Suntup Editions Books (2)

Continued from Suntup Editions Books, which passed the 1000 post mark a while ago.

I think people like having one thread for all things Suntup, so see no reason to start a new thread.

>2 astropi: Not sure which I prefer, but just want to note the two threads are “linked.” You’ll also see that notice from Librarything about it being a continuation with a link to the first part, or vice versa.

>2 astropi: This isn't meant to replace the original thread, but to continue it. I've noticed it being done on other threads here when they reach a certain length. My apology if it was inappropriate in this case, perhaps it can be reverted if folks prefer.

I basically never read the old thread because it takes so long to load 1,000+ posts and images every time. Just me though!

It's pretty common in forums to start a "continuation" thread after an original thread reaches an obnoxiously long number of posts, especially since as >5 grifgon: mentioned there are practical considerations involved.

Subpress has Collector, and Butcher Boy at discounted prices.

I think it's a great idea to start a new continued thread.

>7 Undergroundman: First time I've seen Subpress sell Suntup books at a discount. The times they are a changing.

>2 astropi: I don't think "people" liked having one thread. A few folks liked it, others didn't, myself included. I like having threads be focused, it's much easier to keep track of and also helps new users and with google search. Having one thread per book is the ideal format IMO.

>10 filox: The issue is there frankly isn’t that much to talk about when it comes to these books. Most releases are pretty unremarkable. The previous thread was that long because many (most?) of the 1000 posts were about the publisher, the rights system, the fan base, or better alternatives.

It’s not similar to Folio Society Limited Editions, which each have their own thread because there is often so much discussion to be had.

I appreciate a new thread that continues the old one, which has gotten a bit long, but don't need one for each book. As has been mentioned, we rarely discuss the single titles in a lot of detail, and at first we don't know which titles there might be with the guessing game and all. So this works very well for me. Thank you for creating the thread.

>12 SF-72: Why not one for each new release? There's usually enough responses/reactions to each new title to justify its own thread and they are only releasing one title a month so it won't be overwhelming.

Fine press has individual threads for individual releases all the time. I don't see why Suntup titles would be different.

>13 rsmac: I think the difference is that Suntup titles are so frequent and the discussion on each one relatively short lived. Not quite like presses with 1-3 major releases a year that we spend months discussing and following all the updates on.

>14 NathanOv: Even so, LT in general isn't exactly a heavy traffic site where you have to swim through hundreds of posts. Fine Press Forum might only have a few dozen replies to any of the threads in an entire day and usually less than a handful of new topic threads. An extra thread a month for the one title Suntup releases each month is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

Edit - It looks like 175 Fine Press Forum posts for the entire week. Not really that much at all.

>15 rsmac: I was really just offering up a potential explanation for why that's what the majority seem to prefer. As it stands, anyone can make a new thread for each title, and people do occasionally, they just never seem to get much traction.

>13 rsmac:

Because of what I already wrote about not even knowing the titles at first, and what it says in >14 NathanOv:. But that's my opinion and taste, nobody stops people starting new threads in addition to this one.

I’m excited to hear feedback on Blackwater. Mine shipped last week but will take a while to reach Canada.

>18 RRCBS: I received my AE of Blackwater earlier this week. Haven't pulled off the shrinkwrap yet, that's for this weekend, but it looks really nice externally. Arrived in great shape, too. It's sitting next to the Suntup Imagica, same height but not quite as thick.

I think it's interesting that the prior 1000+ Suntup thread started with a post about the Exorcist. This was arguably peak Suntup, as the Exorcist was the only book to sell out the numbered state completely (nothing available for public preorder).

Fast forward to today, and the Exorcist is selling for below retail value (as are perhaps 90% of Suntup books).

I am by no means a Suntup detractor as I buy many/most of the AE’s, but I’d be curious to know opinions on why so many Suntup books sell below retail and yet I virtually never see the same with Centipede. Is this simply due to the fact that there are so many more copies of Suntup books? Personally, I prefer Centipede’s productions but then, I’ve never owned a numbered Suntup or even seen one in person. Just curious to hear others thoughts on the difference in aftermarket pricing between the two publishers.

>21 HowardEriksonWolfe: For myself, Centipede books generally just seem harder to acquire. So far half of their offerings I've been interested in have sold out before I could get to the site to order them. I haven't experienced this yet on Suntup. So the difference may be due in some part to a simple matter of supply and demand.

>21 HowardEriksonWolfe: Like you've said, scarcity is a big factor. Suntup's scarcity is largely artificial, as it can be a challenge to get numbered rights, but most people who do are not actually interested in all 12 books Suntup publishes in a given year, so will order and then resell for their chance at buying what comes next.

With Centipede, far fewer people are buying via subscription and most are participating in the competitive preorders because they really want the books. Dune though is an entirely different situation where it's very much the rights driving value, and you can see the massive price discrepancy between the copies with / without.

>23 NathanOv: I’m not sure that rights play a significant role at this point. Suntup numbered rights could not be easier to obtain. Lettered rights typically go to lottery but in general the lettered states have sold for larger discounts from retail than numbered states.

As for Centipede the run up in secondary prices is recent and may not last long term. A lot of recent demand was pandemic driven and the combination of economic conditions and everything opening up will likely result in less demand across the board.

I hope you are correct and the prices come down. There are still many older CP releases I would love to acquire but can’t stomach the prices I see them listed at for sale.

>20 punkzip: I had my eye on a Suntup Exorcist AE- do you happen to know what the original retail was? Or I guess more specifically what is a good price in USD on this or where are you seeing it at below retail?

>21 HowardEriksonWolfe: I love CP, but they don't really compare to Suntup numbereds overall. Even a book like Nova is close to a Suntup AE in terms of design. The only Suntups I see for the most part going below retail are the numbered, and lettereds. The CP books tend to be less commercial, and have had little to no limiteds releases.

>26 rsmac: The Exorcist AE had a $150 retail price.

>28 AMindForeverVoyaging: Ah, ok - cheapest I have seen on Abe was closer to $200. I did miss out on an ebay one that went for closer to $150 but none so far below that.

>24 punkzip: "Suntup numbered rights could not be easier to obtain" True of Slaughterhouse 5, but that one's not on the secondary market yet. I'm referring to why past titles might of depreciated, when often only a handful of numbered copies were available via lottery only for many editions.

>26 rsmac: Exorcist was recently offered at 135 on the FB page. Not sure if it sold yet. I didn’t say that the books were at 90% of retail - many have dropped much more than that - rather that 90% of the books were below retail.

>31 punkzip: Yeah, noticed I misread that and edited, thanks.

$135 is pretty good - I'll have to keep my eye out for closer to the $150 and resist the urge to settle for the $200 range.

>27 Undergroundman: The CP books tend to be less commercial, and have had little to no limiteds releases.
Say what? ALL Centipede Books are limited. This has been true since their first book back in 2001. I'm also not sure what you mean by "less commercial"? CP publishes more books per year than Suntup. In 2021 CP released 24 books that I know of. Signed & numbered copies are typically a few hundred, although there are then a good chunk of unsigned copies sold for a slight discount. CP has never had anything like an "artist's edition" but in many ways the two are similar. I personally think that overall Suntup's production values are substantially higher than CP.

>33 astropi: What are you talking about? How many Samuel Delany, Clark Ashton Smith, and James Herbert limited books are around besides CP's releases?

>33 astropi: "Suntup's production values are substantially higher"

That's a tought one, because Suntup does have higher states that go way above and beyond Centipede's publications in terms of materials and printing, but I definitely see a lot more "love of the book" in Centipede's approach.

There seems to be very little talk on this forum of the Suntup books themselves but a lot of talk about the Suntup business model, prices, availability, and such, and one thread has made sense in that context.

>35 NathanOv: I think I see what you mean, but I would phrase it more as love of the word than love of the book. Many of the Centipede catalog choices are clearly a labor of love in that Jerad wants to provide a durable and attractive edition of often obscure works (though there are some popular choices or genre classics in the mix, such as Dune, Elric, and Nova), but they are not, generally speaking, luxury editions, in the sense of craft.

In terms of book arts, most Centipede books are barely entry level. No artisans (apart from illustrators) are identified, paper is decent archival grade but anonymous production (generally specified only as alkaline). Dune specified the paper (Mohawk Superfine), and even that is only on the web site (my unsigned copy stated only hc.: alk. paper on the rear info page). I am sure there are a few others (the multi-thousand dollar deluxe Hill House specified mould-made Stonehenge), but this is exceptional. Bindings tend to be simple, most of the time full cloth, with the occasional fancier offering, generally quarter leather. Just about everything is mass-produced (again, there are some exceptions, but not the bulk of production).

I don't mean this to denigrate Centipede in the least. I think Jerad prefers to operate in this middle range. I personally appreciate the simplicity of the offerings, generally only a single state with a small number of unnumbered copies for editions that are numbered. I can only recall one release off hand that had substantive differences between the states (Dune), and even those differences were not that large (relative to the differences between a Suntup AE and a Suntup numbered, never mind lettered and above).

Centipede does seem to be venturing a bit more into fancier craft editions, such as the very low limitation Children of the Kingdom, and a few upcoming releases, but a fancier approach still seems like it will remain an exception going forward.

Price is everywhere and always a function of supply and demand when free exchange is possible, but in this case my sense is the demand is simply due to a mismatch between the number brand/genre fans and the number of copies produced, rather than connoisseurs knowledgeable about and appreciative of different methods of production. Lots of brand completionists or semi-completionists.

Suntup's production values are on average higher, but honestly I wish there were a few more reliable publishers that you could count on to get the basics right: acid free paper, stitched bindings, delivery on time, replace defective products, basically competent typography, etc. There really aren't that many. Folio Society, Centipede, Everyman's Library. Suntup, though you generally pay for a lot more than just the basics. That's about it! Jerad is on the side of the (dark) angels.

>33 astropi: I believe they mean the literature itself, not the books, per se. Some of CP's publications are collections that are out of print, hard to find, or maybe never before put together in a single volume. E.g. Medusa, and the MOTWT series. These books are often lesser-known or at least not as big name writers ("less commercial") and have never been published before in limited editions.

>38 What_What: Thank you, I think they just worded their post poorly. That said...

>34 Undergroundman: How many Samuel Delany, Clark Ashton Smith, and James Herbert limited books are around besides CP's releases?
A ton. Just do a little bit of research and you'll find that all of those authors have numerous limited editions produced. Especially Clark Ashton Smith. Pegana Press has over the years produced a good amount of his work, all in limited and beautiful letterpress editions
https://peganapress.com/clark-ashton-smith

>37 abysswalker: Really great post. One thing I've noticed is that many fine/private/small press collectors seem to take insult at the implication that their favorites are not The Best™ in every way. Knowing that a press provides one thing (for example, new life to obscure genre literature) but not another (for example, craft printing) is essential to appreciating these books. If we don't value Centipede's commitment to one thing or, say, Tallone's commitment to another, then their commitments go unrewarded and ultimately we'll be left with just bleh. This forum is weird because it invites comparisons of presses which are really apples and oranges. Bizarro to see on the screen right now these five topics side by side:

Kelmscott Chaucer
Fleece Press
Curious King Books
Suntup Press
Tara Books

It'd be like another forum with the topics:

'59 Bentley
Which is the best Prius?
Lime Scooters
Advice on repainting my Model-T
Space-X

Also, your comments reminded me of one of my favorite Did-You-Knows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Permanent_Paper_Law

>39 astropi: Right. So where are the abundance of SRD, and Herbert books? I could mention way more authors CP has published. How about Charles Platt? Where are all his limiteds?

>41 Undergroundman: I don't know about Herbert, but Delany's been getting special and / or limited editions from major publishers for quite a while, and it seems that often makes it harder for smaller presses to jump in.

>37 abysswalker:>40 Exactly. I'm not buying CP to have the absolute finest production. I'm buying because in many cases Jerad is selling a book I haven't read and I almost always really enjoy his selections. The only two I can think of that I didn't finish were The Gas and The Architect of Sleep.

>42 NathanOv: SRD is very limited. Point is that Jerad publishes books that most publishers wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. Don't see how Suntup, and CP compare in the regard at all.

>40 grifgon: "Bizarro to see on the screen right now these five topics side by side:"

This might be my favorite LT analogy I've read! Hilarious yet pointed.

>44 Undergroundman: Jerad publishes books that most publishers wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole
That's simply not true. For starters, Jerad still publishes many "popular" authors in the sci-fi/horror/weird-tale genre which includes big names such as Orson Scott Card (you can find numerous signed/limited copies of his works from numerous publishers such as Easton Press), Philip K Dick, Michael Moorcock, etc. all of which numerous publishers produce limited editions, including recent limited editions by Folio Society.

Other lesser-known authors also have had plenty of limited editions published. For example - Robert Sheckley - not a name on most people's lips, but he's published much, and has had some wonderful limited editions produced. That said, I think what Jerad does - make very affordable compendiums is wonderful. However, that doesn't change the fact that you can find plenty of limited editions of nearly every single book produced by CP. I don't think this takes away from CP, but at the same time, CP is not the end-all to publishing. For the record, I love CP and the work Jerad does. Also for the record, I think it's perfectly legit to compare CP and Suntup since there's lots of overlap, and of course numerous differences. At the end of the day, as someone that regularly purchases both CP and Suntup, there's no question that Suntup is in general higher quality which comes at a substantially higher price.

>46 astropi: Would you be able to tell much of a difference between CP, and Grant in terms of book titles? No. Those two publishers are actually very similar unlike Suntup. Believe what you want though.

>47 Undergroundman: Believe what you want though.
I started collecting from CP when they first published, same with Suntup. I don't know nor is it my business how old you are, but I've been collecting for decades so yes, I can easily tell the difference between a CP and Grant book title. Also, we're not going to see eye-to-eye and that's fine. I've stated what I wanted and you are entitled to your own opinion as am I and others.

Received Blackwater, have yet to read, but very happy with the aesthetics. The slipcase is very sturdy, illustrations are beautiful and the binding feels strong for a thick book.

>49 RRCBS: I'm planning to pick up the AE of that title, as well. Glad to hear you're pleased with it and feel that it has sturdy construction.

Hannibal numbered is shipping, and the slipcase is a much better design IMO. Kinda wish all of them were like that now. The only thing I ain't a fan of is the color of the cloth used on the book. Definitely missing the sheen from the previous books. Overall very happy with the book.

S.E. Hinton's The Outsiders is up now for pre-order of the AE edition.

https://suntup.press/the-outsiders/

Not really my cuppa, and the artwork doesn't do it for me, but hopefully a successful title for them. I do like the design of the Lettered Edition.

I really don't like illustrations where it's basically a well executed portrait of a real person posing as one of the characters. It feels like an ad for a community theater production starring a bunch of local actors I don't know.

>52 Shadekeep: The Numbered is ugly as sin. Wasn't going to buy to begin with, but if I was... I'd be disappointed in the numbered.

>54 Undergroundman:

The Numbered is fine compared to the lettered...wow that's bad.

How funny with the differences in opinion. I actually like both productions.

I think the faded photo look works for these illustrations. I also liked the realistic illustrations in Suntup's 1984, so maybe it's my thing.

I've got no connection to the work though, was hoping it would be an interesting version of Frankenstein given the hint. Recommended it to a friend who likes the book.

>53 rsmac: Ha ha, good parallel! Part of what I dislike about this "staged photo" approach to illustration is that a lot of the final result is down to the ability of the models to convey the emotional and symbolic weight of the image. Unfortunately this particular lot is not selling the vibe for me.

No interest in this title, but here are some of my thoughts :

- The Numbered is a bit mundane. It’s not the worst design out there, but I find it very boring.

- I really like the look of the Lettered edition though.

- Once again, I’m surprised that Suntup use the same paper for all three editions. What baffles me even more is that people pay thousands of dollars for the lettered edition despite this. Offset printing on Cougar or Mohawk Via paper shouldn’t be in lettered editions. But they sell, so Suntup knows better.

- Not a fan of the illustrations, but that’s highly subjective (just like the rest of my post I guess).

All in all, I rarely throw my wallet at Suntup anymore, compared to its early/middle days. But that’s suits me just as well, this hobby can be quite expensive.

>57 A.Godhelm: The hint also stated that it was signed by the author. That’d be a sight to behold…a new Frankenstein signed by Shelley lol

Well this is the first Suntup book I've had rights to since I decided to give Slaughterhouse 5 a try when it made it to general preorder. I can't say I'm terribly tempted, but if anybody's worried about getting a copy and wants to lock one in at cost let me know.

>59 Nerevarine: Haha I must have missed that part.

>59 Nerevarine: Them all being printed on the same paper baffles me as well. But hey, if he can sell them all without a second thought why not.

Not surprised there are like 110 numbered editions left. Never judge a book by it's cover of course, but it has to be one of the most boring looking books I have seen.

>63 Schlermie: I think that 110 numbered books left is the new Suntup record for books left during the preorder period. Some of it may be the title but I suspect that it's primarily a combination of the economy along the recent decline in the Suntup secondary market - why buy this book from Suntup when it will almost certainly be available for a substantial discount on the secondary market, assuming one actually wants the title to begin with (I don't)?

>63 Schlermie: Remove the people that ONLY bought it to keep the future rights, and it's even more abysmal. Kind of surprised since it's such a commercial success. I do think the design is partly to blame. Way too plain looking for $600 after taxes, and shipping.

Guess I'm in the minority here, because I think it's a beautiful edition AND it's signed by the author :)

Artwork looks great - not printed letterpress which is a bummer, BUT what makes up for that is that it is signed by the author which makes it special. In fact, this is the only fine edition of The Outsiders that I know of, so that makes it extra-special in my book. Also, at least for me, after taxes&shipping the numbered was $500 not $600.

>66 astropi: The California taxes are brutal, and I have no idea why Suntup charges $25 in shipping when it's only going from Irvine to Los Angeles. Scam. Even Subpress charges less, and they ship from Michigan.

I hesitate to even ask- this a serious question not an attempt to troll. If Folio Society produced a version of Outsiders equal to the Suntup Editions numbered version what would it cost? I understand inflation is a consideration but this seems extremely expensive for what you get.

For context, I bought many Suntup Editions numbered books over the first couple of years they were produced and found that the price/quality ratio went in the wrong direction and the titles weren't as interesting to me. I guess I'm saying I'm definitely not a hater and enjoy a lot of what he's produced.

>68 SDB2012: "If Folio Society produced a version of Outsiders equal to the Suntup Editions numbered version what would it cost?"

Build specs seem comparable to the FS Hill House LE, with maybe a slight paper advantage to Outsiders numbered. So probably the cost would be about the same as Hill House, assuming rights costs are comparable.

Edit: list price for Hill House LE was 250 GBP, which currently = $300 USD (wow, I hadn't noticed the pound had sunk that low against the dollar).

>69 abysswalker: Just to state it isn’t weakness in the British pound but strength in the US Dollar. The pound has gained 10% on the Yen in the past year, and fractionally on the Euro.

>69 abysswalker: Thanks. Interesting comparison. The FS HOHH has twice as many pages of art, a more complex case, and an additional print. The Suntup Editions Outsiders has a bit of leather in the binding. I'd think FS priced HOHH with a fair unit profit built in as it was a low-risk title for them.

I'm sure that shipping pages back and forth to printers, binders, and artists is incredibly expensive these days. The paper used in the Outsiders seems like a low-cost option at 0.79 dollars per 23x35 page. I don't really understand how that translates into price per page in a book as that doesn't include shipping and printing charges but the paper alone looks like only 2-3 cents per page if that cost holds true for the size of sheets used for offset printing. Even if FS saved money on the paper, it couldn't have been much. Am I missing something obvious? I'd love to understand the economics better.

>69 abysswalker: >70 DMulvee: “So probably the cost would be about the same as Hill House, assuming rights costs are comparable.”

It’s exactly that: an assumption. Who knows how the rights (and author signature) factor into the cost in this case?

>72 const-char-star: Are rights to print the book a material cost factor? I'm asking because I have no idea.

>71 SDB2012: "I'd love to understand the economics better."

I've been involved in several product and service businesses over the past 30 or so years, most of which have had a premium or luxury bent to them. There's a lot about pricing for products like this that are, essentially, in a "black box" and are unknowable unless you're inside the business producing them. For example, there's the cost of licensing the title itself which can vary quite a bit (often, there's a flat upfront fee and then a percentage paid on each unit sold); there's the cost of commissioning the artwork (again, highly variable); and the cost of unusual "specialty" features (e.g. I don't know how much extra that bradel binding costs over a standard binding, maybe a lot), and let's not forget that there are the significant "hidden" costs of negotiating contracts, concept and design work, text layout, prototyping, submitting designs and prototypes for licensor approval, change orders, etc., etc.

Also, you're essentially assuming that the publisher is pricing things on a "cost-plus" model (overall cost + a percentage, which represents a desired gross profit on the project). But the value of a product can often be perceived to be significantly higher than the literal cost (plus a modest markup) of the sum of its parts. It may be that some small publishers follow a cost-plus model, but frankly, that's a foolish way to price scarce luxury items. Profitability can vary widely from product line to product line and significantly, even among different entries in the same line. And within certain bounds, many luxury brands, or brands that offer luxury items at an upper tier, will price things with some mixture in mind of cost, what they think the market will bear, how their competition is pricing similar products, and what they think their loyal customer base will accept.

So, it's a bit complicated. :)

>74 whytewolf1: I would say one major difference is that for Suntup, that single edition needs to absorb almost all of the business overhead for the time it’s in production, while a Folio LE absolutely does not.

There’s a very different economy of scale between the two.

>75 NathanOv: That is an excellent point. The overall cost of an FS book release, especially upfront fixed costs, can be amortized over a fairly sizable SE printing (at least in terms of LE releases like Hill House) and perhaps even over anticipated multiple printings of especially popular titles. And, as you mention, there are economies of scale to consider not only in terms of larger print runs (which will reduce per unit printing costs) but also concerning the total amount of business FS does with particular vendors, which can often affect vendor pricing. I don't know what FS pays for Abbey Wove paper, for instance, but I'd guess they get a pretty attractive rate. :D

Edit: I see now that you were also referring to the larger number of releases that Folio has over the course of a year, as well, and that their business should, thus, be able to absorb certain fixed costs outside of direct production more easily, as they would be spread out over a larger number of releases, and yes, I agree.

>76 whytewolf1: Thanks for the context. You bring up a good point about cost+ pricing and other methods. I think that's where a lot of us have questioned the value though when we see other producers putting out a lot more for the money. In the medium to long term I think value will overcome short term speculative fluctuations. We've seen that in a lot of collectible or luxury markets during the pandemic. Some of the bubbles will burst, others won't.

>77 SDB2012: You're welcome, and keep in mind that although some fairly objective comparisons can be made between certain editions, quality like beauty is often in the eye of the beholder. Many folks on this forum might happily pay $300 for a book with pretty no-frills bindings, but that was beautifully printed letterpress on very fine paper. Whereas many Suntup collectors might seriously balk at purchasing the same book, as many are not all that attuned to finer-quality papers and may be indifferent about letterpress vs. offset printing, but value well-designed and striking binding materials and a fancy "enclosure" (as Suntup generically refers to the various styles of cases they produce ) to go with the book.

>67 Undergroundman: Shipping can be tricky when you send something of high value which means >$400.
With UPS, I've sent things across the country and they can be cheaper than sending packages in your own state! There are all kinds of weird metrics UPS uses to charge shipping. With USPS it tends to be cheaper to ship a book, but insurance adds up. I believe $500 insurance with USPS is another $8.15. Ultimately, I think $25 is reasonable.

With the FS, I noticed that they charge their overseas customers more than retail. For instance, their new LE, "The Tale of Peter Rabbit" lists for £325.00. However, it will cost USA customers $495 and after taxes and shipping it is over $600.

>67 Undergroundman: Shipping can vary wildly publisher to publisher for a variety of reasons, but a big factor is whether the publisher is charging for "handling" or not. Shipping takes a long time. Whether that time is volunteered or paid for makes a big difference. I imagine Suntup is charging something close to the true cost of shipping for which, aside from the postage itself, it makes absolutely no difference where the package is headed.

>79 astropi: Spot on: UPS costs depend on a variety of metrics (residential / business, rural / urban, even climate) whereas USPS is much simpler (weight or distance and weight). Anybody who complains about the USPS should remember that they are charged with providing low cost delivery to EVERY American – from an apartment dweller in Manhattan to a rancher in Eastern Oregon to a service member on Okinawa. That they manage to do it all is pretty remarkable.

Roger Grech (the bookbinder) just shared a few photos showcasing the binding process of the numbered Slaughterhouse 5 on his instagram. Looks amazing!

>81 Praveenna_Nagaratnam: I wish some of these guys would understand many of us don't want anything to do with facebook/instagram.

>82 Undergroundman: Agreed!
Please publishers, just send informative emails to your subscribers.

>82 Undergroundman: This isn't from the publisher. It is just behind the scenes photos shared by the book binder on his instagram. I saw it because I love his work and follow him. Suntup does occasionally post videos on their own website, and they actually regularly update their own website with status updates on each book they are working on.

>83 wcarter: They do have the official mock ups on their website and did send it via email when it was announced. I guess if you do want these extra tit bits which are always fun to see (but not compulsory to be shared by the publisher) then social media it is :) I follow many binders, small press publishers, printers etc because of this. Love seeing their work, and it always helps me choose when I have books needing a rebind or a solander box made etc. You can't fault people for showcasing their work on social media. It is the easiest way to reach millions of audience.
Anyway, there you go:

https://www.instagram.com/p/ChKlc2foYTh/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

>85 Praveenna_Nagaratnam: Very cool to see the process. Wonder why they don't show more of this on the homepage as it serves to illustrate how much craftsmanship goes into the fine editions.

>82 Undergroundman: Paul just shared the pictures via email. Maybe he's lurking here?

>86 A.Godhelm: They did actually just share via email. That should keep everyone happy :)

>87 donaldmcobb: .. course he is. I would, who wouldn't. Hi Paul ! Haha.

Therefore it could be an idea to discuss a wishlist, and / or discuss books suited for Suntup in general. Maybe not in this thread or this group. But who knows, who sets the rules ? I am not to fan of social media facebook. To messy. It sometimes feels like I'm drowning or being tortured. People are different.

Great to see and looking even nicer now closer to completion.

If You See Her by Ania Ahlborn is up on the site now, with ordering open for the Classic Edition. I've not read any of her work, but this one sound promising. I prefer understated horror to overwrought.

https://suntup.press/if-you-see-her/

>91 Shadekeep: the numbered state has a number of design decisions that depart from the standard Suntup approach, and in general I find the result, as least from the mock-ups, to be attractive. Custom walnut and maple wood box, dust jacket without art, half-cloth binding, illustrated paper over the boards (and the cover illustration is good).

I'm not familiar with any of Ahlborn's work, but this looks like a haunted house story from the cover?

All states printed offset, but still a striking edition. I am not sure it is worth 395 USD to me, but this is the first Suntup that has tempted me, based on the numbered design, since Imajica.

>92 abysswalker: I quite like the boxed edition as well, very pleasing. And yes, it sounds like a psychological ghost story, perhaps akin to Hill House.

The 3 books of hers that I've read were fun & fast vacation reads. It'll be interesting to see how the "classic" edition does here, the 1000 book limitation surprised me for a relatively unknown author & book.

Won't be seeing her for sure. Easy pass.

>94 stumguy: "the 1000 book limitation surprised me for a relatively unknown author & book."

I've yet to read any of her works, but Ania Ahlborn is not a relatively unkown author, at least not to genre readers and particularly ones who follow Suntup. She has a history with the press and her previous editions sold out 250 and 500 numbered states, so offering her work in what's essentially an Artist's Edition makes sense.

Why change the name from Artist Edition to Classic Edition? Is that for all of the least expensive books now, or just this one?

“When an Artist edition is signed ,by the author, it is known as a Classic edition.”

>96 NathanOv: I agree the artist edition makes perfect sense, what I meant was that I would have expected a 750 limitation instead of 1000.

Apparently more "Classic editions" are on the way. That's cool. Especially since they come with cases. The numbereds are going to have to be so much better now if you are getting signatures, and cases with the lowest edition.

>98 Dr.Fiddy: Thanks, I missed it.

I also noticed that the artist is so edgy she couldn't provide a properly-lit, un-blurred photo for her profile on the book's listing page. I am definitely impressed now.

I think it's a beautifully designed book - numbered edition below -



I will likely order it, although I'm not a big fan of "Brother", which is the only Ania Ahlborn book I've read (also a Suntup edition). I thought Brother was well written, and Ahlborn has talent, but I found the book rather cliche and uninspired. I would not recommend it personally. That said, I'm willing to give Ahlborn another chance, especially when Suntup is producing such a beautiful edition :)

Not particularly interested in the novel itself but the Stepford Wives AE is definitely a good value - letterpress on Mohawk Superfine at $155.

The three designs fit the topic really well. Which makes it totally awful for me - all that pink. lol It really suits it, though.

Stepford is pretty tempting, and I do like the art style on this one. They really captured the fashion sense of the time.

EDIT: And with Peter Straub having recently passed, the editions signed by him are likely to be popular.

Might buy this AE. Definitely the grooviest Suntup AE ever. LOL

I went ahead and ordered the AE. It will join an eclectic Suntup AE collection of Imajica, Animal Farm, and Blackwater.

EDIT: Wow, and 50 copies sold in the time it took me to order. I guess the email is doing the job.

I like the Stepford Wives story and the art, but I’m 77 and don’t need to be ordering things that won’t be delivered for another year!

Suntup Editions offers a letterpress book with 162 pages for $155 while Folio Society offers the offset Henry James LE with 168 pages for over $700. I know the FS binding cost a few more bucks but that is an outrageous difference. I've considered the value of Suntup Editions to have declined over the last couple of years but this looks like a really solid value.

>109 SDB2012: My take is that Suntup realizes that their days of hype driven sales are over and they have to offer good values to sell 1000 AE and 350 numbered books given their previous optimistic limitations. Stepford is $40 cheaper than Animal Farm, and on better paper no less. I think the numbered may be the least expensive letterpress numbered (at least recently). Not sure why the lettereds continue to sell out given that most lose a LOT of value when resold…

>110 punkzip: If they make offering letterpress AEs at this price point a permanent thing they could carve out a nice little niche. That's a good value. I suppose it would somewhat constrain their selections, though, since it would only be feasible for novellas.

>108 jroger1: one more reason to live another year.

>109 SDB2012: Great point! I think the FS letterpress Sappho was about $155 or so, granted that was some three years ago and much can and obviously has changed.

>110 punkzip: I agree, no more FOMO :)
As for the lettered, well, I imagine if you can afford those you really don't care whether they appreciate or depreciate over time!

>111 rsmac: A wonderful idea! Make it so Suntup!

Overall, as someone that has purchased Suntup books since the days of Hill House, I have to say in my mind the value has only gotten better. Letterpress NOVELS -- NOT just some poetry or another play -- for under $200...amazing! We need to keep supporting this.

Does anyone have experience with Suntup's 'Global Consolidated Discounted Rate' shipping or know which delivery company they use? It's coming up as $39 (to the UK), which seems good value, especially in the current climate. Delivery time is stated as 30-60 days but I'd be fine with the wait - what's another 60 days after waiting a year? :)

The next option up is Fedex but that's about $70.

>112 fp13:
I see there are still 260 copies remaining, not much change from late yesterday, so if some are still available close to the delivery date next fall, perhaps I’ll order one then (but only if I’m still alive).

I’m trying to make the point that I’m not willing to give small publishers an interest-free loan up front. I’m only willing to pay when the product ships like other reputable businesses.

>113 astropi: Yes. Sappho has many pages with only a line or two of text.

>115 jroger1: I was surprised the delivery date is so far away. An entire year!

>117 What_What: Paul covered this in his livestream on Wednesday. He said the book wasn’t as far along as he’d like but due to several factors they needed to announce now (one being the upcoming art gallery by the artist) - He also mentioned that Suntup has been working on the title for a couple of years.

>118 Objectr: Interesting. All of those sound like they’re his problems though. And not really problems his customers need to be concerned with, such that they’re being asked to give out these interest-free loans. But hey, if they’re willing.

>119 What_What: what’s interesting is that you’d label it as a problem and imply that he’s burdening customers with it when it’s disclosed upfront on a voluntary purchase. Don’t like it, don’t buy it, don’t have a problem.

This business model isn’t solely owned by Suntup and certainly not just in the fine book world. An astounding number of other companies do the same thing.

Where was the similar caustic tongue when Barbarian Press recently emailed for prepayment on 3 productions? I’ll wait.

>120 Objectr: FWIW, I do think that Suntup's policies are way more restrictive than other publishers. For example, numbered editions can only be cancelled 14 days after preorder, after that there is NO refund - even if the book doesn't show up for a year or more. After 30 days, the AEs can only be cancelled for store credit. I don't know of any other publisher which does this. I've been able to cancel preorders for full refunds from other publishers.

Perhaps these policies are a relic of the time when Suntup was a thing. Given that the last 2 numbered editions are still available, and it looks like Stepford Wives will be available for quite some time, and the majority of their releases lose value pretty quickly, I hope these restrictive policies will change.

All honest and to put in my five-cents worth on the issue of long waits for releases one has already paid for: I'm used to waiting for releases for a long time, but it is frustrating and a bit of a joykill when it takes too long. I appreciate it, that Folio Society doesn't work this way, to name one relatively small publisher. Small businesses that are just starting up have my complete sympathy there - they need the money upfront to be able to get their editions out at all. That being said, Areté said so and only sold a small number of books long ahead of time to cover that cost. The rest was sold several months later. Subterranean Press has recently sold some titles that were already in stock. I assume that this change in their usual model probably happened because lately production costs and shipping fees have gone through very fast developments, which I assume cut into their profit margins. I have my doubts that Suntup's finances are such that they couldn't do the same in most cases, this one being an exception because of the artist's requirements. The one big plus is that they're keeping people up to date quite well. With other publishers, you can spend months and years waiting for your pre-paid product with little to no information about what's going on.

>121 punkzip: I wholeheartedly agree that the return policy is absurd.

>115 jroger1: >117 What_What: >120 Objectr: This is a complicated issue. It's a double edged sword, and there are quite a few good reasons not to offer collectors reservations far in advance of an edition's release. I've basically done a 180 on it, and starting in 2023 will only be announcing No Reply editions when they're ready to ship.

>120 Objectr: I agree completely. Many other small press publishers in this space work this way and have done so for decades. All things considered, Suntup does pretty well with shipping books. Yes, some have taken up to a year, but others have been within 3-4 months after announcement. On the last live feed, Paul indicated that this year to date, they have shipped 30 different editions. That's impressive given the current climate and supply chain issues.

>125 John_McClane:
Ordering ahead would be okay as long as they don’t charge our credit cards
until it ships. I was burned once on a kickstarter that was never published, and I’ve been waiting almost 4 years for another. Never again.

>126 jroger1: I don’t think Kickstarter is a good comparison. At least when buying direct from Suntup, you get some measure of purchase protection through your credit card issuer (i.e. ability to request charge backs when a vendor acts in bad faith). If the company behind a Kickstarter campaign fails to deliver, you have little to no recourse.

>127 const-char-star: Quite true. I was able once to contest a Kickstarter charge with my bank, but otherwise the many I've backed that folded have been money lost. My consolation is that through Kickstarter I've also started a writing career, and made more from that than I ever lost in backing. So I'm ahead of the game there. Nowadays I rarely back new projects unless it's from makers I know.

>128 Shadekeep: I guess I’ve been lucky with Kickstarter! I’ve had one recently that drastically underdelivered, and others like Beehive’s “Dracula” that are stuck in production hell, but I don’t think I’ve ever had one totally fold after collecting without a refund.

Next slate of books have been teased:

"Originally published in October 1982, we are honored to commemorate the 40th anniversary of this important work with a signed limited edition published under its original title, featuring a new introduction by the author and reproductions of several historical documents featured in the novel."

"This Pulitzer-nominated author has written over 50 books, but perhaps none more disturbing than this Bram Stoker Award winning novel in which she explores the mind of a serial killer."

"This psychological horror novel from an author we have published several times before involves an innocent eight year old boy and the traumatic circumstances that lead him to become a killer."

The first two are almost certainly Schindler's List (Schindler's Ark) and Zombie by Joyce Carol Oates.

>131 jskalitz: The third one might be "The Devil Crept In" by Ania Ahlborn. I haven't read it though, so not sure if the plot hint is an exact match. I'm surprised they're doing another Ania Ahlborn novel so soon, but I don't think there's another frequent collaborator that it could be.

>132 NathanOv: I'm thinking it's actually Hannibal Rising, which deals with an 8-year-old Hannibal Lecter.

>133 AMindForeverVoyaging: You're right I think - I knew it wasn't one of Harris's non-Hannibal books, but forgot about that one.

>130 jskalitz: Nicely sleuthed! Schindler's List was originally titled "Schindler's Ark".
Easton Press published a nice signed edition. Of course I'm sure the Suntup edition will be superior in most every way. Such an important work, I do hope it's letterpress.

I hope at some point Suntup decides to do letterpress editions of Jim Thompson. His most famous book is "The Killer Inside Me" which I personally believe is far from his best work! I've read... well at least 6 of his novels. Not sure I have a favorite, but not the aforementioned :)

>133 AMindForeverVoyaging: Agree. BUT, Thomas Harris books have earlier been published by suntup as the first book of january - if I`m not mistaken (which I am, probably).

Oh, Lord. I knew eventually Suntup was going to publish a JCO book after she was picked to sign The Road (awful choice).

A Wild Sheep Chase
Zombie

Not sure about the third. Hope it's not Hannibal Rising, or another Ania book.

>137 Undergroundman: A Wild Sheep Chase would be incredible, but unfortunately doesn’t quite match the hint apart from release year and technically having a different original title

>138 NathanOv: LOL

Wishful thinking on my part.

A special from Suntup: American Gods.

>140 AMindForeverVoyaging: Given that the last 3 numbered editions are still available and peak Suntup is definitely over, it's interesting that Suntup is using a new marketing technique to drum up interest and stay relevant.

>141 punkzip: Risk mitigation for sure as the pile of unsold books continues to grow. I can't believe more people didn't take note of his lowering limitations on some upcoming numbered editions back to 250 after saying 350 was here to stay.

>142 stumguy: I was surprised as well. After announcing it'll be 350, and the limitation numbers don't matter much, suddenly the final 100 are left out in the cold. But maybe they are thankful, who knows.

>142 stumguy: I'm not so sure if it is risk mitigation as American Gods is a book that would probably sell out fairly quickly compared to the most of the Suntup lineup. I take it as a marketing technique to draw attention when they are definitely declining in sales, and perhaps encourage people to hold on to their (mostly useless) rights so they can have a shot at a numbered or lettered American Gods - sort of like announcing early that Hellbound Heart is coming in the future.

I definitely noticed the change back to 250 for some books, which definitely contradicts what was previously said. I think what Suntup really needs to do is just publish less - maybe a book every 2 months or so.

Neil Gaiman sure does like signing things.

Aren't the 250 from old contracts he signed? Either way... couldn't care less about Gaiman books. And I do think this is a lame way to keep people on the train. It's absurd to act like 1000 signed copies wouldn't be enough for the general public, and you now need a waitlist. Insulting.

Neil Gaiman is very popular, so the wait list could well make sense. Just think of the mess with Lyra's Books and Coraline, where a lot of interested people haven't been able to get even a slightly fair chance at buying their numbered edition. We'll see if things are at least slightly better with the standard edition.

>144 punkzip: I honestly think any “marketing” behind this interest gauge, which isn’t that unusual, would be to get people back on the numbered rights train well ahead of publication.

They know American Gods numbered / lettered / Roman Numeral editions are guaranteed sellouts, but seeing the announcement made me immediately check to see if Stepford Wives was still available to secure rights before reminding myself there are already at least 3 other books that I have no interest in lined up before American Gods

>146 Undergroundman: I tried to read this book and it was a bunch of scenes that don't really go anywhere then at one point the main character ends up in a small town in Wisconsin or something and it's all pointless and dull small town drama. I gave up at that point.

But then the TV adaptation came out and I gave it another chance and that was a real disaster - totally wasting the talents of a lot of actors I like before it completely flies off the rails into utter ridiculousness. The whole thing really turned me off to Gaiman generally and this title in particular. I just don't get what anyone sees in his stories, so yeah spending hundreds of dollars on this is a huge NO.

>149 rsmac: “The whole thing really turned me off to Gaiman generally.”

To each their own, but I will say that American Gods is not a great reflection of Gaiman’s body of work, since it really stands alone being his only book of that length or style. Even the “sequel,” Anansi Boys, has a drastically different tone and moves at more of a clip like most of his other novels.

Despite the accolades, I’d say American Gods is his most challenging and divisive book for a variety of reasons

This may sound like an attempt to burnish my elite snob bona fides, but I'll be glad when "filk fiction" dies its long overdue death, or at least recedes back into the subculture where it belongs. Seeing so many fine press publishers jump on the bandwagon is disheartening, especially when there are so many better books left undone.

I haven't bought anything from Suntup since the Imajica AE, but I would buy this edition of American Gods for sure, perhaps in the numbered edition if it ends up being available to non-rights holders (and if I find the binding attractive).

For those that made a quick judgment based only on the author and title, I would also note the following two points. First, the artist looks like an excellent choice to me (with the caveat about subjectivity in art etc.), certainly head and shoulders above most of the recent illustrator choices they have made:

https://www.yoannlossel.com/artwork

The style is a nice blend of golden age illustration and the modern fantastic, perfect for Gaiman's work. Despite loving McKean's Sandman covers, I find his illustrations and cover design for the Folio Society edition of American Gods to be lackluster, and have been hoping for a more attractive edition to come around for a while.

Second, all editions will be printed letterpress, and the announcement contained an explicit note about using "some of the finest" papers. It seems like they are aiming for a true fine press landmark, not just a limited edition with a fancy binding.

Given that the demand for this title will be the constant Suntup crowd + occasional Suntup crowd (like me) + big Gaiman fans (of which there are a lot), minus the Suntup crowd that can't stand Gaiman (which I suspect is a very small number), I do not think this preorder/announcement is a cynical move at all. I am grateful for the heads up and suspect supply will struggle to keep up in this case.

>151 Shadekeep: "Filk fiction."

I am genuinely interested in your definition for this term. Surely, you can't be referring to all science fiction and fantasy? Do you categorize works that plays off of existing myths or sci-fi / fantasy works?

>150 NathanOv: I've tried other Gaiman, too. He has concepts but doesn't have stories. He more or less makes things up as he goes along and it turns into a grab bag of ideas without any direction or strong sense that anything really matters in contributing to building character or narrative. Like with American Gods - "old world gods in decline in America" - not a bad concept, but then he doesn't have a story to hang that idea on so it's just one thing after another happening. Unless you are so in love with the concept that story or character don't matter, it's unsatisfying.

>153 NathanOv: "Filk fiction" is my term for that particular subset of fiction which follows the pattern "here's a dark and/or irreverent and/or meta take on insert beloved literary property". It's more narrowly defined than just that, but the fine details are hard to describe, more of a "you'll know it when you see it thing". Its apotheosis was in the late 80s when the style was comparatively new and exciting, and it has sense become as stale and as mired in genre tropes as steampunk.

I took the name from that long-time convention tradition of "filk singing", where you take an existing song and change the lyrics to be about Battlestar Galactica or whatever. Basically filk fiction is a cousin to fan fiction, both being genres for creative people who aren't particularly creative. Naturally people disagree with my take, hence the self-categorisation of my opinions as elite snobbery.

>154 rsmac: He has concepts but doesn't have stories.

Precisely. Though this is a predominant pattern across the Late Internet period of fiction (i.e., right now). Trends like flash fiction, movies with outlandish hooks that don't hold up narratively, and basically anything that prioritises image over substance (or as it might be phrased now, buzz over depth) all fall into the same bucket. I'm reminded of the old saying about people who prefer art that looks like something they themselves could have drawn.

>154 rsmac: Fair enough, he's absolutely best known for his ideas and concepts, though I do greatly enjoy the plots of Neverwhere, Stardust and Ocean at the End of The Lane. I think Monarch of The Glen, set in the world of American Gods demonstrates that Gaiman can weave strong stories around these ideas. American Gods does jump between a lot of very loosely connected narratives of various substance, though.

>155 Shadekeep: That's interesting - I think you can find examples from throughout the history of literature that fall into that category. Jules Verne, for example, got his start by riffing off of Poe stories, with From The Earth To The Moon being both "meta," claiming the real-world exploits of the story were inspired by Poe's faux article, and much lighter (you could say irreverent) in tone. I feel like writing one's own riff off of another author's work was even more prevalent a 100+ years ago than it is today, meta and irreverent or not.

I love Yoann Lossel's work - I have the art book he published himself via Kickstarter as well as the Easton Press Beowulf. But I must say I'm a bit worried about how well or badly Suntup will present his illustrations in American Gods. So far they just print the illustrations on regular paper and coloured illustrations tend to lose a lot compared to what you see on the internet. (At least in the AGEs I have, but I don't think they do tipped-in illustrations on different paper in other editions either.) And that would be a mess with Lossel, who works intensely with metallic elements, in particular gold leaf in his art. Unless they go a different way with these, the books won't do justice to his art work, which would be a shame. It really needs suitable paper and gold ink.

>151 Shadekeep: I think it is a real stretch to connect any of Gaiman's work with filk, which as a genre is (narrowly) folk music about nerdy things like Star Trek and (broadly) fan creations inspired by popular sci-fi/fantasy culture.

If one had to pigeonhole Gaiman's genre, I think it would be more accurate to group his work roughly with urban fantasy (the implied Venn diagram here heavily overlapping with creations such as Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles, White Wolf's World of Darkness, Grossman's Magicians series, Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, True Blood, Jim Jarmusch's Only Lovers Left Alive, etc.). (Edit to note that I think this list of associations varies widely in quality, and is not intended as approbation. The Magicians series is probably at the high end quality-wise, though I should mention I haven't actually read any Jim Butcher. Only Lovers Left Alive is an amazing movie, however, and I admit to having fond feelings about Interview for the Vampire.) This informal artistic movement can skew either more or less campy, and in my opinion Gaiman lands firmly on the less campy/more inspired by mythology side (with the exception maybe of Good Omens, which is high camp, but also coauthored by Pratchett).

But then I am a big Gaiman fan, so I suppose it might be fair to consider this a biased perspective.

Regarding American Gods specifically, I find it odd that anyone would consider the book challenging in any way. The plot is a relatively straightforward Jungian allegory (the viewpoint character's name is even Shadow!) presented as an adventure story with various mythological echoes that I personally find effective and well executed. Without giving too much away, I think it does a good job of exposing the structural ur-myth that underlies both the Christ story and the Odin story. Also, "The Technical Boy" character predated the rise to power of people such as Mark Zuckerberg, and successive waves of techno-utopian entrepreneurs, so perhaps we can give Gaiman some credit of foresight.

The TV series has great actors (Ian McShane especially, though all of them do a good job), but has a bad case of Netflix plot (it doesn't really follow the book, at least what I saw of the first 1.5 seasons before losing patience with it). The show's title sequence is, however, a work of art itself, and is worth a couple minutes of youtube to watch:

>157 NathanOv: See, I knew my explanation of the idea wouldn't convey. It's a very specific style, and saying "well X did this too" isn't the same thing. That's like saying George Orwell and Beatrix Potter were the same because they both wrote books with human-traited animals. Filk fiction is very specifically a thing, but fans of it don't want to hear that, so I've given up most times trying to explain it. I only tried here because I've had good talks with you before and thought you might get it.

And yes, Verne wrote a piece that is ostensibly fan fiction. But then he moved on and had ideas of his own. I've not seen any filk author demonstrate the same, and none of them will have the longevity of Verne and company. If someone thinks a filk author has original ideas, they either aren't well-read enough or have a woolly notion of what "original" constitutes. </elitesnobbery>

>160 Shadekeep: Oh, I certainly didn't mean to dismiss your categorization. I just wonder if maybe you've artificially tied it to a certain time period or "trend," when there are plenty of literary giants that were recieved in a very similar way in their own times, but that you're giving more veneration due to them standing the test of time. Who knows yet if authors like Silvia Moren Garcia or Mat Johnson who've written books that I'm pretty sure you'd classify as "filk" will be remembered in 100 years. I'd say that both of those authors applied "original" ideas to long-standing literary tropes, however.

Even so, like >159 abysswalker: said, I'm not sure how American Gods fits the definition you've shared.

>159 abysswalker: Sorry, you're never going to shift me from this hill, and what you think are counter-examples to my position only solidify it for me. My studies of folklore and narrative styles have peeled back the skin on these kinds of authors and I can see the (to me, rudimentary) workings beneath. If you like it, you like it, and are free to do so. If you think it's good fiction, or even great fiction, that's your prerogative as well. But I am never going to see it as more than filk fiction.

I'm not saying this kind of thing can't be done well. The recent line of alternative Shakespeare takes from Hogarth were largely very well written and of quality. But this particular author, and those equally lionised fellow travelers, are of a group which I have yet to see rise above their very fannish lot. Again, anyone can disagree with me and I don't think the less of them for it. This is merely where I stand.

On the fan fiction note, after having read a bit more primary source mythology as an adult, and reading something about Tolkien's creative process, it kind of blew my mind to realize that Gandalf is basically Odin fan fiction! Tolkien writes as much in his letters, and of course much of Middle-Earth is mythological syncretism, with The Hobbit owing a huge debt to Norse and Anglo-Saxon mythology, especially Beowulf...

(Apologies for the verging-on-off-topic tangent, but American Gods → Odin → Gandalf is a pretty short jump once one realizes the shared source inspirations.)

>162 Shadekeep: of course; I don't expect (and wasn't trying) to change your mind (or the minds of anyone who already has an established aesthetic preference). My elaboration is more for those who haven't yet read much Gaiman but enjoy the kind of fantasy that draws from mythological traditions directly (that is, using explicit symbols and recognizable characters).

>161 NathanOv: It's not merely the gloss of time, there are plenty of old authors I find dreadful as well. :)

I am not familiar with the writings of Silvia Moreno-Garcia, as an example, but from a cursory glance at her books, I don't know that I'd put her in the same camp. It's not as simple as just writing an updated take on something - the great British New Wave author Brian W. Aldiss wrote takes on Dracula, Frankenstein, and Dr. Moreau which were all quality fiction by my reckoning. I think it would be very hard for me to really convey this line I've drawn demarcating filk fiction without an in-depth analysis or studious paper going into more detail than anyone wants to read (certainly more than I want to write). It is in some ways a visceral reaction. Or as the old judge quipped, "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it."

>159 abysswalker: I would disagree on how well executed it was. I came away disappointed in how basic the characters were. Mythical archetypes/gods in the modern world and what do we get from Gaiman? A leprechaun who is an Irish guy who drinks and gets into bar fights. Anubis as an undertaker. Easter as an earth mother type in a frilly Easter dress.

Pretty much all of them are the exact stereotypical versions you would get if you went on one of those websites where people throw out writing prompts and randos give their uninspired, obvious take on the concept. It's all so expected and Gaiman doesn't do much to grow them past those basic character ideas.

>166 rsmac: 👍

And with that, I'm out! 😁

>165 Shadekeep: Well, I didn't mean for this to be the last word, but it sounds like you've drawn the line at whether or not you enjoy the work, given you've clarified multiple "dark and/or irreverent and/or meta takes on beloved literary properties" that you would not classify that way simply because they are "quality fiction."

Which is totally fair - eveyone has preferences. But if the test is that you'll "know it when you see it," I'm not sure how you can apply the whole thing to works you haven't necessarily read, which makes it hard to define as supposed literary movement.

Irrespective of my personal feelings on Gaiman's fiction, I am on team "I wish there was more variety in fine and collectible press output." Lyra's Coraline, Suntup's American Gods, Folio's Neverwhere . . . even if he was my favorite author of all time, there are so many other authors that I'd like to see on offer. But he does sell.

I feel like Suntup is doing a good job of mixing up their fine press works. Animal Farm finally sold out not too long ago, and that is a fine press publication that for years has been lacking! Stepford Wives is also fine press. And now a fine press American Gods. Gaiman maybe a prolific autographer, but he is also one of the world's most popular living authors. His works have been, are, and will continue to be adapted to the stage and television. For what it's worth (and I know, it's not necessarily worth all that much), one ranking listed him as #7 in "The Greatest Living Writers & Most Famous Authors Today"
https://www.ranker.com/list/best-living-writers/ranker-books

>168 NathanOv: Again, I don't see the problem as my classification, but rather my inability to articulate the properties of the classification. When I say I know when it see it, it's because it has earmark characteristics, but they are ones which it's hard for me to codify in a way other people grasp. (Sort of like explaining a color to someone who doesn't see it, or coming up with words that truly relate the flavor of a pecan.) The explaining is made even harder when people don't want to take them as distinct characteristics but keep dragging them back into bad comparisons. I know some of this is just their attempt to understand the characteristics, but sometimes a lot of it just feels like reflexive defensiveness of something they enjoy and don't want others putting down.

If you don't see the difference between quantum mechanics and nuclear physics, and person can but cannot articulate it, it still means there is a difference. Maybe not to you, but a real difference does exist nonetheless. It is unfortunate that I can't articulate the definition better, but some of that is from past experiences with people listening in bad faith, more eager to shoot down my explanation than hear it properly. Once enough of that happens you learn it's not worth your time. Especially if the other side is just as entrenched in "author X is awesome and brilliant", which means you're never going to reach them.

So in the spirit of communal harmony, let's just leave it at that. Folks are perfectly entitled to think I'm wrong or unfair or delusional. Won't be the first time, unlikely to be the last.

EDIT: Sorry if my tone comes across as surly or defensive or accusatory, I don't mean it too. Been fighting a bout of seasonal illness the past few days and not at peak lucidity. I genuinely like and respect all of you that I've engaged with here.

>171 Shadekeep: I hope you are back in full health soon!

As far as "when people don't want to take them as distinct characteristics but keep dragging them back into bad comparisons," I think the problem is the lack of concrete examples - I had genuinely expected Pym or The Daughter of Doctor Moreau to be the sort of novels you're referring to, and did not intend them as bad comparisons.

So with American Gods as the only point of reference, when it doesn't seem to really match the definition of being a "take on a beloved literary property," or particularly "meta / irreverent," (though it's plenty dark,), I just haven't been able to quite understand the trend you're seeing.

This isn't really a defense of American Gods though - it took me multiple attempts to get through for some of the same reasons others of mentioned here, and the Suntup edition presents a bit of a dillema for me since I'd only intended to read it once more in the nicely illustrated Folio edition.

>172 NathanOv: Yah, I'm not talking about that specific book so much as the oeuvre as a whole. So it could be an imperfect example. But I've yet to see anything from him which approaches original (by my lights), or particularly readable (again, my metrics, not universal). If other folks enjoy it that's fine, the world needs many types. Regardless, however, I do concur with ambyrglow in that it would be nice to see more variety in fine press. I'd feel the same if presses were saturated with any other single author, including those I love. For example, there was an awful lot of Poe a couple years back, though I think some of that did have to do with an anniversary. Still, as much as I love them, there's only so much shelf space I can allocate to another volume of Poe or Conan Doyle. ^_^

Popped onto the facebook group for the first time in a while as nothing out recently or forthcoming for the rest of the year to interest me. Was surprised to see someone selling a selection of AEs at less than 50% of retail and all but one hadn't sold at that price. Someone also selling the sold out numbered Omen at about $100 less than retail and zero interest.

>174 Schlermie: Nothing really surprising about this. Suntup books are more luxury than necessity, and much more numerously produced than most "fine" press. Given the current economic climate, inflation, etc - the fact that demand has slowed drastically is to be expected.

>174 Schlermie: Are they new? Could be AE's from that dinged sale Suntup had not too long ago. Those were seriously discounted.

There are a few comments in this thread about beingn past "peak Suntup" and about the books not selling and/or significantly dropping in value on the secondary market, giving the general impression that Suntup has gone downhill. Am I understanding this correctly? Could someone describe more what the issues with Suntup are? I don't currently own any Suntup books but have been looking at a few of them considering. Thanks, and apologies in advance if this was already covered somewhere and I just missed it.

>177 ExLibrisDavid: I wouldn’t say Suntup’s productions have gone downhill. Most of the discussion as of late about books not selling is more a reflection of the collectibles market as a whole cooling off as the economic climate has shifted.

I’m personally quite optimistic about some of the more recent projects Suntup has in the production pipeline (Slaughterhouse Five, Animal Farm, Dark Matter, The Outsider).

>177 ExLibrisDavid: Suntup does not lack in quality by any means. The books aren’t true “fine press”, but IMO they sit somewhere between something like Folio and fine press. I’ve seen them referred to as gimmicky, but I don’t think that’s entirely fair. A lot of thoughtful design goes into many of Suntup’s productions, particularly the numbered and lettered editions, often incorporating elements of the story; though not all are created equal, and some of their book designs are particularly stronger than others.

Value-wise I think they are pretty fair, especially when they use letterpress printing. Certainly value is no worse than Folio IMO. AE’s are comparable in price to Folio standard editions…slightly more expensive in some cases, but that is commensurate with the quality. And numbered editions are often a fairer price than Folio LE’s (at least here in the states), and generally of a similar or higher standard of quality.

I’ve also seen quite a bit of criticism regarding the books that Suntup chooses to publish, I guess leaning too heavy into genre or popular fiction. But I don’t see that as a drawback at all personally. I love many fine presses but often the works are very obscure, and quite frankly it is nice to have a beautifully designed letterpress edition of something like Blood Meridian or Rosemary’s Baby or The Exorcist.

Long story short, they don’t hold their value/command massive premiums on the secondary market like they used to, but Suntup editions are quality, and if you choose to pull the trigger on one or two now is a good time and I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. Out of curiosity, which one(s) are you eyeing?

>177 ExLibrisDavid: quality had stayed constant, or perhaps increased slightly on average. Demand has decreased somewhat due to economic, cultural, and product (choice of title) factors. Supply has increased slightly (both frequency of releases and quantity of limitation). Since price is a factor of supply and demand, that means price on the secondary market has to go down (which it has).

>179 Nightcrawl: Thanks for your detailed response. I've never read Slaughterhouse-five and was thinking the Suntup version might be a good way to fix that deficiency. I'm also considering the Stepford Wives, as the letterpress/quality at that price point seems really intriguing.

>177 ExLibrisDavid:

It's really not about quality, but about the contrast between now and a year or so ago in how / where the books sell. For a while, Suntup books sold out extremely quickly and were then sold more expensively on the secondary market. Some people made a business of buying up copies at the publishers to use that situation. Lately, that hasn't been such a worthwhile business anymore, so people have a fairer chance at buying directly from Suntup at their publishing price. I consider that a good development. People who buy only to resell or those who buy books they don't really want because they don't want to lose their rights to the next edition won't like this development.

As for quality: Their books are good quality (paper, binding) and often quite creative, though that varies. My only problem is that the illustrations (at least in those editions I have) aren't printed in as good a quality as with many other publishers. They're on the same paper as the text and not printed as well as they could be. That's a shame because their illustrators are often very well chosen and provide fascinating illustrations. I'd prefer to pay more to get better quality there.

>181 ExLibrisDavid: I only have a couple Suntup books at the moment, but am quite happy with the quality. I'm more interested now when they go letterpress, and have ordered both Animal Farm and The Stepford Wives in a good part because of that. It does seem that the buzz about the press has died down, along with the speculative pricing, but I buy books solely for myself, not for after-market value.

>182 SF-72: “They're on the same paper as the text and not printed as well as they could be.”

That seems to have changed in some of the more recent productions. Illustrations in the Replay Numbered are printed on paper that’s much glossier than the Mohawk Vellum paper used for the text.

>184 const-char-star:

That's excellent news, thank you. I only have AGE's so far, and my most recent one still suffers from the paper used for printing the illustrations. I hope what you described will continue, especially with an eye on American Gods, whose illustrator does beautiful and very detailed work, which would suffer more than others unless printed in higher quality.

>183 Shadekeep: I'm more interested now when they go letterpress

What do you mean? Suntup has been doing letterpress for a long time.

Still waiting patiently for my Animal Farm so I can't judge their letterpress yet, but it seems rare to see such massive projects as an 800+ page book done this way. Looking at some of the fine press alternatives like Thornwillow, a price point of ~300 USD for letterpress in quarter cloth (I'm assuming given previous books) plus slipcase seems very competitive on the merits, regardless of how people feel about Gaiman. The illustrator seems great too.
Taking that into account and that Imajica (picked up in the scratch and dent sale) is still one of my most impressive books, I signed up for the wait list.

>186 filox: I think they mean they’re more interested in the letterpress books Suntup publishes, because not all of them are letterpress.

>188 What_What: Precisely.

>187 A.Godhelm: I think American Gods will be great value regardless of what other merit it ends up having. The only other publisher currently offering books of that length at comparable price points is Curious King, and they’ve yet to deliver.

I did want to point out though that Thornwillow has started there last several full-length publications at $95 for paper wrapperS and $195 for half-cloth, though I wouldn’t be surprised by a slight increase with their next release.

>182 SF-72: I disagree about the illustrations. The fact that they are printed on the same text paper is probably intentional, given their obvious commitment to producing a fine edition. Even though illustrations in fine books can be printed on the same paper as the text or on a different paper, coated papers are hardly ever used for fine press editions. That's more of a commercial/trade practice.

As to the quality of the illustration prints, I have several of their editions and I think they are reproduced well. It may just come down to personal preference, but for me I like the fact that they don't use glossy papers for their illustrations. And as someone else pointed out, there are exceptions, like what they did with Replay. I'd also be interested to see how they handle American Gods.

>191 John_McClane:

In my (admittedly limited) experience, the colour illustrations suffer from the way they are printed in my Suntup editions. (I don't have Replay, so can't say anything about it.) The reproductions don't do justice to photos of the work shown online, both the colours and how 'sharp' they are. I must admit that I'm very much into art and take good art reproduction quite seriously, probably more so than your average book collector. And to me it's not necessarily about glossy paper, by the way, although that helps with some mediums. Watercolours tend to be a lot closer to the effect of the originals with non-glossy paper. But the demands of good text and good illustrations when it comes to paper are usually different. That's my problem here.

>177 ExLibrisDavid: As others have noted, I too think the quality has actually gone up. What I think has changed is that the FOMO surrounding Suntup has largely dissipated. People were indeed purchasing multiple copies in order to sell them or just hold on to them with the notion that they will appreciate unto infinity. Fortunately the realization is that the crazy demand, largely attributed to FOMO and money, is behind us. This is great for those that actually want lovely editions. Suntup is not technically a "fine press" since not all their editions are letterpress. However, they are publishing truly "fine press" editions such as Animal Farm, Stepford Wives, etc. AND the prices on these letterpress editions is fabulous! Under $200 for a letterpress book with original illustrations is wonderful. A basic non-limited non-letterpress Folio Society book will by itself run you over $100. I encourage you to give Suntup a chance. Consider ordering the Artist Edition of Stepford Wives which is printed letterpress and offered at a remarkable price - not to mention absolutely stunning illustrations
https://shop.suntup.press/products/the-stepford-wives-by-ira-levin-artist-editio...

I think there has been some drop in interest. The Facegroup group was once teeming with activity and discussion, it's certainly less active now. Seems to be mostly sales posts that don't sell. I managed to catch a live stream last month and there were certainly less people than there was when I used to try and catch them regularly Could well be the economic issues, but I also I think there is less interest in some of the titles these days. I know there has been nothing to interest me in the the last 3 months and nothing in the next 3 months so I've kinda dialed out for the rest of the year. The books are decent. I just don't think as many people want them any longer.

>194 Schlermie: “ less interest in some of the titles these days.”

Suntup has always had wildly different levels of interest between titles. I do not know why some people insist on seeing the books before / after Charlie and the Chocolate Factory as their rise and fall in popularity, when that one book just happened to draw a broader audience then usual and generated some mostly short-lived additional interest in the press.

The Handmaids Tale was a similar situation, and I’m sure we’ll see a repeat with American Gods.

I just don’t see the waning interest - like you said, it’s all about the titles.

>195 NathanOv: I have to disagree here. There has been a very substantial dropoff in interest in Suntup publications, starting after Charlie was announced. This is not related to the titles, as Suntup had always published a mix of popular and less popular titles. The difference is that now only the popular titles are selling out quickly, while in the past even the less popular titles could sell out fairly quickly, particularly at the numbered level.

There are multiple strands of evidence for this. First of all, the last 3 numbered editions are still available for purchase. Never used to see this in the past.

Suntup numbered rights once carried some values, in fact, people were willing to pay as much as $500 for them. Now Suntup rights have no additional value.

The secondary market has slowed very substantially. Basically, excluding the most famous titles, unless a fire sale price is offered, it probably isn't selling. There have been titles offered for 1/3 of the publication price.

Finally, it's clear that Suntup realizes that demand is abating and is reducing limitations to reflect this. While it was previously stated that 350 was the numbered limitation doing forward (with only 1 more 250 to go), it's clear now that Suntup is shifting back to 250 for more than 1 future publication. Also, Paul just stated in the video today that the next AE (Schindler's Ark most likely) will have a 750 AE limitation, unlike the previous 1000 limitation.

The success of Suntup's model was based on temporary demand (for goods as opposed to unavailable services) driven by the pandemic as well as a period of good economic times. They have a much more aggressive publication schedule, with larger limitations, than anyone else. Now that the previous factors driving demand are no longer present (and in terms of the economy very much different) the model no longer works as it once did, largely because their publication schedule is so aggressive.

It's also worth noting how much of Suntup's model was based on FOMO. Their return policy (which is absurd) clearly reflects this. Previously Suntup would give credit for numbered editions cancellations after 14 days (as I recall), but now there are NO refunds. Contrast this to any other publisher, all of whom (in my experience) will give you a full refund for preorders. Why is this? I take it that Suntup realizes that many people buy their editions based on FOMO and when this FOMO abated (particularly as it becomes obvious the books cannot be sold at a profit but rather a loss), they don't want a large number of cancellations.

>196 punkzip: I’m feeling a little deja vu on this debate, so won’t repeat myself, and yes - the market has changed. But if we’re just considering Suntup as a press, they were simply never as popular or in demand as “Charlie” briefly made them appear.

They were and still seem highly successful, but all the inflated prices for rights and “FOMO” so to speak was a very brief window for them.

I suspect Arete, Curious King and other new presses will have similar lifecycles, where once they develop lengthier back catalogues and publish their most popular titles, they’ll be in the very healthy and normal position of limitations being much closer to demand and secondary prices being much closer to publication prices.

I think a natural part was the number of back titles. If a press has 5-10 back titles and you suddenly stumble upon it, you might try to buy the titles you had missed. If the press has 30 titles then you won’t bother trying for a full collection (at least from day 1)

>197 NathanOv: You are quite out of tune with respect to that press, not that there's anything wrong with that, per se.

"But if we’re just considering Suntup as a press, they were simply never as popular or in demand as “Charlie” briefly made them appear."

Some time back, someone paid $2,400 for a $600 book just because it came with rights to the next book, which was Blood Meridian. That, to me, was peak Suntup. By the time Charlie came along, which can barely sell for retail now, it's a $1k children's book, the hype was way below what it was before.

The secondary market prices of books is also a useful gauge of interest. After all, if people are interested, people are likely purchasing the books. But the majority of their books from the last year or more sell at or close to retail, if not below.

>199 What_What: "Some time back, someone paid $2,400 for a $600 book just because it came with rights to the next book, which was Blood Meridian. That, to me, was peak Suntup. By the time Charlie came along, which can barely sell for retail now, it's a $1k children's book, the hype was way below what it was before."

The book before BM was The Wolfen, which retailed at $450 and sells for substantially less than that now. If someone paid $2400 for The Wolfen - a fool and their money … I actually think peak Suntup was the book preceding that - The Exorcist - which was the only Suntup book to my knowledge to have no numbered copies available for public sale. As for expensive children's books, Charlie is hardly the only example of that - I see a general trend towards doing expensive YA and children's books in the fine/small press world.

>199 What_What: You’re right to call these most popular editions “peaks,” but I think mischaracterizing it as a rise and then dropoff in interest, when like you pointed out, it’s been highly variable for a while.

There’s of course a strong consistent customer base, but the majority of buyer’s interest is based on the popularity of individual titles.

>200 punkzip: It was SOTL, so maybe a couple books before BM then?

The discussions about Suntup on this forum are always... interesting. It's clear that there are some folks here who, for whatever reason, simply do not like Suntup as a company and maybe even dislike Paul personally (and no, I'm not broadly accusing anyone who has been critical of this). But we have gone from a fair number of folks criticizing Suntup for purposely over-restricting supply (supposedly) in order to create a buying frenzy and to drive up secondary market prices to now practically predicting Suntup's long-term decline (and perhaps demise) since "clearly" their best days are behind them, and not many people are interested in their books anymore.

Alrighty then.

I haven't follow this arc as closely as most, but mightn't part of it be just that Suntup was A Hot Thing for a short while? This sounds like it coincided with the whole BookTok/Covid frenzy and they were one of the beneficiaries. Now the hotness has passed and they are settling into being a more regular purveyor of books. What interests me is that they are actually moving more in line with my tastes now, releasing some affordable and gorgeously illustrated letterpress books. If losing "instant phenomenon" status for every release is what necessitated this move into better books (by my subjective metric), so be it.

>204 Shadekeep: Sounds like a good metaphor for my love life.

>204 Shadekeep:

I think that's it with the 'hot thing'. I really appreciate more normal conditions, when people who like a book can actually buy it from the publisher, not at inflated prices from scalpers, and people who don't want a book don't feel pressured into buying it because that's the only chance to get future books in the 'finer' editions.

Many members probably stayed on simply because of the Blood Meridian. After that they could lower their guard and somewhat relax. Blood Meridian was the last "extremely must have" hyped publication from Suntup if I remember correctly. It did slightly went down from there. The waiting time, the hype, the talk that lead up to it.

Suntup started on a very high, few but great. As said, Suntup publishes more books now, more commercial, that and the economic situation around the globe naturally plays a large part. I notice it myself, therfore I am kind of glad I am not as tempted at the moment. It`s a good thing, and not just for me, for many of you also.

It would be cool if Suntup stayed on with the mysteries from the start of Suntup. I loved that. It felt unique and special. But now, Suntup has gone - en masse. Win some, loose some as always.

Personally I am waiting for that publication which makes me really crave. I demand more mostly because of the times we are in. Meanwhile a lot of books to read, no stress.

The back catalogue of Suntup is also growing relatively rapidly, which also play a part in that I don`t need to collect them all. More publications makes the more picky ones even more picky.

The new Suntup release Schindler's Ark now has a limitation of 750 AE and 250 numbered. Supposedly the prior change to 1000/350 was permanent - as I understand it there were 3 more 250 numbered limitations by contract when this change happened and 2 of them have already been published. So is 750/250 now the new limitation going forward (with perhaps the exception of the most famous titles like American Gods)? Interesting how this change was made without any announcement, but it's clearly a reflection of a changed market.

What does everything think of the new release? I have the signed EP version so I'm going to pass but it's a difficult book to do as the somber topic restrains what you can do in terms of binding (which is what Suntup is really known for), and I'm not even sure a book like this should be illustrated. A bit far from Suntup's wheelhouse certainly, but a good choice I think.

>209 punkzip: "Supposedly the prior change to 1000/350 was permanent"

Here is the actual statement:

... Therefore, in order to better satisfy our growing customer base, but still maintain what I consider to be a very limited run, we will be increasing our Numbered edition print run to 350 copies for select titles over the next year and a half. ...

https://suntup.press/news/satisfying-increased-demand/

>210 abysswalker: I seem to recall that it was clearly stated (at some point in 2021) that there were only 3 250 numbered releases left (per contract - for example Handmaid's Tale was one), and that all releases after that would be 350. Is this incorrect?

>209 punkzip: Schindler’s Ark and the November title will have a 750/250 limitation while the December title will have a 1000/350. As for it being the new norm, will have to see what limitations are called out in next quarter’s announcement schedule.

>211 punkzip: I don't know; I'm not a Suntup historian, or even a particularly regular customer (bought a handful, currently own two). I just remember the official blog post I linked above, which seems like an eminently reasonable business decision to me.

The Artist edition of Schindler's Ark is now available for pre-order on the Suntup website, and it looks absolutely stunning!

https://suntup.press/schindlers-ark/

Seems like a very nice edition. Illustrations are suitably dour given the subject. An introduction by the author is a nice addition and the historical material seems appropriate. All editions look very sober and restrained. This is a bit of a curveball to their usual fare, so it'll be interesting to see the customer response.

I really like that Suntup is diversifying their material and not just focusing on popular authors/subjects such as horror, fantasy, etc. I'd like to order a numbered edition of Schindler's Ark, but don't know how much the price is? Nor of course if any will be available after right holders purchase.

>216 astropi: it’s priced at $675. However, the limitation decrease means that every copy is tied to existing rights, so it all depends on how many Stepford Wives buyers are also interested in this.

I'm not particularly interested in the book, but the broadsides included with the lettered edition look lovely. I'm sad the ones available for separate purchase are already sold out.

>218 ambyrglow: Agreed. I really hope Suntup might produce more of those.

>216 astropi: >217 NathanOv: Sounds like 28 copies went to public sale (no lottery). Sold out within 5 minutes.

Looks like the waitlist emails for American Gods have gone out, just received mine.

>221 lzy23: Got mine as well. Is there anyone who did not make the waitlist? Not sure why they went the waitlist road for 1000 copies which is a lot.

>222 punkzip: True, but Gaiman does have a very strong fan base and I am willing to bet that even at 1000 copies it will quickly sell-out, very possibly even sell-out during the pre-order. Although pricier than some other editions, considering the size, signed by the author and illustrator, printed beautiful letterpress... absolutely worth it!!

>222 punkzip: I received an email saying I didn't make the waitlist. Kind of hard to believe given that I distinctly remember replying within minutes of receiving the original email. I'm a little irritated by all this to be honest, why not just release the 1000 copies for pre-order as for every other release?

>224 Levin40: No email at all here, but I'm sure I waited too long since I didn't join until the next day. I wonder if only a fraction of them are being held for the waitlist, and a good number are undoubtedly going to other stores.

>224 Levin40: I replied within a minute as I recall. So it probably took a minute or two to fill? If you are going to do a waitlist, why make it dependent on being lucky enough to see the email and respond right away? Perhaps they should have given an opportunity first to those who bought a certain number of books from the press this year. Or just do a lottery for slots. Given that the book won't even be released until late 2023, I think a lot of it was just marketing and a way to increase hype during a downturn in the market.

>222 punkzip: I didn’t make the wait list.

>226 punkzip: “Given that the book won't even be released until late 2023, I think a lot of it was just marketing.”

Late 2023 is the time of the official announcement and the opening for preorders, so it won’t be released until 2024.

I’m on the waitlist, but I might be dead by then or at least have forgotten all about it. That would open up another opportunity for some lucky member of this forum.

With a no obligation announcement like this many people probably just threw their hat in the ring for the sake of it as well.

The risk for Suntup now is possibly they overestimate the actual demand.

>229 What_What: Considering some people did not even make the list, I think it's safe to say that Suntup did not overestimate the demand. Gaiman is a hot commodity right now. American Gods the TV series lasted for three seasons, and introduced many to Gaiman. The Sandman has been renewed for a second season. I'm willing to bet that there will be some people who are on the list and will not purchase the book. I'm also willing to bet that once the sale goes public, it will be done within a matter of minutes.

Paul hasn't set a limitation yet and has said that people not on the waitlist will have a chance to get a copy as well. It seems like the waitlist is the absolute minimum possible limitation, and the expectation is that copies above and beyond that number will be available.

>230 astropi: Those are good points as well. I guess we’ll see in about one year!

>232 What_What: It's crazy to think that we still have to wait a year before we can even order! Still, I can't blame Suntup for gauging interest, and as >231 donaldmcobb: noted the limitation might dramatically increase.

>233 astropi: >231 donaldmcobb: I think that's what the cynical comments about just generating "hype" are missing - they seem to have every intention of releasing as many Standards (Artist's?) as possible to meet demand.

It's a bit strange they didn't post the waitlist registration somewhere publicly, as Neil would almost definitely have shared it and garnered a more accurate interest, but it does make sense they'd want to give existing press customers the first chance to reserve.

Looks like someone got the Golden Ticket for the $14.5K Roman Numeral Charlie. This edition was much discussed here previously. I doubt this will eventually be worth anywhere near $14.5K but an extremely lucky win in any case.

>235 punkzip: What a lucky lady! It was hidden in an Artist's edition btw.

>235 punkzip: If it were me, I'd sell it immediately, while all the hype is still around.

>237 What_What: "If it were me, I'd sell it immediately, while all the hype is still around."

Agreed. However, it looks like there is a very substantial downturn in the Suntup secondary market (this is probably true across the board, but it looks like it has affected Suntup the most), and there are titles being discounted more than 50% in order to move them. I haven't seen any Roman Numerals on sale before, but most of the lettered states have lost a lot of value, even prior to the downturn (with the exception of the most famous titles). While Charlie is famous it isn't (for obvious reasons) signed by the author, and it is far outside the wheelhouse of most Suntup collectors. A lot of the initial sales were driven by hype and the lottery and I don't think the intrinsic demand for the title is that high. So I'd be quite curious to see what this would go for if put on the secondary market right now - I suspect substantially less than $14.5K. In the long run I'd suspect this would drop even more so unless the winner is a big Charlie fan and doesn't need money right now, a quick sale seems prudent.

I’m looking at Suntup’s Animal Farm Artist Edition right now, and I notice that it’s sold out but available on the Dark Regions website. Given that it’s still in production, I was curious if anyone had more context on the relationship between these two. I’ve seen a few mentions on LibraryThing and Reddit that seem to imply it’s fairly common for Dark Regions to have Suntup editions in stock even after they’re out of stock on the Suntup site. Does Dark Regions get a guaranteed set of each Suntup print run?

>239 Tambien: Yes, Dark Regions Press gets copies of the numbered as well as the Artist Edition; they are a Suntup partner/retailer. They are legitimate, and I wouldn't have concerns purchasing it from them.

>240 What_What: Ah, thank you! Very much appreciated

>241 Tambien: The also do an outstanding job with packaging. I used to buy from DRP back when they still published books...

>242 Undergroundman: Almost annoyingly good. Multiple feet of bubble wrap and the books also get wrapped in paper. But of course, that's the side to err on.

>243 What_What: Yep. I wish I could support them more, but they literally don't publish anymore. Still haven't received books from 2019.

>244 Undergroundman: my last years subscription was a total waste honestly. I only received books by publishers I bought from anyway, plus the Patreon benefit is a monetary liability.

Zombie numbered looks awful from the exterior. Looks like a manual for a photocopier.

I found the book somewhat interesting, but not with those illustrations.

>246 Schlermie: Ha ha, so true. The AE appears to be the one to go with, assuming one goes with any. That's been my experience with a number of recent Suntup releases, actually. It's almost like they do garish better than understated now.

The lettered edition is a project you could attempt yourself with the AE as one of your first stabs at bookbinding. I get what they're going for conceptually but it's ~1600 dollars for an apprentice level piece. Baffling.

I found my reaction to this release somewhat curious. First, I don't have a particularly high regard for Oates as a writer, and I've been more selective about my purchases lately (mostly for shelf space reasons), especially when it comes to preorders that might not arrive for a while. So I went in highly unlikely to order.

I was unfamiliar with the particular work, so I read the marketing blurb before I looked at the editions. And that made me keep going. Seemed like the kind of book that Suntup could do well. Serial killer thriller, novella. Skimming some of the pictures, I liked the art. Abstract, so I knew it would be divisive, but strong color palette, and the overall impression reminded me of the work of Russell Mills (who did the cover art for The Downward Spiral by Nine Inch Nails). So far so good. Still would be a hard sell for me, but primed to consider. Example (I actually love this one, though I bet many won't):



But then the printing: offset. And even worse, the typography is totally out of balance, the typeface is sans serif, and the paper is copy sheet bone white. Example:



So, for me at least, unsuccessful overall.

And yeah, the upper state bindings are rather underwhelming, and don't seem to have any obvious reference to the text, particularly for the numbered. Why limp leather for the lettered? I guess it is supposed to look like the point of view character's diary? It looks like a day planner with those ties. Something more reminiscent of the Mills aesthetic from the art, but expressed in the binding could have been dynamite. Imagine a lettered with a paper mache molded cover, incorporating some element from the story, each one unique (or something like that). Maybe inlaid keys, since that seems to be thematic from skimming the page examples.

Here are some Mills examples for those unfamiliar:

>250 abysswalker: I actually like that illustration as well, and think that in general the aesthetic works with the theme of the book (though some of the pieces are perhaps too abstract).

The interior design otherwise is pretty awful, and the layout seems to be an ill-advised attempt to use the Van de Graaf Canon. At least the margins appear to be doing so. It is quite inappropriate in this book to me, even moreso with that font choice. A damn shame it isn't letterpress, as Suntup had gotten hopes up with other recent releases.

>251 Shadekeep: "A damn shame it isn't letterpress, as Suntup had gotten hopes up with other recent releases."

As far as I can tell, Suntup chooses letterpress for classic books or books which are significant in some way and likely to endure. Zombie, a book I've never heard of before Suntup's edition, doesn't qualify there.

In addition, and again as far as I can tell, the majority of the Suntup fanbase doesn't really care about letterpress, and why increase the cost of a title which may not sell too well to begin with given the current market downturn?

I honestly am not familiar with the book, but I really like the art they choose for Zombie. The art reminds me of a cross between Chagall and Dali. I knew it was absolutely not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but I appreciate that Suntup takes "chances" and uses different artists with different styles.

FYI, Dark Regions is having a pretty good Black Friday sale at the moment. If you add books worth up to $700 to the cart, you can apply 50% off, including several Suntup preorders.

14 numbered states of Zombie left. Should sell out soon but I think this is the first 250 limitation Suntup book not to sell out in the first day?

>253 astropi: I love the art.

"Zombie" is an easy pass for me, but I did cave and finally order the AE of Slaughterhouse-Five.

The December book is Hannibal Rising. The illustrator is Tom Bagshaw, who also did the art for Silence of the Lambs. Very nice art imo, and the numbered state looks great & in harmony with the rest of them. The book itself is not for me though.

>258 A.Godhelm: Never read any of the Hannibal books, so I don't have a particular interest in this either. I know the book will sell instantly. For better or worse (mostly worse in my cynical mind) that's par for any book that has a famous movie or movie series :)

>259 astropi: Hannibal rising is a terrible book - substantially worse than the others in the series. FWIW I think the Zombie was the worst selling Suntup book in a long time. So either it’s the title or the Suntup market is declining even more. So I don’t think it is a given that it will sell out immediately .

>260 punkzip: You may very well be right! I was a bit surprised by Zombie as their choice for JCO. To be fair, there are only 7 copies of the numbered edition left. Only about 1/2 of the artist edition sold, but to be fair, there are a number of AEs that have been around for a long time, I suspect they slowly trickle out. Anyway, all that said, have you read all the Hannibal books? Which one is the best in your opinion?

>261 astropi: Zombie was a 250 limitation book - all of which have sold out quickly in the past - Zombie was the first not to do so and to have 7 left after a month for a 250 limitation hasn't happened before as far as I know. Also the AEs were 750 limitation so based on that the sales have been especially poor.

Silence of the Lambs in the best IMO.

Gonna pretend it was only a trilogy. Seems like a long time since I bought a Suntup. Hopefully next year has better titles.

>258 A.Godhelm: Agree on all counts!

My AE of Animal Farm arrived today.
Easily, the best edition of Animal Farm ever produced! I was curious and checked the secondary market, it looks like one copy already sold for $300 on ebay - even though significantly more expensive than retail, I would say $300 for such a beautiful edition is well worth the cost if you happen to have missed out!

>265 astropi: I passed on the AE to wait on St. James Press version (whenever that will be!).

>265 astropi: No need to pay $300! It’s still available from Subterranean Press at, I believe, publication price.

>265 astropi: I, also, was pleasantly surprised. But this is a far superior Animal Farm:

https://www.abebooks.com/signed/Animal-Farm-George-Orwell-Arion-Press/3130863119...

>268 edkennedy: Do you have both so you can do a fair comparison? If so, why exactly is it far superior? The Arion AF can be had for substantially less than $1200 in auction (I've bid on it but did not win - if I did win I would not have bought the Suntup version as I don't want 2 fine press AFs). The other edition to consider would be the upcoming SJPP AF, but I'm passing on that (even though I have 1984 on order) as I have the Suntup and it will also be a paperback sized book.

>268 edkennedy: I have to disagree based on the illustrations alone. Count me among those who hate the AP edition's illustrations. OTOH, I find the Suntup ones very appealing. Also, if you compare the AP to the numbered Suntup edition, I'm not at all sure it would suffer by comparison, and the lettered edition certainly wouldn't.

If I'm interpreting the clues correctly, it sounds like Suntup are publishing a short story by Poe (or another "haunting" 19th century writer with roughly 1250 pages of complete works), set to go on order March 16th with handset foundry type and wood engravings printed from the block.

It'll surely be hard to get, but might be Suntup's most inriguing publication to date from a Fine Press perspective.

Edited because I missed the last part, which looks to be a short story as well

>272 Objectr: Following the description of the 1250 page complete works volume, Paul wrote "Offered at the same time is a limited edition of 150 copies of one of the author's short stories."

I interpreted this to mean from Poe as well, if it's indeed his complete works. I'm not terribly intrigued by the Complete Works volume, but the handset story with wood engravings sounds special, provided it's not a retread of one of the many Poe stories that have been recently published.

The second book sounds like it might be The Godfather, the third like the complete work of Poe. No idea what the first one could be, though. Do any of you have a guess?

>274 SF-72: The Facebook group just had a member who stated it's The Magus, by John Fowles

Even Coppola disliked the book. Taking his advice, and avoiding the Godfather book.

>275 Objectr: That makes sense, and is a promising selection.

Will be interesting to see what the Poe selection is. I have room for a quality Poe volume if it's not one I already have a fine press edition of. Wouldn't mind Hop-Frog or The Pit and The Pendulum, say.

>276 Undergroundman: I think it’s really a shame that’s the title they’ve commissioned hand printed intaglios for.

Over the past two years, I’ve gone from being interested in some of Suntup’s titles but generally unimpressed with the craft, to being intrigued by a lot of the printing / binding / other techniques they’re using, but generally uninterested in the recent and upcoming titles.

>277 Shadekeep: I’ll be truly impressed if they go for a title like Hop-Frog that hasn’t even been compiled in a fine press edition that I know of!

Between the Thornwillow collection and the planned one from Conversation Tree, though, I’d probably be happy with any title that hasn’t been done in a stand-alone fine press edition.

The Magus - I have the numbered Collector, purchased for near 50% of retail on the secondary market. The Magus is a better book than the Collector, and I'm a big fan of Fowles. But I will likely buy this on the secondary market, as the chance it will lose value is high (pretty much true of most Suntup books these days, but I suspect that this may lose more value than most given the lack of enthusiasm for the Collector).

The Godfather - I have the FS edition so the AE is a non-starter. A letterpress Godfather signed by Coppola is interesting but the FS is probably enough for me. I have not read the Godfather yet, but based on reader reviews (Goodreads) it is one of the very best books Suntup has published.

Poe Collection - No interest in a 1250 page Poe collection, but I'm curious if this will be split into two volumes. The 150 copy letterpress state is intriguing, it's something smaller traditional fine press publishers might do - interesting that Suntup would try this. I don't think the 150 copy letterpress state will be that competitive given that there are no rights and the techniques used likely don't interest much of the Suntup fanbase. A maybe for me on the letterpress state.

>275 Objectr:

Thank you!

The Francis signature is very intriguing. For sure the book will be at least $1000. Still... another easy pass for me. Really starting to not look forward to Suntup announcements. I guess I will be pleasantly surprised when they announce a book I actually want.

Suntup is having another scratch-and-dent sale this Thursday. From the email:

---

I am sending you this email as a courtesy to let you know that on Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 12pm Pacific, I will be posting a wide range of "dinged" books at reduced prices. The copies being offered have certain defects and/or imperfections and are sold "as-is". Included will be Artist, Numbered and Lettered editions.

Wow, a good chunk of that went fast. Nothing I really needed, almost grabbed Moreau but in the end gave it a miss. Two editions of Imajica were up at the start, if I didn't already have it then that would have been the one.

I grabbed an Outsiders AE, which is all I was after. I figured at almost 60% off it was worth the gamble on the condition, since I already know I like the book

>285 jsg1976: Good deal, and good luck! The one I got from their previous "dinged" sale was perfect.

>284 Shadekeep: Was it a numbered Moreau? How much it went for? That was probably the only affordable book I ever wanted from the press.

>287 Lukas1990: I saw a lettered Moreau, don't remember if there was a numbered. I did get a numbered Moreau in the last sale. For reference it was $125 - however there was no slipcase, but I got a slipcase from someone for basically free.

>288 punkzip: That's a bargain! Was it dinged? Or was it just lacking a slipcase? I usually see the numbered edition go for ~300$.

>289 Lukas1990: minor ding

Nothing to tempt me this time. Whilst I was browsing though some quick head maths told me there was about $360,000 of unsold books listed. Wonder if this is one or the reasons some of the AE limitations have dropped to 750 or if that's just what the numbers were when they started planning the books before the increase?

>291 Schlermie: As I understand it limitations are being decreased to adapt to changing market conditions and I suspect that only the most obviously popular books like American Gods will see 1000 copies. I've heard that some future AEs may even be 500. If you look at Zombie there were 750 AEs and 333 copies left, so the 750 limitation was likely too large for that.

>287 Lukas1990: The Moreau was an Artist Edition, going for $85.

>292 punkzip: Makes sense, thanks for the info.

It's interesting how the latest release - The Magus - is not letterpress while the other (less famous) Fowles book - The Collector - was letterpress. The numbered is fairly expensive for a Suntup offset book but the book is fairly long.

I'm a Fowles fan and might try to buy the numbered on the secondary market as I have the Collector numbered (purchased for around 50% of retail) - I suspect it will drop in price quite a bit there.

Kind of tempted by The Magus, as I like the Tarot-esque illustrations. But not worth the asking price for me since it isn't letterpress. Others may find it worthwhile nonetheless.

I would like a nice version of The Magus and this ticks the box, however hope to find it on the secondary market at a discount

>297 DMulvee: yeah, I feel you. I think I was spoiled by the fabulous prices for Stepford and Animal Farm - both letterpress! That said, I read that Animal Farm is about 30,000 words while Magus is closer to 160,000 -- so obviously it's going to be significantly pricier.

>295 punkzip: I agree it will likely drop in price later on, but this one is just 250 copies; Collector was 350. So it may not go down that much, as there are fewer available.

>299 What_What: Also likely to be a more popular title in general. It's certainly more highly regarded. So I would expect the aftermarket on this one to be a bit tighter.

>271 NathanOv:

There's quite a few haunting 19th century writers with 1250 pages of complete works. But yes it will probably be Poe...again :p.

The Magus numbered edition is sold out. It is a very nice looking book, so congrats to those that got it!

>299 What_What: I definitely don't think it will drop to around 50% like the Collector. However, a copy was already offered for sale for $500 so I can see it dropping to $400 to $450 eventually. The AE doesn't seem to be selling that well so I might get that instead as I anticipate that will eventually be substantially less than retail.

Just received my numbered The Handmaid's Tale. My first impression is very favorable. I love the clamshell. Not sure if I've ever said those words. The book may end up being one of my favorite Suntup productions but need to spend some time with it.

A 35% off coupon code will be released (I imagine to newsletter subscribers) on 1/31 at 3 pm ET and good for 24 hours on all in-stock books.

>305 AMindForeverVoyaging: They definitely massively overproduced books based on a temporary pandemic induced boom (as well as the downturn in the economy taking effect).

>306 punkzip:
But mostly their title selection has deteriorated. I bought 10 or so of their artist editions when they were focused on horror, but none recently. They are also taking too long to get their books published after announcing them. I have adopted a personal policy of never ordering a book that isn’t ready to ship.

>307 jroger1: I don't think their title selection has deteriorated. It's really the monthly release schedule which is way too aggressive. With so many books there are bound to be choices which have limited appeal.

I don't know that there's anything in the sale that I'll pick up, but a good chance something will tempt me. I've been getting the titles I want as they come out, so I don't have much back-catalogue stuff on the wishlist, but there are some I've been on the fence about.

Stepford Wives at 35% off would be a great deal for a letterpress book. Unfortunately I don't care a whit for the title itself.

>310 punkzip: Stepford Wives is a really silly book. It reads like an obvious attempt by Levin to repeat the success of Rosemary's Baby with another high concept domestic conspiracy but this time it's somehow even less probable than satanists conjuring a living devil. Still, I guess it worked for him because it was indeed a big hit.

I might finally pull the trigger on Slaughterhouse Five. I wasn't completely sold on the illustrations but at around $100 for a new Suntup it might be too good to pass up. If only the artist edition on that one were letterpress like the other editions.

>311 NoBueno:
If being “less probable” were to disqualify a book, there would be little science fiction and no fantasy. Perhaps that’s why I’m not a fan of either genre. I do like horror, though, so I’m not entirely consistent. Levin probably didn’t intend for Stepford Wives or Rosemary’s Baby to be taken too seriously.

One-third off is a pretty good deal for readers on the fence about any of the books.

I pre-ordered Stepford Wives, but it's really "camp horror meets social commentary", rather than a pure science fiction or horror novel. Same with Rosemary's Baby, it's not a by-the-numbers Satanic novel like The Sentinel or the works of Dennis Wheatley are.

I might plump for The Magus if it's in the sale, or otherwise If You See Her. If anyone is equivocating on Blackwater, I recommend grabbing it when the coupon goes live.

To celebrate the launch of our new website, we will be offering a 35% discount on all in-stock books.

>312 jroger1: Levin specifically makes a character an ex-Disney robotics engineer and as someone who saw the Disneyland Hall of Presidents in the 1970s I just couldn't suspend that much disbelief.

>315 NoBueno: I actually think that's a pretty sly bit of backstory there - a man who works making one kind of dulcified, homogenised, roboticised family pleasure shifting career tracks into doing more of the same.

>314 What_What: With this clarification in mind, Magus is off the list. So is Stepford Wives. There are 9 titles listed as "in stock":
Johnny Got His Gun, Blackwater, The Collector, Butcher Boy, Handmaid's Tale, Dark Matter, Slaughterhouse-Five, Outsiders, Schindler's Ark.

>317 A.Godhelm: Well crapdoodle. Nuffink for me, then.

>318 Shadekeep: Same. Zero interest in the remaining books. Regret buying Handmaid's tale for full retail. Such an ugly dust jacket.

>311 NoBueno: I just received Slaughterhouse Five today, my first Suntup. I'm very impressed with it. The slipcase is significantly more sturdy than my FS/LEC/HP books, and the book cloth has an amazing shimmering/color changing effect depending on the viewing angle which could sound gimmicky but in this case is subtle and quite nice. I paid full price and feel like I got my moneys worth, I wouldn't hesitate to pick it up for 35% off.

>320 ExLibrisDavid: Thanks. I'm thinking about picking up Slaughterhouse today in the sale, particularly as I have some Suntup credit which I have to use eventually.

I got the Suntup credit as I cancelled 2 AEs which I had preordered. Speaking of which, Suntup's preorder cancellation policy is a bit absurd. I can't locate the policy on their new website but as I recall AEs preorders can only be cancelled for credit and numbered preorders cannot be cancelled at all after a certain time.

The policy is absurd because as far as I know, every other publisher allows one to cancel for full refund.

Looks like they've created a special page for the In Stock Items, which is here:
https://shop.suntup.press/collections/in-stock-editions

I'm tempted by Slaughterhouse Five and Schlinder's Ark. As an aside, it's annoying the prices aren't on the main page - you need to click through to see them.

Wow, is Blackwater gone already? Nice work, people, a good choice!

EDIT: Surprised myself, went for both Slaughterhouse-Five and The Handmaid's Tale. May end up as gifts.

>320 ExLibrisDavid: Thanks. You convinced me. Gimmicky or not, I like a subtly shimmery book so I went for it. This will be my first Suntup so I'm excited to finally see one in person.

It's a good deal, but made slightly worse by the fact that their "Media Mail" shipping rate is ridiculous. I can only assume the website wasn't adjusted to charge less for insurance based on the discount price. I bought Slaughter-House Five.

I didn’t get anything in the sale, although I considered picking up Slaughterhouse Five. I may try to find a numbered version at some point, but for now I’m going to stick with my LOA copy.

However, I did get my copy of Animal Farm finally, and am pretty impressed. Nice size for reading, lovely illustrations, and letterpress done well to boot (including two-color printing for the initial capitals for each chapter, which are not drop caps, but raised up instead - is there a phrase for that? Raised caps? Elevated caps?). The only thing I don’t love is that the slipcase, while very sturdy and well made, is almost twice as thick as the book itself.

>321 punkzip: Agree with the cancellation policy thing. I can only think they had a spur of numbered cancellations maybe. I have 2 currently on preorder. One that I tried to cancel but as I was a few days over the 14 day deadline I wasn't able to cancel it. Annoyingly it was a title that sold out pretty quickly, so had I been able to cancel it they would have no issues selling it and the credit would have been used. Ultimately they have lost out as I haven't bought the books I would have used the credit on. Also the one that I wanted to cancel has been considerably delayed.

>327 Schlermie: I think the idea is that, with their frequent release schedule, they don't want anyone buying just for rights to the next book and then cancelling.

I have heard of them granting cancellations on a case-by-case basis though, and imagine they might do so if it was a one-off purchase for an in-demand title and you're frustrated with the delays.

The sale's really moving those copies. Handmaid's Tale down to 3 copies.

The sale seems to be doing the trick alright. Blackwater, The Handmaid's Tale, and the Numbered Edition of The Collector are all gone, and Slaughterhouse-Five has shifted around 100 copies and is getting low too.

I was tempted by The Collector (numbered), but it's still $400+ after taxes and shipping and I have other priorities. Still, congrats to all that managed to find a wonderful deal!

Slaughterhouse-Five is sold out as well, remaining stock is down to a few titles now.

Glad to see the sale went well as I'm sure it will have helped cash flow with books being worked on so far in advance. Although it may stop me from pre-ordering any AEs for a while as I might wait for the next 35% off sale and pick them up then.

That's interesting, there are 5 copies of the Slaughterhouse-Five AE back in stock, and they are marked down ($155 to $115). Perhaps failed or cancelled transactions from the sale.

>334 Shadekeep: Looks like one Animal Farm too (at regular price).

So seems like The Godfather numbered and letter will be signed by Coppola. Expecting this to be an expensive one! Poe also confirmed for March.

>336 Schlermie: Yup, I'm sure a bunch will show up on the secondary market for 3-5 times original price :/

The Godfather AE is up for pre-order now. Unlike the forthcoming Numbered and Lettered editions, this one is not letterpress nor is it signed by Coppola. I do like the artwork in this one, not sure if I'd enjoy the novel itself or not.

One of the best releases from Suntup quality-wise? Letterpress on pretty good paper, nice bindings, 14, not the usual 6, illustrations, signed by the famuos Coppola.

>338 Shadekeep: I also like the art, more than on a lot of other Suntup releases.

I read the novel years ago and it was sort of trashy compared to Coppola's film adaptation. There's this one subplot in particular about one of Sonny Corleone's girlfriends that has almost no relation to the main plot and seems to exist solely to indulge some weird gynecological fetish of Puzo's.

It's not something I need to own or want to reread. If I want The Godfather I'd rather watch the movie again.

>340 NoBueno: Yah, if the AE was letterpress I'd probably pick it up just for that aspect, plus the illustrations. But since only the higher tiers are letterpress, and they are also the ones signed by Coppola, they are going to be speculator gold. I doubt they'll be up long enough for most of us to buy it, and probably will crash the website.

>340 NoBueno: “I read the novel years ago and it was sort of trashy compared to Coppola's film adaptation.”

Maybe, but Puzo wrote the screenplays for Godfather 1 & 2, winning an Oscar for both.

As others have remarked, this is one of Suntup’s best-illustrated books.

$795 for a Coppola is really cheap. Even Friedkin was $1000. Just can't pull the trigger, because of the book itself. Gross.

>341 Shadekeep: I doubt the lettered edition will be speculator gold. It's priced at $6,500 from Suntup. I can't imagine there's much meat on the bone there, but if there is I'll likely sell my copy.

Did anyone else notice the rather awkward anatomy in some of those illustrations? The most extreme example is the abnormally long left arm of the man in the bed.

As it is, I already have the edition by Folio Society, where I definitely prefer the illustrations, so I won't get this one. With better illustrations I would have.

But yes, the copies signed by Coppola will definitely be in demand.

>344 Objectr: Normally I'd be inclined to agree, but I've seen madness before. This title in particular has a kind of cachet were I could see people throwing big bucks at it, even those who don't normally collect books. You may be right and it may not happen, but if it's going to happen with a Suntup volume, this could easily be the one.

Why the interest in Coppola’s signature? He is a fine filmmaker, but he hasn’t written any books that I know of.

>347 jroger1:

It's a cult film based on this novel and he was the director. That would make it collectable in film fan circles.

>347 jroger1: A signature is often considered "the mark of the artist", regardless of their particular artform, and as such is seen as having intrinsic worth to some collectors. Given that Coppola is connected to a highly esteemed version of the work, his signature isn't an arbitrary inclusion, even if it's not a purely literary connection.

EDIT: Cross-posted with SF-72.

The illustrations are also very unappealing. Another easy pass. Will probably pick up Poe though.

Only 13 lettered copies left. Wow!

I think the illustrations are great. I’m also pleased to see they’ll be tipped in as opposed to being printed on the same paper as the text.

I think this looks sublime, and I'm sure it will sell out quickly. If anyone is on the fence regarding the AE I do recommend purchasing it soon. Looks like they're down to 228 copies already. I suspect, granted I'm not clairvoyant, nevertheless I wouldn't be surprised if this sells out tomorrow.

>353 astropi: I already have the FS edition and don't want another copy. But it's interesting how even standard FS books are quite expensive in relative terms right now compared to Suntup AEs. The FS Godfather is $140 and is not a limited edition and has no signatures. The Suntup is $150, and is limited and has a dustjacket and signatures (as well as having a better slipcase). So it's definitely preferable to the FS edition, unless you like the FS art a lot more.

>354 punkzip: Looks like the FS edition is £90.00 which is about $108 USD. At $140 USD, the FS is charging USA customers about 25% more -- that just rubs me the wrong way. That said, the FS illustrations are nice, but I definitely prefer the Suntup illustrations.

Given the fact that prices are ostensibly the same, but that the Suntup edition is signed, limited, slipcase, dust jacket... well, seems clear to me that Suntup is making an offer you can't refuse :D

I don't really understand why Suntup insists on printing these enormous texts in one volume. Aside from being aesthetically ... weird, I fear for their spines in the long run.

>357 gmacaree: The LEC, Easton, Folio, have all published books that are "massive" and they (spine and all) seem to hold up perfectly decades later. If the quality of the binding is good, which it certainly will be, and the books are properly taken care of, then there shouldn't be any problem. That said, I can certainly understand where you're coming from -- I also think in many instances it's more comfortable to break-up a large work. However, in essence that will greatly increase the cost because now two volumes need to be bound. I imagine that would easily add hundreds of dollars, and I doubt most patrons would want that added cost. Lastly, it really looks like the only "enormous" edition is the lettered edition, so if you're aiming for a numbered or AE fear not :)

Looking ahead to next month, any guesses on which Poe story is getting the stand alone treatment in that limited edition letterpress volume?

>358 astropi: Just a reflection on the preliminary mockups; sometimes they can be a bit misleading. The Imajica numbered edition looked like a reasonably thick (for such a big book) volume in the prelims, but in binding it turned out almost comically huge (arguably ruining the spine design a bit because it looks disproportionate).

Regarding the illustrations they have a weird distorted perspective and the scale seems very off to my eye, I think FS edition comes out well ahead (compared to the AE of course).

>354 punkzip: I see it the other way around. FS Godfather shipped to me here in the UK was £94. Cheapest I can get the Suntup AE delivered to me is about £170 and that is with the incredibly slow 30 day plus shipping. If I want it shipping at a more reasonable speed it's about £200. Granted the expensive shipping (50% of the cost of the book for a reasonable shipping speed) is completely out of Suntup's control. But as tempted as I've been it's why I'm just sticking with my FS as to me, as nice as it is, it's not £170-£200 nice, but that's perhaps more about my own personal financial viewpoint than the book.

>361 Schlermie: It’s not really seeing it the other way around. The FS books are relatively poor value compared to Suntup due to the exchange rate premium plus shipping. That’s just how it is.

While FS books are much cheaper for UK residents.

>353 astropi: Indeed clairvoyant you are not. There are still 198 copies left today.

>363 filox: Still plenty of time for him to be proven right :). The day’s just starting over in my neck of the woods.

The typical pattern for Suntup AEs is to sell about two-thirds of the limitation the first 24 hours and then stay close to that level for weeks or sometimes months. Most people who want one have ordered it by now.

I was lucky enough to obtain one of the remarqued and signed copies from FS, and I rarely buy two copies of the same title. But I might make an exception in this case, because I really like the art in both editions.

>362 What_What: well yeah, that's exactly my point really.

>365 jroger1: This is a lot like those DC/Marvel action figures that sell a lot when first announced, and than are put on clearance after everyone who really wanted one bought them at retail.

>365 jroger1: I think that's the typical pattern for all releases - not just Suntup. The vast majority of sales will come in the first 24 hours, and slow down a lot after that.

Numbered Edition of The Godfather sold out in less than an hour. I just now checked, so it may have been even faster.

>369 Shadekeep: 59 numbereds went to public sale. They sold out in less than 4 minutes.

>370 SDB2012: Wow, even better than I expected.

>370 SDB2012: Shocked that so many were available for a Coppola. Starting to think you will be able to get them close to retail for a limited time from sellers just wanting to stay on the "train."

>372 Undergroundman: Isn’t your statement contradictory? So many went public specifically because people didn’t want to buy them to stay on the train. So how would that result in many going for close to retail later on?

>373 What_What: 300 did buy. For sure some of those 300 only bought to stay on the train.

>372 Undergroundman: I'd guess some will be available, but I've been wrong about demand for many of the Suntup Editions. I'm looking forward to seeing the Poe. I think that's going to be popular even though there are so many alternatives.

>374 Undergroundman: Well yes, sure. But the way you phrased your earlier statement was confusing.

Either way, I don’t think very many will be available; as so many skipped, it feels like those that did buy, bought it to keep.

>376 What_What: Yeah, I could of worded a bit better.

I've watched the Godfather movies several times (I and II are among my favourites ever), but haven't read the novel yet. So, with the numbered edition printed letterpress with 14 tipped in illustrations and signed by Coppola, I just couldn't avoid ordering it ;)

If I remember correctly, the singer Johnny Fontaine is a bigger part in the book. The gynaecologist subplot was rightly left out of the film and really adds nothing to the book.

I wonder if we might see a further reduction in AE limitations in the future looking at recent numbers. Maybe a reduction to 500 units, with 750 units on certain titles?

>380 Schlermie: I've wondered the same but saw someone else mention that this might not be a viable option due to loss of economies of scale. But it does seem like something's gotta give whether it's smaller runs or less frequent releases. At this point many customers have gotten wise to the fact that almost every Suntup book that gets released can be bought on the secondary market at a discount - still plenty of buyers that for whatever reason are deciding rent these books instead of keeping them. Between that & Suntup's recent sale I can't imagine buying one of their books at list price again.

>381 stumguy: "still plenty of buyers that for whatever reason are deciding rent these books instead of keeping them. "

Selling collectible books for discounts (often major discounts of 1/2 or 2/3 of the price) soon after purchasing them at retail is very difficult to explain rationally. If you are a long-term collector who actually wants the books, you wouldn't sell. If you are a speculator you figured out that the Suntup market has crashed a while ago. I can understand that people got caught up in the FOMO hype at the peak of the market and want to get rid of books they actually didn't want, but I can't imagine that newer books will continue to sell at discounts soon after being available for much longer as all the speculators and FOMO buyers will have split.

The core problem is that Suntup just publishes too many books, devaluing most of them except for the most famous. Probably the easiest solution is to go to an every other month release schedule.

I'm not sure there's any "problem" per se. If you look at very fast selling Suntup editions, in nearly every case the Artist Edition still took a few days to sell out. Right now, there are 115 copies of the Godfather Artist Edition for sale. So 635 sold, and in my opinion they sold decently quickly, albeit not "immediately". Sounds like a win to me! I'm sure sooner or later it will sell out, that's a given. Whether it's in the next couple of months or a year I do not know, but it will sell out. For the most part, I think the main deciding factor is how well known the work is. For instance, Jaws and Hannibal sold out so quickly because they are pop-culture icons. If Suntup publishes another Stephen King work, they could probably list 3000 copies of the Artist Edition and 3000 copies of the numbered and it would sell out before you could say "give me a moment"! That's my take, and honestly, when all is said and done, I'm glad there's less FOMO flying around, it's good for all of us that are collectors :)
And even so, the numbered Godfather, which I was really hoping to get, sold out in 5 minutes or less (I did not get there quick enough). Demand is still there, and I'm excited about Suntup's upcoming releases, especially about American Gods - and I think having a pre-announcement and waitlist for such popular works is a great idea.

>382 punkzip: "The core problem is that Suntup just publishes too many books, devaluing most of them except for the most famous. Probably the easiest solution is to go to an every other month release schedule."

Which would instantly cut Suntup's revenue just about in half. I doubt they would find this to be an "easy" solution.

>383 astropi: Yeah that's the thing. Certain titles do well enough, if not quite as well as others in the past. Some titles could do much bigger numbers but there have been and will probably continue to be titles where the AE is going to hang around in the warehouse for quite some time and I'm thinking there will probably be considerably more titles like that than ones that will fly off the shelves going forward. I remember The Exorcist set a record with the AE gone incredibly quick. But this was at the height of the FOMO and people thinking they could flip every book for a profit and I'm betting quite a few people bought multiple copies when they saw it was selling so fast and I doubt many of them sold theirs for much if anything above list

>385 Schlermie: Agreed. I think the sales for the Godfather have actually been surprisingly unimpressive by Suntup standards. It has both big name recognition and the lower 750 limitation - historically these books have always been 1 or 2 day sellouts for them. Yes, it will sell out eventually but when a book like this hangs around for months how long will ~350 copies of The Magus hang around at a $175 price point? That one could linger for a couple of years. A departure from quick sellouts doesn't mean they are unsuccessful, but I do think more changes could be coming in addition to the increasingly frequent 750/250 limitations. It'll be interesting to watch.

Also makes me wonder how hard of a decision it would be have a sale when you sell this kind of product. With such a small and attentive customer base, how much do you have to worry about devaluing your brand? With this last sale Paul made of point of saying it was a one time thing to celebrate their newly designed website - but if unsold copies keep piling up I'm not sure they'd have another choice but to slash prices again.

>386 stumguy:
Suntup is competing directly with Folio Society’s edition of Godfather, which is also beautifully illustrated and available at about the same price as the AE.

>386 stumguy: Yep, it may have 100% have been a one off deal but regardless I bet it was also a welcome boost to cash flow for the business. Especially with so many books being worked on so far in advance. I mean a fair chunk is brought in from the lettered and numbered states that's for sure. But if your cash flow plan was based on selling out every AE fairly quickly as was once the case, some adjustments might have to be made. There is still currently about $370,000 of unsold stock available in the store, that's after the hugely successful blow out sale. I hope I'm proven wrong but I can see the complete works of Poe adding to that number in a few weeks. I've met Paul a couple of times and he's a very smart and savvy cookie so I'm sure he knows what's best for his business.

Considering the number of copies of The Outsiders or Zombie sitting ready to ship with few takers I would expect more sales in the future.

IMO neither of those had very strong illustrations, though, so maybe with more appealing illustrations future releases might move faster.

>386 stumguy: Suntup will have a "dinged" sale to save face, or unload them cheaper to Subpress, Camelot Books, and Dark Regions Press. Probably more of warehousing issue with them, and they not wanting to store books for years.

>386 stumguy: If lots of books are still around near the end of the year, they could always decide to launch a new website.

>389 NoBueno:

There have been several recent books that I or also a friend of mine would have bought with better illustrations. Several of my early Suntup books were bought only because those were so strong when I already had other editions. That definitely didn't happen with the Godfather where a lot of illustrations were simply poor quality with regard to limbs of the wrong length, at the wrong angle etc..

Although I don't plan to purchase the Poe (takes up too much shelf space), the AE is a good value for $150.

The lettered on the other hand - close to $6000 for an offset public domain book...

I had to purchase the Poe. It's just too gorgeous! The artist edition, of course.

>393 punkzip: It is chonky for sure but I own no other Poe so I went for the AE and The Tell Tale Heart letterpress (I liked the block print).

So now I'll have all the Poe.

Edit - The letterpress already sold out - that was quick.

I was happy to snag a copy of The Tell-Tale Heart! Overall, a very simple presentation, but something new for Suntup with handset type from a very talented printer.

>393 punkzip: This may be the edition to end my lettered train run to be honest. Last two books almost $13,000 with this one being printed offset (not to mention the current economy) -- yikes. I've enjoyed almost every thing Paul has put out, but the prices seem rather reckless and with little correlation to what's actually being published.

If the Poe were letterpress then perhaps. But since it reproduces the Library of America edition and I'm ambivalent about the illustrations, it's a pass from me. I do collect Poe, but largely in letterpress. Sorry I missed Tell-Tale Heart in that regard.

Thank God for Centipede Press, and their willingness to do 2 volume collections. Was looking forward to this, but don't like fatsos.

I like it, but it looks very uncomfortable to hold and read.

>397 Objectr: Perhaps the binding and hand tooling with gold is what put it in the $6000 range. But I think that the lettered editions sell primarily on rights so Paul could probably charge an arbitrary amount and they would still sell. However, I think all of the lettered editions have shown up on the secondary market (which makes rights less relevant), in most cases at a discount - in some cases, a 4 figure discount compared to retail - suggesting that if rights were not in play they would sell rather poorly at the prices being charged. In particular, I doubt that the non-famous lettered books would sell well at all without rights in play.

The AE does seem like good value. Was expecting it to be pushing the $180-$200 range. A pass for me though as just don't need a nice version of Poe personally.

>400 MobyRichard: Yeah, I heard people saying Suntup's Imajica was unwieldy at 1000 pages & this one clocks in at 1300. Ginormous.

>403 stumguy: It is. Imajica would have worked better as two volumes; as it stands it's about the thickest book in my collection that I can handle.

>403 stumguy:
>404 Shadekeep:

It will really depend on whether it opens and lays out flat.

>403 stumguy: the paper for Poe is lighter which may help the bulk. Having said that Imajica has lost about 50% of its value on the secondary market - possibly in part due to its bulk - and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Poe has a similar fate.

>397 Objectr: congrats on getting the lettered editions, I think they're great, wish I could have afforded them :)
If you don't mind me asking -- which edition(s) is your favorite and why? Which editions are disappointing? I don't know how long you have been collecting them, but is there an author you hope that Suntup will publish? Is that reason enough to keep the rights going...

I've been looking for a nice edition of Poe's stories, so the artist edition seems to be a good fit at that price - cool dust jacket, nice slipcase, illustrations, all the stories and poems, etc. For the numbered, it seems like the only major difference is the Japanese cloth - everything from the offset printing and features seem to be the same from the description provided. Like others have mentioned before, the lettered edition is nice, but very expensive in a time when the economy is unstable and Suntup lettered editions routinely sell at list or discounted at the secondary market. The small wait from ordering to shipping is nice though.

The Poe artist edition and numbered edition are sold out and the lettered edition is by lottery only, proving that a well-chosen and well-presented classic can still outsell most contemporary fiction. Take note Folio Society.

>409 jroger1: As long as they make it a multi-volume edition :)

>410 gmacaree:
A 2-volume edition would certainly be easier to handle but would cost almost twice as much. A difficult decision. The FS group is complaining about the cost of single volumes.

Clues dropped in the latest newsletter.

Forthcoming book for April:

Our second publication by this author, we cannot tell you what his name is.

Forthcoming book for May:

This iconic horror novel took the world by storm when it was first published in the 1970s with its claims to be based on a true story. In the years since, its power to haunt has endured with readers remaining fascinated by the novel.

Forthcoming book for June:

One of the most influential horror novels of the 20th century, this book became a pop culture phenomenon. The novel spawned sequels, a cinematic masterpiece and a horror franchise, but it is this original work of literary genius that is the mother of them all.

My immediate guess for May is The Amityville Horror, which is actually quite a fun read. I'll likely get this if it's correct.

EDIT: I would absolutely love for the June book to be Clive Barker's The Hellbound Heart. But it's more the film than the novel that was big in the popular conscience at the time.

>412 Shadekeep: My first thought for May was the Amityville Horror too, so hopefully that bodes well for your purchase. I'm hopeful April may be another Vonnegut (if it's done well - I really like the design/artwork for Slaughterhouse-Five and had been looking for a nice copy, so I picked up the AE). But without checking the back-catalogue, I think there's probably several others that could fit.

>412 Shadekeep: Second publication but they can't say his name? Odd description. Could it be King, they only did Misery of his so far right? I'm not sure why you'd want to avoid hyping it up though.
Conversely for the June book, if it were Barker wouldn't they mention they've published him before? Also Hellbound Heart is technically a novella and not a novel. I'd definitely order if it is Barker though.
Amityville sounds on the money.

>414 A.Godhelm: Just occurred to me that April could be Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said. I believe they've only done PKD once before (A Scanner Darkly), and that book could fit the 'name' clue too.

The newsletter also says that two of the three selections were frequently named in Suntup’s 2021 survey. My recollection is that the survey specifically requested non-Stephen King titles. In any case, a King novel would rate a higher AE limitation than 750.

The June selection, on the other hand, raises the limitation to 1,000, suggesting that it is still very popular. Psycho comes to mind, but it could be a dozen others.

My money's on The Hellbound Heart for June - I don't think omitting the fact that they've published Barker before necessarily rules it out - they may just not have wanted to give too much away with the clue or make things too obvious, especially since the clue already provides a lot of other detail. And my reading of 'became a pop culture phenomenon' is that it's the film, franchise etc that it inspired, that constitute the 'pop culture phenomenon', and not necessarily the book in and of itself. So I think it's still a solid candidate.

>414 A.Godhelm: Yah, it is a novella, so another likely strike against it. And a good point that it probably is a new author to the stable, since they were at pains to mention previously publishing one of them. I was looking at their author list to get an idea for April and ran across Barker, and that prompted my wishful thinking for June.

It would be great if agitationalporcelain is correct about it being PKD. I'd also love for Suntup to pick up some J.G. Ballard eventually, ideally Concrete Island or High-Rise.

EDIT: Thanks >417 agitationalporcelain: for giving me renewed hope!

>418 Shadekeep: Haha, hope it's not false hope. I was just rethinking and started leaning towards Psycho as per >416 jroger1:. Perhaps a film like Psycho would be more likely to be thought of as a "cinematic masterpiece" than Hellraiser? (Without wishing to throw any shade on the latter.) It was just the franchise bit that initially made me doubt it would be Psycho, but then again, I guess the Bates Motel series could be considered a franchise...

We shall see come June, I suppose! :)

Ok, so all three are horror and for April it's the second release from Suntup and it's a male author. Wild guess - The Hunger by Whitley Strieber.

If it ends up being Ray Bradbury then I hope it's not "Something Wicked This Way Comes" seeing as that has been done by a couple other publishers.

>420 NoBueno: Was it mentioned somewhere that April is also a horror? I didn't spot that in the newsletter.

>414 A.Godhelm: "Also Hellbound Heart is technically a novella..."

The email says all editions are letterpress - being a novella would make a letterpress AE more likely.

>421 agitationalporcelain: At the very end it says all three are horror.

>423 NoBueno: You're quite right! Totally missed that bit. Hmm, guess no Vonnegut for me then, and way off with my PKD guess :(

Wonder if April could be another Richard Matheson, and the 'can't tell you his name' clue is a reference to the occasions he's been credited or published as Logan Swanson? Could be Earthbound, maybe.

>422 NoBueno: Good point. That would be extremely cool. Animal Farm was 176 pages and had a letterpress AE. Stepford Wives was 162 pages. Hellbound Heart has 164-186 pages depending on the edition so definitely in the ballpark.

The Hellbound Heart also has a sequel book - The Scarlet Gospels - and multiple graphic novels set in the same universe, in case the clue is referring to sequels beyond the movies.

On the flipside, I just noticed this: "The Lettered and Numbered editions are signed by the author of the introduction and the artist." So not signed by the author, ergo the author either turned them down or is dead. I have to think that Barker would have signed, so perhaps a dead author after all, like Bloch.

>427 Shadekeep: That's a good spot. Barker signed the Lettered and Numbered editions of Imajica so would be strange not to do so for this publication. Psycho has a comparable page count I believe, so could still be an equally-likely contender for a letterpress AE as The Hellbound Heart.

Clive Barker is the artist, so no need to mention the author signed. As far as the others... PKD, and Amityville Horror. Honestly would only be looking forward to the Clive book if it is indeed Hellbound.

>429 Undergroundman: I suppose that's a third possibility, that the author and artist are one and the same. There's an additional artist involved in the AE, as attested by this: "The Artist edition is signed by the artist of the interior illustrations, as well as the artist who created a special painting for the dust jacket."

Barker does have a ton of pre-existing art that would work for the interior, and they may have adapted his stuff for the Numbered/Lettered covers, so it's still feasible (if a bit tricksy in the phrasing of the clue). If so, then the main downside for me is that I probably won't be able to land a spot for a Numbered/Lettered edition. Will still be happy with an AE regardless, but I have the feeling I would covet mightily the high-tier versions of this.

>430 Shadekeep: At this point the "clues" have to be more elaborate. We are too good.

>431 Undergroundman: We don't know if we're right, yet! ;)

>432 agitationalporcelain: Aye, I'm a dab hand at wrong calls, so I've lots of hope but little confidence. Though if I'm wrong about The Amityville Horror, I should quit playing altogether! :D

>433 Shadekeep: Well if you're wrong about Amityville, then so am I, and I've got no plans to stop 😆

My guess for the April book is Legion by William Peter Blatty.

>435 Sean_Ford: That's a sensible guess. The Ninth Configuration from him would be an interesting choice as well, but probably just that little bit too obscure.

>436 Shadekeep: Agree, but was it really a book that people were clamoring for?

>437 Undergroundman: Legion? I'd be surprised if so. Though I did just rewatch the movie a week or so ago, oddly enough. I don't think the book has enough following to make it a top pick, but Suntup doesn't always go the way I'd expect. They did do The Collector ahead of the better (and better known) book The Magus after all, so I could see them doing Legion as well on those grounds. No idea why they'd feel the need to keep the author secret in that case, unless it's just to provoke interest and speculation.

>438 Shadekeep: Guessing the next book would be way too easy to ID, so we got no clues. Again, I thought it was a book that was heavily requested from the survey? I'd be shocked if Legion was a book that was highly requested.

>439 Undergroundman:
According to the email, two of the three books were heavily requested on the survey. I’m betting on Amityville and Psycho, but I don’t have any idea about April’s selection.

>440 jroger1: Got it. Thought it was all 3.

Pretty sure Legion was on my survey response and certain Amityville was.

Omen numbered on the way. I kind of understand why but must admit I get a little bit irked when my shipping gets downgraded because of, I assume, price changes. So when I ordered this, because I am impatient/excited and because I want to reduce the amount of time the book is knocking around between the US and Europe I picked and paid for the 2 day shipping UPS International express at the cost of of about $100. Now it's been shipped it's actually been send by Fed Ex International Economy with a ship time of about 5-7 days and about $25 less than I paid for shipping. I'm assuming its because the UPS cost has increased since it was orders about a year ago, and this is the closest priced option available. I've noticed it happen with a coupe other preorders too. We're only talking about 4-5 days longer to wait and can understand a publisher not wanting to swallow the increase in cost, but a tad annoying when I could have chosen the 5-7 day shipping for about $30 less when I ordered. First World problems for the impatient I guess!

>443 Schlermie: I'd complain if I were in your shoes - if you paid for 2 day shipping there's no excuse for them using a cheaper option. May have been a simple mistake, and Suntup support is generally regarded as top notch so I'd expect they'll refund you the difference. If nothing else it may help prevent this from happening again for you or other customers.

>443 Schlermie: Email them. That's absurd on their part.

>443 Schlermie: At a bare minimum, you're owed the difference between the two shipping options.

Coming later this week, the reveal of the "author who must not be named" from the April clue. Finalise your bets!

Kudos to the folks who guessed Legion, that is indeed the book.

https://suntup.press/legion/

Pretty lame that Legion is superior to The Exorcist in terms of design. The Exorcist was boring looking in comparison.

>449 Undergroundman: This is a nice looking book, I'd probably get it if I already had The Exorcist. I especially dig that Dorfner binding on the Lettered Edition.

Love the illustrations.

Never got around to getting Suntup's The Exorcist and only vaguely remember the Exorcist III movie but this is priced fairly and I really love the illustrations on this one, so maybe.

Anyone read it? Is it any good?

Initial sales are pretty brisk, but they usually are on release day. Seems to have shifted around 300 copies between the times I checked. Like most Suntup AEs I suspect it will either sell out this week or there will be about 200 that linger for a while.

>452 NoBueno: Have to agree, the illustrations are top-notch! Looks to be inspired by Hieronymus Bosch. I never read Legion, although I did read The Exorcist and was not particularly impressed - but, I saw the movie far before reading the book and the movie is such a terrifying classic that perhaps it made the book seem rather dull in comparison.

I've read it. A long time ago now, but if I remember rightly it felt more like a supernatural detective story than a true horror. I enjoyed it

>452 NoBueno: The Exorcist is the better book by far, but Legion is good for being a sequel. It's Blatty's use of language that elevates the material a cut above the norm of the genre, as well as the long stretches of questioning and self-examination about moral and philosophical matters across both novels. They're both worth consideration even if you've seen the movies IMO, as neither can dig into the internal conflicts as well as a novel can (film is better for spinning heads and pea soup fountains).

>456 A.Godhelm: .. pea soup fountain ?

Paul Suntup revealed in an interview that The Last Unicorn is in the pipeline: "We are working on The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle with art by Tom Kidd. It’s a letterpress edition and incorporates some hand calligraphy with the text."

>458 AMindForeverVoyaging: That's going to be a must-get for me, doubly so as a letterpress edition.

>458 AMindForeverVoyaging:

Thank you for that information.

I'd enjoy an illustrated edition of The Last Unicorn a lot, but from what I've seen online, Tom Kidd holds less appeal than other potential artists would for me. I'll have to see what it looks like, but am definitely tempted.

>458 AMindForeverVoyaging: Definitely going to keep an eye out for that one!

Would it be safe to sat the secondary market is probably the worst it's ever been? Noticed the other day AEs selling for $50, some numbered at close to 50% of list price. People struggling to sell the The Omen numbered that sold out even at like $350. I've seen a few sales that seem to be to collectors who gave recently discovered Suntup trying to add a few of the older titles. What I don't quite understand is people who have bought recent AEs trying to sell at least or slightly below straight away. Buyers remorse maybe? I'm interested in Legion and Amityville, but at the moment I don't see the point in buying directly from Suntup and makes more sense to wait for the inevitable sales on the secondary.

>462 Schlermie: Some of that might be due to the continuing wind-down of speculation in Suntup titles. While I wasn't buying from the press during Covid lockdown, I understand that they enjoyed great popularity at that time and titles sold out rapidly, then turned around to command high prices. Possibly there is still a measure of this playing out.

One other factor, though probably lesser, is that they have had a couple "scratch and dent" sales lately with the books at very good prices. I picked up some titles brand new that were commanding high after-market prices, and they were free from defects. Granted the sale included such small quantities that it probably didn't decrease demand by much, but that may still have had some input into depressing prices.

For myself I don't buy Suntup titles as an investment, but to own and read and enjoy myself. So I'm not affected by any of this calculus, and if a title comes out that I want and I think is fairly priced, I'll buy it. I'm planning on getting The Amityville Horror if that turns out to be the title we expect. I'll be getting the AE version as usual, only a couple of their titles have appealed to me at the higher tiers, and those were long sold out before I ever started buying from them. If the prediction about The Hellbound Heart being a forthcoming title is correct, that is most likely the first one I'll seek above the AE tier.

>462 Schlermie: Subpress recently had a fire sale of their books. I think it depends on the title with Suntup. Honestly, I think it's buyers market right now in general. I personally have zero interest in the cheap secondary Suntups like the entire Ania Ahlborn titles.

Yeah I've never bought any as an Investment. I admit at one point I probably got caught up in the hype and FOMO and bought a couple of AEs and a couple of apparently dinged (though I could see nothing wrong with them) that in hindsight I didn't particularly care about. For example I have AEs or Wolfen, Replay, The Auctioneer, The Collector, Guests and Johnny numbered that I'm not particularly fussed about but for what you could actually sell them for I might as well just hold on to them. In fact out of the many I've got the ones I'm only really bothered about having are my LTROI numbered and AE, Exorcist AE (though I prefer my FS), Jaws and The Omen. As I said I might pick up a Legion and Amityville but confident I can pick them up for a decent chunk on the secondary market at some point.

I'm starting to get the feeling Michael Blatty is lonely.

>466 Schlermie: I’ve had to turn notifications off for the group. From the incessant posting to the childish remarks about other authors - I’ll unmute when the next release rolls around.

The Suntup FB group has turned into Blatty’s blog.

>467 Objectr: Don't have Facebook. What exactly is he saying? If it's that bad... why the hell would Suntup have anything to do with him? Let alone actually sign books.

>470 Undergroundman: He posts non-stop. Probably 3+ times a day since the release of Legion. Apparently at some point Stephen King made a comment about his father's writing, or The Excorcist, and it rubbed him the wrong way. There have been a couple posts/comments he's made as to King's accolades (or lack thereof) that have been fairly snide to say the least. It's just a lot overall.

>470 Undergroundman: I doubt Paul could have predicted Michael’s behavior on the FB group when he signed the deal with him, but if Paul monitors the group (and I’m sure he does) I imagine he’s pretty embarrassed. It is no way for a contributor to be conducting himself.

Interestingly, no posts from Michael today for the first time since Legion was announced. I’m wondering if someone (a moderator, or maybe Paul himself) said something to him. There was one post yesterday that was particularly petty, bashing another group member for commenting on one of Michael’s many posts that he was spamming the page. That post was only up for about 10 minutes before it was swiftly removed. I suspect Michael deleted it himself when it didn’t garner the support he was expecting.

Thanks

>472 Nightcrawl: I pulled the page up out of curiosity and you spoke too soon. Haha.

>470 Undergroundman: It's not that he's saying much bad per se, it's just multiple posts each day. All just generally about his dad or the exorcist. You know in someways it's interesting stuff, but it's just not the place for it. If it was anyone else you know the admins would be all over it. I think he's basically lapping up the attention.

>471 Objectr: To be fair, Stephen King seems like a bit of a jerk.

"Stephen King: A thing is better looking when it's useful and... you know something you just put up on the shelf to just look at it. Isn't that weird?

I mean... the worst one in a way and I don't... this guy is gonna read this and be so bummed. This guy Jared Walters did Salem's Lot in a limited. He basically fucking wore me down because he would come back every six months or so and say, "Please, please, please, please" and I'm very vulnerable to that if people, I mean, if he'd come to me and said that he wanted to do a Dollar Baby I would say, "Yes" immediately but this guy wants to do this big huge book with this, I don't know, incredible binding done in some endangered species or something and finally the books come out and people like Frank Darabont and other collectors just loved that book and he wants to do The Shining next and so far I've just told him, "No". Because it'd be another book like Salem's Lot. It'll weigh twenty pounds, and people will put it on their shelf and look at it and they won't actually read it."

Copied from Lilja's Library: https://www.liljas-library.com/showinterview.php?id=36

>466 Schlermie: I only saw a few of his posts (I don't use Facebook too regularly) but I thought he came across well in what I read - however I did only see a few!

Looks like Blatty finally wore out his welcome and got his hand smacked by one of the admins:

"Just one week now until announcement of the next Suntup Edition and I had determined from my first posts here last month to cease posting a week before the reveal. I want to thank Kristopher for allowing me to post here as often as I have and for his friendly notices when he felt things starting to spin out of control!"

Finally the page can revert back to its natural state of endless for sale postings from Kris.

>478 stumguy:

And the more recent phenomenon of “for sale - PRICE REDUCED!!”

>479 Tambien: Yeah, but it makes collectors happy to buy books. Too bad you’re annoyed by it.

>480 What_What:

I’m not mad about it. I’m one of the people that buys them. I just think it’s funny

Looks like my previous estimation that around 200 copies of Legion would remain for sale after the original furor was correct. The AE is currently listed at 195 in stock.

Next release is due this Thursday. Personally still hoping for The Amityville Horror.

>482 Shadekeep: At this point it I think everyone is assuming Amityville Horror then Psycho next month.

Personally, I would like to see the next round of announcements after that be something that isn't as closely tied to a horror movie franchise. Lately it has been too many expensive redos of titles from an airport bookshop horror novel section circa 1983.

>483 NoBueno: Amityville is definitely a pulp read compared to great horror literature. But it does seem to fall into Suntup's current niche, following on from titles like The Stepford Wives. Which, full disclosure, I also bought.

As for June, I'm personally still holding out hope it will be The Hellbound Heart. But I'm also resigned that it most likely isn't.

>483 NoBueno:

Neil Gaiman's American Gods is due sometime, probably this year, and The Last Unicorn has been mentioned. Those would certainly be a change in direction, and one I'd also appreciate. On the other hand, It's been good for my finances that all these horror novels have been published since they're really not my cup of tea. ;-)

>484 Shadekeep: If I’m not mistaken, I believe Paul said during one of his livestreams that Hellbound Heart won’t happen until 2024 at the earliest.

>486 Nightcrawl: Thanks for the info. As long as it happens at some point I'll be happy.

I finally read Hellbound Heart a few weeks ago when we were first all speculating about a Suntup release. It is so very, very close to the movie version that if you see (or read) one of the versions it makes the other completely redundant. I don't know if I need the book since I have the blu ray, but will be interested in how Suntup handles the illustrations.

>488 NoBueno: I would like to see Barker's own illustrations used in the book. Indeed, some folks read the clue as hinting at that being the case. But if the book is coming later and/or isn't using his work, then I do hope they choose a very appropriate artist for it.

I just recently rewatched Psycho after... phew, have no idea how many years! Great movie, I have to give kudos for Bernard Herrmann - I feel that his score truly made the film. I would not mind reading the novel. It's considered "horror", but I think it's no more horror than say a Jim Thompson novel - which is also something that deserves the fine press treatment! That said, I am aware of the Arion Press "South of Heaven" - a fabulous novel although arguably far "gentler" than most of Thompson's works
https://www.arionpress.com/store/90-south-of-heaven

>490 astropi:
I’d snap up a Jim Thomson novel in a minute — “The Killer Inside Me” or perhaps “The Grifters.

>490 astropi: You're probably aware, but Centipede has done a number of Jim Thompson novels. While not a fine press, they generally do a nice job.

>491 jroger1: I thought Grifters > Killer although that's just my opinion :)

>492 whytewolf1: Agreed. That said, it would be nice to have a truly fine press edition, and if not, something less expensive since on the secondary market the CP books are pricey.

The new title is up, it is indeed The Amityville Horror.

https://suntup.press/the-amityville-horror/

AE ordered.

The art's not bad, but sort of expected.

There's an afterward by Eric Walter, the director of the documentary, My Amityville Horror which is worth checking out if you haven't seen it. It's about one of the Lutz kids, now grown up, who continues to insist it was all real.

Not a bad first day, AE down to 335. Like most of them, probably will stabilise around 200 and trickle out from there.

Another massively underwhelming numbered. The lettered is awesome though.

The AE at $135 seems priced on the lower end of the recent releases so that should help it sell a bit better. Like others mentioned, I'm looking forward to some non-horror books from Suntup in the future.

I wouldn't mind more horror, but in general it's hard to get excited about a book that also has a very popular movie that's been around for decades. For Suntup, that would also include titles like The Ousiders, The Godfather, or Schindler's Ark.

Chances are I've already had plenty of time to read that book and have seen that movie more than once. More of the same isn't thrilling. It's the same disappointment I often feel with a lot of Folio's offerings - it's risk averse nostalgia bait and not something for which I want spend money on a pricey version unless it's on my (very) short list of personal favorites.

Centipede Press is better at mixing it up. They do some big popular titles, but also plenty of lesser known genre titles. By not pulling from the same popular list of classics, there's more of a sense of discovering something new, cool and interesting thanks to their knowledge and taste.

>499 ExLibrisDavid: It's an acceptable price for me. I like the art and the book is a fun read. Any higher price and it would have had to be letterpress for me to justify it.

>498 AlexBookshelfFrog: Exactly, apart from the fly, I don't really look at it and think Amityville horror. And might be something I've overlooked but the general colour choice and design doesn't really make much sense. I mean there was the red room, so could understand if red was used. But the random pea green might have better suited The Exorcist. I mean it's generally a 'nice' looking book. But just think it's underwhelming design for the book and price

>500 NoBueno: I wouldn't mind more horror, but in general it's hard to get excited about a book that also has a very popular movie that's been around for decades. For Suntup, that would also include titles like The Ousiders, The Godfather, or Schindler's Ark.

Myself, I have NO problem about getting excited about the books you noted :)
I think they are all excellent titles that absolutely deserve the fine press treatment! You're right that they are popular movies, and I'm sure that greatly helps when selling the books. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's wonderful to have a fine press edition of all of the above, and The Outsiders is not nearly as well known as the other two works - despite the fact that in 2019 the BBC listed it as one of the 100 most influential novels. The Outsiders is also one of the books I'm most excited about and is what I would consider one of Suntup's more "unusual" book choices, and I'm super thankful for that! Schindler's Ark and Johnny Got His Gun also fall along those lines - and I absolutely want to support Suntup in publishing more such truly great books that are less popular than they should be.

>503 astropi: >504 AlexBookshelfFrog:
“The Outsiders” movie was filmed in Tulsa, and the book’s author still lives in Broken Arrow, a Tulsa suburb, so I have been immersed in Outsiders lore for the many decades I have lived here. The myriad of our forum members who will one day visit Tulsa will want to find The Outsiders House Museum: https://www.theoutsidershouse.com/

>505 jroger1: Broken Arrow? What a Qanon hellhole nightmare of a place, even by Oklahoma standards. They have their city council meetings available online. Watch one sometime if you want every last one of your worst idiot red state stereotypes confirmed. Their mayor claimed witches were plotting against her in the last election and she still won.

Edit - Flag me if you want, people. I am currently in Broken Arrow and know exactly what I am talking about.

>506 NoBueno: Guessing you are being flagged for bringing politics into this rather than anything else

>507 DMulvee: I can see that. Suntup forum, not politics.

I've just witnessed too much bizarre and frankly unacceptable behaviour here that to see it mentioned along with a breezy suggestion that anyone should visit kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

>508 NoBueno: It’s too bad you’re being flagged. Lots of times people mention positive things about places and the tangents go on uninterrupted.

For those not aware, you can counter flag someone by a somewhat counterintuitive way - click Flag and then Counter Flag.

>504 AlexBookshelfFrog: I think it's absolutely worth it! The Outsiders is a true classic and I believe this is the first high-end edition of the novel ever released. I also think the illustrations are wonderful, and the fact that the numbered edition is signed by the author - done deal :)

>505 jroger1: Thank you, I hope to visit some day. Here is also the wikipedia entry -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsiders_House_Museum

>506 NoBueno: Sounds like it was probably a good thing I canceled my Grand Canyon trip then.

>510 astropi: I was going to mention the author signature as well. Is this the only officially signed edition of the book ever made? I thought I heard something to that effect when it was announced. There are probably other signed copies out there from when she signed them at events and such, but I don't know that there was ever a run offered signed right out the gate. So that makes it a bit more appealing and collectible, too.

>511 Shadekeep: Is this the only officially signed edition of the book ever made?
It is! I'm surprised the numbered edition has not yet sold out, but it will eventually.

>512 astropi: Wow, that really is special then! The book is considered a YA classic, and one which is just as accessible to adults. It's good to see Suntup going for titles like this as well as their more typical genres.

The best thing about this new release is Michael Blatty is going away. All his unprofessional and inane comments did was sully the Blatty name and I’m sure no publisher will hire him for similar work again. I felt second hand embarrassment for Paul.

Michael Blatty even mentioned his father’s Academy award and asked “how many Academy awards did Stephen King win again?” Last I checked Stephen King has won the same number of Academy awards as Michael Blatty.

>513 Shadekeep: I concur, I feel this is truly a special edition of a special book.

>514 booksforeveryone: That's unfortunate, and mildly amusing too! So, is it reasonable to ask what are some of the more inane comments he posted?

>515 AlexBookshelfFrog: Stephen King is the godfather of horror.
Well... I would disagree. I think Stephen King is the most successful horror writer of all time, but I feel there are many writers who deserve the title of "godfather of horror" - most notably, Edgar Allan Poe. By the way, as someone that has read quite a few of King's works, I think there are many better writers out there. King is famous because of Hollywood (nothing wrong with that) which is why so many people rush to acquire his memorabilia.

>514 booksforeveryone: lol he’s started again.

New book release today, and the last of the three teased in this post.

All those Psycho guesses were right. Oh and it's letterpress for the AE as well.

>520 AlexBookshelfFrog:

Get their newsletter to be up to date on things, and be on the website as soon as the remaining copies go on sale. One can never be sure, but lately it was possible to get a numbered edition then.

>520 AlexBookshelfFrog: To add to SF-72's answer; Suntup has a rights system which means previous buyers of a numbered edition has first dibs on buying the next one. A lot of people buy books to keep the rights (and then sell them on the secondary market). Sometimes the numbered editions have all had rights holders, sometimes only a portion does.
In short, depends on the popularity of the given book (which we have yet to see here) and the amount of people who stay in the rights game. There's always some copies on the secondary market.

>520 AlexBookshelfFrog: there are numbered editions available for sale on the Fans Facebook page at the moment.

>525 AlexBookshelfFrog: Not sure wheather Psycho is an extreme famous book tbh
It's uber-famous because of the movie. The reason Jaws and similar books have sold out nearly instantaneously is because of how popular the movies are. Hitchcock's "Psycho" is a cinema masterpiece and one of the most influential films of all time. If you're a fan of the movie, and I am, this is an instant purchase! I mean, a letterpress book for $155 -- Thank you Suntup :)

The numbered edition is really well designed. That said, it's also over three times the cost of the AE. Since the AE is letterpress, I decided to go with that. Robert Bloch passed away in 1994. Had he been around to sign the numbered edition I think that would be something special. As it stands, I'm very excited about the AE, and they are down to 275 (out of 750) copies within a matter of hours -- clearly this is going to sell out, probably by tomorrow if not tonight.

>525 AlexBookshelfFrog:
Psycho is one of my favorite novels and movies, but something happened twixt the original announcement schedule (1000 AE copies) and the actual publication announcement (750 AE copies). Perhaps Suntup discovered that Psycho is no longer as popular as he expected (or as it ought to be).

>524 AlexBookshelfFrog: for about $50 over. Which is about cost plus shipping, etc

>527 jroger1: I'm guessing it's because they had a lot of stock from the latest AE releases. I'm not sure why the LOA reprint of Poe was so popular. As it stood yesterday when I compiled a list:
The Magus: 300+
Godfather: 72
Edgar Allan Poe: SOLD OUT
Legion: 300+
Amityville Horror: 296

>529 A.Godhelm:
Poe, the master of horror, detective fiction, and haunting poetry will always outsell most contemporary writers. Also, his portrait on the AE jacket was an instant eye-grabber. And at well over 1,000 pages, curated by the highly respected Library of America, it was an extraordinarily good deal. I admit to being surprised, though, at the relatively slow sales of Psycho.

AE is a beautiful, and a great price for letterpress. However personally just not a book for me. Numbered is really nice too.

>531 AlexBookshelfFrog: “most people didn't know the book and alot of people think that Psycho is from Alfred Hitchcock.”

I’m not surprised. Many Americans probably think that Steven Spielberg wrote “Jaws” and “Jurassic Park.” Not all movie fans are readers.

149 Copies of the AE are left.
Selling 80% of your stock within 24 hrs is pretty good I'd say!

The numbered edition of Psycho sold out in 15 minutes or so, the quantity having been reduced to 250 from the originally announced 350. There are still 119 AEs available out of 750, having been reduced from the announced 1,000. It appears that >529 A.Godhelm: is correct that Suntup has decided that he doesn’t want so many extra copies left over.

80 copies of the AE left...

>539 astropi: I just caved and bought one. The letterpress aspect is what pushed it over the top for me.

>540 Shadekeep: I have the Suntup AE (letterpress) Animal Farm - it's superb. I'm convinced this will be equally beautiful.

>540 Shadekeep: >541 astropi: My thoughts as well, so went ahead and ordered the AE.

>540 Shadekeep: >541 astropi: >542 Dr.Fiddy: Same. I like a lot of the design aspects here but in the end it was the letterpress aspect which pushed me to order. It also gave me a chuckle that of all the 'worthy' literature out there it was Psycho which was selected for letterpress treatment. So bonus point there. AND shipping costs to Europe are 'only' $44, which these days is very reasonable.

Announcement schedule is up. Some quick Googling suggests August might be Winterset Hollow, based on this tweet: https://twitter.com/thisone0verhere/status/1460890040003817477

I know that he said July's lack of a clue isn't a clue, but I would laugh if it winds up being Emma -- which Clueless is loosely based off of.

Down to 70 copies... they sold over 90% of their stock within 2 days! Sounds like a win for Suntup, and a win for us :)

>544 jskalitz: September has to be The Last Unicorn, right? I know Paul teased that one previously.

Good to see two-out-of-three AEs this quarter being printed letterpress!

>544 jskalitz: Would be quite the coup if he got the author to sign that one lol

All numbereds down to 250 and two of the AEs down to 500. Also numbered one of the admins for the Facebook group, one of the original members and a huge Suntup cheerleader have jumped off the numbered train, as has a long time, original member. A sign of how difficult the market is right now.

It's interesting, some truly classic literature such as "The Island of Dr. Moreau" did sell out, but numbered editions are available BELOW publication price! Considering this is a classic work by one of the godfathers of science fiction AND this edition is letterpress - I'm amazed!

>549 AlexBookshelfFrog: I agree. I saw copies of The Road sell for under $2000. Still a huge pile of money for most of us, but I know a few years ago this was around $3000. I suspect at some point prices will rise again, and fall again, it just depends on various factors - especially if a movie/TV series comes into play.

>550 astropi: And the numbered "The Island of Dr. Moreau" is a very nice looking volume. Definitely worthy of being a definitive copy for someone's collection (it is for mine), unless they have a real bias for older editions.

>546 NathanOv: That is my guess as well.

Looks like someone at Suntup follows the thread, given the emphatic denial of The Hellbound Heart. ^_^

>549 AlexBookshelfFrog: Yep, see lots for sale but not a lot selling. It's crazy to think back to the days pre Blood Meridien where people were paying hundreds of dollars just for rights!

Yeah I joined after Rosemary's Baby. Would love a copy of the AE but wouldn't pay more than about $200-$250 at most for it, which means I will never have it, but can live with it. I know Paul sold a few of the early AEs, including this one, at a loss. Saying that there was a seller about maybe 9-12 months ago that sold a bunch of AEs, including Rosemary's Baby and Silence of the Lambs for $95 each. I think it was assumed it was a scam post as they were too good to be true prices, but turned out to be genuine. The guy who was lucky enough to buy them I think flipped them on the same group very shortly after receiving them. Can't imagine the original seller was too pleased to see that!

Here's a question, what are people's favorite/most desired Suntup editions and why?

At the top of my list is The Island of Doctor Moreau because I have never seen a letterpress edition of this classic before! Another work on my list is The Outsiders which is not letterpress, but it is signed by the author, and to my knowledge this is the only "fine" edition of this classic ever produced.

Animal Farm AE is magnificent - letterpress printed at a wonderful price, and the only reason it's not higher on my list is because there already are other "fine press" editions. I feel that the letterpress AE of Psycho and The Stepford Wives will be equally as magnificent.

There are two Suntup editions I'm disappointed I missed, and they are Red Dragon and The Godfather (numbered editions) -- so if anyone has one of those for trade let me know!