Discussion - Episode 4.13 "Sometimes a Great Notion"

If there's anyone out there.

I'm here!

All caught up on the first half of the season and on all the webisodes, so my excitement for the show has returned.

Any last minute theories you'd like to espouse?

I think some of the so-called "spoilers" are a crock and a joke on gullible fans by RDM.

I still have not caught up!!! What is wrong with me?

>3 littlegeek: I haven't seen any of these "spoilers", although the You Will Know the Truth "clues" are mostly just being obscure and making me annoyed.

My favorite out-there theory is that we are the final Cylon(s).

blah

Really? I'm pretty much totally okay with tonight's ep. Not blown away, but okay with it, especially since 1) we actually got some character development, instead of PLOTPLOTPLOT, and 2) I can see several cool places to go from here.

I thought it was a great episode! I'm very sad about Dee.

I was really hoping the Ellen Tigh spoiler was garbage. Kind of anticlimactic. Still, some interesting developments. I'll miss Dee. She didn't get much to do in S4.

Just finished watching this episode. Not sure what I think about Ellen being the 5th but her statement was very interesting. Hopefully we'll learn about that plan that was set in place....and what the deal with with Kara.

Entertaining, yet also not blown away by the episode. They would have to do something really thought-provoking to blow me away.

>11 Irisheyz77: ah, I don't believe that bit about Ellen. I think they're tweaking us. Of course, I could be wrong. Gail, yes, her statement is interesting and made me think of Starbuck.

Seems they can kill off a character every episode or two since this is the final season. The preview featuring Dee was a dead giveaway.

come on, fanny, get with the program! :-) (pun intended)

I don't think they're tweaking us, but I guess we'll see next week - if the preview still says "Twelve Cylon Models / Seven are Known / Four Live in the Fleet / One will be Revealed", that's pretty strong argument that they were just jerking us around. :)

the previews for the coming episode have said now that the final cylon is known....I first saw part of one before I had watched the episode and caught it right when they showed the VP guy (blanking on name) and I was...damn it did scifi just spoil things for me? but then i saw the episode...and later that same preview and the show ellen in it before slashing to the VP.

As for Kara...they've always highlight that there was something different about here. I've always thought that it might mean that she's a hybrid. But that doesn't explain how her jumper crashed on earth and how she somehow returned to the fleet.

Hi everyone! New to this forum but have watched Battlestar Galactica since the beginning. BG and Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles are my fave shows on tv.

Here's a great (long) article featuring an interview with Ron Moore about the latest episode:

Chicago Tribune article

In the article, the writers mention that they took some stuff from Sometimes a Great Notion as their inspiration. Has anyone read it?

I saw the movie. Paul Newman, yum.

I read that article a few days ago. Having found the Ellen idea pretty pedestrian, it was a bit annoying to see how self-congratulatory RDM was about the choice.

I have to say, the show really has gone downhill since the rescue from New Caprica. I hope they end it well, but I'm assuming they won't.

Ellen was always on my shortlist for the 5th. I've also thought about Adama's other son, and of course, Kara. Dee was another.

I really liked the episode. There have been a few episodes I didn't care for but overall I've loved the entire series.

If Tigh wasn't a cylon himself I would have thought so, but both of them seems like a waste. Takes the sting out of her death. I like the character and the actress, I just don't think it's all that interesting to have her be a cylon.

I still don't get how those five cylons managed to stay alive during the original attack.

So, is there some confirmation that she really is the final? Or are we still waiting for it to be confirmed in some way beyond Tigh saying so? Agree with you, littlegeek, about it taking the sting out of her death. That was such a poignant moment.

I'm still waiting for them to explain what happened with Starbuck's ovary...

I'm sort of dreading the whole zarek-leads-the-rebellion sort of thing coming up. Sigh.

>20 avaland: Well, the BSG page on scifi.com says "Watch the final scene of 'Sometimes a Great Notion' and discover the final Cylon's identity", so I'd say yeah. Plus the article linked to in #15 above makes it pretty clear that she's the fifth.

Maybe Starbucks ovary was used to make a clone of her...and that is how she was able to return to the fleet when she went to earth and crashed.

But there's the time travel thing with Starbuck. I'm confused.

Ellen is the fifth. Just before the ep aired I asked the hubby if he had any final cylon predictions and he said, "it's not about the final cylon, it's about who dies, and when, and how."

Smart man, my husband.

My current working theory is that there's some kind of resurrection hub on/in/near Earth - probably not working the same way with the giant goo baths, but something that allowed the Five to be reborn after the nuclear holocaust. Somehow, Starbuck was able to tap into that and be reborn - part of her special destiny, blah blah... or maybe she's a Cybrid too! ;)

But why was it 2000 years in the past when Starbuck crashed? Or if not, why did she only remember it as before the holocaust? If the FF cylons are "born" (like out of a womb) not resurrected, how can they manage to be the same age at the same time all the time? (Did that make sense?)

They have lots of 'splainin' to do.

But does Starbuck remember Earth? I thought all she knew was the location...and her "corpse" didn't look like one that had been incinerated by a nuclear attack.

I also wonder about the Earth Cylons...in the flashbacks it looks like there were as diversified as regular humans. Which would throw a wrench in the whole there are only 12 models thing. There is also something that sets the final five apart from the other cylons...why they were never talked about and not part of their world.

Maybe all 12 known models survived the attack. They were all reborn/resurrected somehow and then began the journey to the 12 colonies. Perhaps they put themselves in stasis or something and were later discovered by the Toasters that had been ejected from the colonies during the first cylon....and...and then thats were my thinking starts to fall apart a bit

I think Starbuck does remember Earth...when she's freaking out about it and talking to Lee, she says she saw the fluffy white clouds, and she could feel the air in her pores. I dunno, I thought it was a happy memory, not like something she'd experience in a nuclear wasteland.

My fiance read somewhere that a popular theory is that Starbuck is really Ellen...or Ellen's daughter...somehow they are kinda the same. I suppose we'll find out.

>27 jenreidreads: Starbuck as Ellen's daughter, that would be interesting. But didn't we see her mother in a flashback back when?

>22 Irisheyz77: That was my 2nd thought, Gail. My 1st thought is that it's one of those loose ends they have forgotten about and we'll never know.

And where the hell is the moon? Look on the moon! (In the Asimov book, the secret was on the moon).

Sometimes a Great Notion is, for me, the great american novel. But you have to get past page 100 before you settle in. Then it is one sweet ride.

Wow, I am finally catching up with this show. I've kind of been dreading doing it - you know, don't want to admit that one of the best shows - despite its many flaws and craptastic episodes - is finally over. I really liked this episode, despite the fact that I knew by this point most of the things that were going to happen. My favorite part - when Starbuck discovers her charred corpse in the crashed Viper & Leoben is all like "whoa....shit....I'm scared of you now." and runs off. Leoben sticking by Starbuck no matter how weird she gets has kind of been a constant in the show ever since he fixated on her, so the fact that he's running away from her means something. What it means, I'm not quite sure.

Things I wonder about:
(1) When did Starbuck crash? 2000 years in the past?
(2) What the frak IS she now?
(3) What happened to Earth?
(4) How did the Final Five escape Earth/survive/whatever?
(5) How does all of this tie in with the whole idea that the Cylons were created by 12 colonies man?
(6) Why the hell did they waste the Fifth Cylon on Ellen? This one really annoys me. Like others have said, it takes the sting and the significance out of her death. There was an irony in the fact that Tigh - who later finds out he's a cylon - killed his wife for collaborating with them. That irony is kind of lost if she's a cylon too.

I dislike the feeling that the producers are re-writing the rules on us. Either that or the rules the characters all thought existed don't actually exist. But I am intrigued. Mostly by the Cylons or half-Cylon characters at this point. The humans are starting to bore me.

(1) is sort of answered, (2) you have to draw your own conclusions, (3), (4), and (5) are answered, and (6) I dunno, depending on how you look at it it, I feel like it could make it more ironic.

>re your question 6. I believe, Ron Moore said that they thought it would be so cool because she was already dead and no one would guess she would be it. Dumb. (it was in that "Last Frakkin' Special")