January 6, 2021

ConversesPro and Con

Afegeix-te a LibraryThing per participar.

January 6, 2021

1Molly3028
Editat: gen. 4, 4:03pm



https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/ben-sasse-reveals-gop-senators-care-about...
Ben Sasse Reveals GOP Senators Care ‘About How They Will Look’ to Trump’s Base While Completely Debunking Election Fraud Claims

My take ~ Many GOPers want to hang on to Trump's
white nationalist cult voters come hell or high water.
Continually shooting themselves in the foot appears to
be a long-term plan of those GOPers ~ their 21st
Century suicide mission continues.

2Limelite
des. 31, 2020, 6:59pm

Pence Asks Judge To Toss GOP Bid To Overturn EC Votes

Vice President Pence on Thursday asked a federal judge to reject a bid by Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) and other Republicans to broaden Pence’s powers in a manner that would effectively allow him to overturn President-elect Joe Biden’s electoral win. A ploy to look coy; a sincere effort to dissociated himself from lawmakers' madness and Trump's apron strings; or a fake protest because he intends to remain loyal to Trump and try to steal the election come hell or high water, in a bid for his 2024 ambitions?

It's apparent that Sen. Hawley of MO has presidential ambitions and is pinning his hopes on Trumpty Dumbpties shifting their allegiance to him in the next national election cycle. He's one of the most ambitious and shrewd Republicans in the Senate.
Pence said he was not a proper defendant to the suit.

A suit to establish that the Vice President has discretion over the count, filed against the Vice President, is a walking legal contradiction,” a Department of Justice attorney representing Pence wrote in the filing.

The Republican lawsuit seeks to invalidate the law as an unconstitutional constraint on the vice president's authority to choose among competing claims of victory when state-level election results are disputed.

Republicans in several key battleground states have disputed Biden's win and offered alternate "slates" of pro-Trump electors.
Imagine, if you will, Gohmert's suit prevails and Pence is immediately "endowed" with actual power in a heretofore ceremonial circumstance. Pence, who has publicly resisted Republican efforts to involve him in the anti-legitimate election is suddenly is in the spotlight he would have us believe he doesn't seek. Trump's pressure to exercise his new power, declare the EC validation invalid, and replace recognized electors with imposters will be enormous.

On his own, Pence's mind will be turning over his personal presidential calculations regarding his position January 6th vs. that of Hawley, and the mood of the Republican electorate. Should he "go" or should he "stay"? All the time he's fully aware of the vulture hovering behind him in Trump's form, a la Hillary Clinton.

I'll be watching from the edge of my seat with my bag of popcorn soaked in real butter, anxious to see Pence sweat.

3Molly3028
Editat: gen. 4, 4:03pm

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/vp-joe-biden-overruled-objections-to-elec...

Joe Biden Overruled Democratic Objections to Electoral College Certification for President-Elect Trump in 2017

Wishful thinking? ~ I doubt that "mother" (Pence's
wife), or his other family members, will want Mike to
shirk his Constitutional duty to the country on January
6.

4Molly3028
Editat: gen. 1, 12:32pm

https://www.mediaite.com/news/gop-congressman-slams-mark-levin-over-calling-him-...
GOP Congressman Slams Mark Levin Over Calling Him A ‘Reckless Politician’: ‘Godfather Of Outrage For Profit’

Truer words have never been spoken. GOP wingnut
radio and TV hosts have been playing the outrage-for-
profit scheme for years. They are Trump-like con men
with cult listeners and viewers who are the most
clueless, gullible people on the planet.

5Molly3028
Editat: gen. 1, 12:29pm

https://www.newsweek.com/william-cohen-donald-trump-josh-hawley-republicans-new-...
Ex-GOP Senator Says Republicans Must Form New Party or Be Trump Hostages

AMEN ~ TOO many power hungry GOPers have become
disenchanted with states-rights advocacy during this
post-election process.

6Limelite
gen. 1, 7:29pm

Let the Dissent Begin

Mitt Romney's voice in the wilderness of madness is being joined, if one or two others voicing their objections to Josh Hawley's gamble with political suicide is sufficient to suggest a shift away from the cray-cray. I won't call the growing chorus a return to reason, just a vocal stretch as they feel Trump's power waning. But it is heartwarming to see an increasing sense of willingness on the other side of the aisle to kick him in the butt on his way out the door.
“I think it’s awful. I am going to support my oath to the Constitution. That’s the loyalty test here,” said Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska).

Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) called Hawley’s move “disappointing and destructive. And borrowing from Ben Sasse it’s ambition pointing a gun at the head of democracy.” Sasse (R-Neb.) said this week that "adults don’t point a loaded gun at the heart of legitimate self-government."

“I’m going to vote to certify the election,” said Sen. Roger Wicker (R-Miss.) of Hawley’s effort. “I don’t think it’s a good idea and I don’t understand his reasoning.”

Sens. Shelly Moore Capito (R-W.Va.), Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Richard Burr (R-N.C.), who flatly said “no” Friday when asked if he would join Hawley. A simple majority is enough to certify Biden’s win, and there are 48 Senate Democrats.
In the now famous phrase of Sen. Thune -- he whom Trump wants primaried by the bat shit crazy South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem -- the Dissenters want this empty exercise to "go down like a shot dog." At last, they're starting to pump some bullets into it.

7Molly3028
Editat: gen. 2, 8:16am

Hawley may be on a mission to "kill two birds with one
stone." He wants to gain Trump's favor now, and he
wants to be seen as a hero that Trump's cult followers
could willingly accept as a national candidate in the
future. This move could leapfrog him over Pence and
anyone else contemplating a national run. With Trump
and his cult followers on his side, he could give the
GOP leaders one of three fingers.

Power-hungry Congressional senators are turning out
to be hard-to-herd cats!

8Limelite
gen. 1, 11:36pm

Loony Looey's Bizzaro Lawsuit Dismissed

Judge Jeremy Kernodle, a Trump appointee isn't having any of it. Crack! goes another Kraken! No legal standing, again. Gohmert sued the wrong person by naming Pence a defendant and as far as Gohmert's co-plaintiffs, the Republican fake electors of AZ, are concerned, they "allege an injury that is not fairly traceable to the Defendant, the Vice President of the United States." In other words, "What the hell are you fake electors doing in my court? Get thee hence." Just like all the other judges.

There are no "competing electors." There are the electors for Biden and the fake wannabe Republican electors put forward by crackpots in AZ for The Biggest LOSER. If Gohmert doesn't like the ECA law and wants to file a lawsuit, then his defendants would have to be the US House and Senate, not the VP.
It is well established that a plaintiff lacks standing where it is ‘uncertain that granting the plaintiff the relief it wants would remedy its injuries.’ Accordingly, the Court finds that the Nominee-Electors lack standing. . . The Court therefore DISMISSES the case without prejudice.

9MsMixte
gen. 2, 12:09am

>8 Limelite: Some may ask why this was dismissed without prejudice (meaning, normally, that a suit could be reworked and filed again). The answer, apparently, is that any time a federal court dismisses a claim for lack of jurisdiction, the dismissal is necessarily "without prejudice" because the court didn't decide the merits. Since these plaintiffs lack standing in the first place, it will preclude them from bringing the same claims again in any federal court. Now, if they happen to find someone with standing, the suit could be re-filed. That's not very likely, though.

10Molly3028
Editat: gen. 2, 4:27pm

Saturday, January 2
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/02/cruz-johnson-9-other-gop-sena...

My take ~
The GOP's 21st Century suicide mission continues. A
number of lunatic senators, headed by Cruz, are
working to destroy Lincoln's party before the brown
demographic wave has the opportunity to commence
the destruction. New brown voters will not be joining
the white nationalist cult that remains in its place.

11Limelite
gen. 2, 8:23pm

>9 MsMixte:

Thanks for your comment. Helpful!

12MsMixte
Editat: gen. 2, 9:44pm

>11 Limelite: You are welcome. Note that the ridiculous follow-up appeal filed by Goober Gohmert got knocked out of the stadium in what was probably a record smackdown. Judges noted that they, the administrative panel, had the benefit of the briefing before the court, and therefore didn't need to waste time saying NO, YOU CLOWNS (they put it more politely, however).

GET OUT AND STAY OUT OF OUR COURT.

13Molly3028
Editat: gen. 3, 9:40am

The modern-day GOPers are making Nixon and his era
look better & better every single day of this disgusting
Trump era. They love wearing flag pins, but they hate
our 21st Century democracy.

When Trump decided to run as a GOPer in 2015, he
saw a con man's paradise. Events have shown him to
be 100% correct.

14John5918
gen. 2, 11:14pm

Senators in final bid to derail certification of Biden's victory (BBC)

A group of US senators say they will refuse to certify Joe Biden's election victory unless a commission is set up to investigate alleged voter fraud. The 11 senators and senators-elect, led by Ted Cruz, want a 10-day delay to audit the unsubstantiated allegations. The move is not expected to succeed as most senators are expected to endorse Mr Biden in the 6 January vote...

it is clear - if it wasn't already - that the party's heart continues to be with Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his presidential loss. The effort will be futile, given the Democratic majority in the House of Representatives, but the goal for many of these politicians is not to pull off a miraculous reversal of fortune for the president. Instead, it is to curry favour with Trump's loyal base. They are wagering that the road to success in the Republican Party will continue to run through Trump and his faithful, whose support could be invaluable to senators with presidential ambitions, like Ted Cruz of Texas or Josh Hawley of Missouri, or ones concerned about future primary opposition from pro-Trump politicians...

It is a sign that the partisan rancour in the US, exacerbated by Trump's scorched-earth fight to hold on to the presidency, will not fade away anytime soon...

15Molly3028
Editat: gen. 4, 4:08pm

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/what-republicans-are-doing-wor...

by Tom Nichols ~
*a Never Trump life-time conservative
*an academic specialist on international affairs who
often appeared on Crossfire on CNN
*now a professor at the U.S. Naval War College in R.I.
*was a 1970's student in the high school where I was teaching

"The sedition caucus is worse than a treasonous
conspiracy. At least real traitors believe in something.
These people instead believe only in their own fortunes
and thus will change flags and loyalties as
circumstances require. They will always become what
they pretend to be, and so they cannot—and must not
—be trusted ever again with political power."

My take about the GOPers' actions ~ the coming brown
demographic wave is scaring the hell out of them!

16Limelite
gen. 4, 4:16pm

"Sedition Caucus" could not be more precise. If Democrats win the Senate, I certainly hope they will react appropriately to that group's ultimate disregard for their oaths of honor to the Constitution. What they have done and intend to do is actual tampering with an election, for which there are state and federal laws that criminalize such behavior.

The Sedition Caucus, and Trump should be charged with sedition, beyond the chamber disciplines available, i.e. censure. They are truly working to overthrow a legitimately elected government placed in power by the American people from whom all power flows. Nancy Pelosi should exercise her legal powers as Speaker to impose punishment on any House members who have signed on as well.

Regardless. This tape is Trump's legacy. The words, more importantly his tone.

17Limelite
gen. 4, 8:31pm

The 13 Republicans aligning themselves with Trump's interminable efforts to overturn the election are no different from necrophiliacs.

182wonderY
gen. 4, 9:57pm

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/04/proud-boys-leader-arrested...

Tarrio was arrested for an offense from his December visit. But he also had ammunition and a “high capacity feeding device” today. Mischief planned?

19Molly3028
Editat: gen. 5, 8:28am

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/george-will-says-cruz-and-hawley-are-wors...

George Will Says Cruz and Hawley Are Worse Than ‘Demented’ Conspiracy Theorists in Scathing Op-Ed

As Will sees it, the willingness of Hawley and Cruz to question the results of the November general election—despite there being no reliable evidence in support—is entirely about each of the senator’s craven political ambitions for a 2024 run to the White House.

and

My take on the Georgia election ~ If the GOP keeps
control of the U.S. Senate, God forbid, the crap we
have been experiencing the last two months is going to
be continuing every single day of the next four years.
Torturing Americans is what the GOP does best in 21st
Century America.

202wonderY
gen. 5, 12:24pm

>19 Molly3028: He sounds pretty disgusted with his party.

21Limelite
gen. 5, 1:18pm

>20 2wonderY:

Ex-party.

Will left the Repub. P. long ago and may still be an Independent. "In June 2016, citing his disapproval of Trump, Will told journalist Nicholas Ballasy in an interview that he had left the Republican party and was registered as an unaffiliated voter."

22Limelite
gen. 5, 1:25pm

A ghastly thought just occurred to me.

If the GA runoff is tight like the national election was, and since Trump has already said that the runoff is fixed and votes for Repubs "won't count," how much you wanna bet Perdue and Loeffler pull the same kind of kabuki and chaos act of endless baseless contention, with the help of wing nut Republicans, that Trump has pulled over his loss in the state?

Then, Congressional governance will remain sick and Moscow Mitch will be even more anxious to shove judges thru and block meaningful legislation. Hawley and Cruz will chortle and carry on like they're doing now, suffering no punishment or consequences. Americans will suffer even more than they have been this past year for the sake of some deplorable senators' personal ambitions.

GAK!

23kiparsky
gen. 5, 2:09pm

Since each of member of the sedition caucus was re-elected on the same ballots they're challenging, I think it would be only right to demand that they step down before they're allowed to bring their challenges. If the election was fraudulent, then clearly they're not representatives.

24davidgn
gen. 5, 3:53pm

For anyone who hasn't seen the Steve Schmidt/Ali Veshi interview from the 3rd...
https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1345748737902202880

26Molly3028
gen. 6, 5:27am

Time has come for Pence to carry out his Constitutional duties!

27margd
gen. 6, 6:39am

>22 Limelite: Unfortunately, bitterness and rancor may become a regular feature now of state and national elections...

In Pennsylvania State Senate, Repugs are refusing to seat a Dem while they battle his election in the courts. "...a departure from the normally staid and sedate workings of the chamber...potentially sets the stage for a tumultuous two-year session, which will include debate over key legislative priorities such as redistricting..."

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/pennsylvania/spl/john-fetterman-pennsylvania-s...

28mamzel
gen. 6, 2:18pm

Watching scene outside Capitol and inside Senate. What a zoo!
I have to admit I'm more than a little nervous.

29kiparsky
gen. 6, 2:54pm

I wonder if our token Trumpists are going to acknowledge that they are on the side of anarchy* and violence, and that they stand against America, or if they're going to try to pretend that they're somehow not traitors looking to destroy this country.

We'll see.

* as distinct from anarchism...

30LolaWalser
gen. 6, 3:10pm

>29 kiparsky:

(* as distinct from anarchism...

Thank you! :))