Discussion - Episode 408: "Faith" (SPOILERS)

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Discussion - Episode 408: "Faith" (SPOILERS)

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1fannyprice
maig 8, 2008, 11:14pm

A place to discuss Episode 408: "Faith", which premiers in the US & Canada on 9 May and in the UK on 13 May according to BattlestarWiki. Spoilers are to be expected.

2fannyprice
maig 8, 2008, 11:15pm

We're at the sixth episode of the season and I'm trying to remember if anything that has happened so far this season has really surprised me. I have high hopes for tomorrow's episode.

3littlegeek
maig 10, 2008, 2:33pm

OK, that was more like it. First epi this season i really liked. When Sam's hand was hovering over the cylon goo I was "do it, do it!" knowing he wouldn't.

I'll watch it again and then check back.

4fannyprice
Editat: maig 10, 2008, 3:39pm

(Augh, my post saved when all I had said was "wow, cool episode.") This episode actually responded to a lot of the critiques I've had about previous episodes this season - we saw a lot of Athena & explored the nature of her relationship with the other Cylons and the other Eights in particular, the overall plot FINALLY moved forward, and Kara is finally out of standby mode.

Until the last couple minutes, I was thinking, wow, two episodes in a row with no Adama. But fortunately he showed up in the end. Well, once again, not much really happened in this one in terms of action, but a lot of interesting emotional and pyschological developments, I think. I think big things are brewing for next episode though - its going to start getting really interesting and from the scenes for next week's episode it looks like we're finally going to see the return of the elusive Hera! Woo hoo.

I was so glad that the plot moved forward in this episode - I was so tired of Kara being the ignored prophet and shrieking about how no one listened to her. The alliance between humans and cylons looks to be fascinating and a good source of tension. I wonder what will happen when the cylons get on board Galactica - especially with the two different Six models.

Its fascinating to me how the number of Cylons keeps diminishing as they are killed off for real by each other and by the humans. I wonder if there are many more of them left in other resurrection ships or if Cavil and his faction did something to kill them off. Cylon death is starting to become much more meaningful, at least for the Leobans, Eights, and Sixes. I'm sure that there will be much fan-wanking about the possible porno implications of the two Sixes kissing, but I thought it was really touching. Imagine watching part of yourself die - literally. And then contrast that to Athena watching the other Eight die - she clearly has severed her emotional connection to the others. She couldn't even bring herself to touch her dying sister. Didn't any of the other humans or Cylons think it was weird that Sam showed so much emotion and compassion to the dying Eight? I liked Athena's rebuke to the other Eights - "Choose a side, stop being so traitorous!"

Gosh, littlegeek, I was so with you on Sam - "Do it, do it! Stick your hand in the goo!" I really thought something big would come out of that moment and everyone would be like "what, how did THAT happen?" but not realize Sam had anything to do with it. I keep waiting, wanting to see something come out of this whole final five thing - what are their special powers, when are some of the other Cylons going to catch on, etc? I think its very clever how they keep writing lines for Leoban to Anders that are kind of suggestive and ambiguous, so that Anders kind of does a double-take and is like "wait, does he know who I am or is that just random Leoban prattering?"

Would Helo really have left his wife and friends behind? Will Gaeta lose his leg (that seemed like a weird, random, and cheap way to involve him in the story again)? Will anything come out of the Demetrius mutiny and Sam shooting Gaeta? Any consequences to anyone from the deaths of two red-shirts? And how much is the fleet going to freak out when a basestar jumps into the middle of them? And will Kara ever wash her hair? :)

5fannyprice
maig 10, 2008, 3:41pm

Hah, not to monopolize the thread and have a little conversation with myself, but I just re-read my post and realized that I really didn't say anything about a couple other plot developments.

What does it mean that Roslin seems increasingly on board with the Baltar cult? Does this seem like a really unexpected change for her? Is she just grasping at straws because she's afraid of dying?

Also, is Kara is good thing or a bad thing? "The harbinger of death" doesn't sound too lovely.

6kawika
maig 10, 2008, 4:20pm

Just as in using tarot, death may not be a bad thing, but could be interpreted as simple change. One way ends and another begins, so Kara being the harbinger of death isn't necessarily bad. Of course, if she brings the cylons back, there may very well be death for a number of people, so....yeah. There it is.

Sharon just annoyed the hell out of me even more. Her whole sanctimonious speech about choosing sides just makes her a complete hypocrite, in my opinion. That she preaches exactly that which she hasn't practiced when it's inconvenient for her bothers me all the more. She's all for something up until the moment she doesn't like it, then she'll wheedle, whine, and cajole others to going along with her and Helo is just her bitch when it comes to getting her way. And really...a choke hold to restrain Kara?

I found it interesting that it took spilled blood to "awaken" the hybrid. I was also looking forward to seeing if Anders would start glowing when he entered the hybrid's room, but now can't recall if he entered before she was taken offline or at some other point when circuitry wouldn't have been revealed. If Kara isn't the twelfth, then they'll need to explain why her circuitry wasn't showing in the hybrid's chamber.

The hybrid's prophecy...does this mean Anders is outed, leaving Tigh, Tori, and Tyrol as the three hidden? Will the theory that the five are somehow directly connected to earth pan out?

7littlegeek
maig 10, 2008, 4:23pm

I think Gaeta is going to be even more resentful of Kara now, and he'll go after her. He tried to kill Baltar once, why not Kara? I still think he might be the final cylon, too.

Second time a Six has killed one of her own (didn't one shoot CapSix on New Caprica?). Also I love the whole Athena thing. Her flippy floppiness is definitely going to figure more in the plot, I'm thinking.

Roslin following Baltar? That's stretching it. She's already had dreams of the opera house with cylons in it, and she didn't suddenly think she's a cylon or whatever. Why would one dream, that she could easily explain (and did earlier) as common to those who are dying, make her suddenly believe in her worst enemy?

I usually find EJO's whispering annoying, but I did love the way he delivered "you." Mary was masterful, she needs an Emmy.

And speaking of acting chops, I was really impressed with Trucco this week. Usually he's just a pretty face (and arms), and they make him make that "confuse a cylon" face way too often, but when he got all compassionate with the dying Sharon, I really bought it. Parallels with how Baltar describes God holding your hand as you cross the water....this show is awesome.

What was up with all the Shakespeare? I sure hope they're not going with this whole show being a video game or something cheesey like that. (Especially with the hybrid saying "end of line, reset" about 20 times.) There are way too many things in BSG world that are 21st century earth, it makes me nervous.

Thinking about it more, this epi was the first time I wasn't annoyed by acting choices or direction. The pacing was good, the performances right on, no scenery-chewing by Katee or EJO. Writers usually get the fans' wrath, but to me, any of the previous eps could have been this good with tighter pacing and/or better acting.

Thank the gods my show is back.

8littlegeek
Editat: maig 10, 2008, 4:28pm

kaw, I think the three hidden is Xenalon. I also suspect that the "harbinger of death" thing applies only to cylons. Is the "toy solder" Anders, or Lee or Adama? I think Anders.

9fyrefly98
maig 10, 2008, 4:41pm

Why do they keep killing off my favorite quaternary characters? If Racetrack bites it, I'm going to be very cranky, and BSG and I are going to have some words.

I find it interesting that in the monotheistic vs. greek-based polytheistic divide, it's the monotheists who get the ferryman crossing the river between life and death... I hear "ferry" and "death" and I think of Charon and the river Styx. Also, am I the only one who was really, really hoping for Billy to be waiting on that bank? She didn't have a husband, didn't have kids, but she loved Billy. I can see if they couldn't get/didn't want Paul Campbell for whatever reason, but that would have been so sweet and right.

As for Kara, what the hybrid said in this episode is echoing/repeating what the hybrid said in the extended cut of Razor - that she's the harbinger of death, that she will bring them all to their end. Which, I think the Hybrid(s), like Pythia, are always right, but not necessarily always literally right... There's a big difference about bringing someone to their end and killing them. The end of the cylons and the end of the humans and the start of something new.

>6 kawika: The hybrid's prophecy...does this mean Anders is outed, leaving Tigh, Tori, and Tyrol as the three hidden?

I parsed this as the Three that is hidden, not the three that is hidden - meaning Deanna, who's seen the final five. That's the next step for them - unboxing the Threes. I wonder if Kara still feels "If I found out you were a Cylon, I would put a bullet in between your eyes." now that she's all happy-alliance-forming.

I also loved all the scenes with the Eights - and I think they're heading in the direction where Chief's going to be the one to bring Boomer around - and vice versa. That's going to be great.

But my favorite bit of the whole thing - and rapidly becoming the most interesting character to me, other than the Eights - was Anders. Every scene he was in, every line, was just great.

But, I'm serious about Racetrack. Hrmph.

10avaland
maig 10, 2008, 10:06pm

We watched the scene with the hybrid twice. They figure out the riddle for us and say it out loud. The three hidden is Deanna. But don't they have to find Cavil and gang to get Deanna unboxed? She can recognize the five, they all interpreted; and the five are from the 13th race? of humans and know the way to earth.... I think that's it (I've been driving all day and tired, not sure I've remembered it correctly). I was actually a little bummed that the characters figured out the riddle for us all...

Of course Gaeta will lose his leg (or perhaps he'll shoot himself)

11avaland
maig 11, 2008, 11:59am

and, OMG, did you see the Barbara Bush look-a-like waiting on the shore in Roslyn's dream? The president's mother....get it. Both my husband and I concluded there is no way that was an accident. The blue dress and white hair...

12fannyprice
maig 11, 2008, 12:06pm

>11 avaland:, Haha - Good call Avaland. I totally didn't pick up on that. To me she just looked like an old woman, but you're right about the imagery.

13littlegeek
maig 11, 2008, 3:10pm

#11 Hubby & I both said it at the same time. A lttle too cute, imho. And where was Billy and Adar? Shouldn't they have been there, too?

14littlegeek
maig 11, 2008, 3:15pm

What struck me about what the hybrid said was that it wasn't anything the 2/6/8's didn't already know. Natalie had already proposed resurrecting the 3's to Cavil. The problem is how to do it, and for that they need the humans' help. Why does hearing it from the hybrid make Kara care about it? She used to think she herself knew the way to earth, now she needs the cylons help? I am confused.

15fannyprice
maig 11, 2008, 3:50pm

>13 littlegeek:, Yeah I wondered about Billy and Adar too - I'm sure they couldn't get those actors again for just a cameo. Besides, would you recognize Adar again if you saw him? I know I wouldn't. :)

>14 littlegeek:, You are right about the whole thing with the hybrid. Also, like avaland, I wished that they wouldn't have turned around and been all like "here's exactly what the hybrid meant by what she just said." But maybe the writers are realizing that they are running out of time and better just cut to the point. I don't think the hybrid said anything the Cylons didn't know, but did the humans know that resurrecting the 3s was important? Did they even know the 3s weren't around anymore? Why did the cylons need human help to unbox the 3s? Was that ever explained? I think Kara is totally mind-frakked. I don't know if her whole "special destiny" thing really makes sense if you look at it critically, so I try not to. :)

16littlegeek
maig 11, 2008, 4:24pm

The cylons need the humans because they've just had their asses handed to them by the 1/4/5's and they have no ftl drive.

What doesn't make sense is why the humans need them. Why does Kara suddenly care about the final five? She used to be obsessed with finding earth. She used to hate cylons so much she told Anders if he was a cylon she'd shoot him no questions asked. Now she's all buddy buddy with them because of something Leoben said?

Does not compute.

17avaland
maig 12, 2008, 9:49am

I thought the hybrid's talk this time when she first came on was a bit like poetry. She would say one line in imagery and the next line would be technical. It was kind of cool. I'd have to look at a transcript to see if the imagery was an expression of the technical. Still, cool.

Remember, we still don't know what happened to Kara during those 2 months . . . that should come back around at some point.

It will be interesting what will happen when they get back to Galactica. Adama will not let Anders off the hook for shooting Gaita - the end doesn't justify the means. It would be out of character for him to let him off the hook. Although, the 'rules' are all getting a bit fluid it seems.

18littlegeek
maig 12, 2008, 11:25am

He let Helo off the hook for ruining their genocide plot. He let Helo & Tyrol off the hook for murdering a Pegasus officer. He let Lee off the hook for pulling a gun on Tigh, he let Kara off the hook for pulling a gun on Roslin, his was the deciding vote letting Baltar walk.....let's face it, he lets' everyone off the hook.

19avaland
maig 12, 2008, 1:10pm

ok, so apparently he does (I suppose it depends on the plot - can't have everyone in the brig, can we?):-)

So we are back to the question of who is Deanna apologizing to when she envisions the five. Does she mean it generally or is she speaking to one in particular?

20littlegeek
maig 12, 2008, 1:49pm

I think it's Anders. She almost killed him on Caprica. Plus, she talking to someone at least as tall/taller than her and he's the only tall final 4 cylon.

After last week, Anders sure feels like a way more important character than we've previously been lead to believe. He showed himself to be more than a pretty, dumb jock.

21fannyprice
maig 12, 2008, 6:21pm

I think it could also be Tigh - they imprisoned and tortured him on New Caprica. He has very real physical scars from that (i.e., the missing eye). I don't know what role the Final Five are supposed to play in the Cylon mythology, but even assuming they are not prophets, saints, something else religious-based, they are still Cylons & at this point in the story, Cylons weren't really big on hurting each other, despite the little conflict on Caprica between the Eights/Sixes and the Threes that led to them killing one of the Threes. Imagine how you'd feel if you found out that the random traitor you imprisoned, tortured, and maimed was basically a member of your "family," or something similar.

Honestly, though, I'm assuming that the one Deanna apologized to is the one we haven't seen yet. I think somehow she will be key to revealing that person.

22littlegeek
maig 12, 2008, 6:59pm

I'm pretty sure it was Doral who took out Cavil's eye, tho.

We'll know soon enough. Woo hoo!