All Honor to This Man of the Left!

People who are willing to stand up for the truth, even when lies would benefit there own side, deserve our acclaim.
They deserve it ten-fold when they pay a personal price for doing so. There aren’t many such, but there are a few. God bless them!

There have been so many lies and exaggerations from the Right that it must be a huge temptation for people on the Left to say, when
lies are told about the Right, 'Serves you right. Turn about is fair play."

So when someone on the Left refuses to do that, they should be honored by all decent people. There are not many such people, but there are some.

Here is such a person: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-claims 1

And he really is a Lefty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald

But because he’s a real journalist and not a propagandist, the hyena-Left are now trying to freeze him out.

I’ve just subscribed to his newsletter, partly because I value honest reporting, Left or Right, but mainly because my side should support decent people on the Left who have the courage to defy the hyenas.

Note: when I say there are not many honest people on the Left, I’m not referring to the rank and file, but to the ones with power, the journalists, social-media tycoons, administrators of universities, professors, etc. People who ought to know better, but are willing to lie. The rank and file of the Left, like the rank and file of the Right, are dependent on their prominent people to interpret reality for them. They may be the consumers of lies and nonsense (both sides) but they are not the originators of them. As for their personal honesty, I suspect that the average Lefty and the average Righty are not too different. All human life is there.

> 1

Let's say the fire extinguisher story is false. OK. Well, your apologetic for the tRUMP-led insurrection and attempted overthrow of our form of government has only begun. Two hundred and fifty insurrectionists have been arrested and charged now. Probably a few more dozen will be. Over a thousand more could and should be. So - have all these people been framed?

Are you one of those basket cases who claimed the insurrection was a Antifa false flag? The woman insurrectionist who was crushed by the mob - Biden's fault? The woman insurrectionist who was shot by law enforcement - a sacrificial lamb to government law enforcement overreach? The attack on our capitol - no big deal? - just one of those unfortunate things that happens now and then, so, let's just basically forget about it all, after apologies for the fire extinguisher lie, and then move on?

Talking about made up bullshit - forget the fire extinguisher for a second - what about the racist lies about Pres. Barack Obama being a native of Kenya, unqualified for President? And that he was "a secret Muslim"? And that finally getting O.B. Laden should be somehow credited to G. Bush and not B. Obama? Millions believed those lies and still believe them. tRUMP helped spread them. When will we see a sincere remission and apology for that shit?

tRUMP told over 30,000 lies in the last 5 years. Are you concerned at all about that or is the fire extinguisher - and ONLY the fire extinguisher - your concern? And why, pray tell us, is that the case, Mr. Fairness-in-Media guy?

I'm a little curious about why we should honor only those who agree with Doug, and apparently only when they say something that seems to ratify his existing beliefs.

Greenwald has never struck me as anything but a desperate chancer looking to get some attention, and the cited piece doesn't do much to change my opinion. I would not be surprised to find out that we learn more about the insurrectionary Trump Pride riots over the next weeks and months of criminal trials and that initial reporting was wrong on some aspects, but I'm not going to take some op-ed written by a guy in Brazil as the final word on it, or even as a very interesting word.

As >2 JGL53: says, what we know and what is not questioned is damning enough. Once again the right has shown what it's made of, and it's only confirmed what we saw in the last four years, and what we've seen congealing over the last forty.

I think I can make my mind up on pretty much on anything without watching CNN or MSNBC or reading the New York Fucking Times. As well I've never seen the likes of the Clinton's, Obama's or Biden's as anything other than flawed beings and very critiqueable. I actually see them all as center right. I've never tried to turn politicians into fucking idols like so many conservatives have with the likes of Reagan and Trump. Even comedians such as Maher and Colbert I don't find particularly funny. So I really don't what the hell Doug is going on about. I'm actually with those who want universal health care, free college, a living wage and a green new deal that really addresses climate change and frankly for me the democratic party has been coming up short for a long time.......though they're not nearly as hell bent against any kind of progress like the republicans they're still something for me of a disappointment.

Still as disappointing as democrats may be they're not a bunch of qballs waiting around all day for qdrops. They can understand what a pandemic is. I mean for so many conservatives the idea of 400/500 thousand Covid dead hardly moved their needle. Wear a mask? Not me. What about my freedumbs? So far democrats haven't invaded the Capitol to overthrow a fairly played out election either. They're not perfect really but they're also not completely out of their minds.

>1 Doug1943: The rank and file of the Left, like the rank and file of the Right, are dependent on their prominent people to interpret reality for them. They deserve it ten-fold when they pay a personal price for doing so. There aren’t many such, but there are a few. God bless them!

That's a pretty big claim, Doug, that "the rank and file" (ie most people) have no thoughts of their own, no agency, but simply rely on the interpretation of "their prominent people". While it may be true of some (and particularly those who swallowed the conspiracy theories and other lies from Trump and his ilk), I doubt whether it represents the majority of any "rank and file", and particularly the left, which by its nature of being progressive, counter-establishment and rooted in the community tends to foster independent thought.

People who are willing to stand up for the truth, even when lies would benefit there own side, deserve our acclaim. They deserve it ten-fold when they pay a personal price for doing so. There aren’t many such, but there are a few. God bless them!

But it's good to hear that you offer deserved acclaim to those on the right wing who have stood up for the truth even when supporting Trump's lies might have benefited their own side and even when "they pay a personal price for doing so". As you say, "There aren’t many such, but there are a few. God bless them!"

#5--I have to say though I probably don't agree with them on much I did appreciate the 10 house republicans and the 7 Senate republicans who voted to impeach Trump. And those 17 have taken a lot of flack for the stand they have made and they must have known before voting to impeach that was going to be the case. When you know that by doing something you're putting everything on the line and because it's the right thing you do it anyway that takes courage and at least some integrity. And kudos particularly to Ms. Herrera-Beutler who not only did that but stood up pretty much to the last day even signalling that she was willing to be a witness for the prosecution. Also to Liz Cheney who went out of her way to articulate exactly why Trump was so dangerous to our democracy.

FWIW also I don't get off on disliking conservatives/republicans. Many of my own family fall into that description as it is and FWIW I don't even look at Trump as anything more than a dangerous demagogue using the Republican brand to advance his bank account and his ambitions for power. This isn't to excuse the demonization of entire ethnic groups, the attacks on women's and gay rights that were already there before Trump hijacked their party (a political party by the way that had allowed itself to become ripe for being hijacked)---their almost insatiable need to go to war to advance the multinational projects of our military industrial complex and there are lots of other reasons to not like them but really Trump has never really represented a coherent political agenda of any kind that does not look to demonize some smaller group of people to feed into the resentments of his base. He is a hollow man and if anyone in the republican party is a RINO he's the guy because he really represents nothing but his own narcissistic self interest.

When we talk about the brainwashed---the people who have allowed Trump to tell them anything and believe it's true......who wait with baited breath for the next qball to drop, who listen to or watch all day conservative media outlets like Fox, OANN or Newsmaxx or favored right wing trolls like Alex Jones, Sean Hannity or the recently departed Limbaugh---these disastrous demagogues hold their people in the palm of their respective hands and those who follow them believe whatever lies they're told. What wild conspiracy theorist on the left compares to Jones? There is no one and no one even trying.

other sane voices amidst a sea of madness:

Matt Taibbi : https://taibbi.substack.com/

John McWhorter: "It Bears Mentioning"
https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com

Edward Snowden : https://edwardsnowden.com/

and, much less consistently, but occasionally very good:

Sam Harris : http://www.samharris.org

And let's not forget Harper's Magazine. Liberal, but still in favor of free speech.
The editor has a good article in the latest Spectator (UK) here: John R. MacArthur, "The decline of American journalism"
From magazine issue: 20 February 2021 https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-decline-of-american-journalism

They sponsored a good statement defending free speech last year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Letter_on_Justice_and_Open_Debate

But what we're witnessing is the 'madness of crowds'. The voices of reason will be drowned out in the hysteria. Most people on the Left will go along with it, just as most people on the Right were happy to turn off all critical faculties when George W Bush plunged us into the Afghanistan and Iraqi tar-babies.

And ... we have to remember that if you are a Very Morally Pure Person, fighting for A Better World, then, really, all things are permitted to you.

The best example of this is the fellow who was the first head of the American Civil Liberties Union, who, when he founded it, noted that the point of civil liberties was to allow Communists to exercise them, to advance the class struggle ... with ACLU support for civil liberties for reactionaries being only a tactical issue, to look consistent.

And he noted that of course in those countries where the Left had triumphed, there would be no question of civil liberties, and the reactionaries would be off to the gulag. And this man was head of the American Civil Liberties Union! (He wised up later, by the way, although the ACLU is rapidly back-sliding.)

A quick reply to the thoughtful replies above:

(1) The idiots who stormed Congress deserve to be prosecuted, as do the AntiFa and BLM people who rioted and burned down police stations. I note that when the Wisconsin State Capitol building was occupied, Nancy Pelosi praised the occupiers. Spare me the self-righteous lectures about the sanctity of legislatures.

(2) The idiot whose rambling exercise in self-pity just before the storming, who did not call for storming Congress, but did not warn against it, is the best friend the Left has. I hope that in his forced retirement xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, and that it looks like it was the result of natural causes, maybe due to over-exertion with one of Bill Clinton's/Jeffrey Epstein's left-over adoslescent cuties. 'xxxx' represents self-censorship to prevent sensitive souls from getting this thread deleted.

(3) America is on the decline -- it's 'over-determined' as they used to say. Hopefully we can shake off the chains of empire in time to avoid a catastrophic clash with the rising world hegemon. If we can do that, we may be able to effect a peaceful separation, perhaps taking the form of some extreme form of federalism.

And like it or not, morally pure self-righteous people on the Left, who don't want their country to try to play World Dominator any more, are going to have to co operate with nasty old leather-hearted reactionaries like me, because we agree on something. Call it a United Front.

(4) I don't just honor those I agree with. I honor those who uphold the key ideas that underlie liberal democracy, like respect for truth, especially when that means swimming against the stream of hysterical 'public opinion' of their own side. That was the whole point! But if someone is determined to misinterpret an opponent's arguments, nothing can be done.

If you want to tell me that 'respect for truth' has not exactly been a key characteristic of the American Right for the last few decades, I would agree wholeheartedly, although the people who say this are usually totally ignorant of the voices on the Right -- found in over half a dozen excellent journals First Things, New Criterion, National Review, American Conservative, Commentary, Claremont Review of Books -- where respect for truth has been honored. But their readership numbers less than 1% of the people who are members of the Trump cult, or even the followers of Alex Jones.

(5) And in the interest of verbal precision: a genuine 'insurrection' begins with the seizure of the means of public information -- you either take control or shut them down; simultaneously, you arrest the leaders of the side who were in control of the government; you ensure the neutrality or ineffectiveness of most of the armed forces and police; you establish yourself as the new power, presenting what you have done as purely defensive, promising no great changes in the existing way of doing things that would negatively impact anyone.

This is how professionals do it.It requires careful planning and national co-ordination. When there's a real insurrection, you'll know it. As Marx said, "You do not play with insurrection." Real insurrections are not led by guys in a buffalo-horn headdress.

America is a million miles away from any such insurrection, and I hope it remains that way. The intelligent Left long ago learned that outright insurrection -- AntiFa-style, although their street violence is not genuine insurrection either -- is a last-ditch desperate gamble. Much better to bore from within. Turn the Marine Corps into a Social Justice Experimental Lab, destroy the education system from the inside -- the idea of a 'right answer' in mathematics is racist! -- and so on.

(6) As for the supposed virtue, or deplorableness, of ordinary people. We need not indulge in sentimental cant about the 'wisdom of the masses' and suchlike. People are what they are, shaped by their history and material circumstances.

I don't know whether the polls you read about from time to time, showing that the majority of American young people can't name the century the Civil War was fought in, and believe that we fought the Russians in WWII, are accurate. It's hard to believe. But I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

They've grown up in a country that dominated the world for the last 70 years, and didn't really need to know any history in order to feed from the cornucopia.

Times are changing. They'll learn some history if only because they're going to be in the middle of it .

>1 Doug1943:

I'd like to see what you have to say about the other side of the coin. Tell us why Republicans and rightists love Rush Limbaugh, Roger Stone, Alex Jones, Glen Beck, Michael Savage and a host of other toxic "conservatives" are people of dishonor who invent, spread, and weaponize lies and conspiracy theories in order to foment fear among the under-educated.

True, it's impossible to be "fair & balanced" in light of the fact that so-called conservatives overwhelm and liberals and progressives are absent from the ranks of fear-mongering, outright lying, conspiracists.

But try.

>8 Doug1943: Liberal, but still in favor of free speech.

Lol. I love how you say that as though it's some sort of paradox.

>8 Doug1943: (1) The idiots who stormed Congress deserve to be prosecuted, as do the AntiFa and BLM people who rioted and burned down police stations. I note that when the Wisconsin State Capitol building was occupied, Nancy Pelosi praised the occupiers. Spare me the self-righteous lectures about the sanctity of legislatures.

No difference between people who violently attacked a legislature forcing the legislators to flee to safety, and those that merely hung out in the public areas of a legislature, and didn't stop the legislators from doing their job, huh?

Real insurrections are not led by guys in a buffalo-horn headdress.

They're often led by the current leader who is about to be removed from power. In any case, it matters little to the dead whether it was a "real insurrection" or not.

I don't know whether the polls you read about from time to time, showing that the majority of American young people can't name the century the Civil War was fought in, and believe that we fought the Russians in WWII, are accurate. It's hard to believe. But I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

So it's not important for most Americans to know when the Civil War was, but it's of great concern if even a small minority of Americans believe that Cleopatra was Black.

I don't have any doubt that Trump and others on the podium that day inflamed that mob to attack the Capitol. Trump instead of marching with them as he claimed he would then goes back to the White House to watch it for hours and hours and not lift a finger. When confronted by Rep. McCarthy he claims it's Antifa which McCarthy vehemently dismisses.

Trump and Alex Jones (a notorious and long time racist conspiracy theorist known for violent rhetoric) on that same podium---company you keep. 7 republican Senators flipping at the impeachment trial. Not enough--no but not insignificant either. If it were a piece of legislation or a confirmation that would be an easy bipartisan win. 10 republican congresspeople also flipping with one willing to testify on the day of the impeachment vote.

.....and it's funny how in #8--1) conservatives like Doug and also so many Republican elected are more than willing to throw their own under the bus as long as their shitbird leader gets to walk away from inciting the same to commit the acts that they did. Let the water run downhill. Prosecute the asshole with the antlers and the jerk sitting in Pelosi's chair but leave poor picked upon Donald alone. Those are his people and he takes no responsibility for them whatsoever. They're running around saying Donald invited us--they're believing that this is what Donald and other podium speakers wanted they charged at Capitol Police and forced their way into the building. There is no doubt who stood to benefit if they had succeeded with their overthrow and perhaps killed Pence and Pelosi.