Discussion - Episode 401/402: "Razor" (SPOILERS)

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Discussion - Episode 401/402: "Razor" (SPOILERS)

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1fannyprice
abr. 2, 2008, 7:24pm

A place to discuss Episode 401/402: "Razor", which premiered in the US and Canada on 24 November and the UK on 18 December, according to BattlestarWiki. Spoilers are to be expected.

2fyrefly98
abr. 2, 2008, 8:16pm

In the extended edition DVD, there's a scene where the Hybrid makes a much longer (and very interesting) speech:

"Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of that revelation, bringing true clarity. And amidst confusion, he will find her... Enemies brought together by the apostle, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, once impenetrable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all, the seven, now six self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching, the agony of the one splintering into many. And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning."

Any thoughts?

3avaland
abr. 2, 2008, 8:33pm

Some speculation here (I used to know the whole translation of American Pie, you know:-)

The apostle will be Baltar. He is supposed to become a religious figure and indeed we have been set up with this in the last few episodes (remember the young woman wanting him to bless her son's picture. She was at the trial, and she & her friends grabbed Baltar after the trial...).

Enemies. That's obvious. Cylons and humans.

"And the fifth" - this passage very deliberately obscure.

"the seven" (the first seven cylon models), "now six" (they turned #3 off)

"one splintering into many" - central command of the Cylons will be destroyed or disappear so that they all will become individuals?

"join in the promised land" = Earth
"angel" - Starbuck?

4avaland
abr. 2, 2008, 8:36pm

btw, I thought Razor ok entertainment but it didn't put forward the story. There was some nice depth given to Admiral Cain (she played such a great character as Ensign Ro Laren on STNG), and I, like most viewers, probably harbored a moment of sympathy for her. It was just a moment, though. Another great 'bad guy".

5fyrefly98
abr. 2, 2008, 8:43pm

The point I'm stuck on is "And amidst confusion, he will find her"

Could be Baltar finding Hera amidst the confusion of the exodus...

Could be Lee finding Kara amidst "all this confusion" of the end of S3...

Heck, since it's coming from a Hybrid, could very well be both.

And I think the bit about the fifth supports my theory about who the fifth is... but of course it's worded in such a way that it could be used to support just about anything.

6avaland
Editat: abr. 2, 2008, 9:25pm

yeah, I was thinking it was the Lee finding Kara thing...

fifth in the shadows could indicate a background or second tier character. How about Admiral Cain:-)

7NeedMoreShelves
abr. 2, 2008, 10:28pm

Or could the apostle be Leoban, or the enemies joined as one be Leoban and Kara?

The one splintering into many could be referring to their one true God - maybe in relation to the many gods the humans worship?

I have 3 ideas about who the 5th could be, all of which would be supported by that dang obscure phrase.

I love all this speculation...

8avaland
abr. 3, 2008, 7:27am

>7 NeedMoreShelves: ooooo, that's an intriguing idea about one god into many...

9fikustree
abr. 3, 2008, 10:11am

I replayed this passage too. I thought Starbuck was the angel too, but I have been rewatching the whole series and 6 in Baltar's mind repeatedly calls herself an angel of God. The whole passage makes sense as Starbuck being the final cylon too, but I don't think that is what happens.

10fyrefly98
abr. 3, 2008, 10:18am

I like the idea that ChipSix, ChipBaltar, and ChipLeoben (from "Maelstrom") are all angels, and that God's sending them to help Cylon and human alike.

11fikustree
abr. 3, 2008, 10:27am

I feel like the Chips have to come into play because they have to be important somehow.

12littlegeek
abr. 3, 2008, 11:36am

The chips could be the "beings of light" from the original series. They have done quite a bit of resurrecting of ideas from the orginal series.

I've also wondered if they're going to have someone who mirrors the "imperious leader" from TOS. For a while, I thought it was Head!Six, but now it doesn't seem that way.

13avaland
abr. 3, 2008, 12:13pm

chips? please define.

fikustree, you are right! Six does refer to herself as an angel and the six currently in jail is there to protect Hera, something angels are known to do (think Clarence in "It's a Wonderful Life":-)

Wait, why isn't Chief and Cally's offspring as important as Hera is? Well, it's not the first but its another bit of interbreeding.

And what have they done with Kara's ovary? Cloned her?

14littlegeek
abr. 3, 2008, 12:13pm

I was disappointed that there weren't any other cylons on Razor besides 6. Wouldn't it have been cool to see some random crew member just walking by that looked like Tori or something?

15littlegeek
abr. 3, 2008, 12:14pm

chips=people inside someone's head, like Head!Six in Baltar's or Head!Leoben in Kara's or Head!Baltar in Six's.

16avaland
abr. 3, 2008, 2:28pm

>15 littlegeek: thanks.

>14 littlegeek: agree. why didn't they think of that.

17fannyprice
abr. 3, 2008, 6:40pm

>13 avaland:, avaland - Wait, why isn't Chief and Cally's offspring as important as Hera is? Well, it's not the first but its another bit of interbreeding.

Maybe because the other Cylons don't know that Tyrol is a Cylon and therefore don't know that Cally's baby is a hybrid? Just a guess. The Seven seem totally disconnected from the Five.