2020: November election and beyond... (XVI)

Això és la continuació del tema 2020: November election and beyond... (XV).

ConversesPro and Con

Afegeix-te a LibraryThing per participar.

2020: November election and beyond... (XVI)

1margd
des. 13, 2020, 5:19am

Imploding MAGA World Turns to Civil War Fantasies, Secession After Supreme Court Disaster
Alaina Demopoulos | Dec. 12, 2020

..“If the Supreme Court can’t save our republic, then where is the military?..Trying to overthrow the Government by exploiting a Pandemic, thus implementing rules that break our election laws, is unconstitutional. If the DOJ and the FBI can’t do their jobs, then where is the military? This is a Coup!”...later clarified that they believe the military, which has no involvement in election auditing, should conduct a “forensic audit” in swing states, focusing on ballot boxes and dominion machines. (former Fox News pundits and unofficial Trump “advisers” Diamond & Silk, Lynette “Diamond” Hardaway and Rochelle “Silk” Richardson )

...“Destroy the GOP” and calling fellow conservatives like Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk “subversives.” (“Stop the Steal” protesters)

...demanded that Trump invoke the Insurrection Act, which allows him to deploy the military to suppress civilians...if the president does not take this step? “We’re going to have to do it ourselves later in a much more desperate, much more bloody war” (Stuart Rhodes, founder of the anti-government militia group Oath Keepers)

...statement condemning the Supreme Court for tossing the Texas-led lawsuit while suggesting that pro-Trump states should secede...“Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the Constitution” (chair of the Texas GOP, Allen West)

...“May God have mercy on America” (Todd Starnes, a former Fox News host)

...“You actually don’t need a bloody war to secede—just an agreement. If you Democrats are so convinced that 75 million people in this country are racist, sexist, xenophobic, fascist red necks, explain to me why the concept of their secession so infuriates you? I’m interested.” (Conservative commentator Candace Owens)

...“BURN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO THE FUCKING GROUND...I will have vengeance...There are only two options now. Secession or war. . .Secession is preferable...The South must rise again...I lost everything helping to put Trump in office. MY life and career were completely destroyed. Was it worth it? No, I feel utterly betrayed.” (Milo Yiannopoulos, the British alt-right troll)...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/love-drove-this-mom-to-selling-meth-and-then-death

2jburlinson
des. 13, 2020, 5:47am

The time has come to accept formally the ordinances of secession drafted and ratified in 1860 and 1861, by which each seceding Southern state or territory formally declared secession from the United States of America. The country has learned the hard way (the many hard ways) its mistake in disputing these ordinances. It's not too late.

3proximity1
Editat: des. 14, 2020, 1:33pm

Yeah, that would "solve" everything--and nothing--since, wherever one finds one's self the next morning, whether it's in a seceded state or in the remaining body from which others seceded, one still has to fight for justice, liberty and the honest, fair and open practice of the rule of law in states which are more or less, ultimately speaking, reliant on basic institutions of self-governance.

That we may or ought to now take refuge in little bailiwicks of bigotry contrived for the comfort of those geographically and ideologically sufficiently homogeneous to smother any latent divisive views--that is a lure and a delusion. Circumstances in the 21st are simply more fluid and interrelated than was the case in the 8th century--where one was born, lived and died in the same village as one's ancestors of the previous thousand years.

The Constitution's principles and the institutions which its framers devised--to evolve with changing circumstances of practical life--are intended to establish means to settle differences among citizen-equals by standards of fairness mutually recognized and accepted in order that they may live together peaceably rather than break apart into ever-smaller groups.

When one or another party can capture and corrupt the electoral system's (basically but, of course, never absolutely perfectly) fair and open processes so that it may then ensure a single pre-ordained outcome over an extended time, those aforementioned standards of fairness for the mutually-agreed settlement of disputes, whether that is in courts of law or of equity or in other tribunals or in the practice of meetings governed by rules of order, such standards are bound to fall victim to this same spreading corruption.

As we witnessed in earlier times (the Viet Nam war being a good example), what became corrupt, hidden and dishonest in one arena of public life--the prosecution of the foreign war, in this case--eventually came to corrupt more and more areas of the nation's political institutions and practices as, with a knock-on effect, one after another institution was drawn, usually unwillingly, into the gravitational pull of a central corrupting set of habits and assumptions. A vicious circle which ate away at the body-politic's general well-being was the result.

We are again in such damnably confounding times and, this time, unlike the one just mentioned, "the press" is in partnership with and an apologist for the key corrupting actors, the major part of them being, this time, Democrats rather than Republicans--though there are certainly no small number of old-establishment Republicans ideologically allied with these Democrats who, together, constitute what Trump and his backers might call the "swamp creatures" whose swamp dwellings the Trump administration had been commissioned to drain and empty.

____________________________

Video interview: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/12/10/greenwald_media_partnered_wit...

4Molly3028
Editat: des. 13, 2020, 8:40am

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/13/us/politics/trump-allies-election-overturn-co...
Trump Allies Eye Long-Shot Election Overturn in Congress, Testing Pence

"For the vice president, whom the Constitution assigns the task of tallying the results and declaring a winner, the episode could be particularly torturous, forcing him to balance his loyalty to Mr. Trump with his constitutional duties and considerations about his own political future."

In other words, does Pence love America more than he loves Trump???

5lriley
des. 13, 2020, 8:46am

I think it's fucking rich that the State of Texas and it's top elected Republican officials think that they should be arbiters of what's fair or not fair regarding elections. Particularly this fucking Paxton who's entire staff turned on him for his corruption or that idiot Patrick who thinks nursing home residents should be ready and willing to die from Covid for his stock portfolio. Have any of the complainers actually taken a look at the Texas congressional district map? Probably fucking not. These districts are drawn and then redrawn to make sure certain outcomes happen and this isn't new. If another state say Maryland put their oar in on these inconsistencies of Texas districting or even pointed out the inhumanity of Texas's death penalty fetish or how come you all are keeping your economy open in the middle of a pandemic these same people who think Texas has some kind of right to horn in on Michigan's election would be aghast---so spare the rest of us your bullshit. If you'd been paying attention you knew what was coming.

6Limelite
des. 13, 2020, 2:49pm

Paxton to Bartiromo, "I have a 'Plan B'"

A dog and his bone.
“Going forward, I think the Trump campaign is taking our arguments that we tried to get in front of the U.S. Supreme Court, they are now going to take those, I think, state by state,” Paxton explained. “Because I think they are legitimately good constitutional arguments that don’t depend on actually proving every little instance of fraud.”
That's it. That's all there is to this plan. There is no more. Kind of a perverted 'I have a dream,' speech.

Not even the Supreme Court thought Paxton, et alia, had any kind of case for having "good constitutional arguments" to oveturn a single Democratic vote. Which states are going to cough up 10M votes to declare Trump the winner, since he can't prove any votes are fraudulent? What makes this idjit bribery suspect think the states will entertain his nonsense? Surely, he must have planned far enough ahead in his Plan B to realize that any attempt to attack the election state-by-state would be countered by each state's SoS and the Democratic Party.

Rich fantasy life is the bane of Paxton's legal mind, I suspect. Sounds to me like a personal scam to get paid by conning the gullible deluded Trumpty-Dumbpty saps who will have to Go Fund Me any such Plan B. Not even the Koch or Adelson pockets are going to be dug into for this dude's Plan B. Especially since chances are more than good that he'll be in an iron bar hotel somewhere in TX, or even a Fed Med prison for white collar criminals.

7Molly3028
Editat: des. 13, 2020, 6:11pm

The biggest takeaway from this election cycle ~

A large number of the GOPers who wear American flag
pins on their lapels and carry miniature copies of the
Constitution in their pockets are NOT true red, white
and blue Americans. The guy who humps Old Glory
has their allegiance.

8kiparsky
des. 13, 2020, 8:34pm

> proxy Impeach Biden/Harris (et seq.)! --from January 22nd, 2021!

This is sort of a milestone. I think this is the first time proxy has admitted that Biden/Harris won the election, and that the whole fraud is over. At least, that's assuming that they understand what "impeach" means, and that it's something you can only do to an elected official.

Congratulations, proxy, on accepting what everyone else figured out weeks ago. Not too sharp, but you get there in the end.

Of course, the fact that you're calling for impeachment before they even take office tells me exactly what all of your bleatings about the "unfairness" of the democrats' impeachment process are worth... but since nobody in the world is going to be listening to you going forward any more than they did before, I don't see a lot of reason to worry about that.

9prosfilaes
des. 13, 2020, 10:40pm

>1 margd: ...“You actually don’t need a bloody war to secede—just an agreement. If you Democrats are so convinced that 75 million people in this country are racist, sexist, xenophobic, fascist red necks, explain to me why the concept of their secession so infuriates you? I’m interested.” (Conservative commentator Candace Owens)

I'd argue for secession being a basic right, but there's two big problems here:

The Republicans are trying to deny the people of Georgia their right to vote, as they have in many less blatant ways over the whole South. How can we abandon the people of Georgia and the rest of the South to the hands of a people who are actively trying to disenfranchise many of them?

The other problem is "If you Democrats are so convinced"; this isn't a real request for succession, just another whine about Democrats. Anyone who was real about it would lose the support of many other Republicans. And if it became a serious alternative, people would back out, and others would just continue arguing about details, actively obstructing the succession without admitting they don't really want to secede. You know the red states get all the military and none of the debt type stuff.

10Molly3028
Editat: des. 14, 2020, 6:46am

I assume the next four years must be on the radar
screens of GOPers for a reason quite different from the
ones they have been ranting about. The GOPers are
starting to see the handwriting on the wall, and they
don't like what they see. The demographic wave is
going to be moving into the voting-age population
during the coming Dem administration. And, many of
those twenty-somethings may just look forward to
moving into southern states. Those voters will be
shunning White Nationalism and White Supremacy.

11lriley
Editat: des. 14, 2020, 7:11am

#10--there are different dynamics in place. I've just got done reading an article about the incoming republican freshman group and 9 of the new republicans are black, hispanic or Asian which says to me that despite Trump's racist dogwhistling there are inroads into these communities being made by republicans. Combine that with having a surprisingly good election in terms of house and Senate seats there is going to be more pressure on the party in power to deliver and if the Senate and Courts are stacked against the democrats they're going to have a problem. It's not unusual for the party in power to get really walloped in mid-term elections and the democrats are set up in such a way where that very well could happen. At issue is a leadership that is self congratulatory and been around forever. The ability to act and to accomplish despite the obstructions that are going to be put in their way by conservatives are going to be critical to whatever success they have in 2022. We are facing multiple crises'
that have to be dealt with or they're going to get the blame and their opposition knows that. Being the party in power is not always as easy as people think.

The democrats could very easily IMO lose control of the House in 2022. With a Senate picture almost identical to the 2020 election they should at least hold their own in the Senate. 2024 is the critical year for the Democrats in the Senate. They will be defending a lot more seats in that round.

12margd
Editat: des. 14, 2020, 9:55am

At what point do these shenanigans become treason or sedition? (Asking for voters in WI, MI, GA, PA...)
This is one snake I'll be especially glad to see slither out of the White House...

Stephen Miller on Fox & Friends says "an alternative" group of electors is also voting today:
"As we speak, an alternate slate of electors in the contested states is going to vote and we are going to send those results to Congress."

1:27 ( https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1338484357389017090 )
From Andrew Feinberg

- Travis Akers @travisakers | 9:01 AM · Dec 14, 2020

13lriley
des. 14, 2020, 9:56am

#12--Miller is both a ghoul and a complete idiot.

14margd
Editat: des. 14, 2020, 11:02am

Trump has the worst losing record in the post-election of any president ever:
3 recounts.
59 court losses.
Court losses in 7 states.
2 SCOTUS losses

Really, a staggering record of losing...

- Marc E. Elias(Dem lawyer) @marceelias | 10:41 PM · Dec 13, 2020
_______________________________________
ETA
BREAKING: There are currently no unruled upon lawsuits brought by Trump or his allies in any court. The only cases remaining in court are appeals of Trump's previous losses.

Unless they file new lawsuits, Trump and his allies will remain 1-59 in post-election litigation.

- Marc E. Elias @marceelias | 1:20 PM · Dec 13, 2020

15lriley
des. 14, 2020, 10:28am

#14--he said something a few years back about being sick and tired of winning.

16margd
des. 14, 2020, 10:39am

Wisconsin

Stunning Passage from the Latest Court Rejection of Team Trump
Andrew C. McCarthy | December 13, 2020

...So what happened in Wisconsin

...There was no there there. Despite telling the country for weeks that this was the most rigged election in history, the campaign didn’t think it was worth calling a single witness. Despite having the opportunity of a hearing before a Trump appointee (Brett H. Ludwig) who was willing to give the campaign ample opportunity to prove its case, the campaign said, “Never mind.”

...So the challenge boiled down to this: Wisconsin had allegedly flouted the Electors Clause, which empowers states legislatures to prescribe the manner of conducting elections, by allowing bureaucrats to change election law under the guise of applying it. The state was said to have done this in three ways. First, it allowed election boards to correct errors and omissions in regard to the addresses provided by witnesses vouching for absentee ballots. Second, as the pandemic tightened its grip, election officials issued guidance informing voters in the elderly and “at-risk” health categories — not all voters — that they might qualify for absentee voting under the state’s “indefinite confinement” exemption. Third, they authorized drop boxes for the submission of ballots.

Ludwig rejected these claims on the merits. As a general matter, he explained that the Constitution gives each state legislature power to prescribe the manner of conducting an election; he concluded that the Trump team was confounding this with the means by which this prescribed manner is carried out...

...It has become an article of faith among ardent Trump followers that the election was stolen. The president continues to insist that this is the case, and these flames were further fanned by 19 Republican-controlled state governments, along with 126 Republican members of Congress, who joined the meritless Texas lawsuit, tossed out by the Supreme Court on Friday. The rationalization behind that stunt was that the president has been denied his day in court. But every time a court offers him an opportunity to establish by proof what he is promoting by Twitter, Team Trump folds. Why is that?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/12/a-stunning-passage-from-the-latest-court-...

______________________________________________

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF WISCONSIN
Trump v Wisconsin 12/12/20
Decision and Order
23 p
https://www.scribd.com/document/487916351/12-12-20-Trump-v-Wisconsin-Decision

"With the Electoral College meeting just days away, the Court declined to address the issues in piecemeal fashion and instead provided plaintiff with an expedited hearing on the merits of his claims. On the morning of the hearing, the parties reached agreement on a stipulated set of facts and then presented arguments to the Court."

17Earthling1
des. 14, 2020, 11:05am

Losers hate Trump.

18margd
des. 14, 2020, 12:25pm

>14 margd: contd.

BREAKING: In advance of the meeting on the Electoral College, the Wisconsin Supreme Court REJECTS Trump appeal of his recount loss.

ALL SIGNIFICANT POST-ELECTION CASES HAVE NOW BEEN DECIDED.

Trump and his allies are 1-59 in post-election litigation.

ALERT: VICTORY IN WISCONSIN
Wisconsin Supreme Court rejects Trump Campaign appeal of Wisconsin recount results.
https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/wisconsin-2020-election-recount/

- 12:10 PM · Dec 14, 2020

19proximity1
des. 14, 2020, 1:30pm



Impeach, try, convict and remove Biden/Harris (et seq.)

Then indict, arraign, prosecute, convict and imprison them on state charges of fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud. For federal charges, indict them on federal mail-fraud and conspiracy charges.

20kiparsky
des. 14, 2020, 2:45pm

>19 proximity1: Impeach, try, convict and remove Biden/Harris (et seq.)

Okay, okay, we get it. You admit that they won the election and the argument is over. Congratulations again.

21lriley
des. 14, 2020, 3:37pm

#19--so President Pelosi?

22margd
des. 14, 2020, 3:48pm

Georgia. Sedition yet?

#Breaking Georgia Republicans are meeting at the Cap to select their own slate of Trump electors to send to Washington even as Georgia Democrats are meeting to send the official slate of Biden electors to Congress.
Image--photo of mtg ( https://twitter.com/RElliotWSB/status/1338536054098440196 )

- Richard Elliot @RElliotWSB | 12:27 PM · Dec 14, 2020

23margd
Editat: des. 14, 2020, 4:41pm

New Mexico

New: It appears the Trump campaign has filed another election challenge in federal court, this time in New Mexico — it's objecting to the use of drop boxes for voters to return absentee ballots. It was filed today, as the Electoral College is voting.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20423922/12-14-20-trump-campaign-v-ol...
Image ( https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1338572972844584960/photo/1 )
Image ( https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1338572972844584960/photo/2 )
Image ( https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1338572972844584960/photo/3 )

- Zoe Tillman (Buzzfee News) @ZoeTillman | 2:54 PM · Dec 14, 2020
https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1338574755889352705

24bohemima
des. 14, 2020, 5:06pm

It really doesn’t matter anymore. All contested states have cast their electoral votes for Biden.

So chuck your hate around, do the very things you accuse others of doing (we’ll start with pre-judging); Mr. Trump lost the election. It’s over. Face that reality, if you can.

Let’s all move on with our lives and see if we can at last get some control over COVID, which to date, in less than one year, has killed 300,000 Americans.

Remember when it was “no worse than the ordinary flu”?

25Limelite
des. 14, 2020, 5:32pm

IT'S STILL OVER!!! THE ELECTORS HAVE CERTIFIED BIDEN'S POPULAR VOTE VICTORY.

26Molly3028
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 12:42pm

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/tucker-carlson-mocks-jill-biden-and-accuses-her-of-g...
Tucker Carlson Mocks Jill Biden and Accuses Her of Going by ‘Dr.’ Because She Has ‘Status Anxiety’

My take ~ Being a female in this dude's family must be
a painful experience. Personally, I would prefer not to
have any relationship with a guy who sees me as
being a second-class citizen unworthy of a high
educational designation I have achieved. His distain for
women has become more and more evident every
week. A family intervention and visits to a mental
health professional may be in order. His birth mother's
abandonment of her family when he was a youngster
may be the cause of some kind of mid-life mental
health issue. Many of Murdoch's hires appear to have
major mental health issues.

27Molly3028
des. 15, 2020, 12:39pm

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/maria-bartiromo-claims-an-intel-source-told-her-trum...
Maria Bartiromo Claims an ‘Intel Source’ Told Her ‘Trump Did in Fact Win the Election’

Maria and Lew Dobbs, two of Murdoch's favorite hosts,
are neighbors on Planet Twilight Zone.

28Molly3028
Editat: des. 15, 2020, 12:45pm

Back on Earth ~

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/watch-mitch-mcconnell-hails-joe-biden-as-presi...

Mitch McConnell Declares Joe Biden as President-Elect: ‘The Electoral College Has Spoken’

AMEN

29Limelite
des. 15, 2020, 5:47pm

I'm standing by for the Rapture. Since Satan rules the World, I expect to see a lot of science deniers fly off the planet despite gravity. "Real butter on my popcorn, please. Thank you. Ummmm. . . delicious!"

Or is that a lie, too?

30Molly3028
Editat: des. 16, 2020, 2:41pm

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mcconnell-certify-biden-electoral-vote_n_5fd90be0...
McConnell Asks GOP Senators Not To Object To Certifying Biden’s Electoral Votes

"Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) on Tuesday urged GOP senators not to object to Congress’ formal certification of the Electoral College vote next month prior to President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration."

My take ~ 100 senators must nip-in-the-bud the
suicide mission many House GOP reps hope to carry
out in January to make their cult leader a happy
camper. All the gory details will be recorded in the
Congressional Record for posterity if they fail.

31Limelite
des. 16, 2020, 2:49pm

Possible "Crime Against Humanity" Case against Trump Over His Pandemic (lack of) Response

Widespread shock as emails reveal Trump appointee’s ‘monstrous’ call to spread COVID-19 in America

Will post-election justice be done, or will the new administration hold fast to its determination to "unite the Nation" by denying the previous' administration's egregious criminal behavior regarding Covid-19 infections and deaths in this country for fear of how Trump's rabid supporters might react?

32proximity1
des. 16, 2020, 4:54pm


>21 lriley:

... (et seq.)

Impeach, try, convict & remove Speaker Pelosi--if chosen as Speaker of the House.

Then, indict, arraign, prosecute, convict and sentence same in state and federal courts for fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud, perjury, subornation of perjury, federal mail-fraud and conspiracy to commit these.

33lriley
des. 16, 2020, 5:10pm

#32--who exactly is going to be doing all this impeaching of a speaker of the house, a v-POTUS and a POTUS? You?

34bohemima
des. 16, 2020, 5:39pm

>32 proximity1: Good luck with that. No documentary evidence, just lots and lots of hot air from people who backed a loser.

A month or so ago you were telling us how you were going to bury us. That did t pan out either.

35margd
des. 18, 2020, 9:40am

Michael Flynn: Trump could deploy military to 'rerun' election
Jordan Williams - 12/18/20

Former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn...was asked about the actions the president could take to undo the results of the election.

After Flynn suggested that the president could seize every voting machine across the country, he then suggested deploying the military in swing states that the president lost to President-elect Joe Biden.

“He could order, within the swing states if he wanted to, he could take military capabilities and basically rerun an election each in those states...not unprecedented...like it's something that we’ve never done...not calling for that...Martial law has been instituted 64 times...So I'm not calling for that. We have a constitutional process, and that has to be followed...In this crucible moment of our time, we have to pray that truth triumphs over lies, justice triumphs over abuse and fraud, honesty triumphs over corruption," Flynn said. "Our sacred honor triumphs over infamy.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/530795-michael-flynn-trump-should-deploy-milit...

36margd
des. 19, 2020, 1:54pm

Maggie Haberman (NYT) @maggieNYT | 12:34 PM · Dec 19, 2020:
https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1340349856574038017

SCOOP - Sidney Powell was in Oval Office last night as POTUS discussed making her special counsel for election fraud.

Trump Discussed Naming Campaign Lawyer as Special Counsel on Election Fraud
In a meeting at the White House on Friday, the president weighed appointing Sidney Powell, who promoted conspiracy theories about rigged voting machines, to probe voter fraud.
Maggie Haberman and Zolan Kanno-Youngs | Dec. 19, 2020
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/us/politics/trump-discussed-naming-campaign-l...

Among those pushing back on the idea was Pat Cipollone, Meadows and even Giuliani. But Giuliani separately pushed DHS this week to seize control of voting machines to examine them for possible fraud. DHS said it has no authority to do that.

The meeting got raucous, with various administration members drifting in and out and different people arguing. Powell told others they were quitters, people people briefed on the meeting The fact of the meeting - and Giuliani hope of seizing the voting machines - has alarmed some of the president's advisers, who see his desire to take his refusal to accept the election results as in a dangerous new place.

Meadows and Cipollone strenuously and repeatedly objected to these suggestions, saying there was no constitutional basis, according to the people briefed.

One person floated an executive order to seize the voting machines. That was also shot down by Cipollone, per the people briefed.

Adding to the story but two people briefed said Flynn was there as well for this meeting.
Maggie Haberman

During the meeting, the president asked about Flynn’s suggestion of deploying the military, those briefed said. That was also shot down.

37margd
Editat: des. 19, 2020, 5:30pm

Maggie Haberman (NYT) @maggieNYT | 12:34 PM · Dec 19, 2020:
https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1340349856574038017

SCOOP - Sidney Powell was in Oval Office last night as POTUS discussed making her special counsel for election fraud.

Trump Discussed Naming Campaign Lawyer as Special Counsel on Election Fraud
In a meeting at the White House on Friday, the president weighed appointing Sidney Powell, who promoted conspiracy theories about rigged voting machines, to probe voter fraud.
Maggie Haberman and Zolan Kanno-Youngs | Dec. 19, 2020
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/us/politics/trump-discussed-naming-campaign-l...

Among those pushing back on the idea was Pat Cipollone, Meadows and even Giuliani. But Giuliani separately pushed DHS this week to seize control of voting machines to examine them for possible fraud. DHS said it has no authority to do that.

The meeting got raucous, with various administration members drifting in and out and different people arguing. Powell told others they were quitters, people people briefed on the meeting The fact of the meeting - and Giuliani hope of seizing the voting machines - has alarmed some of the president's advisers, who see his desire to take his refusal to accept the election results as in a dangerous new place.

Meadows and Cipollone strenuously and repeatedly objected to these suggestions, saying there was no constitutional basis, according to the people briefed.

One person floated an executive order to seize the voting machines. That was also shot down by Cipollone, per the people briefed.

Adding to the story but two people briefed said Flynn was there as well for this meeting.
Maggie Haberman

During the meeting, the president asked about Flynn’s suggestion of deploying the military, those briefed said. That was also shot down.

_______________________________________________

Luke Zaleski (Condé Nast) @ZaleskiLuke | 12:50 PM · Dec 19, 2020:
Confirms: bad feeling about what trump is up to still. Something is wrong. Accelerating Covid deaths. Unemployment surging. The propaganda. Calls for martial law. The resigning of Barr. Russian hack. Trump’s stooges at pentagon cutting off Biden transition. More specious filings

________________________________________________
ETA:
Benjamin Wittes @benjaminwittes · 1h:
It is, shall we say, unusual for the President of the United States to meet in the Oval Office with a felon
to discuss the appointment of the criminal’s lawyer as a special counsel.

George Conway @gtconway3d | 5:10 PM · Dec 19, 2020:
And also to discuss the felon's idea of declaring martial law and ordering the military to "re-run" a free and fair presidential election.

David Frum @davidfrum | 3:42 PM · Dec 19, 2020:
Plotting a military coup seems like the kind of behaviour that impeachment and removal were invented for

Ryan Browne (CNN) @rabrowne75 | 3:35 PM · Dec 19, 2020:
Army Secretary McCarthy (@SecArmy) and Army Chief of Staff General McConville (@ArmyChiefStaff) statement from yesterday: “There is no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of an American election.”

38margd
Editat: des. 20, 2020, 7:21am

>35 margd: Michael Flynn

18 U.S.C. 2383
"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both..."

- Richard W. Painter (frmr WH ethics lawyer) @RWPUSA | 9:16 PM · Dec 19, 2020

--------------------------------------------------​
>36 margd: WH meetng

18 U.S. Code 2384. Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them.

- Trevor Wade @Margolispei | 9:18 PM · Dec 19, 2020

39Molly3028
Editat: des. 20, 2020, 7:57am

BOO HOO ~ The GOP couldn't/wouldn't replace Trump
with Pence in the 2020 election cycle because Trump
was the vote magnet for GOPers who live in
Hootervilles all across the country.

40Molly3028
Editat: des. 20, 2020, 8:25am

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/jeanine-pirros-show-runs-same-fact-check-as-lou-dobb...
Jeanine Pirro’s Show Runs Same Fact-Check as Lou Dobbs — At End of Show With Guest Host Filling In

"Regular viewers of Fox News programs might have experienced a little déjà vu on Saturday, when Justice with Judge Jeanine aired a segment fact-checking certain false claims made about voting technology company Smartmatic — virtually the same exact fact-check that Lou Dobbs had aired on his Fox Business show on Friday."

My take ~ Murdoch's lawyers' heads must have been
exploding prior to them insisting that this action had to
be taken by the FOX Financial Network.

41proximity1
des. 20, 2020, 10:39am


'President "Kick-Me" '

F'n LMFAO-OL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

42Limelite
des. 20, 2020, 1:05pm

Jokers to the right of me. . .

And a Russian asset in the WH.

Not sure that recruiting a Q-Anon lawyer is the best strategy for plotting the overthrow of the legitimate soon-to-be government of the USA. But that administration should not ignore what Trump is doing to America, not only the election crap but the cyberattack. If we shoot sentries for being asleep at their posts, and discharge admirals asleep at the wheel, then we shouldn't shirk from going after traitors, seditionists, and garden variety criminal fraudsters -- especially when they think of themselves as president of the country.

43Molly3028
Editat: des. 21, 2020, 8:58am

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/530910-republicans-desperate-to-avoid-floo...
Republicans desperate to avoid floor fight over Electoral College vote

Floor fight and calls for sedition and/or Marshall Law ~ last gasps of GOP white nationalism

To my mind, these are just examples of GOPers
recognizing the fact that the brown demographic wave
is coming up their shore. They know that the majority
of brown voters are not going to be casting votes for
their candidates. Trump is one of their final "great
white hopes."

44lriley
des. 21, 2020, 10:46am

#43--pretty sure that's going to happen. This Brooks idiot combined with the football coach and/or Rand Paul will be more than enough to send these last 4 years off with one last final clown show extravaganza. Some of these people on the republican side are just batshit fucked up. But everyone knows that this Tuberville is way in over his head and Paul basically like his dad is a would be chaos agent bomb thrower and Ayn Rand apostle.

45margd
des. 22, 2020, 4:07am

Trump assembles a ragtag crew of conspiracy-minded allies in flailing bid to reverse election loss
Toluse Olorunnipa, Josh Dawsey, Rosalind S. Helderman and Emma Brown | Dec. 21, 2020

...The president’s orbit has grown more extreme as his more mainstream allies, including Attorney General William P. Barr, have declined to endorse his increasingly radical plans to overturn the will of the voters. Trump’s unofficial election advisory council now includes a pardoned felon, adherents of the QAnon conspiracy theory, a White House trade adviser and a Russian agent’s former lover.

...(founder and former Overstock chief executive Patrick Byrne, who now promotes election conspiracy theories) resigned from the retailer in August 2019, after revealing that he had engaged in a multiyear romantic relationship with Maria Butina, the Russian graduate student who pleaded guilty in April 2019 to conspiring to act as a Russian agent and trying to build inroads on behalf of the Kremlin with prominent Republican politicians and conservative organizations, including the National Rifle Association...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-assembles-a-ragtag-crew-of-conspir...

46Molly3028
des. 22, 2020, 11:15am

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/lindsey-graham-slams-clueless-joe-biden-after-former...
Lindsey Graham Slams ‘Clueless’ Joe Biden After Former Friend Calls Him a ‘Personal Disappointment’

My take ~ The Trump era has left no doubt about what
kind of a louse Lindsey Graham actually is. John
McCain's family has had first-hand knowledge of the
unmasking.

47Molly3028
Editat: des. 22, 2020, 11:35am

https://www.mediaite.com/news/watch-5-vice-presidents-certify-opposition-elector...
WATCH: 5 Vice Presidents Certify Opposition Electoral Wins, As Mike Pence Faces Trump Ire for Same Duty

Trump has already turned on Mitch and he
is about to turn on Mike ~ nothing new here.

48lriley
des. 22, 2020, 1:04pm

#46---it's kind of a tradition that most Senators look at the Senate as a kind of Gentlemen's club with a few lady members. A bit of debate on the job maybe but later on out for drinks or dinner or a night out at the opera and on the weekends a bit of golf. Republicans and democrats hanging out altogether and all more than less friendly. There are the odd ducks. Bernie Sanders has always been kind of an odd duck--too interested in boring the rest with policy 24/7 and doesn't play golf. But generally the idea is families and spouses hang out together all the time too. This is the kind of Senate Joe Biden knows. But things began to go sour when he became a VP because Barack Obama is such a divisive political figure to republicans--he's black and he kind of jumped the line--one term Senator and then the tea party started happening and though it made more inroads in the house--someone like Ron Johnson or a Rick Scott is a tea party guy and then Ron Paul is another odd duck and then all the owning of the libs and things getting real divisive. I don't think Biden's ever really seen it until recently and 'what happened to Lindsey? we use to be such good friends' pretty much speaks to that.

49proximity1
Editat: des. 22, 2020, 3:46pm


On reconsideration, 'President "Kick-Me" ' isn't quite accurate, is it? Something about it bothered me as being "off"-target. Then it came to me.

Things are in fact much worse than this suggests; that's because, whatever else happens, fish-eyed-fool Biden and his equally out-to-lunch V.P. are, themselves too protected to ever be kicked. They're safe.

Biden's "Kick ..." sign should properly read, then, Kick US, and, more precisely still, Kick U.S., for they are the United States, rather than Biden or his successor, when he keels over, who are going to have Biden's stupidity pin a "Kick Me" sign on them.

The numerous nations hostile to the U.S., rightly or wrongly, are going to be redesigning their strategies to deal maximum mischief when Bumbling Biden takes over.

So, take notice: things are going to be more, not less, dangerous for Americans with Biden in the place of the person in charge but who, at the same time, just isn't up to the job of demanding and getting the respect from U.S. adversaries who knew, with Trump as president, their mischief was going to have a heavy price attached.

More evil than plain stupid, America's determined foes could easily figure out that the their best course was to just cool it a while until the dumbest-fuck part of the American electorate put--by hook and by crook--a dumb-fuck like Biden in office.

If we were in a movie, it would be "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" (1962)-- but with a twist;in our version, (the real-world playing-for-keeps version) playing the role of Jimmy Stewart's character, Ransom Stoddard, we have, of course, apron-wearing, dish-washing, bus-boy Joe Biden.

However, unlike in the film, the our fellow-citizens have simply run out of town the character represented by John Wayne in the film, Tom Doniphon,--run him out of town before, rather than after, he'd drawn a bead on and shot down Liberty Valance, the arch-villain portrayed so well by Lee Marvin.

So, the Liberty Valances of the world are at large and Americans have stood by and basically done and said little as a stolen election "victory" has been handed to the bus-boy team, eager to usher Tom Doniphon off stage as quickly as possible.

These Americans are about to learn what they've bargained for and the Biden-Harris supporting part of them are going to very much deserve that shit-show.

They wearing a sign Biden prepared for them and every Valance-like miscreant around the world can clearly read it:

"Kick U.S.!, hard, & Now!"

50Earthling1
des. 22, 2020, 4:23pm

If Biden is inaugurated, he will v. likely be impeached.

51lriley
des. 22, 2020, 4:52pm

#49--yes, everything was so perfect before with foreign relations. Couldn't get to the cemetery on time and was afraid his hair would get wet....then pouted and left when he found out Macron, Trudeau and buddy Boris were making fun of him. Trusted Putin's word over his own intelligence officers--made about a thousand excuses for MBS's murdering of Khasoggi. Gave Netanyahu carte blanche to fuck with the Palestinian's to his heart's desire. Sucked up to North Korea, sucked up to Turkey, sucked up to Brazil. Threw our Kurdish allies absolutely under the bus. Wanted to buy Greenland for golf courses or something--later on wanted to trade Puerto Rico for Greenland. What is this fixation with Greenland? Almost started a war with Iran--thought about starting a war with Venezuela. The space force idea is asinine as well. I hope Biden fucking kills it. Too lazy to name ambassadors around the globe.

52Limelite
des. 22, 2020, 9:45pm

Joe Biden is an astute observer and a succinct expresser of what he observes. This paraphrasing of his assessment of the Orange Stain in the WH is spot on. For the past four years it's been Trump's watch. But Trump wasn't watching; he was always tweeting or golfing.

Now he's exclusively devoting his lame duckass to avenging his election whipping by doing all he can to destroy what he swore to safeguard. Trump can't stand dogs, except when it's him.

Or, as Joe Biden accurately pointed out, Trump is "Putin's Puppy."

53Molly3028
Editat: des. 23, 2020, 9:04am

I wonder if one of the dudes here sent a bundle of
money to his favorite life-long con man and cult
personality to help him fund his next losing adventure?
Or, more likely, pay off his massive debt! Trump's cult
followers are clueless marks.

54margd
Editat: des. 23, 2020, 3:54am

You know how Trump Admin saved its shakiest actions for Friday night? Christmas Eve is the ultimate opportunity for such stunts...

Bill Kristol @BillKristol | 3:59 PM · Dec 22, 2020:
1. This thread is based on recent conversations with people whose information and judgment I trust, who in turn have spoken candidly with Trump appointees still on the inside.

Here's a question: Why did Trump and Barr, when they negotiated Barr's departure, settle on Dec. 23?

2. It could, obviously, be kind of random--a date picked last week to allow Barr to get things in order, an accommodation of Barr's family schedule, etc. But it could also be that Barr very much wanted to get out before Dec. 24, and/or that Trump wanted him out by then.

3. One obvious possibility discussed in the White House: Trump has spoken about a bunch of pardons on Christmas Eve. Some of the names may have been too much for Barr--so they agreed on his departure on Dec. 23.

4. (Or the pardons will be a few days later, but the principle holds--Barr wanted out, or Trump wanted him out, first.) But it could be more than pardons. Yesterday Barr suggested there were several things he wouldn't do that Trump wanted him to do as AG...

5. ...ranging from appointing special counsels for Hunter Biden or election fraud, to giving a legal ok for seizing voting machines or for various types of Insurrection Act-type moves by the president. Can one be confident Barr's successor as AG, Jeffrey Rosen, will also say no?

6. I'm told not. I'm told the very ambitious Rosen has pushed on earlier occasions for carrying out Trump's will only to be stopped by Barr. And people who've worked with Rosen say they wouldn't be surprised to see him, as AG, hasten to try to do Trump's will.

7. In the past, Rosen has been allied with some in the White House counsel's office and others elsewhere in the White House who've been for going whole hog for Trump, as a friend put it. They've run up against resistance from Barr but also from WH Counsel Pat Cipollone.

8. The departure of Cipollone would be a signal, as one person put it, that "all bets are off."

9. I'm also reliably told senior military officials in the Pentagon are more, not less, alarmed than they were a few weeks ago when Mark Esper was fired. The new crew of Trump loyalists in the most senior civilian positions don't seem there only to burnish their resumes, as...

10. ...one person put it. They're trying to figure out, in coordination with people in the White House, "how to make things happen." The senior military obviously retain considerable clout, to say the least. But the discussions they're having among themselves are unprecedented--

11. ...more sober and weighty than those of 1974 in the weeks before Nixon's resignation. And the difference is that Jim Schlesinger was then Secretary of Defense, committed to checking an unstable and desperate president, not to helping one.

12. All of these alarms, one hopes and trusts, will come to nothing, or at least to not too much. And the coup, in the end, will fail. But that something more than we've seen so far won't be tried--of that people aren't so confident.

13. The first thing to look for is what, if anything, happens on Dec. 24.

END
_________________________________________

Weijia Jiang (CBS) weijia | 10:39 PM · Dec 22, 2020
The President’s schedule shows he still plans to go to Mar a Lago tomorrow,
after urging Congress to get back to work on a relief package.
Image ( https://twitter.com/weijia/status/1341589289579261955/photo/1 )

55Molly3028
Editat: des. 23, 2020, 9:09am

https://www.mediaite.com/news/joe-scarborough-pounds-trumps-full-blown-crazy-vid...
Joe Scarborough Pounds Trump’s ‘Full-Blown Crazy’ Video Message: ‘He’s Got To Be On Something’

My take ~ Trump is keeping his clueless cult followers
fired up so they willingly transfer more of their hard-
earned money from their bank accounts into his. The
life-long con man is continuing his life's work.

56Limelite
des. 23, 2020, 2:03pm

>54 margd:

And my take -- sounds like Trump is setting the stage for his preemptive pardon of his kids, his own resignation, and Pence's preemptive pardon of him.

"Merry Xmas to me!"

At least.

57margd
des. 23, 2020, 3:30pm

Defense bill didn't make social media liable. Congress has votes to override veto, but a pain. Smells personal?

Kaitlan Collins (CNN) @kaitlancollins | 3:16 PM · Dec 23, 2020:
President Trump has vetoed the sweeping defense bill, which passed both chambers with veto-proof majorities.

58Limelite
Editat: des. 23, 2020, 4:41pm

I'm on the side of personal vendetta. Trump is trying to destroy Moscow Mitch, like he did Jeff Sessions, and is attempting with other Republican politicians who crossed him. That's why Trump is doing his best to sow discord in the GA Republican Party -- to not appear to be doing what he's doing, he froths the political waters with a lot of contradictory distractions and messaging.

But destroy Mitch for announcing Biden is truly P-E was the man's seal of doom where Trump was concerned. He's fine with a Democratic administration if it can't be a Trump one; it means nothing to him who's president -- as long as that person doesn't interfere with his grifts and frauds. I hope Democrats are intelligent enough to keep their hands off his scams to bilk the easily conned Trumpty-Dumbpties and know that the battle to pick is his criminal prosecution at state, federal, and international levels.

Of all his "attributes," vengeance is the premier and most consistent -- after self-adulation, of course. I'm surprised that Republicans remained so thick for four years that they never learned to "know thine enemy."

59prosfilaes
des. 23, 2020, 6:32pm

>51 lriley: Wanted to buy Greenland

See, this is one of the things where I don't think the initial idea was bad, but Trump demonstrated his fundamental incompetence. We've had bases in Greenland since 1941, and we've operated the Thule Air Base there since 1953. It's hugely valuable in any argument over the Arctic, and great circle routes from Russia and China often cross over or near Greenland. Truman was entirely right to offer to buy it, and I bet he wasn't the last president before Trump to mention it to his officials in the White House.

But if they did, it never reached the level of getting recorded. If it was just a casual comment, then it would have been better kept quiet, but then again, Trump hired the leaker, so it reflects on him. I suspect that he harped on it enough to annoy the leaker. When the idea leaked and went down with Denmark like a lead balloon, he could have passed it off with "the idea came up in discussion, we don't recall by whom, and it was never serious. We apologize for any offense the idea may have caused the Danish." But he dug in and even canceled a visit over it. It wasn't going to fly, so he should have cut the losses as soon as possible.

60jjwilson61
Editat: des. 23, 2020, 7:06pm

>59 prosfilaes: Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. In our present age a country just can't sell an inhabited territory. At the very least the inhabitants would have to be able to vote on it and I think the inhabitants would have to get a part of the sale price as well.

61margd
Editat: des. 24, 2020, 5:41am

Translation: "Please kill an American, so I can declare war and maybe save my presidency."
Sure hope Iran can resist the temptation.

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump | 4:47 PM · Dec 23, 2020:

Our embassy in Baghdad got hit Sunday by several rockets. Three rockets failed to launch. Guess where they were from: IRAN. Now we hear chatter of additional attacks against Americans in Iraq...

...Some friendly health advice to Iran: If one American is killed, I will hold Iran responsible. Think it over.

62Molly3028
Editat: des. 24, 2020, 8:09pm

Roger Stone interviewed by Tucker Carlson after receiving pardon ~

If you are a corrupt, white GOP dude, you definitely
want to appear on a TV show hosted by a white
nationalist. If you are a corrupt, white male GOPer,
you are golden in TC's eyes. Tucker is an example of a
guy representing the last gasp of the GOP's white
nationalist movement which is destined to be washed
away by a huge brown demographic wave in the near
future.

63Limelite
des. 25, 2020, 5:22pm

>61 margd:

Rich, isn't it? What -- is this a sick and evil riff -- "Only I can kill Americans!"? 300K+ dead Americans at his hand and he thinks he's entitled to go ballistic (literally) over rocket attacks on the American Embassy where no one has even been critically injured.

64Molly3028
des. 25, 2020, 5:59pm

https://www.mediaite.com/donald-trump/trump-threatens-mitch-mcconnell-and-republ...
Trump Threatens Mitch McConnell For Not Backing Election Fight: ‘I Will NEVER FORGET!’

In this post-election period, Trump has been attacking
everyone who has even suggested that he lost the
election. Chris Christie is the one major exception. I
wonder if Trump now realizes that trashing Christie's
transition work product was a major miscalculation on
his part. If Trump offered him some kind of post-
election administration position, Christie was wise to
turn down the offer.

65margd
des. 26, 2020, 9:34am

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The “Justice” Department and the FBI have done nothing about the 2020 Presidential Election Voter Fraud, the biggest SCAM in our nation’s history, despite overwhelming evidence. They should be ashamed. History will remember. Never give up. See everyone in D.C. on January 6th.
This claim about election fraud is disputed
8:14 AM · Dec 26, 2020

66margd
des. 26, 2020, 10:13am

Excerpt: VP Biden presiding presentation EC votes to Congress Jan 2017:

0:55 ( https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1342826051244851201 )

67Molly3028
Editat: des. 27, 2020, 9:36am

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/airing-of-grievances-trump-goes-on-boxing-day-twi...
Airing of Grievances: Trump Goes on Boxing Day Twitter Frenzy About Covid Checks, ‘Rigged & Stolen’ Election and More

Sorry, Trumpo ~ about 81 million voters decided that
another 4 years of chaos, hate, racism and 20k more
lies was not on their 2020 wishlists. Sadly, the life-long
con man knows that the longer he rants the more
money he will collect from his white nationalist MAGA
groupies.

68Molly3028
des. 26, 2020, 6:06pm

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/omarosa-on-msnbc-says-trump-having-psychotic-e...
Omarosa on MSNBC Says Trump Having ‘Psychotic Episode’ Over Election, ‘Reverting’ to Reality TV Host

She said that the way he’s making his case now
reminds her of “The Apprentice”, and that he is trying
to “produce a moment” that will change the outcome.
“But this is not ‘The Apprentice’, this is not a reality
show,” she said. “The American people need true
leadership, not a reality TV host, which Donald Trump
is reverting to.”

69Molly3028
Editat: des. 27, 2020, 9:31am

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/dec/26/michael-flynn-urges-trump-suppo...
Michael Flynn urges Trump supporters to protest at state capitals when Congress makes loss official

Was this dude this unbalanced while he served in our armed forces???

While the GOP has been using messaging in the 20-
teens to engage the minds and hearts of white
nationalists and white supremacists, the brown
demographic wave has been moving closer and closer
to the voting-age brackets. People in these worlds-
apart groups are not going to be joining forces under
the GOP umbrella. The GOP has been making its
preference common knowledge.

Each and every day since the November election Trump
has been proving by his actions that 81 million voters
were right and 74 million voters were dead wrong.

70Limelite
des. 27, 2020, 2:13pm

"It Will Go Down Like a Shot Dog"

Virgin Republican politician and newly minted US Sen., Tommy Tubberville, is looking for 15 minutes of infamy and a swift death by political suicide.
Tuberville. . .left the door open last week to objections to the Electoral College results. uberville's comments prompted Trump to tweet multiple stories about the new Alabama senator potentially defying McConnell. . .

"I spoke to a great gentleman, Tommy Tuberville, last night, and he is so excited," Trump told Rudy Giuliani during a brief call to Giuliani's WABC radio show on December 20.

"He said, 'You made me the most popular politician in the United States,'" Trump added. "He's great."
I'd say Tubberville reads the electorate about as effectively as Auburn's quarterback read Vanderbuilt's defenses the year he was fired as the Tigers' head coach.

A veteran Republican Senator agrees with me.
"In the Senate, it would go down like a shot dog," John Thune (R-SD) told reporters. "I just don't think it makes a lot of sense to put everybody through this when you know what the ultimate outcome is going to be."
Well, DUH!

71lriley
des. 27, 2020, 4:00pm

As of now I know of only 4 republican Senators who are still with Trump on his election claims--Tommy Tuberville-AL, Rand Paul-KY, Ted Cruz-TX and Ron Johnson-WI.

There may be a few more--if Loeffler and/or Perdue win in Georgia, Marsha Blackburn-TN, John Kennedy-LA, Cindy Hyde-Smith-MS for instance--maybe even Rick Scott-FL or Tom Cotton-AR but the bulk of Republican Senators are not going to go there. It's not a winnable strategy.

72margd
Editat: des. 28, 2020, 4:21pm

Case 6:20-cv-00660 Document 1 Filed 12/27/20 28 p.
https://electioncases.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Gohmert-v-Pence.pdf

--------------------------------------------------​

GOP lawmaker sues Pence in bid to overturn Biden win
John Kruzel - 12/28/20

Vice President Pence was sued Sunday by Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) and several other Republicans in a far-fetched bid that appeared aimed at overturning President-elect Joe Biden's election win.

The lawsuit focuses on Pence’s role in an upcoming Jan. 6 meeting of Congress to count states’ electoral votes and finalize Biden’s victory over President Trump. Typically, the vice president’s role in presiding over the meeting is a largely ceremonial one governed by an 1887 federal law known as the Electoral Count Act.

But the Republican lawsuit, which was filed against Pence in his official capacity as vice president, asks a federal judge in Texas to strike down the law as unconstitutional. The GOP plaintiffs go further: They ask the court to grant Pence the authority on Jan. 6 to effectively overturn Trump’s defeat in key battleground states.

Election law experts were dismissive of the lawsuit’s prospects for success....

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/531823-gop-lawmakers-sue-pence-in-b...

73Limelite
des. 28, 2020, 4:32pm

It's an acrimonious divorce: Crazy vs. Crazy.

74Molly3028
Editat: des. 28, 2020, 4:53pm

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/louie-gohmert-sues-mike-pence-in-hail-mar...
Louie Gohmert Sues Mike Pence in Hail Mary Attempt to Overturn Biden Win

AND

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/531830-rasmussen-quotes-stalin-in-di...
Rasmussen quotes Stalin in tweet on US election

My take ~ This is the anti-democracy lane the GOP's
four-year support of a life-long con man and cult
personality is taking America down at the present time.
Lincoln and America's Founders must be spinning in
their graves.

Will Pence perform his Constitutional duty on January 6 ?????

75Limelite
Editat: des. 28, 2020, 5:09pm

The kindest thing that can be said about the widely agreed "stupidest man in Congress" is that his lawsuit is "insane."

That's the concerted (printable) opinion of all the legal opinions I've read regarding it.

Can you imagine how the Trump appointed judge must feel being the Chosen One in this circumstance? "Here, ruin your career, your reputation, and your family." Find for Gohmert the Goat-Boy."

76lriley
des. 28, 2020, 6:01pm

#75--actually Gohmert's probably only in the top 5. My pick actually would be Clay Higgins of Louisiana. That fucking guy is dumb beyond words. I'd swear that Donald himself knows more about how the govt. runs than Higgins. The Q-anon lady is going to be up there I'm thinking and Cindy Hyde-Smith Senator from Mississippi certainly has a major intelligence handicap.

77KAzevedo
des. 28, 2020, 7:52pm

>76 lriley: Don't forget Tommy Tubberville.

78Molly3028
Editat: des. 28, 2020, 11:30pm

It appears that many GOP reps have been
attending the "Trump University School of
Grifting" for the last four years. This post-
election period is their final examination,
and they are showing the world that they
soaked up the information they were given
like sponges.

80margd
des. 29, 2020, 10:49am

Gohmert suit may force Pence's hand in effort to overturn Trump's defeat
KYLE CHENEY | 12/28/2020

...At least earlier this month, Pence was planning to oversee Biden’s victory (Jan 6) and then try to escape Trump’s ire by heading abroad for what might be his final diplomatic trip in office. If Pence ultimately opts out of participating in the session, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), the Senate president pro tem, would likely preside.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/28/gohmert-suit-pence-overturn-trumps-defe...
______________________________________________

The Proud Boys have made Hotel Harrington their gathering spot when they're in D.C.

The hotel just put out a statement that they'll close January 4th-6th, when thousands of Trump supporters are expected to come to the capitol for a last-ditch rally. Many just lost reservations
Image ( https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1343760802965286912/photo/1 )

- philip lewis (Huff Post) @Phil_Lewis_ | 10:28 PM · Dec 28, 2020

81proximity1
des. 29, 2020, 3:18pm




Pennsylvania Republicans find 'alarming discrepancy' twice the margin of Biden's victory | by Daniel Chaitin, Breaking News Editor |
| December 29, 2020 01:59 PM | The Washington Examiner


____________



"Republican lawmakers in Pennsylvania say an 'alarming discrepancy' in the presidential vote count is two times larger than the margin of President-elect Joe Biden's victory in the state.

"Their analysis, released on Monday by state Rep. Frank Ryan and more than a dozen colleagues, found different vote counts when comparing Election Day data from counties and the Statewide Uniform Registry of Electors, or SURE, system used by Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar. They also raised suspicions about there being tens of thousands fewer votes in the presidential race than overall ballots.

"Boockvar, a Democrat, cast the analysis as yet another misinformation effort designed to cast doubt on the integrity of the election. Wanda Murren, a spokeswoman for the Pennsylvania Department of State, told the Washington Examiner that the 'so-called analysis was based on incomplete data.'

"President Trump seized on the GOP assessment, tweeting that the findings were more proof that the election was stolen from him even as federal and state officials say they have not seen evidence of widespread voter fraud and dozens of lawsuits challenging the results in several battleground states have had little to no success.

"All this comes more than a month after Boockvar certified election results and Gov. Tom Wolf issued a certificate of ascertainment of presidential electors, stating that Biden received 80,555 more votes than Trump.

"According to the GOP analysis, county election results showed 6,962,607 total ballots were reported as being cast, while the SURE system indicated that only 6,760,230 total voters actually voted, which is a difference of 202,377 votes. The Republicans said this 202,377 gap, coupled with 31,547 fewer presidential race votes seen in county data, amounts to 'an alarming discrepancy' of 170,830 votes, which is more than twice the reported statewide difference between Biden and Trump." ... ...





82margd
Editat: des. 30, 2020, 11:49am

Sen. Hawley announces he will contest certification of electoral college vote
John Wagner | Dec. 30, 2020

Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) announced Wednesday that he would object next week when Congress convenes to certify the electoral college vote, a move that all but ensures at least a short delay in cementing President-elect Joe Biden’s victory.

President Trump has repeatedly suggested congressional intervention as a last-ditch way to reverse the election results, despite opposition from Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and other leading Republicans, who have conceded it is bound to fail and will put their members in an awkward position.

In a statement, Hawley said he feels compelled to put a spotlight on purported election irregularities. “At the very least, Congress should investigate allegations of voter fraud and adopt measures to secure the integrity of our elections. But Congress has so far failed to act...

Any member of the House, joined by a member of the Senate, can contest the electoral votes on Jan. 6. The challenge prompts a floor debate followed by a vote in each chamber.

Trump will inevitably lose that vote, given that Democrats control the House and a number of Senate Republicans have publicly recognized Biden’s victory, including Sen. Mitt Romney (Utah), who has called Trump’s refusal to accept the election dangerous...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress-election-vote-certification-obj...

--------------------------------------------------​

Hawley statement: https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1344307458085412867/photo/1

83margd
des. 30, 2020, 12:08pm

Trump plans Saturday Jan 21, 2020 rally in Georgia...bet it's more about Trump than Georgia.

Trump calls for Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, a fellow Republican, to resign
John Wagner | Dec. 30, 2020 at 10:29 a.m. EST

President Trump on Wednesday called for Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp to resign, escalating his criticism of a fellow Republican who has refused to intervene in the state’s presidential election or embrace Trump’s baseless claims of widespread fraud...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-calls-for-georgia-gov-brian-kemp-a...
________________________________________________

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump | 10:45 AM · Dec 30, 2020:
Hearings from Atlanta on the Georgia Election overturn now being broadcast LIVE via @RSBNetwork!

LIVE: Georgia State Senate Holds Meeting on 2020 Election 12/30/20
Wednesday, December 30 2020: Members of Georgia's Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Elections and members of the Senate Judiciary committee will hold a hearin...
youtube.com ( https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1344308641286004738 )

--------------------------------------------------​

Donald J. Trump Retweeted | 9:02 AM · Dec 30, 2020:
Team Trump (Text TRUMP to 88022) @TeamTrump

Time for state legislators to take the Election seriously.
President @realDonaldTrump needs you to DEMAND they call a SPECIAL SESSION & hear the evidence.
Contact your state legislators NOW!

GA: (404) 656-1776
WI: (608) 266-2517
MI: (517) 373-6339
AZ: (602) 542-4331
Image--phone numbers above ( https://twitter.com/TeamTrump/status/1344282683736793090/photo/1 )

--------------------------------------------------​

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump | 9:26 AM · Dec 30, 2020
Hearings from Atlanta on the Georgia Election overturn now being broadcast. Check it out. @OANN @newsmax and many more. @BrianKempGA should resign from office. He is an obstructionist who refuses to admit that we won Georgia, BIG!
Also won the other Swing States.

Twitter: Election officials have certified Joe Biden as the winner of the U.S. Presidential election

84Molly3028
Editat: des. 30, 2020, 5:54pm

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/breaking-senator-josh-hawley-announces-pl...
BREAKING: Senator Josh Hawley Announces Plans to Object to Electoral College Certification

And they wonder why 81 million Americans were fed up
with the pro-Trump crowd who now wants to question
the voting practices of brown Americans!!!!! Our
Founders and Lincoln started spinning in their graves at
warp speed at 11 a.m. today.

85margd
des. 30, 2020, 5:56pm

Pence refused to sign on to plan to overturn election, lawyers say
Tal Axelrod - 12/29/20

Lawyers representing Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) and a group of Arizona Republicans disclosed in a court filing Tuesday that Vice President Pence rejected their request to join their attempt to subvert the results of the presidential election.

...In new court filings made public Tuesday, the plaintiffs disclosed that they had reached out to Pence before filing their suit in an attempt to join forces but that their talks did not reach any kind of agreement.

“In the teleconference, Plaintiffs' counsel made a meaningful attempt to resolve the underlying legal issues by agreement, including advising the Vice President's counsel that Plaintiffs intended to seek immediate injunctive relief in the event the parties did not agree,” lawyers for Gohmert and the electors said in the filing. “Those discussions were not successful in reaching an agreement and this lawsuit was filed.”...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/532036-pence-refused-to-sign-on-to-p...

86margd
des. 31, 2020, 11:29am

Trump to return to Washington early ahead of Republican plan to disrupt certification of Biden's win
Kaitlan Collins and Kevin Liptak | December 30, 2020

...Trump is now slated to leave Palm Beach before his annual New Year's Eve party, even though guests had already gathered at his south Florida club and were told Trump would be in attendance, according to three people familiar with the matter. The President typically relishes appearing on the red carpet in front of the press and his friends, but is skipping the event altogether this year in what will be an unusual move.

...In the President's daily public schedule for Thursday, the White House stated the President and first lady Melania Trump will leave Florida at 11 a.m. ET to return to the White House.

Over the course of his stay in Florida, Trump has been single-mindedly focused on the election results and the upcoming certification process in Congress, set for January 6.

...irritated mood...

..(also) concerned Iran could retaliate in the coming days for the US drone strike that killed Iran's top general, Qasem Soleimani, one year ago.

...As he was flying to Florida for his vacation, Trump retweeted a call from one of his supporters for Pence to refuse to ratify the Electoral College count on January 6.

...lobbied senators on whether they would go along with House conservatives in objecting to the results.

...tweeted to his supporters that he'll see them in Washington on that date, a reference to large protests that are planned in the capital.

...Even as he publicly fights the results, one question he's repeatedly polled people about is whether he should attend Biden's inauguration.

...told people recently that Pence isn't doing enough to fight for him as his presidency ends, and has recently taken an interest in Pence's traditional role during the certification.

...Pence had once planned to depart on foreign travel shortly after the January 6 certification. But plans for a trip to the Middle East and Europe have now been put on hold...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/30/politics/trump-returning-to-washington-early/inde...

87margd
des. 31, 2020, 1:02pm

Bill Kristol (Bulwark, RVAT etc.) @BillKristol | 9:45 AM · Dec 31, 2020:
1. A brief thread on why we should not panic but should worry, even be a bit...alarmed.

I've been speaking with former Trump Administration officials and with other former senior national security types who remain plugged in to the Pentagon.

2. They think we'll most likely "be ok;" but they are worried about what one called the three I's:
Iran.
The Insurrection Act.
and (White House and civilian DOD leadership) Insanity.

3. Iran.
January 3 is the anniversary of Suleimani's killing, followed shortly by the end of the 40-day mourning period for Fakhrizadeh. So there is the prospect of Iranian retaliation, to which a U.S. response (or conceivably preemptive action) would certainly be

4. Iran (cont'd)
But of course there's also the possibility of the Trump Administration using an Iranian provocation to launch an action that's way beyond proportionate, as well as the possibility of simply inventing a predicate for U.S. action.

5. Iran (cont'd)
This obviously wouldn't stop the transition or even endanger it; but it would create an atmosphere of crisis and even chaos in which the second possibility--the Insurrection Act--might seem more doable.

6. The Insurrection Act.
As one former national security official put it to me, when you play out this scenario it's hard to see how it works--but even trying to invoke the Insurrection Act would create a full-blown constitutional and governmental crisis.

7. The Insurrection Act (cont'd)
The only reasons to worry about this are that Trump apparently has mention this to allies in recent days, and, I'm told, the senior civilians at DOD have been asking around--just in case!--about how it would work.

8. The Insurrection Act (cont'd)
And of course Trump is encouraging his supporters to come to D.C. on January 6; it's not at all unlikely there'll be turmoil, disturbances, perhaps violence, which would obviously be Trump's excuse for trying to invoke the Act.

9. The Insurrection Act (cont'd)
There have been preparations for such an eventuality among senior uniformed officials and others at the Pentagon who are on the side of constitutional government, and the reaction would be serious and even dramatic. And I think Trump knows that.

10. Insanity.
This the third "I" is kind of a catchall, meant to capture the real craziness of many of those with whom Trump is consulting, but also of many of the newly installed Trump civilians in the Pentagon.

11. Insanity (cont'd)
And even though the Trump appointees are serving in "acting" capacities, and are totally out of their depth, they do have actual authorities that are worrisome. Their orders could be resisted or appealed or leaked or challenged as unlawful--but...

12. Insanity (cont'd)
...as one person put it to me, these civilian officials do have levers to pull or at least try to pull, and that's worrisome.

"Let us therefore have that salutary fear of the future that makes one watchful and combative..."
-- Tocqueville, DA II 4.7

END

88Limelite
Editat: des. 31, 2020, 5:28pm

140 Republicans To Join Trump’s Effort To Overturn the Election on January 6th
JANUARY SIXTH, SEE YOU IN DC!
— Donald J. Trump (Donald J. Trump)1609355211.0
CNN's Jake Tapper cited two House Republicans telling him that over 140 GOP members of Congress will back Trump's effort to overturn the election.
2 House Republicans tell me they expect as of now that at least 140 Republican Members of the House will on Jan 6 o… https://t.co/vs84vrkcdE
— Jake Tapper (Jake Tapper)1609448356.0

________________________________
Talk about cognitive dissonance. In the meantime, Trump pins the blame for his election loss on his S-i-L! who engineered the strategy to do nothing (really) to combat the pandemic that he, Trump, gleefully adopted. Guess Trump, unlike "W," doesn't think of himself as "The Decider."

89Limelite
des. 31, 2020, 6:27pm

Secret Service Changes Presidential Detail Citing Agents Aligned with Trump

The Secret Service is planning to add a number of agents that previously worked with President-elect Joe Biden when he served as vice president.
The Secret Service has faced scrutiny in recent months following reports that some agents were told by members of the presidential detail to forgo masks when around Trump. The office also attracted attention in the past year after it allowed Anthony Ornato, who previously headed up the current administration's detail, to serve as a political adviser in the White House.

Darryl Volpicelli and Brian McDonough are among the supervisory agents that served in the previous administration that are expected to soon be added to Biden’s detail. Volpicelli will reportedly serve as second-in-command of the team, and McDonough we be a senior detail supervisor.

90margd
gen. 1, 6:07am

>80 margd: contd.

Curiouser and curiouser:

Justice Dept. Asks Judge to Toss Election Lawsuit Against Pence
Maggie Haberman and Katie Benner | Dec. 31, 2020

The Justice Department asked a federal judge on Thursday to reject a lawsuit seeking to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the results of the election (reject electoral votes for Biden), pitting the department against President Trump’s allies in Congress who have refused to accept President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory.

...(DOJ), acting on behalf of Mr. Pence, said that Republican lawmakers, led by Representative Louie Gohmert of Texas, could not invalidate the more than century-old law that governs the Electoral College process to expand an otherwise ceremonial role into one that has the power to reject electoral votes that were cast for Mr. Biden.

...also made clear in its filing that it welcomed any comments from the federal judge in the case, Jeremy D. Kernodle of the Eastern District of Texas, that would clarify that Mr. Pence’s role in the election was purely procedural.

...also said that Mr. Gohmert did not have standing to sue Mr. Pence over performing the duties as defined by the act; rather, he and the other plaintiffs should sue Congress, which passed the original law...

...move...could put (DOJ) more at odds with Mr. Trump...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/us/politics/justice-department-mike-pence-lou...

91margd
Editat: gen. 2, 7:19am

Gohmert v. Pence: plaintiffs lack standing, arguments are speculative.

Raffi Melkonian @RMFifthCircuit | 8:01 PM · Jan 1, 2021:
The Gohmert case against Pence is dismissed, as expected. 1/
Image-- p1 Order of Dismissal ( https://twitter.com/RMFifthCircuit/status/1345173447060705280/photo/1 )
--------------------------------------------------​
Gohmert v Pence. Order of Dismissal (13 p)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F2bGzVdBxdfse4C5rEytyYp3lJLq9wz9/view

__________________________________________________

Judge throws out Gohmert suit aimed at empowering Pence to overturn 2020 election results
JOSH GERSTEIN and KYLE CHENEY | 01/01/2021 09:02 PM EST

...U.S. District Court Judge Jeremy Kernodle, a Trump appointee based in Tyler, Texas, said the suit, which was filed against Pence, couldn’t be brought by an individual member of Congress, since it alleged an injury that would apply to the entire House and Senate.

Gohmert had asked the court to declare that Pence, who is constitutionally required to preside over the Jan. 6 session of Congress to certify the results of the 2020 election, had the sole authority to decide whether some of Biden’s electoral votes should be rejected — and whether alternative slates of Trump votes could be introduced instead. But Kernodle said Gohmert’s argument relied on entirely speculative circumstances...

“Congressman Gohmert’s alleged injury requires a series of hypothetical—but by no means certain—events...Plaintiffs presuppose what the Vice President will do on January 6, which electoral votes the Vice President will count or reject from contested states, whether a Representative and a Senator will object under Section 15 of the Electoral Count Act, how each member of the House and Senate will vote on any such objections, and how each state delegation in the House would potentially vote under the Twelfth Amendment absent a majority electoral vote...All that makes Congressman Gohmert’s alleged injury far too uncertain to support standing under” the Constitution...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/01/louie-gohmert-lawsuit-pence-453387

92margd
gen. 2, 11:23am

Trump making plans to fight to stay in office after Congress certifies election: report
Tom Boggioni | January 02, 2021

...(Daily Beast) notes that the president is "undeterred" by his string of court losses and "... has told advisers and close associates that he wants to keep fighting in court past Jan. 6 if members of Congress, as expected, end up certifying the electoral college results."

According to one person close to the president who did not want to be identified, "The way he sees it is: Why should I ever let this go?… How would that benefit me?"

As for his January 6th rally which he promoted on Twitter on Saturday, the president is reportedly pressing aides on ideas to ramp up the exposure including the possibilities of showing up to make a speech or even, as the report notes, ordering a flyover by military jets.

"On the day itself, protesters plan to meet in the northeast corner of the Capitol complex, where they'll hear from a list of speakers that includes Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ), Trump adviser Roger Stone, and Rep-elect Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA), who has supported the QAnon conspiracy theory. Trump has promoted the protest on Twitter, urging his supporters to attend," the report states...

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-refuse-to-leave/

93margd
gen. 2, 3:47pm

Here’s the full letter from 11 GOP senators objecting to the Jan 6th Electoral College certification:
Cruz, Johnson, Lankford, Daines, Kennedy, Blackburn, Braun, Senators-Elect Lummis, Marshall, Hagerty, Tuberville

Image ( https://twitter.com/ElizLanders/status/1345422618556510214/photo/1 )
Image ( https://twitter.com/ElizLanders/status/1345422618556510214/photo/2 )
Image ( https://twitter.com/ElizLanders/status/1345422618556510214/photo/3 )
Image ( https://twitter.com/ElizLanders/status/1345422618556510214/photo/4 )

- Elizabeth Landers (Vice News) @ElizLanders | 12:32 PM · Jan 2, 2021

94Limelite
gen. 2, 5:09pm

Republican Senators Jostling To Be Trump's Heirs

11 Republican US Senators who have presidential aspirations in the Trumpian mold have joined the mic-hugger Josh Hawley of MO in elbowing their way to the front of the Trump succession line. The usual suspects include Ted Cruz others of his ilk known for egregious cupidity, and some incoming wannabe grifters.
Tommy Tuberville (R-AL), Mike Braun (R-IN), Roger Marshall (R-KS), John Kennedy (R-LA), Jim Inhofe and James Lankford (R-OK), Marsha Blackburn and Bill Hagerty (R-TN), Ron Johnson (R-WI), and Cynthia Lummis (R-WY).
Suppose we can call this collection of Deplorables the No Standing or No Basis Republican Caucus.

In the meantime, Lady Lindsey seems to be making a play to replace Moscow Mitch at the Senate helm, or Republican minority, depending on the GA election outcome. He's trying to negotiate his divorce from Trump more amicably, without committing political suicide for his golfing buddy's sake than Mitch did. It's increasingly evident that Mitch has lost control of his caucus and has overreached the dominant wing-nuttery force in the GOP's barely breathing carcass. And Lindsey smells blood in the water.

95margd
gen. 3, 5:20am

The Lincoln Project @ProjectLincoln | 11:33 AM · Jan 2, 2021:
Meet the Senators from the new #JimCrowCaucus.

#RememberTheirNames:
@HawleyMO
@tedcruz
@RandPaul
@SenTomCotton

and the corporate America titans who are funding them: ATT
@Citibank
CharlesSchwab

1:25 ( https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1345407824428494848 )
#EveryVoteCounts

96margd
gen. 3, 5:33am

Federal appeals court rejects election lawsuit against Pence
It said U.S. Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, had no standing in his effort to put the presidential election outcome in the hands of the vice president.
Dennis Romero | Jan. 3, 2021

...Saturday night...A three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth District threw out an appeal by U.S. Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, that sought to allow Vice President Mike Pence to hand the election to Trump.

The panel agreed with a Friday ruling by the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, which said Gohmert and a group of 11 Arizona electors who favored Trump did not have standing to change Pence's role. Gohmert sued Pence in the effort to morph his job as an electoral vote counter to determinative role in the election...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/federal-appeals-court-rejects-ele...

97margd
Editat: gen. 3, 8:57am

Laurence Tribe (Harvard Law Emiratus) tribelaw | 8:23 AM · Jan 3, 2021:
The Jan 6 joint session has only 1 power under the 12th Amendment: “counting” the Electoral Votes.
The @HawleyMO objection, however groundless, must be allowed by VP.
But the @SenTedCruz effort to launch an “audit” MUST be ruled out of order:
It would require enacting a new Law

Justin Amash @justinamash | 9:22 PM · Jan 2, 2021:
Under our Constitution, the role of Congress on January 6 is to witness the opening of certificates and counting of votes by the president of the Senate. To use this occasion to substitute their own determinations for those of the states is to reject a basic tenet of our system.
______________________________________________

Laurence Tribe tribelaw | 5:04 AM · Jan 3, 2021:

From Benghazi to Emailgate to the 2020 #Cruz inquiry,
the GOP has perfected the circular technique of stirring baseless doubts with endless inquiries —
and then pointing to those doubts to undermine the legitimacy of those they oppose politically.
It’s a variant of the #BigLie

98margd
gen. 4, 4:35pm

Don Winslow donwinslow | 3:45 PM · Jan 4, 2021
NEW VIDEO: #CountryOverTrump VOLUME UP!
Over 120 Republican traitors in Congress will gather on Wednesday to try and tear down this country.
This video shows what they will really be standing for...

2:20 ( https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1346196026705629184 )

99Limelite
gen. 4, 5:27pm

BREAKING: Atlanta US Attorney, Byung "BJ" Pak, Announced Resignation Effective Immediately

The unexpected and sudden resignation comes immediately on the heels of Trump's election interference shakedown phone call to the GA Sec'y of State and the immediate response by
Raffensperger, in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America," (who) said an "appropriate venue" for an investigation would probably be the Fulton County, Georgia, District Attorney's Office.

District Attorney Fani Willis, a Democrat, said her office stood ready to investigate if a case was referred to prosecutors.
Atlanta=Fulton (and other) counties.

One can sympathize with Pak and understand a certain wisdom underlying his decision to leave now.
The U.S. attorney in Atlanta departed his post Monday, TPM has learned, after previously indicating that he would not leave until Inauguration Day.

The reason for U.S. Attorney Byung “BJay” Pak’s change of plans are not clear. In an internal email announcing his departure obtained by TPM, Pak cited only “unforeseen circumstances” as the reason he was leaving Monday rather than Jan. 20.

A Justice Department spokesperson declined to comment when TPM reached out about the departure. The White House also declined to comment.

Pak was nominated by Trump and confirmed by the Senate in 2017.
Also in response to Trump's seditious phone call, Democrats are asking the FBI and DoJ to undertake a criminal investigation into the phone call. Pak may wish to absent himself over that possibility and the possibility of state criminal same, especially if called to give evidence that might displease the Trump wing of the Republican Remnants.

If you missed the GA election official, Gabriel Sterling's, presser today broadcast on CNN and MSNBC in which he laid waste to Trump's and conspiracy theorists' lies about the GA election, here is a (reduced in comparison) fact check.

100margd
gen. 5, 3:39am

Sorry to read that GA Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger is not a saint, although people should be allowed to redeem themselves. I know former SOS, Gov Brian Kemp, isn't a saint. Still hoping Gabriel Sterling keeps his white hat...

Maddow Blog @MaddowBlog | 10:52 PM · Jan 4, 2021:
"They are two of the most egregious voter suppressors in the country."
- Stacey Abrams sets the record straight on Georgia Governor Brian Kemp and Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger
2:53 ( https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1346303572414234625 )

--------------------------------------------------​

Nonilex @nonilex | 10:54 PM · Jan 4, 2021:
Raffensperger is standing up to Trump & upholding the 11/03/20 election. But he is still advancing the GOP agenda of voter suppression & intimidation in GA w/ limits on Drop Box locations, attacking no-excuse voting & criminalizing line warming all during a pandemic ajc article:

The Jolt: On Tuesday, an offer of hot chocolate to a shivering voter could become a crime
Jim Galloway, Greg Bluestein, Tia Mitchell, Patricia Murphy | Dec 30, 2020

...Raffensperger made the point Tuesday in a bulletin to county election officials. From the press release recounting the event:

"Political organizations or advocacy groups will use the giveaways or gifts, known as “line warming,” to inappropriately influence voters in the crucial final moments before they cast their ballots. Such efforts violate the protections Georgia law has placed on campaigning near a polling location or voting line and the prohibitions on providing rewards to voters that were enacted to stop pay-for-vote schemes."

"Georgia law establishes a buffer zone around polling locations to “create an atmosphere of calm and non-interference for voters who are contemplating exercising one of their most basic constitutional rights.” Georgia law prohibits individuals from soliciting votes within 150 feet of a polling location or within 25 feet of a voter standing in line to cast their ballot (OCGA § 21-2-414)."

"The bulletin also reminds elections officials that offering food, drinks, or other items of value to voters waiting in line or those who have already voted is forbidden under Georgia law (OCGA § 21-2-570). Georgia law explicitly states that “Any person who gives or receives, offers to give or receive, or participates in the giving or receiving of money or gifts for the purpose of registering as a voter, voting, or voting for a particular candidate in any primary or election shall be guilty of a felony.”"

...(OTOH) our AJC colleague Henri Hollis...just before the Nov. 3 vote:

"At the crux of the issue are both federal and state laws meant to prevent special-interest groups from “rewarding” voters for casting their ballots. The law is meant to prevent groups from buying votes through money or other means. However, according to attorney Dara Lindenbaum, counsel for the nonprofit voting rights group Fair Fight Action, there’s a loophole: As long as anyone, such as poll workers or passers-by, can partake in the offerings, the food and drink are clearly not a reward to voters."

"Volunteers also must obey all laws against campaigning near polling places and voting lines. As long as they are not campaigning and offering their snacks to all comers, Lindenbaum said in a memo, the practice should be legal."

"In the real world, election officials tolerate volunteers giving out food and drinks at polling places as long as there is no partisan influence."

https://www.ajc.com/politics/politics-blog/the-jolt-on-tuesday-an-offer-of-hot-c...

margd: D groups WERE soliciting for food trucks, but Rs force long lines to vote.

__________________________________________________​

Georgia Voters Keep Filling Up Drop Boxes, But Could January Runoffs Be Their Last Hurrah?
Emil Moffatt • Dec 16, 2020

...Georgia counties deployed the drop boxes for the first time in June when voters cast a record number of absentee ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic.

An emergency rule passed and later extended twice by the state Election Board made the drop boxes possible.

“We made sure they’re under 24/7 video surveillance and on government property,” said Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, comparing the drop boxes to mailboxes, which aren’t monitored 24/7. “So that’s actually a better and more secure process, and it will actually get there on time if you drop it in before election time.”

Counties must also empty drop boxes at least every three days and must document a strict chain of custody over the ballots.

Timing became an even bigger issue leading up to the November election as changes at the U.S. Postal Service led to slowdowns in mail delivery.

...(after) President-elect Joe Biden won, however, ... a group of Republican state senators started making unsupported claims of ballot harvesting and calling for drop boxes to be banned.

...The emergency rule allowing for drop boxes expires at the end of January. Lawmakers will have to decide whether to give the state Election Board the authority to extend the rule again.

Raffensperger says that decision should be left up to counties.

“They understand the local needs of their voters, and they also respond to their election boards and then it has to be funded by the county commissioners,” said Raffensperger.

https://www.wabe.org/georgia-voters-keep-using-drop-boxes-but-could-january-runo...

101margd
Editat: gen. 5, 10:50am


Pence and Trump this afternoon are hearing a last minute pitch in the W.H. from Giuliani and John Eastman, another Trump attorney, re Jan. 6, including a discussion of the VP's role, per multiple sources.
- Annie Karni (NYT) @anniekarni5:53 PM · Jan 4, 2021

______________________________________________

NEW: Iowa Sen. Charles E. Grassley, the Senate president pro tempore, says he and not Vice President Mike Pence
will preside over the certification of Electoral College votes, since "we don't expect him to be there."
- Roll Call @rollcall | 10:06 AM · Jan 5, 2021

Pence is still expected to preside over the certification of the election results tomorrow, per his office.
- Kaitlan Collins (CNN) @kaitlancollins | 10:16 AM · Jan 5, 2021

A Grassley spokesman clarifies that the senator does not "have any indication Pence won't be present." Grassley, he said, was just trying to explain that a(s) president pro tempore of the Senate, he would fill the chair if Pence does not show or steps out at points for a break
- Nicholas Fandos @npfandos | 10:19 AM · Jan 5, 2021

______________________________________________
Another EARWORM! :D

Brave brave Sir Mike

Brave Sir Robin (1:26)
Brave Sir Robin is followed by his favourite minstrels who sing odes to his great brave deeds.
Singalong from the Deluxe Edition DVD to Monty Python and the Holy Grail...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8

- David Frum @davidfrum | 10:10 AM · Jan 5, 2021

102margd
Editat: gen. 6, 5:22am

Don Winslow donwinslow | 3:45 PM · Jan 4, 2021:
NEW VIDEO: #CountryOverTrump VOLUME UP!
Over 120 Republican traitors in Congress will gather on Wednesday to try and tear down this country.
This video shows what they will really be standing for....

2:20 ( https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1346196026705629184 )

__________________________________________________​

I don't agree with targeting families (unless participants), but re this protest, Sen. Josh Hawley is a shameless liar. So much is being revealed--BLM--Trump--Hawley--by Lordy, the tapes:

Don Winslow donwinslow | 6:44 PM · Jan 5, 2021:
NEW VIDEO: #JoshHawleyIsALiar
Watch this short video and expose this liar who used his wife and child to create a fake "victim" story. Just disgusting.
0:43 ( https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1346603610839207936 )

--------------------------------------------------​

Police: Protesters outside Sen. Josh Hawley’s home were peaceful
Michael Balsamo Associated Press | Jan 5, 2020
https://www.stltoday.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/hawley-says-antifa-scum...

__________________________________________________​

MAGA and Proud Boys are fighting cops in DC tonight.
0:20 ( https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1346663251115962368 )
From Brendan Gutenschwager

- Joshua Potash @JoshuaPotash10:41 PM · Jan 5, 2021

__________________________________________________​

103Molly3028
Editat: gen. 6, 7:33am

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-host-declares-u-s-elections-broken-just-as-...
Fox News Host Declares U.S. Elections ‘Broken’ — Just as Democrats Look Poised to Retake Senate

“It’s no good just brushing it all off and saying, It’s all because Trump is lying or Fox News propaganda whatever,” Hilton claimed. “It can’t be the case that so many millions of Americans are so brainwashed that they have these concerns. The concerns are real because the problems are real.”

Wrong, buddy ~ If what you are saying were correct,
the ad agencies on Madison Avenue in NYC, and around
the country, would be long-gone financial failures.
Cigarette smoking is the #1 example of how easy it is
to brainwash people over a period of time.

104Molly3028
Editat: gen. 6, 12:20pm

LOL ~ The Trump rally-goers in DC are being told that if they want to be hear lies the speakers will have thousands of them to pick from going forward.

105Limelite
Editat: gen. 6, 12:40pm

Hee hee. . .Ding! Dong!! Moscow Mitch is dead the wicked Mitch is dead.

Lady Lindsey ain't gonna be chair of the Judicial Comm any more. Let the healing begin.

Mike Pence is now a fossil and the Republican Party is totally bereft of leadership, identity, and direction. Is there a future for it?

Nancy Pelosi is 3rd in line again. America is more secure than it's been in 8 years.

F@ck "healing." Schummer and Pelosi need to deal legally with the Republican representatives and senators who participate in Trump's coup attempt. Destroy Hawley, Cruz, Johnson, Nunes for their illegal activities over the past four years. America will only heal when the DoJ is restored, the Pentagon purged of right wing nut ideological evangelicals, State fumigated top to bottom, and corrupt, law-breaking, dark money taking elected federal legislators.

Stand by and watch a significant diaspora from the Republican Party take place, whether to Indy or Demo matters not; they'll caucus with Dems. As for the Republican Remnant. . .there will be blood.

106margd
gen. 7, 8:48am

Pence announces Biden's victory after Congress completes electoral count (2:21)
Melissa Quinn, Grace Segers, Kathryn Watson, Stefan Becket, Audrey McNamara, Caroline Linton | January 7, 2021

Washington —Vice President Mike Pence announced just after 3:40 a.m. Thursday that President-elect Joe Biden had won the presidency after Congress completed the counting of the Electoral College votes...

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/electoral-college-vote-count-biden-victory/

108kiparsky
gen. 7, 1:07pm

>107 proximity1: Give it up. It's done. The election has been looked into and your guy lost. If you can't accept that simple reality, you're simply accepting your own permanent irrelevance.

109Limelite
gen. 7, 3:58pm

Pence To Attend 46's Inaugural

The Trump-Pence bromance is definitely over. Infuriated by being hung out to dry as the fall guy for MAGArioter attackers because he refused Trump's demand that he illegally overturn the election by stealing the ECV votes last night, Pence has been fuming all day.

Now this. He has announced his intentions to attend Biden's inauguration. I suppose he sees it as a spit in Trump's eyes and his act as the embodiment of America's continuing tradition of the peaceful transfer of power. Feeling betrayed, Pence may also be angling to usurp his Red Hat Master from the position of leadership of the Republican Remnant. Pence should be used to being humiliated, though, shouldn't he by now?

110proximity1
Editat: gen. 18, 3:25pm

Before getting it badly wrong ( and contradicting his own published views in the excerpt below), Tucker Carlson, Fox News nightly anchorman and opinion essayist (as described here in an article published in The Daily Mail (London)) got many things quite right, here, in his Wednesday, 6 January 2021 commentary,—followed by an excerpt from an opinion essay by Ben Domenech, publisher of The Federalist.



Tucker Carlson is the host of the "nightly political talk show Tucker Carlson Tonight on Fox News since 2016." (Wikipedia)

___________________________

Tucker Carlson: "We Got To This Sad, Chaotic Day For A Reason"... | RealClearPolitics | Posted By Ian Schwartz |On January 7, 2021

_______________________



... "You may have nothing in common with the people on the other side of the country (increasingly, you probably don't), but you're stuck with them. The idea that groups of Americans will somehow break off into separate peaceful nations of like-minded citizens, is a fantasy. The two hemispheres of this country are inseparably intertwined, like conjoined twins. Neither can leave without killing the other. As horrifying as this moment is, we have no option but to make it better, to gut it out.

"The second thing to consider, and it's related to the first, is why Ashli Babbit went to the rally in the first place. She bore no resemblance to the angry children we have seen wrecking our cities in recent months -- pasty, entitled nihilists dressed in black, setting fires and spray painting slogans on statues. She looked pretty much like everyone else.

"So why was she there? We ought to think about that. If you want to fix it, you have to think about that.

"The only reason this country is rich and successful is because for hundreds of years, we have enjoyed a stable political system. The only reason that system is stable is because it's a democracy, responsive to voters.

"Democracy is a pressure relief valve. As long as people sincerely believe they can change things by voting, they stay calm. They don't burst into the House chamber. They talk and they organize and they vote. But the opposite is also true if people begin to believe that their democracy is fraudulent, that voting is a charade, that the system is rigged and it's run in secret by a small group of powerful, dishonest people who are acting in their own interests. Then, God knows what could happen.

"Actually, we do know what could happen, because it's happening right now. It's happened in countless other countries over countless centuries. And the cycle is always the same because human nature never changes. (emphasis added)

" 'Listen to us!' scream the population.

" 'Shut up and do what you're told,' say their leaders.

"In the face of dissent, the first instinct of illegitimate leadership is to crack down on the population, but crackdowns never make it better. They always make the country more volatile and more dangerous. The people in charge rarely understand that. They don't want to, they don't care to learn or listen because all of this conversation is a referendum on them and their leadership. So they clamp down harder.

"This is the Romanov program, and it ends badly every single time. But that doesn't mean they won't try it again. Of course they will, because it's their nature. It's how we got here in the first place. (emphasis added)

"Millions of Americans sincerely believe the last election was fake. You can dismiss them as crazy. You can call them conspiracy theorists. You can kick them off Twitter. But that won't change their minds. Rather than trying to change their minds, to convince them and reassure them that the system is real, that democracy works—which you would do if you cared about the country or the people who live here—our new leaders will try to silence them." (emphasis added)

"What happened Wednesday will be used by the people taking power to justify stripping you of the rights you were born with as an American: Your right to speak without being censored, your right to assemble, to not be spied upon, to make a living, and to defend your family.

"These are the most basic and ancient freedoms that we have there. They're why we live here in the first place. They're why we're proud to be Americans. They're what make us different, and they're all now in peril.

"When thousands of your countrymen storm the Capitol building, you don't have to like it. We don't. You can be horrified by the violence, and we are.

"But if you don't bother to pause and learn a single thing from your citizens storming your Capitol building, then you're a fool, you lack wisdom and self-awareness, and you have no place running a country. We got to this sad, chaotic day for a reason."




______________________________



| By Ben Domenech | The Federalist (Washington, D.C.) | January 7, 2021 | The Consequences Of The Capitol Assault

_________________________________



... "blaming this on Donald Trump isn’t just too simplistic, it’s whistling past the graveyard of our norms. Of course, he egged on his crowd to go up to the Capitol and be loud and irritating. But he didn’t tell them to break down doors and crash the gates, and he didn’t need to. Blaming this on Trump assumes this type of attitude will go away when Trump himself does. That’s way too easy — it’s wishful thinking. The iconoclasm of the right is a real development, and it is here to stay. You’ll wish for the old man in the tricorn hat waving a Cato Constitution when you see the new right blasting statues with graffiti.
(emphasis added)
... ...

"On the eve of the protests yesterday, D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser, who gives all the evidence of having a brain mostly composed of pudding, demurred on offers of extra law enforcement, saying they were unnecessary and would cause confusion. The result was a group of Capitol Police who seemed woefully unprepared for the crush of the massive crowd that showed up, without riot gear or moveable barriers or the equipment necessary to peacefully quell a potentially violent gathering.

"The breach yesterday has been long in the making. Even as a young staffer I was shocked at how unsecure the Capitol was — there are numerous gaps in their security that you will easily witness if you spend any time there. It’s only the intimidating columns, the confusion about which door you can use, and the institutions and norms that keep people at bay. And those, alas, are now gone. They are dead, they are in the ground, and they are not coming back.

"This same reality applies to the conservative movement. The obvious result of yesterday’s conflagration will be a feeble attempt at a purge by the Mitt Romneys, Liz Cheneys, and Adam Kinzingers (ha!) of the GOP. This will fail because their constituency is not just outnumbered, it is utterly dominated by the populist iconoclasts. A party of the right that rejects the mob of people who spent their hard-earned, working-class money to drive to Washington, D.C., and wave a flag as deplorables will never win, or deserve to, any more than a party of the left could reject naming something Black Lives Matter plaza.

"What will happen next is obvious: A total crushing, anti-free speech effort that treats Trump-supporting groups like Branch Davidians. An effort to restore the fundamentally un-serious neocons as the voice of reason in the room. A hardening of the bounds of the People’s House to keep people away from politicians. A use of any levers of government power — including audits, regulation, and lawfare — to harass conservatives now categorized as seditionists and terrorists by the incoming president who falsely claims to want to unite the country. And above all, a doubling down on all the policies and efforts put in place to crush exactly the type of people who showed up at the Capitol yesterday in a foolish, desperate attempt to make themselves heard.

"The rioters failed in their effort and ensured their marginalization. But marginalization doesn’t mean evaporation. They’re still here. They’re still Americans. And they’re not going away. How our politicians handle that will dictate a lot about the next several years. And that shouldn’t give people a lot of hope, considering that four years after his election and two weeks before his departure, the only person they’ll apparently listen to is still Donald Trump."


________________________

(Ben Domenech is the publisher of The Federalist.)



_____________________________



(Culture) | Media Outrage Over Capitol Riot Isn’t About Defending Democracy, It’s About Wielding Power | For our political and media elites, the capitol riot on Wednesday is the perfect excuse to 'cleanse' the country of Trump supporters. | (The Federalist (Washington, D.C.) | By John Daniel Davidson | January 8, 2021.



… “But elite outrage is not really about what happened at the capitol—about the “sacred citadel of our democracy being defiled” and so on. The outrage, like almost all expressions of righteous indignation from our elites in the Trump era, is performative. It is in service of a larger purpose that has nothing to do with the peaceful transfer of power and everything to do with the wielding of power.

“Specifically, it’s about punishing supporters of President Trump. If the pro-Trump mob can be depicted as 'terrorists' and 'traitors,' then there’s almost nothing we shouldn’t do to silence them. Right? Rick Klein, the political director at ABC News, said the quiet part out loud on Thursday when he mused (in a now-deleted tweet) that getting rid of Trump is 'the easy part' and the more difficult task will be 'cleansing the movement he commands.'

“That’s not the kind of language you use when you’re in the business of reporting the news. It’s the kind of language you use when you’re in the business of social control.

“A lot of people on the right have noted the supposed hypocrisy of media elites like Klein, but it’s not really hypocrisy because Klein and his comrades don’t really have a problem with violent mobs storming into buildings and smashing windows, so long as they agree with the mob’s agenda. That’s why corporate media was so tolerant of much larger and more dangerous mobs destroying American cities for months on end last year. When Black Lives Matter rioters stormed city halls and police stations, burned down churches, and ransacked shopping districts in major U.S. cities, killing dozens and destroying livelihoods, the media offered support for the rioters’ cause, which they invoked time and again to justify their criminal acts.”

“That’s why CNN’s Chris Cuomo said, 'Please, show me where it says protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful.' That’s why his colleague, Don Lemon, compared the riots to the Boston Tea Party, saying, 'This is how our country started.'

“That’s why Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez argued 'the whole point of protesting is to make ppl uncomfortable.' That’s why incoming Vice President Kamala Harris urged her supporters to contribute to a fund to pay bail for militant anarchists who set fire to Minneapolis. That’s why reporters at MSNBC and CNN described fiery, riotous scenes as 'mostly peaceful protests'—sometimes while buildings and cars burned in the background.” …

… “Our elites—in the media, in corporate America, in politics—have no interest in that question. They don’t want to understand people like Babbitt because they don’t actually want to share a republic with them. To paraphrase Rick Klein of ABC News, they want to cleanse the country of Trump supporters, period. …

… “But the media, which sowed the wind all year long with loose talk about riots, did far more to bring down the whirlwind on Wednesday than Trump did. When you argue for months and months that there’s nothing wrong with rioting or mob action or fighting with the police, and that we have to try to understand the rioters and their complaints, don’t be surprised if a certain segment of the population takes you at your word.” …

… “(O)ur media elites … are squarely on the side of the BLM mob and against the pro-Trump mob, and they have zero interest in trying to understand why all those people showed up at the Capitol on a Wednesday in January. They do, however, have a keen interest in cracking down on the wrong kind of mob. Their outrage isn’t just a performance or a pose. It’s also a mask hiding something worse than hypocrisy: anticipation.”
_____________________________



John Davidson is the political editor at The Federalist, (Washington, D.C.)


_______________________________



“All strategy is nothing but a complicated form of self-delusion. The sorcerer's apprentice is usually engulfed by the contagious forces he has unleashed. All that he achieves in the end, in his own convoluted way, is an acceleration of the general disease. Undifferentiation and chaos prevail everywhere.”

— René Girard, A Theatre of Envy (p. 149) (1991), Oxford, Oxford University Press.




pp. 196:

“We should not believe that, because he represents the conspiracy harshly, Shakespeare must feel political sympathy for Caesar. At first sight, no doubt, Caesar seems more generous and kind than his opponents: whereas Brutus hates Caesar as much as loves him. Caesar's love is free from hatred. But Caesar can afford to be generous; neither Brutus nor any other Roman can be an obstacle to him any more. This is not enough, however, to demonstrate that Caesar stands above the mimetic law.

“On the morning of the (day of the) murder, Caesar first obeys a suggestion from his wife, who has been dreaming about his violent death, and decides not to go to the Senate; but then Decius reinterprets the dream for him, and he goes to the Senate after all. It takes only a few words of flattery from one of the conspirators to change Caesar's mind. He has become a mimetic weathervane.

“The more the dictator rises above other men, the more autonomous he subjectively feels and the less he is in reality. At the supreme instant, just before falling under the conspirators' blows, in a strange fit of exaltation, he hubristically compares himself to the North Star, the motionless light in the firmament. His self-sufficiency is no less deceptive than its erotic counterpart in the comedies (of W.S.), pseudo-narcissism.

“The more intense our mimetic pride, the more fragile it becomes, even in a physical sense. Just like the crowd and the conspirators themselves, Caesar is an example of what happens to men caught in the crisis of Degree. His common sense has left him, just as it will leave Brutus a few moments later. Because of the crisis, the quality of all desires is (generally) deteriorating.* Instead of feeling neurotically inferior, as his unsuccessful rivals do, Caesar feels neurotically superior. His symptoms look completely different, but solely because of his position inside a fragile mimetic (psychic) structure; underneath, the disease is the same. If their situations were alike, Caesar and Brutus would be not only spiritual but practical doubles. If Caesar found himself in the same position relative to some man as Brutus does relative to him, he, too, would join in a conspiracy against that man. (emphasis added)

“The dramatic process I am describing contradicts all political interpretations of Julius Caesar. Political questions are all of the same differential type: which party does Shakespeare favor in the civil war, the republicans or the monarchists? Which leader does he like best, Caesar or Brutus? Which social class does he esteem and which despise, the aristocrats or the commoners? There is no answer to these questions. Shakespeare, I believe, feels human sympathy for all his characters and antipathy for the mimetic process that turns them all into equivalent doubles.

“Political answers are one of the ways in which our insatiable appetite for differences satisfies itself. All differentialism, pre-structuralist, structuralist, post-structuralist, is equally unable to grasp the most fundamental aspect of Shakespearean dramaturgy, conflictual undifferentiation. We can see this in the fact that the most opposite political views can be defended with equal plausibility or implausibility. The case for a Shakespeare sympathetic to the Republic and hostile to Caesar is just as convincing, or unconvincing, as the reverse political view. Undecidability is the rule in Shakespeare as in all great mimetic writers, but it does not stem from some transcendental property of écriture, or from the 'inexhaustible richness' of great art; it is great art, no doubt, but carefully nurtured by the writer himself, who deals with human situations mimetically.

“One of the errors generated by the twentieth-century love affair with politics is the widespread belief that the mob-like propensities of the crowd in Julius Caesar must reflect contempt for the common man, a distressingly 'conservative' bias on the part of Shakespeare himself. His pleasantries about the foul, stinking breath of the multitude seem deplorable to our democratic prudishness, but this sentiment had not yet been invented circa 1600. The mob-like propensities of the plebeians are even less significant because all social classes are similarly affected, not only in Julius Caesar but in the other Roman plays, and indeed in all crises of Degree. Ligarius and Casca, two aristocrats, are no less prone to irrational violence than the idle workers in the first lines of the play.

“The crisis turns not only the lower classes into a mob but the aristocrats as well, via the conspiracy, or via their degrading idolatry of Caesar. Our preoccupation with class struggle distorts our appreciation not only of Shakespeare but of tragic literature in general. Undifferentiation is present in all Greek tragedy, especially in Euripides. Our virtuous defenders of the proletariat see only the symptoms that effect their protégés.

“Marxism confuses tragic undifferentiation with a vain striving for political neutrality. If Shakespeare does not lean in one direction, he must necessarily lean in the other, even if he pretends that he does not—so goes the reasoning. According to this view, politics is so intrinsically absorbing, even the politics of fifteen hundred years ago, that not even Shakespeare can be even-handed in his treatment of it; his apparent impartiality is only a devious way of playing politics.

“Shakespeare does not try to be 'impartial.' We must not see the practical equivalence of all parties in conflict as a (that is, as his own) hard-won victory of 'detachment' over 'prejudice,' as the heroic triumph of 'objectivity' over 'subjectivity,' or as some other feat of epistemological asceticism that historians of all stripes should either emulate or denounce as a mystification. Mimetic reciprocity is the structure of human relations for Shakespeare, and his dramatization of it is no laborious obligation but his intellectual and aesthetic delight. In his approach to a great historical quarrel, the objects in dispute, momentous as they seem to us, interest him much less than mimetic rivalry and its undifferentiating effects. Like 'true love' in the comedies, politics in Julius Caesar is always a direct or indirect reflection of what is taking place on some mimetic chessboard, and so is Brutus's defense of republicanism.

“I do not want to imply that political questioning is always out of place in Shakespeare. Until the mimetic logic that erases differences is established, it is premature; after this logic is in place, to enquire about the political significance of the logic is not only legitimate but imperative.

“The answers to this question will be colored by our own attitude toward the tragic vision, which is austere, to say the least; very few people have any affinity for it. That is probably why there are very few genuinely tragic writers. The mature Shakespeare knows about this unpopularity of the mimetic-tragic vision and never displays it without taking certain precautions.

“The perpetual 'plague on both your houses' in Shakespeare must not be void of political significance. When I read Julius Caesar I picture a man more nauseated with the aristocratic politics of his time than critics usually believe. I see an anti-political stance in Shakespeare that suggests a rather sardonic view of history. On political subjects he reminds me of two great French thinkers who are closer to each other than it appears, Montaigne and Pascal. The many allusions to Julius Caesar in Troilus and Cressida reinforce my conviction that the element of satire in this theater is vastly underestimated and that it extends to tragedies supposedly devoid of satiric intent.”


_______________________


* "Just like the crowd and the conspirators themselves, Caesar is an example of what happens to men caught in the crisis of Degree. His common sense has left him, just as it will leave Brutus a few moments later. Because of the crisis, the quality of all desires is (generally) deteriorating."


This is a precise description of at least some of the key elements of the mania, the crisis of Degree's illness, in the grips of which we currently find ourselves and in which we've been struggling since at least just before Nixon's tenure in the White House: common sense has left us and the quality of our common desires is debased--savagely so.

111proximity1
feb. 12, 2:45pm



... "Do any of us want to live in a world, or work in a field, where intent is categorically ruled out as a mitigating factor? I hope not."

___________________________________

"The tempter or the tempted, who sins most?

...
"Can it be
That modesty may more betray our sense
Than woman's lightness? Having waste ground enough,
Shall we desire to raze the sanctuary
And pitch our evils there?" ...
...

"Thieves for their robbery have authority
When judges steal themselves." ...

"Most dangerous
Is that temptation that doth goad us on
To sin in loving virtue"...

(Measure for Measure, II, ii.)