm

The Fraudulent TX Lawsuit to Nullify Election in GA, MI, WI, PA
Duty To Warn@duty2warn

In response to requests that Maryland join Texas' lawsuit, Maryland AG Frosh writes:

"Maryland will NOT be joining the #Texaslawsuit. The suit is a cesspool of disproved charges, wild speculation, insupportable arguments and silly gibberish. Joe Biden is the President-Elect."

4:33 PM · Dec 9, 2020
Addendum: As they say in the military, "Fuck you. Strong letter to follow."

42MsMixte
des. 10, 2020, 9:55am

Do some of the contributors here follow this pattern? Why yes, they do.

https://www.salon.com/2020/12/09/trump-voters-dont-really-believe-biden-stole-th...

43Earthling1
des. 10, 2020, 10:08am

Nope. And if you are getting information from Salon.com, that says a lot.

44John5918
des. 10, 2020, 10:29am

US election: YouTube to ban videos alleging widespread voter fraud (BBC)

YouTube said on Wednesday it would start removing content that falsely alleges that widespread voter fraud changed the result of the US election. The update applies to all new content, including videos from President Donald Trump. The company had previously labelled potentially misleading election videos, adding links to accurate information...

Mr Trump and senior Republicans have repeatedly made unsubstantiated claims that the election was "rigged". Trump's lawyers have failed to provide evidence of this. The announcement comes after a "safe harbour" deadline - which sets a date by which states need to certify the results of the presidential election. "Yesterday was the safe harbour deadline for the US Presidential election and enough states have certified their election results to determine a President-elect," said YouTube. It also said that the move was in line with its historical approach to US presidential elections...

45John5918
des. 10, 2020, 10:35am

>42 MsMixte:

Interesting comment. I would also add that perhaps people assume that other people will behave the same way that they would. If you are a democrat (with a small d), you believe democracy is a higher priniciple than whether or not your favoured candidate or party wins power and you act accordingly. If you're not very democratic (small d again), you may well believe that winning power is more important than democracy, and again act accordingly. If you're willing to subvert democracy, you naturally assume that the other party is also willing to subvert democracy. It would appear at the moment in the USA that Republicans are less democratic (small d) than Democrats (big D) are.

46Earthling1
des. 10, 2020, 10:35am

The BBC and The Guardian are unreliable sources.

47Earthling1
des. 10, 2020, 10:36am

"a higher priniciple"

And this is where the fanaticism begins.

48John5918
des. 10, 2020, 10:44am

>46 Earthling1:

So you don't believe that YouTube is going to remove content which falsely claims widespread voter fraud? The BBC got it wrong? They made up those quotes from YouTube?

I was once witness to one of the occasions when BBC got it very wrong, over forty years ago. There I was, listening to BBC World Service while staying with some Irish nuns who ran a hospital in Uganda, when we heard BBC telling us that armed men were attacking the bishop's house, which was within sight and earshot of where we sitting. We looked and listened carefully, but no gunshots and no attack, and indeed the good bishop was enjoying his evening meal. Many years later BBC aired a programme about some of their most glaring errors, and that one featured in it. They had received a report from a single source which had always proved reliable in the past, and they broadcast it without double checking. In this instance their source was mistaken. But the occasional errors, which BBC is happy to admit and correct, show how professional BBC usually is. I have frequently been phoned by BBC and other international media to double-check reports which they have received. Pity they didn't know me that time back in Uganda!

49John5918
Editat: des. 10, 2020, 11:06am

>47 Earthling1:

Are you implying that you don't believe in the principle of democracy? That you believe that power for your party or candidate is more important than democracy? That believing in and working for democracy is fanaticism?

50aspirit
des. 10, 2020, 11:31am

YouTube Official Blog: "Supporting the 2020 U.S. election" (Dec 9)

Yesterday was the safe harbor deadline for the U.S. Presidential election and enough states have certified their election results to determine a President-elect. Given that, we will start removing any piece of content uploaded today (or anytime after) that misleads people by alleging that widespread fraud or errors changed the outcome of the 2020 U.S. Presidential election, in line with our approach towards historical U.S. Presidential elections. For example, we will remove videos claiming that a Presidential candidate won the election due to widespread software glitches or counting errors. We will begin enforcing this policy today, and will ramp up in the weeks to come. As always, news coverage and commentary on these issues can remain on our site if there’s sufficient education, documentary, scientific or artistic context.

51lriley
des. 10, 2020, 11:57am

Donald Trump's turning into an orange blip (or is that orange blimp?).

52MsMixte
des. 10, 2020, 2:26pm

>45 John5918: I do believe that there are quite a few in the cult who truly believe that Trump won. These are probably people who live in places where there are very few people who are not conservatives, and where the liberals don't put up yard signs. For instance, where I live, I do not need some yahoo coming along and shooting my horses because of my political leanings! Therefore, the people living in certain areas receive the impression that EVERYONE feels and votes the same way they do, and are shocked when a liberal wins an election.

But there are just as many, if not more, who know that Trump didn't win. These are the people who simply want to hang onto power, and who fear change.

53Earthling1
des. 10, 2020, 10:42pm

You don't know what a cult is.

54Limelite
des. 13, 2020, 4:37pm

55MsMixte
des. 13, 2020, 8:58pm

This thread is entitled Fraud Database.

Have any cases of fraud been logged yet? I haven't seen any, although I must admit there are quite a few posts (currently 15, actually) which may contain such information.

56KAzevedo
des. 13, 2020, 9:04pm

>55 MsMixte: Nope. I admit to reading every one and not a sighting of any non-debunked evidence anywhere. At this point the poor fellow(?) seems to be posting merely to see his moniker in print.

57MsMixte
des. 13, 2020, 9:50pm

>56 KAzevedo: Thank you for taking the hit for me. I have tried to find credible cases of fraud, but have not succeeded in doing so, other than finding the odd Republican or two who decided to vote his or her dead relative's ballot.

58Earthling1
des. 13, 2020, 11:06pm

>55 MsMixte: One has to be able to distinguish between fact and opinion. One has to be able to think for oneself. If it's OK to believe whatever Daddy Media tells you, then I can see why you have drawn the wrong conclusions. The truth passes you like a train.

59Earthling1
des. 13, 2020, 11:07pm

"I have tried to find credible cases of fraud"

You haven't tried very hard. You are looking in the wrong place.

60John5918
des. 13, 2020, 11:18pm

>58 Earthling1:

This "think for yourself" trope seems to prompt a "look in a mirror" response. Why do you assume that you are the only one thinking for yourself when actually you are the one lapping up right wing fake news sources? Has it never occurred to you that actually the people who disagree with you are thinking for themselves and are seeking out evidence from a variety of sources?

>59 Earthling1:

Those disagreeing with you have tried very hard and have looked in all the right places for fact-checked credible evidence. Look in the mirror again, and realise that you have not tried very hard nor looked in the right place to actually verify the false allegations which you are posting.

61lriley
des. 13, 2020, 11:39pm

#60--the go to place for talk of voter fraud is Donald Trump's twitter account which feeds the far right narratives on voter fraud including the trolls who spread these narratives here. When Donald Trump says there was voter fraud---the only conclusion for some of these yahoos to make is that there was voter fraud--that Donald Trump said so is evidence in itself and the only evidence they need is that Donald Trump said so. Earthling being one of these aforementioned backs that all up with his 'think for yourself' inanities that he thinks is some kind of a winning argument but really are not rational....are more in the realm of laughable.

62Earthling1
des. 14, 2020, 12:46am

" Look in the mirror again"

No, you

63John5918
Editat: des. 14, 2020, 7:17am

>62 Earthling1:

Sounds a bit like a rather poor quality comedy routine, doesn't it? You. No, you. No, you. Echo echo echo. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

Sad.

64Earthling1
des. 14, 2020, 11:09am

Said the foreigner.

“We’re not finished,” Giuliani said. “Believe me.”

65John5918
des. 14, 2020, 12:14pm

>64 Earthling1:

Ah, is that xenophobia rearing its ugly head?

66Earthling1
des. 14, 2020, 2:50pm

Of course not. I never expected you or any other foreigner to know about American politics. That would be unfair.

67Limelite
des. 14, 2020, 10:42pm

Trump’s legal team and its allies have lost 59 lawsuits since Election Day, according to Marc Elias, a prominent Democratic lawyer.

America's Biggest LOSER. Sad. Everything he touches fails.

68John5918
Editat: des. 14, 2020, 10:42pm

>61 lriley:

It's ironic really that posters who rail against the media and against relying on authority figures in fact base their own stance on the claims of Trump (an authority figure) and the media (his Twitter account and all the other media which echo and reinforce it). And they apparently can't see the irony nor the contradiction.

69John5918
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 12:25am

>66 Earthling1: I never expected you or any other foreigner to know about American politics

Well, since so many of us ignorant foreigners don't know anything about US politics but are still interested to learn, perhaps you would be kind enough to instruct me? Let me set out in a few sentences what I understand, and perhaps you could explain where I am mistaken, also in a few sentences? In your own words, perhaps, not a long copy and paste? And if it's not too presumptive of me, can I suggest that "think for yourself", "echo echo" and "bullshit" would not really help me to understand better.

A presidential election was held, and a candidate appeared to have won by a large majority of both the popular vote and the electoral college votes. The losing candidate exercised his right to challenge the result, both in the courts and by demanding recounts and audits. Despite numerous claims of fraud originating with the losing candidate and his supporters, no credible evidence of any large scale fraud has been presented to the courts, the electoral authorities nor the public. None of these claims, including even appeals to the Supreme Court, led to any significant change in the results. Yesterday the electoral college, as expected, respected the will of the electorate and voted 306 to 232 for Biden. That result will be certified by Congress on 6th January and Biden will become the President of the USA on 20th.

Not really relevant, but just in passing, the 306-232 electoral college vote in 2016 was described by Trump as a "landslide", even though he lost the popular vote by about 3 million, whereas in 2020 the winning candidate won the popular vote by more than 7 million.

Which bit have I got wrong?

70lriley
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 1:33am

#68---one of the reasons I think a lot of people think Earthling is he makes the same kinds of logic leaps that don't actually get him to the other side but end with his falling in between where he leapt from and where he intended to go. I would note that some of his conservative sidekicks seem to have disappeared--R.S. Cubby and Carnophile and it may be they see the reality that some others fail to grasp.

#69--E's screwy narrative (another Barney like belief) that people from other countries are unable to understand the United States or its politics is undermined whenever he comments on other countries and their politics such as in the discussion on 'third world elections' recently. Following his logic what makes him think that he has any capability (or Sidney Powell for that matter) to understand other countries or their politics? When it comes to American politics it's not that hard IMO--follow where the most money is going and see the policies that money buys. That's a lot of the story of what our two political party politics is about.

71Earthling1
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 10:11am

>69 John5918: There's no point in repeating myself every day. Contrary to your assertion, I've explained these things to you and to others repeatedly. But they don't stick. That's your problem, not mine.

Among the distinctions you refuse to make:

1) There are and have been many lawsuits by many people. Only a small fraction have been filed by the Trump legal team. Don't lump them all together.

2) Few of the cases have been tried. They haven't gone through the long, day after day process of law. They were merely dismissed by judges who, for their own reasons, didn't want to try them. Dismissing is quite different from "trying" or analyzing. It's like a box you never open. You say, "Nope, nothing of value in there". A thoughtful person wants to see what's in the box.

3) I'm puzzled by your faith in courts, lawyers, and judges. You can be cured of that by reading Sidney Powell's book Licensed to Lie, a nuts and bolts account of what it's like to try cases day after day among viciously dishonest, corrupt people, something she did for twenty years. Did you know that innocent people go to prison in America? They do. Saying "The court said it's true, therefore it's true" is no way to live your life. O.J. Simpson really did murder his wife, but the jury found him not guilty. They were wrong. They had their own agenda. To repeat what I said in 2, in nearly every example, courts have NOT said "this is true" or "this is false" about the election. Judges have merely refused to take the case. They refuse to open the box. There are many reasons for that, few of them good or honest. It reflects very very poorly on our legal system. But few people in America trust our legal system to begin with. This is a very bad state of affairs. Consider these lawsuits a litmus test for judicial integrity. Nearly all the judges have failed the test. That is extremely depressing news.

4) Your choice of sources has led you to repeat lies and propaganda, but you never venture outside your comfort zone to read other sources. If you surround yourself only with people who agree with you, you are going to lead a very narrow, misleading life. If you are going to read shallow, dishonest sources, you ought to at least read them skeptically rather than accepting every word as truth, fact, and gospel. That's what it means to be a good reader. It's got nothing to do with having a lot of books.

5) You neglect what "the other side" did four years ago and how it conducted itself for four years—all on the false assertion that Trump was an "illegitimate" president. Remember all that crap about "Russian involvement"? Nancy Pelosi has even called Amy Barrett an "illegitimate" judge. That's dumb and wrong. Barrett went through the nomination process. She certainly is "legitimate". Trump was never an illegitimate president. These people play games with words. Very dishonest.

6) The evidence of fraud is overwhelming. But you repeat the lie there is no fraud. I've given you links and I have described some of the fraud. But it doesn't stick with you. It's like you wake up with amnesia every day. I'm getting old, too. I know how it is.

72Earthling1
des. 15, 2020, 10:13am

Read the article I linked to in "You Are Being Played".

73Earthling1
des. 15, 2020, 10:20am

The ubiquity of corruption has led some people to conclude that America is no longer worth defending. Black Lives Matter concluded that. Their solution is violence. I have read comments about secession, breaking up the country, declaring martial law, and so on. Democrats have driven gun sales through the roof. I doubt these things will occur. But I don't know how many people feel this way. What percentage of people are so unhappy that they want to tear the whole thing down? I really don't know, and it's probably impossible to find out. I do know that you can't have a system that operates a double standard: one rule for us, one rule for them. A corrupt legal system will collapse. The nation is unbalanced. It has been for a very long time.

74John5918
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 10:31am

>71 Earthling1:

Thanks.

1. Yes, like I said, there have been many lawsuits.

2. The cases have gone to a court of law. The result has been no significant change to the election results.

3. I've seen plenty of miscarriages of justice in my time. I've worked as a prison chaplain, incidentally. But to claim that upwards of 59 different courts with different justices, both Democrat and Republican, have all made the same mistake, to say nothing of the Supreme Court which has a 6-3 conservative majority with three of the judges actually appointed by Trump, does tend to strain one's credbility.

4. I've ventured far outside my comfort zone and read most of the articles which you and other right wing posters have linked to. They do look very much like "lies and propaganda" (your words) to me. How are you so convinced that your news sources are correct and others are wrong? And why do you assume that someone who has read your right wing sources as well as other mainstream and independent sources is not reading all of them "skeptically rather than accepting every word as truth, fact, and gospel", and then making up their own mind? Just because my analysis of the opposing sources is different to yours, why is it mine which is shallow and yours which is correct?

5. I have mentioned what happened four years ago in this and other posts. Trump claimed that 306-232 electoral college votes was a landslide. Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million. Clinton accepted her defeat, and Obama ensured a smooth handover to the new president. Trump thanked Obama for doing so.

6. You say, "The evidence of fraud is overwhelming", but none of it has actually been found, despite this being probably the most closely scrutinised election in US history. Every allegation of fraud which has been made (including the ones which you have described and linked to) has been investigated and found either not to be true or else so small as to have no effect on the outcome of the election. It "doesn't stick" not only with me but with the judges, the law officers, the election officials, the state officials (Democrat and Republican) and all the others who are legally and constitutionally charged with investigating it, because they find these allegations to be without basis. Where and what is this fraud which is overhwelming enough to overturn a popular majority of around 8 million and an electoral college majority of 74?

75John5918
des. 15, 2020, 10:36am

>73 Earthling1: Black Lives Matter... Their solution is violence.

No, it isn't. BLM is a largely peaceful movement. There might be a small number of violent incidents perpetrated by a handful of the huge number of participants, but that does not mean that BLM's solution is violence. And most of the violence is started by people who are not part of the BLM movement, whether the police or anti-BLM agitators who publicly espouse violence and come perpared to incite it.

76John5918
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 10:41am

>72 Earthling1:

I read it, as I read most of the links you give, at least the text ones, not usually the videos. I found it unconvincing. However it seems you hijacked that thread by starting another diversion about flagging.

77Earthling1
des. 15, 2020, 1:28pm

You're not reading what I wrote. I didn't just say "many lawsuits". There are lawsuits by many...different...people. Not just the Trump legal team, which had, what, five? Most of them have no connection to Trump. They're not paid by him or in contact with him. People distort this.

Then you concluded, "Well, the court said..." and I have addressed why those comments are similarly superficial. If you are only looking at the bottom line, then you are correct, the false results of the election haven't been changed. They have been barely examined—by the people whose job it is to examine them. Beginning with Giuliani's press conference after the election, there has been plenty of evidence. But what did people talk about? His hair dye running. So what? It looks silly. Yes? And? It was a warm day and he was wearing a suit. And? That's what people took away? It's so depressing how dumb people are.

78Earthling1
des. 15, 2020, 1:29pm

"have all made the same mistake"

I never said mistake. I said they had their own reasons. This part isn't surprising at all.

79Earthling1
des. 15, 2020, 1:30pm

"BLM is a largely peaceful movement."

No, it isn't. I can show video of stores being smashed and people being killed. There is no such thing as a "largely peaceful movement." There can be no such thing. You should let that go because it is one of your weakest beliefs.

80Earthling1
des. 15, 2020, 1:31pm

I didn't hijack the thread. Stop playing the opposite game. Turning the tables. That's not clever, you know.

81John5918
des. 15, 2020, 1:52pm

>80 Earthling1:

You're absolutely right, it's not clever at all. So I wonder why you do it so often?

82John5918
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 11:24pm

>78 Earthling1:

So diverse courts all over the county, made up of Democrats and Republicans, including the conservative-dominated Supreme Court which includes three Trump appointees, all have "their own reasons" for violating their oaths of office and delivering false judgements, and this is "not surprising" to you? What evidence do you have that they have made false judgements for "their own reasons" rather than simply looking objectively at each case and deciding that it had no merit?

Edited to add (since you haven't responded to this yet I think adding an afterthought is fair enough): Of course there is a great deal of corruption, crime, malpractice, profiteering, self interest and indeed evil in the world. However if your worldview is such that there are no honest people at all, that there are no judges who are willing to set aside their own prejudices and follow the law, that there are no election officials who believe in democracy more than they believe in their own partisan political view, that there are no systems of checks and balances which work most of the time, that there are no politicians who are willing to work bipartisanly for the good of the people rather than the good of their party, that there are no journalists who try to report the facts as objectively as possible... well, that's a sad and pessimistic worldview which I don't share.

83KAzevedo
des. 15, 2020, 2:45pm

>73 Earthling1: You write; "Democrats have driven gun sales through the roof."

Here is another example of your specious thinking.

No, in fact, people who buy guns have driven gun sales through the roof, many as a result of right wing talking points advocating violence.

84lriley
des. 15, 2020, 3:25pm

FWIW I don't have an issue with people owning hunting rifles and such as long as they're registered and have background checks. Hunting is not my thing but for some it's a food supply thing and others it's food supply/sport. Trophy shit has always struck me as bizarre though. You should at least make an attempt to respect what you kill.

Citizens do not however need military grade weapons---whether they're assault weapons, machine guns, flamethrowers, bazookas, rocket launchers, hand grenades, land mines. Shit like that should be illegal and absolutely prohibited. You just don't need them but it's not just the citizens, it's the arms manufacturers and organizations like the NRA.

85Earthling1
des. 15, 2020, 4:32pm

"So I wonder why you do it so often?
You just did it again! You don't know that?

86Limelite
des. 15, 2020, 4:57pm

Read It & Weep, Trumpty Dumbpties

Another lawsuit bites the dust for "lack of standing." Plaintiff has no right to claim she was defrauded by the election results if she never even bothered to register to vote in the first place. Can you imagine? I wonder how much moolah she was offered to go through with her bogus lawsuit? Whoever might have paid for her to play is as dumb a fraudster as James O'Keefe who can't get his bribed witness to hold to the agreed upon lie.
“Plaintiff by her own admission was not registered to vote for the 2020 general election,” wrote (Pinal County Superior Court Judge Kevin D.) White in his decision, which was posted on Twitter by Arizona Republic reporter Maria Polletta. “She therefore does not qualify to contest the election… because she was not an ‘elector’ of the state and country in which she resides.”
Take a look at the full judgment. I love the part where the judge calls the plaintiff's effort "defective"!

87Limelite
des. 15, 2020, 4:58pm

Continued #2

88Limelite
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 5:06pm

Continued #3

Sorry, can't reproduce image. Here's link:

https://twitter.com/mpolletta/status/1338870892462424064/photo/3

END of RULING
__________________________________
What is the total wins? Biden must have won AZ about 10 times by now.

89Earthling1
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 7:45pm

"We conclude that the Dominion Voting System is intentionally and purposefully designed with inherent errors to create systemic fraud and influence election results," the audit report prepared by Allied Security Operations Group read.

"The system intentionally generates an enormously high number of ballot errors. The electronic ballots are then transferred for adjudication. The intentional errors lead to bulk adjudication of ballots with no oversight, no transparency, and no audit trail."

"The findings in Antrim County, where the error rate was a mind-blowing 68%, the ballot rejection rate was 82%, and software security records and adjudication files were missing, in violation of state and federal laws, are nothing short of mind-blowing," Trump attorney and former federal prosecutor and New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani said in a release.

"The evidence of fraud is indisputable."

https://www.newsmax.com/us/antrim-county-michigan-forensic/2020/12/14/id/1001505...

90Limelite
des. 15, 2020, 8:22pm

I'm sure Rudy's mind was blown long ago. Newsmess Shopping Channel has the goods you want! The Usual Suspects are buying even more truth knock-offs, believing it's real. LOSERS continue to fund the Orange Shitegibbon's retirement and legal aid fund. Always the same line of crap always the same kinds of sap.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

91John5918
des. 15, 2020, 10:32pm

>79 Earthling1:

The fact that you saw a video of some violence taking place does not mean that violence is the philosophy or intent of the Black Lives Matter movement as you imply when you say, "Their solution is violence". All it means is, er, that some violence took place during an event which was intended to be part of a peaceful process.

Might be worth glancing at How to Stop a Power Grab (New Yorker), which reflects on some of the complexities of nonviolent protest.

92bohemima
des. 16, 2020, 12:34pm

And here is the latest in the “fraud” or “improper ballot” controversy:

https://nypost.com/2020/12/16/ex-cop-allegedly-points-gun-at-man-he-thought-was-...

Note: the story is in many news outlets. I used this one because it does t have a pay wall.

And on e again we see the lunacy of the right wing, as they are manipulated by master conmen into believing a complete, demonstrable lie.

93kiparsky
des. 16, 2020, 1:40pm

>92 bohemima: But... he's not antifa... how can he be doing the violents? I am confuse...

94bohemima
des. 16, 2020, 2:44pm

>93 kiparsky:
Aren’t we all.

95Earthling1
des. 16, 2020, 3:02pm

>91 John5918: This thread is not about Black Lives Matter.

96Earthling1
des. 16, 2020, 3:03pm

You certainly are confused. And a lot of other things. A lot. I mean a lot. A long long list...

97Earthling1
des. 16, 2020, 3:23pm

If people are really interested in being really "Good" do-gooders, and I know you are, you might start with the people on this forum. That'll be the day, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mDGcxbAusg

98Limelite
Editat: des. 16, 2020, 6:08pm

More "Election Fraud" Fraud Repercussions

Detroit Is Trying to Get Sidney Powell Fined, Banned from Court, and Referred to the Bar for Filing the ‘Kraken’
The City of Detroit wants Sidney Powell and her self-styled “Kraken” team to face sanctions for “frivolously undermining ‘People’s faith in the democratic process and their trust in our government.'”

The Motor City’s motion asks a federal judge to fine the lawyers, ban them from practicing in the Eastern District in Michigan and refer them to the Wolverine State’s bar for grievance proceedings.

“It’s time for this nonsense to end,” Detroit’s lawyer David Fink told Law&Crime in a phone interview.

“The lawyers filing these frivolous cases that undermine democracy must pay a price,” Fink added.
(SNIP)
. . .every court that has heard her conspiracy theories about a supposed plot involving Dominion voting machines, dead Venezuelan strongman Hugo Chavez, bipartisan government officials and election workers in counties across the United States found that narrative untethered to reality.

Powell has deployed a parade of anonymous and supposedly confidential witness, including a purported military intelligence expert code-named “Spyder” who later admitted to the Washington Post that he was actually an auto mechanic named Joshua Merritt with no such work experience.

“This abuse of the legal process at the expense of states should not go unpunished,” Fink said.
I'm old enough to remember when Republicans said they were fiscally responsible, against government waste, and wanted lower taxes. Now, they don't even pretend any more. This kind of nonsense is money wasted that could be used to deliver justice to violent criminals by utilizing the money that taxpayers gladly pay to government in order to keep them safe.

I submit the crazy election conspiracy lawyers are just in it for the grift, trying their best to be candidates for Shakespearean fates in some kabuki play of careless and harmful fiction. They'll be paid from the 25% of the $200,000,000 pot Trump is actually letting fund "stolen election" cases that he's crocked up. Is it any wonder he brags about loving the under-educated? Look at who's donating; look at who's bringing the lawsuits. Only the best under-educated!

99bohemima
des. 16, 2020, 5:43pm

>95 Earthling1: That may be so. But you are the one who first inserted BLM into the discussion; see >73 Earthling1:.

100Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 1:29am

...the electoral system, as devised, makes it impossible to effectively challenge voting fraud. No court can process sufficiently and fairly all the evidence, claims and counterclaims, testimony, etc. in the time between election day and the day electors are chosen. It takes about half the available time just to research and pull together cases and file them. Cases this complicated take months, even years to be resolved in courts.

No court was about to overturn a national election based on what are essentially only allegations in a lawsuit without testing their veracity in a full-blown trial with the accused allowed to present their case, and both sides engaging in cross examination, discovery and other requisite legal niceties to determine whether the allegations hold water. That just wasn’t ever going to happen. Certainly not by Dec. 14 when Electoral College electors were sent to Washington.

Trump’s team has known this all along. If so, things probably are advancing pretty much according to Trump’s plan.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/12/trumps_end_game.html

101aspirit
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 12:08pm

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-thinker/

A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for the purpose of profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact checked on a per article basis. (...)

Overall, we rate the American Thinker, Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of conspiracy theories/pseudoscience, use of poor sources, and several failed fact checks.

Reasoning: Extreme Right bias; sharing of conspiracy and propaganda; and lack of ownership transparency

American Thinker is a blog founded by a conspiracy writer and health care consultant known for writing for other heavily biased, questionable sources. The current ownership is hidden.

102aspirit
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 12:19pm

Trump’s team might have known all along that they can make money off a post-election campaign attack on democracy. If so, things probably are advancing pretty much according to Trump’s plan.

The good news for President-elect Biden and the rest of us is that Trump's raving about fraud appears to be scaring Republican voters from the US Senate runoffs in Georgia. We might see the Stop the Steal propaganda for his deplorable fundraising help flip the Senate next month. And that will remove two other major political profiteers from Congress.

103Earthling1
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 1:37pm

I don't see the world through the lens of football. I have written about this many times. The rest of you think it is about teams. I don't. I can make up my own mind. You are the ones who are diminished by refusing to read reliable information and analyze it for yourself. It's your loss, not mine. I'm happy every day regardless. I'm not being held hostage by eggheads or wanna-be eggheads. I'm not stuck in a loop of anger, jealousy, resentment, and projection. I love the world and I love life.

Here's an example of how easy it easy for me:

"they can make money off a post-election campaign attack on democracy"

1) I don't know who the boogeyman "they" are in your fantasy, but Trump doesn't need money. He's a billionaire. You forgot? Unlike every other president we have had, he paid his own way. He doesn't need advertising either. Because if he runs in 2024, and IF the election is fair, he will win easily without campaigning. He won't have to, because he's going to be inaugurated in January.

2) "Democracy" is an abstraction. You can't attack a democracy. You can attack a person, but you can't attack an abstraction. Those words are meaningless. You are repeating them because you heard some other arrogant, smug person say them or write them and they made you feel good, so you repeated them. That's what a papagallo does. Repeats.

You might want to look up the definition of libel.

104John5918
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 1:44pm

>103 Earthling1: You might want to look up the definition of...

Papagallo. I'd never heard of that one before. I don't think we have them on this side of the Pond. Thanks for teaching me a new word.

105kiparsky
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 1:51pm

>102 aspirit: As I see it, Trump is a chaos monkey. He doesn't have a plan, he just creates chaos in the belief that in general, this will create opportunities for him to turn a profit, or at least to gain some advantage. Since he doesn't have the brains to operate in a systematic way, his plan is to disrupt systems so that others will have to play in his game.

It turns out that this doesn't work, of course, but it turns out that (a) Trump is too stupid to realize that he's actually losing money in this game and (b) he started out with a big enough pile of inherited money that losing most of it over the course of his lifetime didn't change his access to material comforts, cocaine, and hookers in the slightest, and (c) so far, he's been careful to not actually play in big enough games to risk a total collapse which would actually cause him discomfort, and scarcity of cocaine and hookers.

Face it - the man is a small-time operator with big-time money. He was never going to make money, nor was he ever going to lose enough to affect him.

Unfortunately, now it looks like he's fucked up badly enough that he may be at risk of losing enough to affect him. When his reported outstanding debts come due, it sounds like he will probably lose his access to material comforts, and most likely even to the boobs of Melania, and will sit out the rest of his days in various legal proceedings which he will neither comprehend nor be able to affect in any way. Perhaps he'll wind up in some country-club prison. Perhaps his kids will care enough about him to buy the company that operates that prison so they can sneak in little care packages of blow from time to time, so the feelings won't get too bad. Who knows. All I know is, he's never going to matter again.

And that, oddly enough, probably bothers some people a whole lot.

106aspirit
des. 17, 2020, 2:44pm

>105 kiparsky: Trump himself is a creature if chaos, and his debts will certainly catch up to him if he doesn't use his current fundraising to pay them off. But what's surprised me is how much his team is making this past month. They have figured out how to continue fleecing Trumpsters.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/11/24/no-it-wasnt-a-coup-attempt-it-was-anoth...

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-02/trump-s-election-fraud-bus...

Related: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-pocketing-georgia-senate-runoff-donations-...

107prosfilaes
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 2:48pm

>103 Earthling1: The rest of you think it is about teams. I don't.

>9 Earthling1: This push for mail-in voting has been going on with the Democrats for at least a decade. ... Democrat governor, who is a leftist, ... The labor unions poured in a fortune, the teacher unions poured in fortune, the usual groups poured in a fortune, and they (I don't know who the boogeyman "they" are in your fantasy) won all three seats. ... three hardcore leftists

>103 Earthling1: You are the ones who are diminished by refusing to read reliable information and analyze it for yourself.

Which brings up questions about how we know that when the media is reliable, but you're just going to whine again about hijacking the thread by wanting to dive into some point you make?

1) I don't know who the boogeyman "they" are in your fantasy, but Trump doesn't need money. He's a billionaire.

Jeff Bezos is a billionaire; it doesn't seem that as a general rule, that stops people from trying to accumulate more wealth. And given that he's not released his tax returns or any other information, who knows exactly how much he's worth and how much he owes?

2) "Democracy" is an abstraction. You can't attack a democracy. You can attack a person, but you can't attack an abstraction.

And you want a book club? "The book clearly says Aslan's a lion, and they're killing him on a stone slab. Stop hijacking the thread by going on about the Crucifixion." So you're repudiating the War on Terror, any claims that 9/11 or Pearl Harbor were attacks on America, etc., etc.? Or is this sudden attack of allegory-blindness a convenient way to avoid discussing the topic at hand?

I was about to write it out long-hand, but it doesn't matter. This is the type of fundamental dishonesty that makes it impossible to talk to some people.

108aspirit
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 3:07pm

>104 John5918: Merriam-Webster defines papagallo as a fish food in southern California, down to Peru.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/papagallo

Britannica says it's also known as a roosterfish.

https://www.britannica.com/animal/roosterfish

I've learned something new about the Gulf of California today. No idea what it has to do with US elections, though.

ETA: Oh, I figured it out. Reading the original sentence as Spanglish, the word is simply parrot.

Ha. Funny.

109aspirit
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 3:06pm

They...

What I wrote: Trump’s team might have known all along that they can make money off a post-election campaign attack on democracy.

Explanation: The pronoun in the sentence stands in for "Trump's team". See >106 aspirit: for more.

110Limelite
des. 17, 2020, 4:31pm

Gee, if I were a Republican today, I'd be concerned about only one thing. Who perpetrated the FRAUD on us by "selling" us the most incompetent, ignorant, and criminal conman to be our Ordained One? Because he has destroyed the Party and stolen our values and turned us into an army of outcast racists with NO POSITIVE AMERICAN PLATFORM WHATSOEVER to offer voters in any future elections.

"We're reduced to offering America the following policy positions:"
Anti-First Amendment
Anti-democracy
Anti-free and fair elections
Anti-justice
Anti-maskers
Anti-vaxers
Anti-non-whites
Anti-women
Anti-education
Anti-science
Anti-facts
Anti-reality
Pro-gun
Pro-violence
Pro-conspiracy (NO! microchips aren't injected with Covid vaccines, you effing idiots!)
Pro-disinformation
Pro-tyrant
Pro-Jeebus
Pro-grift
Pro-delusion
Pro-hate
Pro-conman

In short, ANTI-AMERICAN, PRO-PUTIN PURE PURSUIT OF POWER

That's the list of what Republicans STAND for because they certainly haven't fought against being identified with those qualities. Silent government enablers to a man/woman.

111lriley
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 4:46pm

#105--part of the point of Trump keeping everyone divided is to keep more control over his own base. So they buy into all his whining and resentments--make them their own. The good thing is it's not quite half the population and not enough to get him reelected--the bad thing is it's still a very large chunk of the population.

112Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 5:16pm

"his team"

113Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 5:19pm

Italian, brainiacs.

114bohemima
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 9:03pm

>113 Earthling1:

Your posts, including this one, give everyone a crystal clear just how true your statements are in
>103 Earthling1: (“I’m happy every day regardless.” “I’m not in a loop of anger, jealousy, resentment, and projection.”
“I love the world and I love life.”
“That’s what a papagallo does. Repeats.”)

If anyone’s a papagallo, it’s you, with endless repetitions of inane remarks that don’t further discussion, but rather try to shut it down.

Edited for clarity

115KAzevedo
des. 17, 2020, 7:46pm

>114 bohemima: Its "presence here" seems so pointless and self -demeaning. I catch myself feeling sorry for it.

116bohemima
des. 17, 2020, 9:04pm

>115 KAzevedo:
I do too. But I’m afraid that feeling would only be resented.

117mguntle
des. 17, 2020, 10:01pm

>3 JGL53: Wow...I can't believe you actually believe there is a big white supremacist movement out there....guess you listen to Lester Dolt and Rachael Madcow.

118mguntle
des. 17, 2020, 10:09pm

Huh....didn't know there were THAT many liberals who could read!....I mean....this being a "book" forum and all. Try reading the constitution...it's a hoot!

119mikevail
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 10:21pm

>118 mguntle:
"Huh....didn't know there were THAT many liberals who could read!"

Says the sockpuppet with no books listed and who joined the site 5 minutes ago.

120lriley
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 10:38pm

The constitution is not properly a book--it's also outdated in a lot of respects....really a horse and buggy document. But really how many interpretations of the fucking bible are there? A lot--and people have been murdering each other in the millions over these interpretations over the centuries. Killing in the name of peacenik Jesus has never been a problem for those trying to wrangle a ticket into paradise. His life and path are kind of an afterthought. There's quite a bit of interpretation to the United States constitution too and of course there are going to be asswipes who will insist they understand it better than others and put more importance on the parts of if that they want to make most important--for instance the second amendment nuts.

121Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 11:08pm

"endless repetitions of inane remarks"

No, those are your posts. You must be holding them up to a mirror. Maybe a trip to the optometrist is in order. I never said I was trying to further discussion. I'm interested in facts and truth. Not debate for its own sake. If you want to go in a loop, go ahead. Leave me out of it.

I'm not sure why you criticize me for saying I'm happy. Of all things to find offensive. That's just weird. You know the word reactionary usually gets used about the right, but really it belongs to the left. I see a lot of responses that are emotional that don't address any subject in depth. They merely repeat back something that appears on CNN or Mother Jones. Second time this week someone accused me of being a liar. A liar? Really? I'm honest to a fault. Where do you get off treating people this way? And then being 100 percent certain that you are a good person. Boggles the mind. I don't see any proof that the people on this web site are any more thoughtful than non-readers. On the contrary, minds here are shut tight. Either you are reading the wrong books or failing to read the ones you have correctly.

122Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 11:12pm

"If anyone’s a papagallo, it’s you, "

See, you're doing it again. Turning tables. You wouldn't even know that word if it weren't for me. Didn't people give up "I know you are but what am I?" at the age of eleven? Effing amazing. Are any of you aware that you are doing this? Or is the habit so ingrained and automatic that you are not? You should think about it. It's not helping you or anyone else. It's only going to keep you in a loop.

123aspirit
des. 17, 2020, 11:13pm

The Constitution of the United States I keep in book form includes a couple of related documents. I read the book when I was 18 or so years old.

So what? What does it have to do with this topic?

124John5918
des. 17, 2020, 11:14pm

>121 Earthling1: Either you are reading the wrong books or failing to read the ones you have correctly.

But I'm just wondering how you can be so absolutely sure that you are not the one reading the wrong books or failing to read the ones you have correctly? A multitude of people reading a multitude of sources, and you are the only one who manages to interpret them correctly? Can you not admit the possibility that there are other legitimate interpretations?

125Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 11:14pm

>115 KAzevedo: Really? So now I'm an "it"? Reducing humans to objects? My God. Third Reich here we come.

126Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 11:15pm

>124 John5918: What do you think about calling a person an "it"?

127John5918
Editat: des. 17, 2020, 11:19pm

>126 Earthling1:

Not my cup of tea, but I'm still learning the new use of pronouns in the light of gender fluidity, so I'm no authority on this. I have no idea whether you are male of female or any other type of gender identity, so I try as much as possible to avoid using 3rd person pronouns about you, or to use "they", which seems to be broadly acceptable these days. Perhaps you could enlighten us which pronoun you prefer? I identify as male, incidentally, so "he" is OK to use about me.

128Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 11:19pm

John, why do you think I used the Italian word for parrot? As soon as I did, someone said, No, you're a parrot. I mean, really?

I said, Are you reading the wrong books, and then you said, "Are...you...reading the wrong books"

Almost the same thing. Get it? All you did was turn it back on me. You didn't address the subject all. Is this how you define thinking? Not a rhetorical question. I would like to know.

129John5918
des. 17, 2020, 11:19pm

>128 Earthling1:

No idea. I looked it up in Merriam-Webster and it was a fish, not a parrot.

130Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 11:22pm

"I'm no authority on this"

Really? You can't find the courage to say people are humans rather than inanimate objects? You can't distinguish between them? That's odd. I didn't know there were authorities on pronoun usage, except perhaps for the usual English teachers, writers, editors (I am in this group, by the way). Are you saying you have to consult some "expert" or authority figure when it comes to distinguishing between he, she, it? As long as you've lived, you are incapable of doing that on your own?

I find that hard to believe.

131Earthling1
des. 17, 2020, 11:23pm

>129 John5918: I'm not talking about he, she, or they. Would you ever call a person "it"?

132KAzevedo
Editat: des. 18, 2020, 12:19am

>131 Earthling1: I'm sure if I had called you "they", you would be equally incensed. For future reference, and since I have no knowledge of your gender, which pronoun would you prefer when one is referring
you?

Question: Do you have children? When your fetus was in utero and before knowing the gender, did you ever use "it" to refer to the fetus? Or did you only ever use the combo, "he/she"? As in, "Darling, let's sing to he/she, or let's buy he/she a mobile to but above his/her crib."

133John5918
Editat: des. 18, 2020, 12:14am

>131 Earthling1:

No, I probably wouldn't. But until very recently I wouldn't have used "they" as a singular pronoun. Language is changing and, as I said, I'm no authority on it. Anyway, you're hijacking this thread, in your own oft-used words. Doesn't worry me, as off-topic diversions are often interesting (albeit not so much in this case), but it does usually seem to be a bit of a bugbear with you - except when you're the one doing the hijacking, perhaps?

134Limelite
des. 18, 2020, 1:45am

He/She/It employs artificial intelligence, i.e. alt-intelligence.

135Earthling1
des. 18, 2020, 2:48am

"except when you're the one"
turning tables again

136prosfilaes
des. 18, 2020, 4:08am

>128 Earthling1: I said, Are you reading the wrong books, and then you said, "Are...you...reading the wrong books"

Again, why do you think you would do better in a book club, if you confuse "But I'm just wondering how you can be so absolutely sure that you are not the one reading the wrong books or failing to read the ones you have correctly?" with "Are...you...reading the wrong books"? Why would I think you read philosophy if you confuse a question about which books you're reading with a question about epistemology?

>135 Earthling1: Why shouldn't we? Do you think you have some exception to the rules that you expect others to play by?

You want us to get back on topic. >1 Earthling1: claims 1,302 cases of voting fraud, which would not change a single state's vote even if they were all in this election for Biden in one state. It claims "Reforms intended to ensure election integrity do not disenfranchise voters" which is transparent bullshit; anyone claiming that "reforms intended to do A do not do B" is feeding you bullshit, because the world of "reforms intended to do A" is far too broad to easily generalize about. (Not to mention that claiming reforms intended to do A do not do B is irrelevant if we're talking suggested changes that are asserted to have B as an intention.)

And look what else they forgot, the way one party (Republicans) formed a group (Ballot Security Task Force) that used armed men to discourage people from voting against them, and ended up agreeing to a 35-year consent degree agreeing to stop trying to discourage qualified voters from voting by sending armed men to non-white neighborhoods to intimidate potential voters. Huh. One might think that was worth a mention.

Americans deserve to have an electoral process that they can trust and that protects their most sacred right,

And nothing says that like trying to nullify the vote in four states unified only by the fact they voted for Biden. Nothing tells Black Americans that they have an electoral process they can trust like specifically attacking votes in Detroit and Atlanta

I really don't know why I waste my time, because there are lines of whining and whining above, but you won't respond to this at all, except possibly in short phrases that don't bother arguing a case. Parrots speak in more complex and philosophical sentences then most of your posts here.

138kiparsky
Editat: des. 18, 2020, 9:24am

>137 bohemima: Now that's just mean.

Nobody should be asked to read Earthling's posts, not even the author.

(which raises the obvious question - what makes you assume that they read them the first time? nothing I've seen of their writing suggests that... which is why I blocked them)

139bohemima
des. 18, 2020, 9:47am

LOL

Too right.

140MsMixte
des. 18, 2020, 10:08am

>138 kiparsky: I haven't read them in several weeks. I can see from following the thread that I am not missing anything of value.

141Earthling1
des. 18, 2020, 1:40pm

https://www.newsmax.com/us/peter-navarro-white-house-trade-adviser-irregularitie...

"The six irregularities alleged were:

1) Outright voter fraud.
2) Ballot mishandling.
3) Contestable process fouls.
4) Equal protection clause violations.
5) Voting machine irregularities.
6) Significant statistical anomalies.

"While Democrat Party government officials cheated and gamed the electoral process across all six battleground states, many Republican government officials – from governors and state legislators to judges – did little or nothing to stand in their way," Navarro's report continued."

142prosfilaes
des. 18, 2020, 2:39pm

143Limelite
des. 18, 2020, 8:26pm

Massive Election Fraud may Have Happened

KY 2020 General Election: This does not compute. . .
1 out of 5 voters appear to have filled out their ballots with votes for both the female Democratic Amy McGrath and the Republican pussy-grabber Donald Trump.
Only it was in Mitch McConnell's Senate race and the cheating was to give the election to him. Different voting machines in KY -- ES&S, not Dominion. But the math doesn't add up for real. More votes than population of age eligible voters in several counties. Disparities between presidential vote and down ticket race untypical. Historically Democratic counties through several cycles suddenly flipped in favor of McConnell whose approval rating was around 13% before election and barely over 31% statewide by election. He won by odd huge margins when so unpopular in blue and purple counties, not just red counties.

Lady Lindsey and Susan Collins victories also suspicious.

Not only that, polling probably correct but not the voting in SC, IA, ME, TX, and FL, states that ALL use the same voting machines as KY.

Looks like Trump's attack on voter fraud and attack on Dominion machines a feint and distraction to obfuscate where he and Republicans knew actual fraud and fix was going on in the ES&S states. In fact, Trump's lawsuits seem to (unintentionally) reveal exactly how it was done.

Don't look now, but the tables are turning and the needle that points to CHEATER is aligning with True North.

144Earthling1
des. 18, 2020, 8:54pm

>142 prosfilaes: Did you read it? Turning tables again, eh? You don't get tired of that? Papagallo, eh?

145prosfilaes
des. 18, 2020, 9:24pm

>144 Earthling1: No, Polly, you need to say "Polly want a cracker". We expect more of intelligent creatures than "Polly, Polly, Cracker, Cracker".

146aspirit
des. 18, 2020, 9:25pm

>143 Limelite: Some history about McConnell and ES&S...

"As He Blocks Election Security Bills, McConnell Takes Checks from Voting Machine Lobbyists"
https://readsludge.com/2019/06/10/as-he-blocks-election-security-bills-mcconnell...

... and a note that Kentucky's Secretary of State and Attorney General, who have said there was "no fraud" in the election", are both Republicans.

147lriley
des. 19, 2020, 6:06am

Reading this article about Trump fundraising off the Georgia Senate race and keeping it all for himself:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trumps-pac-fundraising-off-georgia-012829488.html

Well he does have something like a $460 million debt coming due and it's not like Loeffler and Perdue are poor and can't pay out of their own pockets or aren't just as crooked as he is and if the shoe were on the other foot wouldn't do the same. It does make me wonder if Trump has in mind to fundraise that $460 million away. It's not like he doesn't have an army of small donor suckers out there.

148Earthling1
des. 19, 2020, 11:46am

you need to say "Polly want a cracker

exactly, glad you agree

149lriley
des. 19, 2020, 12:44pm

#148--whatever you can do E---just so long as it's at least 3/4's of your net wealth. You can manage to live off the rest I'm sure.

Thanks--Donald T.

150kiparsky
Editat: des. 19, 2020, 3:14pm

>147 lriley: The question is, how much money do those suckers really represent? If you take the number of people who voted for him as a starting point, each of those would have to donate about $7 (70 million * $7 = $490million). $7 is not an unreasonable contribution for someone to make, so if you're willing to accept the number of voters as approximating the number of donors, then sure, he's probably fine. However, I would guess that you're getting something more like a tenth of that number donating, which means he'd have to hit $70 per, on average. That seems a lot harder stretch, considering that he's just one beggar with his hat out. I also notice that his high-roller buddies are really not coming through for him - $100K donations from billionaires does not bode well for him in the long tail.

My guess is he's going to be able to suck some dollars out of the race, and it's possible that this will hurt Loeffler and Purdue's chances a bit, but I don't see how he gets enough to mitigate his coming cash crisis.

What's interesting about all this is what it means for his offspring. All of the people talking about the junior Trumps as potential political figures in coming cycles seem to assume that some of the Trump glory will fall on those shoulders. But since so much of that mystique is derived from the fact that he has access to cash and is able to convince stupid people that that access implies some sort of business acumen on his part, the whole mess of them is going to have to work very hard to keep up those appearances, or everything Trump evaporates into air. You might think that Trump's people like him for his political message - that's possible, I suppose, but without the false story of his financial wizardry, he's just Pat Buchanan, and we all remember Pat Buchanan's stunning successes as an electoral candidate, right?

So this suggests to me that there are interesting times for the Trumplets coming. If they want to have any political prospects, or even if they want to enjoy the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed, they're going to have to devote all of their time to the business of projecting financial stability while trying desperately to prevent the remnants of Fred Trump's empire from collapsing in on them. This might prove to be difficult, since Ivanka is the only one who has anything like an independent line of business and it seems charitable at best to call it that - really, she's got a genteel money-loser that's supported by a generous allowance from Daddy. Meanwhile, her brothers-of-sorts are in joint control of a declining business, and will probably stay that way as Trump is not going to turn his attention back to, as he put is, "ordering windows" when he could spend his time shouting at clouds on Twitter. I'm pretty sure we all have a pretty good idea what happens when you leave two marginally competent and maximally pugnacious brothers in charge of a declining asset - the only question is, how long it takes for the knife fight to become a public affair.

So, honestly, I think that unless Trump is able to come up with a better plan than fleecing his voters, we're probably going to have a protracted, somewhat sordid, but ultimately highly entertaining drama playing out before our eyes over the next, let's say, five years or so. It won't be Shakespeare, but it might have some touches of Pinter.

And unless Barron is able to surprise us all in twenty years or so, it will be the end of the Trumps.

151MsMixte
des. 19, 2020, 2:38pm

This may be behind a paywall, but the gist of it is that Jared Kushner helped create a Trump campaign shell company that secretly paid the president

"EXCLUSIVE: Jared Kushner helped create a Trump campaign shell company that secretly paid the president's family members and spent $617 million in reelection cash, a source tells Insider

President Donald Trump's most powerful advisor, Jared Kushner, approved the creation of a campaign shell company that secretly paid the president's family members and spent almost half of the campaign's $1.26 billion war chest, a person familiar with the operation told Insider.

The operation acted almost like a campaign within a campaign. It paid some of Trump's top advisors and family members while shielding financial and operational details from public scrutiny.

When Kushner and others created the company in April 2018, they picked Trump's daughter-in-law Lara Trump, to become its president, Vice President Mike Pence's nephew John Pence as its vice president, and Trump campaign CFO Sean Dollman as its treasurer and secretary, the person who spoke on the condition of anonymity said.

Insider independently verified details of this person's account with other sources close to the Trump campaign."

https://www.businessinsider.com/jared-kushner-trump-campaign-shell-company-famil...

Lara Trump gets $15000/month for being a 'senior campaign advisor'. How much does she get in addition from this slush fund?

Don Jr's girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle, also gets $15000 for being a 'senior campaign advisor'. How much is SHE getting from this fund?

I love repeating this--all Secret Service protection disappears promptly at 12.01 on January 20th for the adult relatives--Don Jr, Tiffany, Ivanka, Eric. Did you know that the children of these people also have been getting SS details? No more free bodyguards, no more free transportation, no staying at Daddy's hotels and being able to soak the taxpayers by directing money back to Daddy.

Don Jr, Eric, Ivanka, Jared--they will all be fighting off civil lawsuits and probably criminal charges in New York State, so I agree, sordid drama everywhere!

152lriley
des. 19, 2020, 4:40pm

#150--hard to feel sorry for Loeffler and Perdue very much---they've running their own particular insider trading scams and have multiple mansions and whatnot and hundreds of millions in this, that and the next thing. They could easily be paying for all their shit out of their own pockets. I can see why Donald wouldn't want to share all those ill gotten gains with them----it's like get your own scam and your own legions of suckers.

153John5918
des. 21, 2020, 5:28am

Republicans strategize for next elections: 'Their plan is to make it harder for voters to participate' (Guardian)

After record turnout in the 2020 presidential election, Republicans in some states are already signaling they will pursue measures that make it harder to vote in the coming years.

The Republican efforts come after an election in which nearly 160 million people voted, the highest in a presidential election in over a century. About half of voters cast their ballots by mail, a big increase from 2016, while about another quarter cast their ballots in person ahead of election day.

The GOP backlash underscores how swiftly and severely the party is willing to cut off access to the ballot amid signs of a changing electorate. The baseless accusations of fraud that Donald Trump and other allies continue to levy about the election has offered election officials justification for passing the measures. “There will be some states where it is very clear that the existing power structure is worried about their voters. And part of their job security plan is to make it harder for their voters to participate”...

Two states that appear to be at the center of the push are Georgia and Texas, where Republicans are already advocating measures to scale back mail-in voting and other access to the ballot. Both states, traditionally seen as Republican strongholds, are increasingly seen as politically competitive because of demographic shifts, with the electorate becoming much more diverse...

154Molly3028
Editat: des. 21, 2020, 6:59pm

VOTER FRAUD FOUND IN PA

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/prosecutors-accuse-pennsylvania-republican...
Prosecutors Accuse Pennsylvania REPUBLICAN of Voting in Dead Mother’s Name for Trump

LOL

155Limelite
des. 21, 2020, 9:12pm

Actually, It Was for TWO DEAD WOMEN

Voter early, and often, and while dead seems to be this Republican fraudster's motto.
Elizabeth Bartman and Elizabeth Weihman "registered" to vote as Republicans in Nether Providence Township, Delaware County officials said Monday. There was one problem: Both women had been dead for several years," The Philadelphia Inquirer reported Monday. "The man behind those applications, Bruce Bartman, now faces two felony counts of perjury, as well as one count of unlawful voting for successfully casting an absentee ballot for President Donald Trump in the name of Elizabeth Bartman, his long-dead mother."
Psycho!

156Earthling1
des. 21, 2020, 9:34pm

Election Results Are ‘Untrustworthy;’ Certification Should Be Rescinded

The chairman of the judiciary subcommittee in Georgia that examined evidence of fraud in the 2020 election has released a scathing 15-page report calling the results of the 2020 election “untrustworthy”, recommending that the certification of the results be rescinded.

Georgia State Senator William T. Ligon, Chairman of the Election Law subcommittee, reached that conclusion after reviewing the recount process, the audit process, current investigations taking place, and litigation that is moving forward. His subcommittee also heard testimonies from witnesses during an open hearing at the Georgia State Capitol on Thursday, December 3, 2020.

“The November 3, 2020 General Election (the “Election”) was chaotic and any reported results must be viewed as untrustworthy,” Sen. Ligon wrote in his executive summary.

https://amgreatness.com/2020/12/21/georgia-state-senate-report-election-results-...

157KAzevedo
des. 21, 2020, 9:58pm

>156 Earthling1: You descend deeper into plain silliness with every passing day. Did you enjoy the "re-examination" of facts performed by many of your sources today? It was delicious, wasn't it?

158lriley
des. 22, 2020, 12:24am

Apparently Smartmatic has had enough of being trashed everyday by the likes of hosts from Fox News, Newsmax and OAN and has threatened all those 'news' organizations with lawsuits. Fox and Newsmax are already breaking. On Lou Dobbs' show one Eddie Perez--an expert on elections and election machines took over for what amounted to a Smartmatic infomercial for all of Dobbs' fans.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/fox-news-lou-dobbs-smartmatic-lawsuit-threat-1342...

In that infomercial all Dobbs' accusations against Smartmatic are pretty much put in the trash can. As it turns out Smartmatic's part in the 2020 election was solely and only in Los Angeles county, California and nowhere else in the USA at all anywhere and as Smartmatic points out a cursory investigation would have easily proven all of Trump's and his sycophantic enablers were lying through their eyeballs. So read it and weep Prox--you're about to lose Fox and Newsmax and FWIW Judge Jeannine and Maria Bartirloma are apparently going to get the Dobbs treatment too. Also hearing that Dominion is going to do the same--so when that's over get ready for round two.

159prosfilaes
des. 22, 2020, 1:27am

>156 Earthling1: From a political perspective, let's go with it. Invalidate the November 3, 2020 Georgia general election, and thus the January 5th Georgia runoffs, and thus Georgia may not send anyone to Congress until they can get their act together and run a proper election. Biden's still the winner, but there's two (probably) Republican seats in the Senate going unfilled. That's what you want, right?

160Earthling1
des. 22, 2020, 2:15am

President Donald Trump's attorney Rudy Guiliani says the major networks — including Fox News — won't have him on as a guest anymore now that he's trying to make a case for election fraud.

"It's been the strangest experience of my life," the former New York City mayor said Monday on Newsmax TV's "Spicer & Co." "I'm living in a country with the kind of censorship that I remember as a young child in East Germany and the Soviet Union."

"I can't get on ABC, NBC, CBS," he added. "I can't even get on Fox anymore."

He said he's "thrown off the network" if he says the word "fraud."

"I'm sorry, there was fraud," Giuliani said. "I'm telling the truth, and they're lying. Not only are they lying, they're practicing a level of censorship that is so un-American that it's frightening."

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/giuliani/2020/12/21/id/1002643/

161Earthling1
des. 22, 2020, 2:20am

"The state legislatures, they can look at all of this corruption, they can look at how their laws and their states were totally ignored, and they can take back their delegates at any time," said Ellis, one of the president's attorneys in his bid to overturn his election loss to Joe Biden. "And they can refuse to go along with the certifications that are absolutely false and fraudulent. So that's the constitutional solution."

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/insurrectionact-trump-ellis-election/2020/12/21...

162Earthling1
des. 22, 2020, 2:22am

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/peter-navarro-the-immaculate-deception-electi...

"..the thing that bothers me about all this is that there's a fundamental failure of our institutions in this country," Navarro said. "There's just too many people who hate Donald J. Trump, for whatever reason, more than they love the country."

163Earthling1
des. 22, 2020, 10:27am

President Trump's attorney Jesse Binnall complained that his opening statement before a Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud was banned on YouTube. Binnall tweeted, "YouTube has decided that my opening statement in the U.S. Senate, given under oath and based upon hard evidence, is too dangerous for you to see; they removed it. To this day, 'our evidence has never been refuted, only ignored.' Why is Google so afraid of the truth?"

On December 9, YouTube updated its policy on "election-related misinformation."

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/12/if_media_werent_scared_of_vote_frau...

Cheat, lie, change the rules. The self-indulgent solipsism of the Democrats.

164lriley
des. 22, 2020, 10:51am

Those no good rotten Supreme Court Justices--especially Coney Barrett, Kavanagh and Gorsuch but also Thomas and Alito and Roberts. Useless cucks. And now Fox and Newsmax are stepping backwards and apologizing for spreading Donald's election fraud bullshit and lies. What if OANN does the same? What if they don't and get their very existence sued out of them? Then all those two-faced Republican Senators congratulating Biden or suggesting he won. How can you hope to stage a coup with those nitwits in the way. And all the federal and district judges too who threw out one case after another for lack of evidence. And all these military leaders stepping out of the way and all these lawyers who could be helping instead of watching Giuliani make a fool out of himself and Powell sling wilder and wilder accusations. And look at Barr?--what the fuck!---all of a sudden he has scruples. Chris Christie?--Pat Robertson? What the hell! And what is it with Michael Pence--can he be trusted?

Thank God for Stephen Miller and General Flynn.Giuliani, Powell and Wood might be imbeciles but at least their loyal. Mo Brooks and Tommy Tuberville come on down. Donald needs more reinforcements--more foot soldiers--ones who are ready to actually die for him.

165MsMixte
des. 22, 2020, 3:56pm

>164 lriley: LOCK THEM ALL UP!

Any good dictator worth his or her salt would lock up those traitors and then have them disappear.

166Earthling1
des. 22, 2020, 4:21pm

More fascism on display from the left here.

167Limelite
des. 22, 2020, 7:02pm

People who hate Trump do so because they love their country. People who love Trump do so because they're misogynists and racists who hate that American democracy includes laws that forbid them from legally acting on their hatred.

Wahhh! There goes my freedom to point a gun at a black man, or put a noose around his neck if he gets "uppity"; drive my car into pro-American protestors in order to own the libs; and beat up women with no consequences whenever I feel like it because I'm a bigger stronger "better" gender who deserves whatever I want when I want it.

America has no more time for Trump, for his monkey "army," for his lickspittle bum-kissing fawning loyalists, nor for his Trumpty-Dumbpty, white male "moran," Bible thumping, pithed frog followers.

168Limelite
des. 22, 2020, 7:10pm

Here Ya Go, Gullibles, A Little Trump Fraud Music"

Get yer tickets now! 'Cause we're still selling them!.
We are anticipating President Trump's Inauguration in January, This is a bus trip with Patriots from all over the Tri-State Area Cecil, Northern Harford County Maryland, Chester County PA, & New Castle County Delaware.
$40.00each to go see the guy who lost the election get not-inaugurated. Be sure to follow the link and order yours before the scam is all sold out. And like it says, forward the offer to all our Trumpty-Dumbpty friends!

PT Barnum sure wishes he lived now. All the suckers self-identify in easy to spot red MAGA hats.

169Earthling1
Editat: des. 23, 2020, 11:49pm

Transcript from November press conference by Rudy Giuliani (my transcription)

"...is an adult citizen and resident of Michigan. She's been an employee of the city of Detroit for decades. I know her age. She can tell you her age. She was assigned to voting duties in September. She was trained by the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan. She was basically trained to cheat. She said, "I was instructed by my supervisor to adjust the mailing date of these absentee mail-in packages to be earlier than when they were actually sent in. The supervisor made that announcement for all workers to engage in that fraudulent practice." That's not me saying that. That's an American citizen saying that under oath. I don't know. Maybe you can say she's lying. But you can't say there's no evidence. This is what we call evidence. This is direct evidence, not circumstantial. I tried many, many cases, as did my colleagues here. You put a witness on the witness stand, the witness testifies to their own knowledge. This witness went on the witness stand and she will say, "I was told to adjust the date on the absentee ballots. I witnessed election workers and employees going over to the voting booth with voters in order to watch them vote and coach them for whom to vote."

Completely illegal. She will testify to that. I don't know. Biden's people can cross-examine her, but you can't just throw it away. Gee, there's no evidence? Next time you say that, you'll be lying, because there is evidence.

Then she was instructed by her supervisor not to ask for a driver's license or any photo ID when a person was trying to vote. Don't ask for identification. Why would you not ask for identification? Because you knew that a lot of people not entitled to vote are going to come in and early vote. Because you knew illegal immigrants would be allowed to vote. You knew, if you lived in Philadelphia, unless you're "stunod", that's an Italian expression for "stupid", unless you're stupid you knew that a lot of people were coming over from Camden to vote. They do every year. Happens all the time in Philly. It's about as frequent as getting beat up at a Philadelphia Eagles football game. Happens all the time, all the time. And it's allowed to happen because it's a Democrat corrupt city and has been for years. And they carried it out in places they could get away with it. They didn't carry it out in neutral places. They didn't carry it out in Republican places. They didn't carry it out where the law was respected. They carried it out in a corrupt city where the district attorney releases criminals en masse, which is why it has so much crime.

She also said, "I observed a large number of people who came to the satellite location and voted in person. But they had already applied for and submitted an absentee ballot." She observed a lot of people voting twice. "I was instructed not to invalidate any ballots and not to look for any deficiencies in the ballots." Why would you do that? Because you're cheating. On purpose cheating. Intentionally cheating. You're cheating as an institution. This is an instruction from the election commission to the worker. "Don't look for any deficiencies in the ballot. I was instructed not to look at any of the signatures on the absentee ballots." If she was instructed not to look for signatures on the absentee ballots, why the heck would you sign it in the first place? In order to identify it. She was instructed not to do that, because many of the absentee ballots were fraudulent and they knew that, and that didn't want to have a count of that. "On November 4, 2020, I was instructed to improperly predate the absentee ballots when the receipt date was actually November—was after November 3rd, 2020."

Now this is really significant because Justice Alito at the Supreme Court instructed Pennsylvania that any ballot that comes in after 8:00 on November 3, 2020 had to be put aside and not opened because there's a question as to its legality and its constitutionality. What she's telling you is they blatantly disregarded that order. They took ballots that were marked the 4th and 5th and 6th and marked it down for the 3rd in blatant disregard of the order of the Supreme Court.

We have 100 more of these. I can't show them to you because those people don't want to be harassed. They don't want to have their lives torn apart by the goons on the other side. We don't do that to them. They have done that to a lot of our people. And they have done it for four years. It's outrageous that it's tolerated. And it's tolerated because you condone it in the press. You don't cover it, and you don't condemn it. It shouldn't happen to a Republican or a Democrat. A lawyer shouldn't have to withdraw from a case because he's representing the president of the United States. There are many more affidavits here. I'd like to read them all to you but I don't have the time. You should have had the time and energy to go look for them. That's your job, like it's my job to defend the president and represent the president. It's your job to read these things and not falsely report that there's no evidence. Do you know how many affidavits we have in the Michigan case? 220 affidavits. They are not all public but eight of them are. Four affiants here—those are people who give an affidavit—report an incident here that under any other circumstances would have been on the front page of all your newspapers if it didn't involve the hatred you have, the irrational pathological hatred you have for the president."

170KAzevedo
Editat: des. 23, 2020, 11:02pm

>169 Earthling1: Isn't this called "beating a dead horse"?"

171kiparsky
des. 24, 2020, 12:32am

>170 KAzevedo: Tenderizing it, maybe?

172Earthling1
des. 24, 2020, 4:56pm

Fifteen years ago, a landmark report by the bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform, known informally as the Carter-Baker Commission, advised all U.S. states that in order to guarantee free and fair elections, they should: increase voter ID requirements; minimize the use of mail-in ballots, which “remain the largest source of potential voter fraud”; disallow ballot harvesting by third parties; purge voter rolls of all ineligible or fraudulent names; allow election observers to monitor ballot-counting processes without restraint or obstruction; ensure that voting machines are accurate in their tabulations; and encourage news organizations to “delay the release of any exit-poll data until the election has been decided.”

All of these recommendations were widely ignored in the elections of November 2020.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/12/yes-it-was-stolen-election-john-perazzo...

173aspirit
des. 25, 2020, 12:41am

https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/2020/united-states-050620.html (May 2020)

The nonpartisan 2005 Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, noted among its many findings and recommendations that because it takes place outside the regulated environment of local polling locations, voting by mail creates increased logistical challenges and the potential for vote fraud, especially if safeguards are lacking or when candidates or political party activists are allowed to handle mail-in or absentee ballots.

However, the Carter-Baker Commission found that where safeguards for ballot integrity are in place – for example in Oregon, where the entire state has voted by mail since 1998 – there was little evidence of voter fraud. The commission’s main recommendations on vote-by-mail and absentee voting were to increase research on vote-by-mail (and early voting) and to eliminate the practice of allowing candidates or party workers to pick up and deliver absentee ballots. Fortunately, since 2005, many states have gained substantial experience in vote-by-mail and have shown how key concerns can be effectively addressed through appropriate planning, resources, training, and messaging.

The bolding is mine.

Measures for elections integrity have been put implemented. The election he Carter Center has more recently been concerned more about the pandemic interfering with elections. Regarding the calls to challenge valid elections results, the CEO said in a press statement, "Allegations of potential rigging and widespread voter fraud are baseless, and they create the real and dangerous risk of undermining confidence in our democratic processes, inflaming tensions, and inciting violence.”

174aspirit
des. 25, 2020, 12:49am

Here's a random reminder that the newly appointed Louis DeJoy (who had no previous USPS experience but was known to be a comrade of his new boss, President Trump, if I remember correctly) showed either extreme incompetence or malicious leadership during elections this year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/2020-presidential-election-postal-data-shows-bal...

175lriley
des. 25, 2020, 1:11am

The biggest reason why so many voted early and voted by mail was the pandemic. Donald Trump made a big deal about all that and then voted early himself. Practically all the denial that Covid-19 was either hoax or a flu or whatever came from the right side of the political spectrum. On the other side of the spectrum Covid-19 is not a fucking hoax or a joke. It's why so many Biden votes are mail ballots or ballots cast early. People wanted to vote--they didn't want though to stand in line for (possibly) hours with a bunch of deniers and people who weren't taking any Covid precautions. Trump tried to discredit all of them and he also put this DeJoy character in charge of the Post Office to slow its operations down. In person day of votes which skewed very much to Covid deniers were always going to be heavily for Donald--early and mail in votes which skewed towards people who think Covid is for real were always going to be heavily for Biden. The majority of Donald's votes were counted early--the majority of Biden's votes were counted later. More people think that Covid is for real than those who don't.

Looking at Pennsylvania--it was the republican controlled legislature that changed the rules in the last couple years that Trump complains about now. Speaking of why there was such a glut of democratic votes in Pa. in the early hours of Nov. 4th--that's when the mail in ballots could finally start to be counted. That was the work of the same republican controlled legislature. Other states like Florida had counts on all that leading up to Nov. 3rd. In Pennsylvania by law (again the work of the republican led legislature) they couldn't even start the prep work until Nov. 3rd. Later on it was republican US house members leading the lawsuit against the rules put in place by the republican controlled state legislature.

176MsMixte
des. 25, 2020, 1:40am

>174 aspirit: Oh, DeJoy isn't incompetent. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and was doing a great job of malicious 'leadership' until postal employees twigged to what he was up to and conveyed the message to people who cared about getting ballots counted.

177prosfilaes
Editat: des. 25, 2020, 7:41pm

>172 Earthling1: Nice Gish gallop. We should take entirely seriously a pile of claims that have been disproven over and over again that you wouldn't take seriously if the situation was reversed. No president since 1886 (which was a post-Civil War mess) has been elected after losing that badly in the popular vote until 2016; therefore Trump won in 2016 by fraud.* No sitting president has won re-election with an approval rating as low as Trump since the dawn of modern polling (since 1950), therefore any claims that Trump won are fraud. Polls that lend creed to Trump are cited as evidence, but the mass of polls that showed Trump getting his ass kicked pre-election are ignored. Classic partisan shit.

* Sarcasm, though I'm starting to wonder, given all the fuss they put up. The point is, if there really were fool-proof indicators like this, we wouldn't need elections, and Trump is not an Eisenhower with overwhelming support.

178lriley
des. 25, 2020, 3:51am

#177--which is a good point. Donald is down by over 7 million votes and yet he's telling everyone he's been cheated. The entire voting machine angle has been debunked as a pack of lies. Lou Dobbs didn't have his show taken over by Smartmatic voting systems for an infomercial for nothing. Fox News allowed that to put off a lawsuit they would have been crushed by. Meanwhile Donald cries and cries at the same times he's sucking up suckers bank accounts.

179John5918
des. 25, 2020, 11:26pm

The Republican heroes and villains of Trump's attempt to steal the election (Guardian)

As Donald Trump peddled baseless claims of vote fraud after 3 November, democracy found out who its friends were...

180lriley
Editat: des. 26, 2020, 12:20am

Sidney Powell's secret witness turns out to be one Terpischore Lindeman-Maras. She has a history of claiming to be this and claiming to be that. The bits and pieces I've read about her so far are pretty crazy. Powell claims that TSM has an 'military' intelligence background. Apparently though TSM spent about a year in the Navy and that's all. TSM seems to have come out on the wrong end of at least a few judicial proceedings and may have a husband/ex-husband who is a pedophile. She is so obviously a grifter and not really a very good one.

It would seem to me that all these b.s. claims by Powell are not to really build any kind of coherent case but are instead in pursuit of Trump naming her as a Special Consul---anything other than that would just be insanity--any lawyer with any kind of grip on reality would realize her witness(es) are worthless. Powell is angling for something else and what she would do with those powers if given the chance with less than a month before Biden's inauguration is anybody's guess. Whether insane or not--she is deranged.

181MsMixte
Editat: des. 26, 2020, 12:42am

>180 lriley: Dominion sent one of the demand letters to Ms Carone:

"We write to you now because you have positioned yourself as a prominent leader of the ongoing misinformation campaign by pretending to have some sort of ‘insider’s knowledge’ regarding Dominion’s business activities, when in reality you were hired through a staffing agency for one day to clean glass on machines and complete other menial tasks."

Another 'witness' pushed by Squidney Powell!

It's important to note that persons appointed as Special Counsel can be removed for the following:

"Although the Attorney General may use other offices of the Department to make “inquiries,” under section 600.7(d) final action requires the “personal action” of the Attorney General. Grounds for removal are limited to “misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies.”"

also

"Section 600.7 has two provisions on redressing misconduct by special counsel. Section 600.7(c) addresses substantive and procedural issues regarding discipline. First, substantively, regarding the norms of conduct, “Special Counsel and staff shall be subject to disciplinary action for misconduct and breach of ethical duties under the same standards and to the same extent as are other employees of the Department of Justice.” "

Forgot to add the link so that those inclined to have a good chuckle may take the opportunity to read the demand letters:

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/lawyers-for-dominion-voting-systems-sent-2...

182MsMixte
des. 26, 2020, 12:45am

>180 lriley: Oh, and a link to a court case involving 'Dr' Terpsichore Lindeman-Maras:

https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/sites/ag/files/documents/RecentActions/2020-09-14...

A solid citizen, if I ever saw one!

183lriley
des. 26, 2020, 3:56am

#182--another one of Powell's witnesses *Spyder* is a 43 year old Joshua Merritt. Powell also purports that Merritt was an US Army Intelligence officer and though Merritt while in the Army did enter a program to become an intelligence analyst he didn't make it through--he washed out and finished his Army career as a Motor Pool mechanic. Apparently also Merritt has come clean about his Army days and wants out of this charade altogether.

Again it seems to me that no lawyer in their right mind would ever go into court with Lindeman-Maras or a reluctant Merritt as their star witnesses. The question is is she in her right mind or is she after something else? She has not at all been an ineffective lawyer in the past. My guess is she has something else in mind and that's she's willing to stake her reputation (maybe even her career?) on it by going through this other nonsense. It is strange--the last 4 years have been weird too.

184kiparsky
des. 26, 2020, 1:47pm

>183 lriley: Again, winning is clearly not what these people have in mind. Powell knows she's not going to win, and she doesn't care. What she cares about is building up a fan base so she can milk them for as long as possible. She's taking her inspiration from people like Oliver North, who has been coasting for decades on his involvement on the bluntly treasonous Iran/Contra affair. Her dream is to turn this into a radio gig, a book deal, and a bumper crop of appearance fees.

Obviously, most people won't be interested in her radio show, her ghost-written book, or her personal appearances, but she doesn't care about appealing to most people. She has a niche, and it is the indefatigably gullible True Believer. As we can see from the success of people like Rush Limbaugh and Michael Wiener, these people exist in sufficient number that even a minor nutbag can find a place at this trough.

I have no particular inside information, of course, but I have no doubt that this is her end game. It's the only thing that explains the frankly incoherent mess that she has presented. She didn't want to construct a winning legal case, and she didn't even try. She wanted to construct a long-running Lost Cause for herself, and that's what she's created.

185Limelite
des. 26, 2020, 3:05pm

Sidney is neither a good lawyer nor a good talent scout. Taking suggestions for her new day job below.

186MsMixte
des. 26, 2020, 3:06pm

I think Squidney has a future with the advertising department of the Seattle Kraken.

187JGL53
Editat: des. 27, 2020, 12:48pm

This all is the most bizarre soap opera I have ever witnessed. And that includes all 1,225 episodes of Dark Shadows. (I think, hypothetically, an actual vampire, werewolf, witch or gypsy curse would fit in quite nicely at this point with only slight script modifications needed.

188Earthling1
des. 30, 2020, 2:34am

The rejections of courts to hear President Donald Trump's campaign election challenges is denying him the right to due process, according to Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis on Newsmax TV.

"They need to recognize that President Trump absolutely gets the same opportunities to argue his case that President George W. Bush did in 2000," Ellis told Tuesday's "Stinchfield," pointing to the landmark Supreme Court case Bush v. Gore.

"And to treat him differently than every other sitting president in every other election is manifestly unfair according to due process and our Constitution."

...Ellis added, if the challenges do not render a remedy for the Trump campaign, the failure will not be of their work to root out election fraud, but a "failure of the Supreme Court, the Judicial branch the entire way down."

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/jennaellis-campaign-legal-adviser/2020/12/29/...

189JGL53
Editat: des. 30, 2020, 4:08pm

t**** is a whinny little girl who is unhappy about being aborted. Well, he gestated for four fucking years and that was quite enough. Rosemary's baby we don't need.

From POTUS to defendant in criminal proceedings facing serious jail time. That is quite a descent.

But being dragged crying and screaming from the White House is not very dignified. He should just board a flight to Moscow today and put all this ugliness behind him.

lol.

190John5918
des. 30, 2020, 10:48pm

>189 JGL53: a whinny little girl

That's a bit sexist isn't it? Why not a whiney little boy? Boris Johnson is known for schoolboy sexist comments, referring to someone he doesn't like as "a big girl's blouse" and to distinguished judge Lady Hale as a "girly swot".

191Earthling1
Editat: des. 31, 2020, 4:48pm

The media kept quiet about a hearing on Wednesday before the Georgia Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Elections. Perhaps they did so because important information emerged establishing beyond a doubt that significant fraud occurred in Georgia, enough to change that state's electoral votes. This post focuses on voting machine hacking, shredded evidence, statistical improbabilities, negative counts, and over one hundred thousand "adjudications" that destroyed all evidence of a citizen's original intent.

Jovan Pulitzer, the man who says there's an easy way to determine whether mail-in ballots are real or faked, announced during the hearing that his team had easily hacked into a voting system identical to the systems used during the election and then explained how that access could lead to changes in voting data

Susan Knox testified that she was at Jim Miller Park in Cobb County on November 20, the day the vote was going to be certified. That was where ballots for the election had been stored, although it's not a permanent ballot storage facility. She was in the parking lot and saw a Shredding and Recycling truck that was shredding huge bins full of ballots. Knox produced pictures proving that the bin contents were ballots. When Knox called 911, emergency services refused to show up

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/12/incriminating_facts_emerge_from_a_g...

192Limelite
des. 31, 2020, 5:17pm

Republican Attempted Disenfranchisement in GA Foiled Again!

A federal judge Wednesday ruled that Muscogee County cannot invalidate thousands of voters amid Georgia’s January runoff election based solely on their appearance in a national change-of-address database.
The ruling stems from an effort by the Texas-based group True the Vote and the Georgia Republican Party to challenge the eligibility of more than 364,000 voters because they may have moved. They say the names of those voters appear in a national change-of-address database maintained by the U.S. Postal Service.

Most counties have rejected the mass challenges, saying federal law prohibits the systemic removal of voters within 90 days of an election. But Muscogee and Ben Hill counties agreed to consider challenges to 4,033 and 152 voters, respectively.

Majority Forward filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Albany, seeking to prevent the counties from processing those challenges. And on Monday Gardner issues a temporary restraining order halting the challenges in both counties.
Good common sense prevails. US Postal Code address logs are not proof of anything, other than recent changes of address. 300+K voters didn't conspire to register to vote illegally in Georgia. To even think so is unreasonable.

What is reasonable -- as in thought of by people capable of reason -- is that college students and the military can retain voting addresses that do not correspond with their physical locations, quite legally. What is unreasonable is the out of state Republican meddling in GA's election with a demand that its voters should be burdened to prove their address before voting. The judge, being reasonable, said so in the ruling.

193Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:15pm

"It is widely recognized that especially in their coverage of matters related to Donald Trump, the mainstream media long ago abandoned any pretense of impartiality.

It is nevertheless remarkable that the media have not investigated even the more plausible-looking of the allegations of vote fraud. It did not take me long to realize that the charges were far more serious and credible than the American public had been told. In fact, this memorandum reviews the election with special reference to the allegations of fraud.

I had barely begun looking into them when I noticed that, very shortly after the election, European experts on American elections, some of whom also had advanced expertise in statistics, had published articles or given interviews in which they claimed to have seen clear evidence that the election was “rigged”! In Sweden of all places, an expert on American elections published a series of articles showing that Biden’s win in the swing states simply could not be explained without assuming major fraud.

Since Donald Trump is even more disdained by the media in Europe than he is here, I was surprised to hear a few European commentators refer to the presidential election as if its fraudulence should be obvious to all."

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-2020-election-what-happened...

194Earthling1
Editat: gen. 5, 5:17pm

"First of all, the historical record indicates that when a sitting president increases his vote totals relative to his original election, he is reelected. President Trump did increase his vote, not by hundreds of thousands of votes, but by over 10 million (not counting votes of which his supporters claim that he was robbed).

Trump’s support among Hispanics, a group often described as hostile to him, expanded to 32 percent, even more among Hispanic men.

His support among blacks increased this year by 50 percent."

195Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:19pm

The Democrats vastly outspent Republicans.

Michael Bloomberg all by himself spent something like $5 per voter in Florida.

Another example is the staggering amounts spent by billionaires, notably Big Tech executives. Much of it has been referred to as “dark money” because it largely bypassed campaign finance laws.

One example is Mark Zuckerberg’s pouring some $500 million into the election to boost the Biden vote. He did so in part by donating about $350 million to the Center for Technology and Civic Life, which worked to induce voter participation in carefully selected parts of states and municipalities. This included offering election authorities money for putting voting drop-boxes in certain areas.

It has been widely charged that these efforts were not just blatantly partisan but violated laws forbidding some ways of inducing people to go to the polls."

196Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:21pm

An astonishing example of his meeting strong resistance is that Biden won fewer American counties than any previous modern American president-elect. Obama won 873 counties in 2008. Biden barely captured 500 in 2020! (Trump won about 2,550 counties.) The record of a winner? His percentage of the vote per state did not even match that of Hillary Clinton.

197Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:22pm

What raises disturbing questions is the paradoxical exception to Biden’s weak national performance. For some reason, in just a few states, the reported Biden vote ran counter to the national trends just described. And where was this wholly aberrant pattern? Why, in the battleground states, which Trump had won in 2016. They are the states that Biden now simply had to win to capture the presidency. In those states, Biden somehow dramatically reversed his substandard trend in the rest of the country! As mentioned before, Biden could win only one of the 19 battleground counties around the U.S., but he supposedly won all of the battleground states! How could he possibly accomplish this feat? By performing very much better in the bigger cities in the battleground states than in the bigger cities elsewhere.

198Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:23pm

In the large states of Florida and Texas, with many large cities, the vote count was completed on Election Night. Not so in cities in the swing states. There, on the evening of Election Day, counting was suddenly stopped. Election observers and most others were sent home. CCTV captured what happened then at a voting place in a convention center in central Atlanta, Georgia. A few election workers stayed behind, pulled out suitcases with ballots from under a covered table and, without the legally required election observers, fed them into the voting machines into the early morning. A large number of sworn affidavits testify to local officials in the cities flagrantly violating election laws and indiscriminately accepting votes that had been challenged. There were charges of ballots being inserted into voting machines more than once. Among the many examples of “traditional” vote fraud and “irregularities” in city political machines was that dead people, non-citizens, and non-residents voted. Many votes were not cast by the people who had actually registered.

199Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:24pm

After official vote counting had been suspended, tabulations of votes took place that have astounded statisticians and computer experts. These experts have not been able to explain them except as a result of fraud. The issue here was electronic “ballot stuffing.” Votes recorded showed a uniform pattern in several states, such as giving a set percentage of votes to Biden and Trump. Some batches of electronically recorded votes were all or virtually all for Biden.

200Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:24pm

There were also various “glitches,” explained as “human errors,” some of which were electronically “corrected.” People familiar with election fraud in foreign countries have pointed to the sudden suspension of vote counting and “glitches” as characteristic of computer-generated fraud. The voting machines used in the battleground states have been shown to be rather easily manipulated, e.g., by inserting algorithms to continuously shift votes from one candidate to another. It is surely relevant that in this election, the aggregated election data were connected to the internet and even to servers abroad. That there are methods for manipulating elections through electronic voting is well known to experts, not least in the intelligence field.

201Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:25pm

In Pennsylvania, one big batch of some 550,000 votes is reported to have been 99.4 percent for Biden, a figure that is beyond preposterous

202Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:26pm

It should be noted that the possibility of fraudulent use of the Dominion voting system used in the swing states and many other states had been raised long before this election. In fact, this system has been criticized by DEMOCRATS as being highly manipulable, susceptible to engineering outcomes. Senators Ron Wyden, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren are among the prominent Democrats on record as criticizing the fraud potential of this voting system.

203Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:27pm

How could the notion of widespread vote fraud look farfetched to many? A partial explanation is that the vast majority of people are simply unaware of the many strange, suspicious aspects of the election that have been summarized here. The mainstream media have chosen to not report on them. Probably the most important explanation is that most people are more intensely partisan than they will admit even to themselves. Many are simply unwilling to face and accept that the Donald Trump they so despise might actually have done it again, received the support of the American people. No, no, that is just an unacceptable possibility! Electoral fraud must be a groundless “conspiracy theory.”

204Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:27pm

The defensive use of the term “conspiracy theory” is telling. Contrary to common belief, the fact that something is a conspiracy theory does not by definition refute it. The question for any open-minded person is: is the alleged conspiracy actual or imaginary?

205Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:28pm

Political scientists and well-informed journalists know that, for generations, political “machines” in America’s bigger cities, virtually all of them one-party enclaves, have been more or less prone to voting “irregularities.” Many Democrats concede this fact, partly because it can affect Democratic primaries. Fraud could be used against some of them or against candidates they prefer.

206Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:29pm

Now take into account the deep hostility to Trump. Is it far-fetched to think that many who consider Trump a great evil persuaded themselves that getting rid of him by almost any means was appropriate, even morally heroic?

207Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:31pm

Specifically, who wants to become known as taking seriously charges made by “Trump partisans”? Timid judges can avoid controversy and unwanted media attention by choosing not to “interfere” in the “political process.” Probably an even more important reason for the reluctance of courts to hear cases about electoral fraud in this presidential election is that the attitudes toward Trump of the vast majority of judges range from discomfort to sheer hostility. Most of them would like for this crude bully, this disrupter of the system to which they belong, to be simply gone. Would they like to hear charges of election fraud and thus seem to help Trump continue his sledgehammer attack on “the swamp” and “the deep state”? Not hardly, as John Wayne might say.

208Earthling1
Editat: gen. 5, 5:32pm

I have always been a close student of epistemology—of why people believe what they believe—and I argue that only rather unusual individuals, persons with a sensitive, active conscience and strong character, are likely to resist the ever-present inclination to look away from evidence that suggests they may be wrong.

On the basis of all of what I have learnt in the last several weeks, I do not hesitate to say that those who are flatly dismissing the charges of voter fraud in this year’s election are not the open-minded observers that they might imagine themselves to be.

Consciously or subconsciously, they are anti-Trump partisans or reflexively partisan Democrats, unless, like most people, they are merely timid souls fearing the consequences of offending others.

209Earthling1
gen. 5, 5:33pm

I am embarrassed that sophisticated Europeans should have offered real and incisive analyses of suspicious features of the election while the American mainstream media simply turned a blind eye.

210KAzevedo
gen. 5, 5:41pm

>209 Earthling1: Wait, aren't you of the mind that no one but "Americans" are capable of commenting on issues pertaining to the United States?

211KAzevedo
gen. 5, 5:49pm

Hmm, are we to assume that all theses posts are quotes from the first article? They posted many without quotations. Are they posting their own opinion among those within quotes or are they copying and posting the entire article in chunks but being sloppy?

212prosfilaes
gen. 5, 6:44pm

>208 Earthling1: As I've said, both Trump and Biden won with 306 electoral votes and slim margins in important states. There's absolutely no reason to trust the 2016 election and distrust the 2020 election; if anything, the raking over of the 2020 election should increase the trust in the 2020 election; we done the recounts, we've dug into how it was handled, and after that Republican judges and the majority of Republican representatives and senators are satisfied that there's no appreciable fraud.

I argue that only rather unusual individuals, persons with a sensitive, active conscience and strong character, are likely to resist the ever-present inclination to look away from evidence that suggests they may be wrong.

Go stand in line with the flat-earthers, the geocentrists, the creationists, and those deeply concerned about the Masons and the Illuminati. At the end of the day, that's always the excuse; the evidence is obvious, so the problem is only a few people (like me) are actually willing to look at the evidence.

213bohemima
Editat: gen. 5, 10:27pm

We have dozens of US Congressmen and, I believe, one dozen US Senators who back contesting the 2020 election.

All right. Let them show the strength of their convictions. Each of those Congressmen, and any of those Senators who ran in 2020, need to admit that their election is potentially fraudulent if they are in so-called “contested” states. They need to step down or step away, if you prefer, until the matter is decided by whatever method they might be advocating.

The presidential race is not on a separate ballot from other races. Therefore, all those races are in question.

Step up and show us all what you really believe. Otherwise your position is both a fraud and a sham.

Or scam, if you prefer the more honest term.

214prosfilaes
gen. 5, 10:44pm

>213 bohemima: Oh, yeah, one of these Georgia Senators in the runoffs has said if she wins, she'll contest the 2020 election she just won in. It doesn't look like she'll win*, but it does seem to be a pattern of people wanting to claim the election is fraudulent but somehow only the parts that Biden won.

* (A Democratic Senate looks quite likely. By the slightest of margins, 50-50 and the VP breaks ties, but no Republican control to hamper the Democrats. Cue the "you can't act unilaterally" language in 3, 2, 1...)

215John5918
Editat: gen. 5, 11:20pm

>193 Earthling1: It is widely recognized that especially in their coverage of matters related to Donald Trump, the mainstream media long ago abandoned any pretense of impartiality.

Well, no it isn't "widely recognized", except amongst people of a particular political worldview who have created and bought into that narrative. A more widely recognised narrative would be that the mainstream media is reporting it as it happens, and if that makes Trump look bad, it is simply because what he is saying and doing makes him look bad.

Perhaps the mistake you make is assuming that all the international media behaves as unprofessionally as the right wing sources from which you like to copy and paste?

Edited to add: US election 2020: The people who still believe Trump won (BBC)

When asked why they thought the election was rigged, many said they got their news from Newsmax, One America News and other outlets that have broadcast stories about alleged voter fraud. These media companies were relatively obscure until Trump took office...

Others say they did not know anyone who supported Biden, and have seen only Trump yard signs...

216Limelite
gen. 6, 12:13pm

BREAKING!!!!! ELECTION FRAUD FOUND IN GEORGIA

ELECTION DECLARED "STOLEN" BY CONSERVATIVES IS TRUE.

DONALD TRUMP AND THE FOOLS WHO FOLLOWED HIM STOLE THE ELECTION FROM REPUBLICANS AND PAWNED IT TO GEORGIA DEMOCRATS.

STACEY ABRAMS HAILED THE HERO OF THE 2020 ELECTION, AMERICAN DEMOCRACY, THE CONSTITUTION, AND THE PRINCIPAL OF UNIVERSAL VOTING RIGHTS

ABRAMS' "FAIR FIGHT" CONDUCTED REVOLUTIONARY TACTIC TURNED OUT DEMOCRATIC VOTERS, BANKED EARLY AND MAIL VOTES, OUT-PERFORMED REPUBLICANS ON VOTING DAY

ABRAMS AND "FAIR FIGHT" TURNED OUT 90% IN CORE AREAS WHILE REPUBLICANS ONLY ABLE TO TURN OUT 85%

TRUMP'S VISIT TO NORTH GA STRONGHOLDS A FAILURE

REPUBLICANS TURNED ON TRUMP AND VOTED FOR DEMOCRATIC SENATE CANDIDATES

DEMOCRATS FLIPPED 1-2 (PRE-CERTIFIED) HISTORICALLY REPUBLICAN COUNTIES BLUE

TRUMP SUPPORT IN MOST GA COUNTIES DECLINED 20% SINCE 2016, BASED ON VOTE MARGINS IN EACH OF THE THREE ELECTIONS IN GA

GA GOVERNOR'S PROSPECTS FOR REELECTION FADING

GA AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTERS "FREE AT LAST, THANK GOD, WE'RE FREE AT LAST" !!!

217KAzevedo
gen. 6, 12:16pm

>216 Limelite: HALLELUJAH!

218Limelite
gen. 6, 12:25pm

>217 KAzevedo: And AMEN!