Discussion - Episode 4.17 "No Exitl" (SPOILERS)

ConversesBattlestar Galactica

Afegeix-te a LibraryThing per participar.

Discussion - Episode 4.17 "No Exitl" (SPOILERS)

Aquest tema està marcat com "inactiu": L'últim missatge és de fa més de 90 dies. Podeu revifar-lo enviant una resposta.

1littlegeek
Editat: feb. 13, 2009, 1:45am

I won't be watching the episode until Monday as I will be out of town this weekend. I hope Anders survives!

eta: sorry for the typo

2avaland
feb. 13, 2009, 4:39pm

He is one of the final five so he has to - at least long enough for the five to put their rings together and make something happen:-)

3fyrefly98
feb. 13, 2009, 5:02pm

I dunno, he's the most expendable one of the final five, at this point.

Maybe whatever functioning goo-bath brings Ellen back will also be able to bring Sam back, if he does bite it.

4fyrefly98
feb. 13, 2009, 11:27pm

I knew it! I knew Cavil knew who the final five were. Man, now I want to go back and rewatch everything from the S3 onwards to make sure I've got the timeline straight.

Can't sleep, too much awesome.

5avaland
feb. 15, 2009, 6:36pm

That was a MAJOR infodump. To assist with the confusion, Dukedom found this timeline on the internet:

http://acephalous.typepad.com/acephalous/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-a-historic...

Or, at least, this timeline goes up to where the mini-series began.

Humans create some human-like robots from which the five are born (they can procreate). The humans leave Earth for Cobol. The human-like robots remain. They create their own mechanical slaves but their slaves rebel against them, and only the five, who saw annihilation coming and recreated resurrection technology, upload and travel to Cobol in search of the humans to warn them not to make the mistakes that they did. Well, darn, it took them too long to get there and they find the humans and the toaster cylons in a war. They persuade the toasters to stop warring by telling them they will help them build the skin jobs.

Humans --> Human-like Robots and thus the FIVE
|
v
Toasters --> Hybrids --> Skin jobs/the TWELVE models 1-8 are created with the FIVE.

Toasters cannot procreate except mechanically
The Twelve cannot procreate with each other but can:
procreate with humans or the FIVE.

(pardon me for thinking out loud)

So, Cavil knew he was banging one of his creators on New Caprica, but Ellen didn't know at the time she was banging one of her creations - especially one modeled after her father (ewww!)

Bet Starbuck is Daniel's child. There's a resurrection ship/lap orbiting earth and because she is part cylon, she uploaded when she died on Earth. She spent 4 months reconstructing her ship(?) OK, the ship somehow uploaded also(?)

6kawika
feb. 16, 2009, 2:51am

The theory regarding Starbuck is interesting and pretty plausible to me. We won't know for sure until they reveal the truth about Daniel, but his artistic roots do tie into Kara's. Also, it would explain what's-his-name's obsession with Kara back on New Caprica to the point where he would isolate her, try to get her to love him, and want to procreate.

I also thought Ellen was an interesting choice due to her rampant proclivities taken with all the other men other than Sol. It would seem that there is some sort of block of the five procreating with each other for some reason. I began to wonder if Ellen's being so unfaithful might not have been some sort of programming/memory leak that made her want to find a man with whom she could have a child on some level. I wasn't expecting to like her as the fifth, but I think she and the director played it spot on in this episode.

I'm still not clear on when Sol came into Bill's life. The five, like the others, don't seem to age, so when, exactly did that happen?

Also nice to see Cavil lose it and maybe have Sharon redeem herself some, though I'm not sure it isn't an overarching plot for Cavil to bring the five back together so he can try to accomplish his goal. It would seem the Cylons' overall plan were completely secondary to Cavil's desire for retribution.

7jenreidreads
feb. 16, 2009, 11:49am

I love that Cavil is back in full force. Of course, that might be because I love Dean Stockwell. :) I thought this was a great episode since it explained so much. Well, kinda. I'm really curious about Daniel.

8fyrefly98
feb. 16, 2009, 1:26pm

>6 kawika: I'm still not clear on when Sol came into Bill's life. The five, like the others, don't seem to age, so when, exactly did that happen?

The five age. In flashbacks in the beginning of S2 (in "Scattered", I think?), we see Saul and Bill maybe 10-odd years after the first Cylon War, and Saul's got hair.

I am about 99.9% certain that Daniel is Kara's father, and that's why she was able to resurrect (my guess is that the resurrection ship circling Earth is more of a factory - able to build new bodies and Vipers? - instead of the regular goo-bath kind), why she saw Chip!Leoben in Maelstrom, and why she's got her big ol' Special Destiny... it's because she's the first Cybrid (or at least the first child of one of the non-FF skin-jobs... we don't know whether her mother is really her mother.)

I've got a friend who is convinced that Baltar is Daniel, post-Cavil-mucking-with-his-DNA. I don't want that to be true, but it does explain a lot of things (why Baltar can see Chip!Six, all that talk about Baltar and Six's baby being the face of a new generation, etc.), and fits pretty well with everything else.

9kawika
feb. 16, 2009, 4:20pm

The biggest problem I can see with Gaius being Daniel is that, from what has been said so far, they are complete opposites. Daniel was an artist and very sensitive. Baltar was a brilliant scientist, so the strengths don't seem to play towards each other. Did Cavil actually say he messed with their DNA or just their memories?

As to a younger Sol, that's just a flashback. That's assuming Sol was a cylon back then and we've seen no evidence of any of the five aging. In all the recent flashbacks, none have looked any younger or older that I can recall. However, it is now claimed that memories can be altered and implanted, so it could also be possible that they took a younger Sol and implanted all his memories and such into a newly born and constructed cylon.

10fyrefly98
feb. 16, 2009, 4:30pm

>9 kawika: So, if it's true, that's part of Cavil messing with Daniel's DNA - he was a sensitive artist, the favored one of the gods (or at least Ellen), so as punishment (of both him and Ellen), Cavil made him into an insensitive scientist and atheist. If it's true.

Also, I think the FF have to be able to age, because on pre-holocaust Earth, their compatriots were reproducing biologically, which would presumably indicate children. I shudder to think of the poor woman giving birth to an adult Tyrol.

11avaland
feb. 16, 2009, 4:52pm

We watched the episode again, pausing every few minutes to make sure we understood the timeline and what was being said. Cavil suffocated the five and somehow blocked them access to their memories when they uploaded in rebirth. They were then planted at different times, Saul was the first to be deposited with the colonists sometime after the 1st Cylon war. They were given false memories as were the other skin-jobs (i.e. Boomer) when they were planted in the fleet.

Yes, I agree that the Five (I hesitate to call them 'final' now) have to be able to age in order to pass as human whether we as viewers have seen it or not; but, this brings up another question. If they age, are they reborn at the age in which they die as Ellen seems to have. But, then again, Cavil is pissed that he has an aged body with typical upper middle age problems - was it always so (Ellen, in referring to the 'boy' that she created, might have meant it literally or figuratively). But then again, the visions the Five had of themselves while on Earth shows them to be the same age. . .

Gawd, I hope that's not true about Daniel/Gaius. I like the Starbuck theory better. Her father was allegedly a musician; but what we don't know if humans and the FIVE can procreate together (since Callie's baby turned out to be human-human). But, yeah, Kara could indeed be the first cybrid. But then, why would Hera be so special.

What if Baltar ended up to be Daniel who ended up being Starbuck's father? Wheeeeee. (bit of a stretch age-wise)

And where do you think Anders is? Is he dead? Will he show up somewhere else? In someone else? Are they still close enough to Earth that he might upload and regenerate?

12littlegeek
feb. 16, 2009, 6:48pm

Why couldn't Daniel have fathered both Kara & Gaius? He was a cylon, presumably with more than one copy.

I'm still not over Gaeta's death and the whole infodump just seems like way more complicated than it needs to be. I don't want to work this hard. Somewhat hard, but not this hard.

When will it all be over?

13avaland
feb. 17, 2009, 12:36pm

>12 littlegeek: just five more episodes, littlegeek. Hang on.

Good point about possible multiple children. . .

14fannyprice
març 29, 2009, 10:37am

>4 fyrefly98:,fyrefly98 - That's how I felt when I realized that Cavil knew who the final five were the whole time. At least two incidents come to mind - he was in the group with Anders on Caprica at some point and the whole sleeping with Ellen thing on New Caprica. Was he the one who cut out Tigh's eye? Cavil is really sick. I think we've had that reinforced for us now. Its odd though - all the other models revere the final five. Cavil loathes them and loves to see them debased/injured.

15fannyprice
març 29, 2009, 10:44am

avaland, thanks for linking to that timeline. I was completely wrong about the order of events.