Fellowship of the Ring discussion, Part II chapters 4-6

This week, we're discussing the following chapters:

4: A Journey in the Dark
5: The Bridge of Khazad-Dûm
6: Lothlórien

Also, a housekeeping note before we get started: We only have four chapters remaining in the book. We could read and discuss them all at once, but my suggestion would be to split them two and two and cover them in the next two weeks. What does everyone else think?

I'm doing it all from memory anyway so I'd vote all in one.

Definetly my favourite part of book1 - Moria.

Logically inconsistent as to how something so large as the Watcher could get into that pool though, shame about the wonderful doors, but I assume it being Sauron driven can feel the ring?

Gandlaf's very harsh on Pippin for chucking the stone. That's what holes are for!

Balin's tomb and the diary is some of JJR's most sensitive writing, especially Gimli. Admittedly the bar is pretty low though.

Fly you Fools! is possibly the most famous line in LoTR. It gets quoted and re-used in a lot of texts. I was particularly impressed with the version in Deathgate though I can't remember which book exactly anymore.

I'm surprised the hobbits don't like trees that much, I'd have though a bit of climbing would suit the less portly ones quite well.

Dribble. Dribble. Fake. Shoot. Swish.

"Back, vile hoopster!"

I thought the Watcher was a creature that came up from the bowels of the earth probably through a crack in the bottom of the lake,

Chapter 4 notes:

1) Aragorn and Boromir: they're poets and don't know it.

2) I wonder why they cut the wolf attack from the movie. It would have made a good scene -- lots of action and excitement.

3) Tolkien likes his little riddle... "Speak friend and enter."

4) Gandalf is getting a bit testy with Boromir and Pippin.

5) Pippin's like a little kid on a car trip. "Are we there yet?"

6) No wonder Gandalf seems grumpy . . . he needs his nicotine! He hasn't been able to smoke his pipe for days!

7) I think it's interesting that Frodo is surprised and awed at the worth of the mithril shirt, when the Ring he's carrying is worth a whole lot more.

8) Gandalf is the King of Exposition™ for this chapter.

I have very few notes for Chapter 5:

1) "Swart" -- now there's a word you don't hear very often!

2) This chapter was very action-filled and fast-paced. I almost didn't award a King of Exposition™ for this chapter, but then I decided that Gandalf should get it one more time. Legolas gets an honorable mention for identifying the Balrog.

It seemed to me that standing there reading the records left by Durin's party was ridiculously imprudent. Why not just take it with them and get the heck out of there?

On the bridge, we get some clues as to Gandalf's true nature: "I am a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the flame of Anor..." (I think that's close; I'm at work w/o my book). He identifies his power with the sun (Anor) and the balrog with hell (Udun), so that even someone who misses all the hints that white is good and black is bad can appreciate that we've got a real face-off betwen good and evil going on. Gandalf's power, focused through his sword, destroys the balrog's sword. He has essentially defeated the balrog until it manages to snare him with the whip.

BTW, re "swart": Guy Kay, who helped finish The Silmarillion, wrote his own Tolkienesque fantasy trilogy and called his orc-equivalents "svart alfar" (black elves).

All right, here's the deal: I'll go ahead and make a thread for the last four chapters of FotR on Monday, but considering that we seem to have lost a few people on the way through the book, I think we should take a break before starting The Two Towers. So, if you've been falling behind in your reading, now's your chance to catch up with the group! We'll wait at least a couple of weeks before going on -- look for a discussion of when to start the next book on next week's thread.

Oh, great idea, foggi! You're a genius! I'm still reading, just too slowly.

#7 - at the time they were reading they didn't know there was any particular need for rush, it was old before they got there and Moria was silent. As good a place to rest as any - and in the end fortuitous otherwise theyd have been on the wrong side of the fire.

I've always taken "wielder of the secret fire" to be a reference to his wearing (as a gift/loan) the third elven ring of power possibly Cirdan's who might not need it at the coast. I've always assumed Elrond has the other though I don't think there is text to support this.

#10 I suspect you're right about the secret fire, although there's more to Gandalf than to the elven (and half-elven) bearers of the other two rings. I believe you're right that Elrond is the third; the parallels between Rivendell and Lorien as unique places and possible strongholds are very strong and otherwise hard to explain. Someone at Elrond's council (Galdor?) lists Rivendell, Lorien, and the Havens as the three locations with the strength to resist Sauron for a while; presumably he doesn't know that Cirdan gave/lent his ring to Gandalf.

I wonder if Gandalf uses the ring he bears to shield himself from being detected by magical means, and that is why Galadriel says that she cannot see him from afar.

yeah...so I think I fell off the bridge at Khazad-dum. I always get bogged down at the council meeting. Then it takes a while to catch up...I'll come back soon.