Hi guys, can we talk?

Hi all,

"What's your story, morning glory?" as my old dad used to say.

I'm a layperson, convert of 14 years (yes, somewhat unusual in the Lutheran world, I've been told), raised a nominal RC but never a believer. I call myself Lutheran because it was an ELCA church that loved me into the fold, so to speak; but am really open to all experiences of Christianity. God reaches different folks in different ways; I can attest to that.

Any Alvin Rogness fans here?

ELCA, LCMS or other?

Lay, AIM, or pastor-type person?

Thanks for starting this group, kurtabeard. Hope I haven't jumped your gun... :)

Cici

I was hoping someone would kick things off thanks Cici.

I grew up Lutheran but have since formally left the ELCA and Lutheran church all together. I still consider myself Lutheran but for a variety of reasons will not be a member of a Lutheran church. I’ve written a little about it http://delayedepiphany.blogspot.com/2005/01/being-lutheran.html

Hmm, yes, I think I know some of what drove your decision...

I used to have the following exchange with a good friend who left the Luth. church (because she felt it was no longer orthodox) shortly after I joined:
Me: these things are complicated
Her: no they're not complicated, people are making them complicated but they're not in scripture
Me: but they *feel* complicated to me...

I'm no theologian and struggle with intellectually arguing any church position, (plus don't have the time or the stomach for it frankly!). All I know is that I used to be afraid of God, whatever God was, and my Lutheran in-and-out-of-church experience has shown me that that fear was, is, unwarranted! "Was lost but now am found" stuff.

Yes, I could find that doctrine of love and grace in another church organization, but I like how this organization keeps the emphasis on *Christ's* work, though, not on who *I* am or even what I understand or believe! I don't trust myself to ever have it figured out right, and thank goodness I don't need to, whew... that little bit of faith of mine is sufficient... thank God.

I would agree these are complicated (that's half the fun in studying them). I think by leaving the door open to complication we leave our selves open to interacting with the Mystery of our faith and the suprising delight of God.

I'm a Lutheran! Or rather I belong to a small and friendly ELCA congregation that sends a few people to the synod assemblies every year but otherwise could care less about doctrine or orthodoxy, and I am cheerfully syncretic and liberal in actual beliefs. But I love the Lutheran Church for its history and its rituals and its song and its faith alone and its people.

I also collect old (and new!) Lutheran hymnals, because I kept getting bits of the liturgy stuck in my head and needed it in print, so I could ponder it properly. Then I kept buying more and more....

... is there really a Katherine von Bora bobble head? I think I might need one of them. Kate is one of my role models.

Hello melannen!

Hey, Lutherans come in all stripes as do Christians; he's a big God and we'll find out in heaven who got it "right."

I love Katie's story too. A woman who knew her own mind and acted on it! Have you ever read Kitty My Rib? That was my first intro to her.

I collect hymnals too, but haven't got them cataloged yet. The Red Book, the Red Book... that's all I heard when I first joined the church! People mourned its passing!

What do you think of the "funky-colored hymnal" (what our staff calls the Renewing Worship Songbook?

Of course there is a Katherine von Bora bobble head. I can't make things like that up!

That being said, they don't appear to be sold anymore. Both my Martin and my Katie came from http://www.oldlutheran.com/. They only appear to sell the Martin now which is a bit sad.

Ooh, I haven't seem the newest songbooks yet, although I do know that an old friend of mine whose Master's thesis in sacred music was a new Lutheran liturgy that she submitted! (I haven't heard whether they got back to her on it.)

My church tends to be liberal in doctrine but conservative in practice and is still trying to reconcile to the existence of the blue hymnal (With One Voice).

And I haven't read kitty my rib, but I knew there had to be a romance novel about her out there somewhere! (*such* a romantic story.) I will have to see if I can find myself a copy.

And that just website is full of fun stuff, isn't it? Wow.

Red book? I have a Green one which I grew up on.

I too collect hymnals, not just Lutheran hymnals. I have a small collection which grows each time I raid the half priced book stores or find a church whose decided to go ‘contemporary’

As far as the Renewing Worship Songbook I’ve not used (or read much of) one but have read and heard mixed reviews concerning it. Several folks I know have commented that it is to universal (in the Unitarian sense), to political (in the political and theological sense) and to contemporary (in the wording and theological sense).

The Red Book aka the Service Book and Hymnal was the LCA precursor to the Green Book (current Lutheran Book of Worship). Kurtabeard, maybe your previous Lutheran church hadn't been affiliated with the LCA, so they wouldn't have used it. The LCA old-timers will know it well. It was bright red as opposed to the "loganberry red" of the upcoming one...see http://www.renewingworship.org/ . I guess Renewing Worship Songbook is the name for the paperback test version; the new one will actually be called "Evangelical Lutheran Worship."

Melannen, how neat if your friend's liturgy is included!

Content-wise, we've been using one of the new liturgies out of the test version for awhile and it's pleasant to sing. Actually anything's better than Setting 1 of the Green Book, which our congregation used TOO much and I came to dread! I just hate "same old, same old," but in a church that values tradition sometimes that seems to be the way most want to go. Variety, please, is what I say, to keep the language and meaning fresh and heartfelt.

I do like WOV too. Actually, I like it all...

Kurtabeard, me too with hymnals from ALL churches. When I see one in a book sale I feel I must give it a loving home -- it cries out to me like a little puppy in a cage at the SPCA! Maybe if I had the true evangelical spirit, though, I would leave it there to witness to the next shopper! :) But all I can think of is, what if at the end of the sale they throw all the leftovers in the trash! Yikes!

Do we have favorite hymns?

Oh melannen, I see you have the Red Book in your catalog already! Good on ya.

Thanks for the brief history of the red book. Being a bit young and out of touch with the Lutheran church I'm not up on all the older and newer versions of the Lutheran Hymnal.

I have the green book, the red book (which is actually one of the ones my church got rid of when the green ones came in, years ago) *and* the gray book! (Common Service Book with Hymnal), which is what the ULCA & thus my church used before the unification and the Red Hymnal. Although confusingly my copy of the Gray Hymnal is actually dark red for some reason.

I think it's the same one kurtabeard mentioned having, on the other thread. Maybe I should head over there now.

We nearly always use Setting 2 (Although we use 1 during advent and other church holidays) and I love it because after twenty years at the same church I have it completely memorized backwards and forwards - the minister's parts too. I think it's kind of a balance - on one hand, using the same words over and over can turn into rote recitation without meaning; on the other hand, using the same words every time gives you a chance to really understand every word and how it all fits together, and imbues it with a deeper meaning based on long comfort.

My church is so traditional that it's a major effort to convince us to change *anything* - even if it's to go back to a more traditional practice. Because then it would be *different*! I like it that way, though. We have people leave because they want a more contemporary service, but we also get everyone who's left the other churches because they don't like the changes, so it balances out, more or less.