Group read - Over Sea, Under Stone

A couple friends and I were thinking of doing a group read with the book Over Sea, Under Stone by Susan Cooper. We thought it would be more fun, however, with more people so if anyone would be interested in joining us, please do! None of us have started to read the book yet, but maybe we could set a date (probably two or three weeks from now) to plan on being done with the book.

If anyone's interested, let me know!

If I can locate my copy of the book, I will join in.

I read this 20 or more years ago. It was enjoyable enough that a reread is in order. (If I can find my copy.) Count me in.

I'll reread it if the group gets going.

Yippee! I'm so excited people are interested! I finally found my copy (I moved recently and it was hidden in one of my many boxes of books) and I'll be starting it tonight.

Rebecca
Terri expressed interest (as noted on my thread.)
This is exciting. I'm glad it is coming to fruition.

How does July 1 sound to start reading? Or, any other suggestions are most welcome.

I have the books and I'm looking forward to this.

Thanks for getting this started!

I will be out of town until July 8 so I won't be able to really join the discussion until then. Could we postpone it one week?

fine with me.

I would hope that at least some of this group might, as a few others have commented, want to move on through the series. The second book, The Dark is Rising, is in my top tier of great story-telling.

I think that my daughter has a copy of this book and I will look for it. I have been wanting to read these books for a while. I will be out of town for the beginning of July, but will try to join in when I get back home!
--BJ

I will join in if I get the time. I am not doing well in my other group reads, if you know what I mean.

>9 ronincats:: I was also hoping we could go through all the books, probably over the period of a few months. I've heard great things about the series so I would love to keep reading it!

Count me in! The book is waiting for me at the library!

I'll join too!

I'm in - I've been meaning to read this for ages (I can't remember if I read it at school or not...)

Is July 8 a good date to plan on being finished with the book and starting a discussion or does that not work for anyone (sorry it couldn't be sooner but I'll be out of town from July 1-8 for a wedding in Georgia)?

Works for me! (that is just the date for finishing the first book, right?)

>17 alcottacre:: Yes! I figured that would give everyone more than enough time to finish reading the book. There's nothing worse than being forced to read a book quickly. Takes all the fun out of it...

Works for me also. I'll be ready.

I should be back home by then as well, so count me in!

If I can manage it, I'll do it too!

Wow, this book is quite short, I think I will finally be able to make it.

Just found this thread - I'm in! I would love to read the whole series as well - I never have before. I have the first book and will start on it soon :)

Happy travels to all of you who will be away the beginning of July - hope you're all going some place fun :)

I finally found the book, so I am all set to go. I will be out of town until about July 13th, but I will plan to catch up on the discussion then. If we read all the books in order, I will need to know which one is next as I am sorry to say that they are scattered throughout the house. Organization is not my thing. But I did come across one or two while looking for this one. See you when I get back in town! :)
--BJ

billiejean, the next book in the series is The Dark is Rising, followed by Greenwitch, The Grey King, and then Silver on the Tree completes the set. Hope this helps!

Thanks so much. That is just what I needed to know. :) I cannot wait to start this book.
--BJ

Just found this thread! If I can get it at the Library tomorrow count me in!

Huzzah! Finished it over the weekend. Looking forward to discussion, whenever we decide that will be. :)

Yay! I managed to finish it too! All set for the discussion.

I'm done too - and today is the 8th right?

So, what did everyone think??

I loved it. Couldn't put it down. I especially liked the Arthurian bits--if this is, as they say, the weakest in the series, I'm all over the rest of them! And it's not really even my style of book! Thanks for the rec, whoever it was!

For me, it really felt like a prequel. Had I not known there were books after this, I would have been disappointed. Maybe it's because there wasn't something bigger with the chalice, but the entire book almost felt like one giant build-up for (hopefully) the rest of the series.

Did anyone else get this feeling?

Well, I agree that the ending felt a little rushed - it was this important quest, and then it was just over. And, I couldn't believe that they didn't go searching for the second manuscript - no way would I have been able to leave it floating in the water!

But, I did really love the book. There was quite a gap between this book and the next (I think about 10 years), so I wonder if Cooper planned on writing it as a series all along, or if she only responded to its success.

Don't get me wrong, I also loved the book and I am excited to read the rest of the series, but you said it really well Cait86. The ending was rushed (and I would have gone after that manuscript too! They seemed so content to just leave it...)

I just finished it tonight and loved it!

I'm not sure I thought the ending was rushed. I thought they did a good job of finishing as much of their quest as they could but at the same time the bad guys seemed to just disappear without a problem and yes - they should have gone after the manuscript!
I guess I got the feeling that Uncle Merry had every intention of going back and finding it at a latter date...

I cannot wait to read the rest of the series!

So, there is a gap between this one and the next - does anyone know if the characters in Over Sea, Under Stone are in The Dark is Rising?

The second book has only one character in common with the first, but they all get together in Book 3 and address the issue you are discussing!

I finished it up in the wee hours. I loved it, too. Did anyone else think while they were confronting Mr. Hastings up on the bluff, it's the Battle of Hastings? No, I thought not - it is just me and my weird mental musings, lol.

LOL Stasia...

I found it a bit slow to start, to be honest... I looked at how far we'd come and thought "hmm... we're not at the meat of the story yet and I'm halfway through..." but in the end, I found it to be enjoyable for what it was and really look forward to the rest of the series. It was also pretty interesting in that the location was very limited - the children kept going back to the same 3 or 4 places, over and over. Unusual for a fantasy-style story.

Faith, I think I found that one of the things I liked about the story. It was a fantasy-style story, but for the most part, it was very self-contained, which gave it a hint of some kind of reality. To me, that's a great fantasy story--one that could MAYBE happen!

I'm not even sure I would call this fantasy, at least not in the way that I would call Pullman's His Dark Materials or C. S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia fantasy - it had hints of fantasy, but technically, while I don't really believe in King Arthur and the Holy Grail and all of that, finding a chalice or manuscript from the early Medieval period could potentially happen. We still have lots of cultural evidence from that time period.

Now, if Uncle Merry really is Merlin, then that is a definite fantasy element! Since this series is generally classified as fantasy, I am guessing that the books become much more of a traditional fantasy.

>40 Cait86:: They'll be fantasy...trust me...

I just finished the book and really loved it. I agree that it did seem to need sequels after it, too. I could not believe that they did not dive for the other manuscript. I loved that the dog, Barney's companion, saved him from Mr. Hastings. I am off to look for the next book somewhere in this house.
--BJ

Wow, I regret that I couldn't join in...yet. My girlfriend has had the last two weeks off and doesn't go back to work until Sunday. So, hopefully after that I can grab a copy and read it. Sounds just like my "cup of tea." And hopefully *crosses fingers* this will become a series group read?

Though, I did have today to myself, and instead of reading, I updated my 50 books thread with overdue reviews!

Just like me to always find the best threads a little too late!

I have just dusted down my copy of this book and I'll try to re-read in the next day or so - but for the record, this is probably my favourite book series of all time. As mentioned above (I think by Roni), this book seems to have been written as a standalone adventure, and its only with the next book that there is a clear intention to write a series. The next book is wonderful though - and I am definitely going to re-read that if there is a group read.

Incidentally, there is a slight incongruity between this book and the next as Susan Cooper tries to update the setting to what was then the present day for the second book. I will say no more in case anyone wants to see if they can spot it.

I think that Cooper always intended this book to be the first of a series, but perhaps didn't have her vision developed fully for the whole series when she wrote it. Not getting the second manuscript was definitely deliberate and a key part of the series. However, when I read the first, I didn't realize she would be continuing the story in another 8 years, so in that sense it read as a stand-alone.

I enjoyed the kids' interaction--so typical of British literature, such as Nesbitt and Alan Garner. I also liked Rufus' contribution. The next book takes a right turn into full fantasy mode and is my favorite of the series, although the third, Greenwitch, which brings the cast of the first two books together and which was initially my least favorite, has over the years greatly improved its standing. I hope you'll all continue on when we finish this book discussion!

Ok I re-read this now, and found I had forgotten some parts of it. On re-reading, yes I agree - it is clear that Susan Cooper always intended a series with this book. However, I do think the series she wrote is probably not quite the series she intended when she wrote this one book.

I also felt that this book owes some of its heritage to Enid Blyton. That may seem like a terrible thing to say, as Enid Blyton tends to cause people to turn their noses up! But I can imagine a young Susan Cooper reading famous five books whilst on holiday in Mevagissey, giving her some ideas for this book.

On the other hand, there is a much richer plot forming in this book which really blossoms in the next one. Like Roni says - the next book is pretty much the perfect children's book. One that you put down and immediately want to start reading again.

Some trivia about this book: Trewissick is a made up name, but the location for this story is clearly Mevagissey, five miles from St Austell in Cornwall. Susan Cooper merely changes the name, and some of the buildings she mentions can actually be seen there. Susan Cooper used to holiday in Mevagissey as a child. (I had a friend in Mevagissey when I was younger, as it happens - so I also got to know it fairly well).

Near Mevagissey is a village called Trevissick. There is more or less nothing in Trevissick. Just a cross roads and a farm. But Susan Cooper clearly used that village name for her imagined Mevagissey.

In Cornish there is no word "Trew", but "Trev" means village. Issick or Gissick is then the name of a river or a saint or somesuch that seems to be associated with the area,

There is no Kemare head in Mevagissey, but I think there may be a Kenmare head in Plymouth. However that etymology is suspect, as the Cornish for king is Myghtern (sorry, don't know if that is spelled right in Cemmyn - I never learned the revised orthography).

Still, its a good story - so why ruin it with such details :) (Sorry - was slipping into pedantic mode there).

Thanks, sirfurboy! Those were some interesting little tidbits! I always like those extra notes about a book.

ditto what terri said.

Oooh love the 'extras' too! Very interesting!

Well, it looks like discussion has kind of died down a bit so I was wondering if we're all ready to move on to The Dark Is Rising or if everyone would like to keep discussing Over Sea, Under Stone?

Well how about we set a date for a group read of "The Dark is Rising"? Should that be in a new thread though? How long do we usually give for a group read? 2 weeks? 4 weeks?

Whilst we are reading, we can still keep commenting here if we wish.

I am in however and whenever we decide to do it~

Thanks for the tidbits, Stephen. That's the stuff we Americans so easily miss out on, and it's fascinating.

Time frame usually depends in part on whether people are waiting to get a copy of the book still, or if it is in hand.

How many people are in on going on to The Dark is Rising, and who has it in hand or needs time to get it? I'm in, and I have the book.

I dug out the entire series while looking for the first one, so I have them all in hand and can start whenever.

I can start right away too!

People who responded on this thread as wanting to read at least the first book:
sten, TadAd, Whisper, billiejean, tloeffler, Cait 86, flissp, dkphoenix, Piyush, WilowRaven, MidnightTears, and then the 4 of us who have already weighed in--sirfurboy, RebeccaAnn, alcottacre and me. Let us hear from the rest of you, and anyone else interested!

And those who haven't already commented on the first book, yes, keep discussing it here!

I am definitely interested in reading the next book. I haven't found it yet -- although I have found two others. Somehow they got all scattered throughout the house and I guess we have too many books. Start whenever and I will catch up.
--BJ

I have a copy of The Dark is Rising and I am ready to go : )

I have the Dark is Rising in paper and as an ebook, so I can start anytime.

I will go to the library tomorrow and get The Dark is Rising - why didn't I buy it today when I was in the bookstore??

I found it! I am ready to go whenever. :)
--BJ

I have my copy (and the rest of the series) at hand, so I can start whenever.

Copies are available in the library, so I'll pick one up tonight!

>56 ronincats:: *shrug* I re-read it...not much to say that hasn't already been said...sometimes by me. :-) This is a pleasant book but, if it were the only one she wrote, I doubt I'd think much about it. The series doesn't become memorable until The Dark is Rising, imo.

So should we set a date to try and be finished by? Off the top of my head, I was thinking August 8. It's exactly one month from when we finished Over Sea, Under Stone and it gives us a little over a couple weeks to read the book. Does this work for everyone or would more or less time be more appropriate?

I'll be away on the 8th but could join in soon after. I'm sure I could finish the book by then.

Maybe start another thread?

We could start when you get back, WilowRaven. I just said the 8th because it seemed logical but a week later wouldn't be bad either. I don't want anyone to miss out.

And yes, I agree another thread would probably be good.

RebeccaAnn

Congratulations on your hot review for Over Sea, Under Stone!

And, thanks for spearheading this group read.

>68 Whisper1:: Thanks for pointing that out to me Linda! I hadn't even noticed ;)

Nice review RebeccaAnn :)

oh - I'll be back at my computer on the 10th so it's ok if we end the 8th :)

I'm really looking forward to continuing with the series - before I was even finished with Over Sea, Under Stone I was on BookMooch and PBS looking for the others!

August 8th as an ending date works for me!

Me too!

Same here. I have the book from the library, and have started it, and I expect I'll be finished in no time. So far, compelling!

I haven't started the book yet, but I will soon. Are we just going to keep on this thread for The Dark is Rising or are we starting a new one? My daughter told me last night that this is one of her favorite books! Yea!
--BJ

I think we should continue to use this thread until the number of posts becomes unwieldy. What does everyone else think?

I don't mind keeping this thread going...a new thread with a new title (group read of dark is rising instead of over sea, under stone) might lead more people to join...but we have a bunch already...
guess I'm ok with either :)

enough typing - back to reading!

Moving this thread up to the top of the list to remind everyone, we start discussing The Dark is Rising next Saturday, so it's time to think about starting the reading!

I just got The Dark Is Rising yesterday, I'm in.

I just finished it yesterday. Anxious to get started talking about it!

ETA anxious to get started talking about it. Didn't make sense the other way.

I'm almost through Great Expectations and as soon as I'm finished with that book, I'll be digging into The Dark is Rising. I'm excited! It looks excellent!

Edited because I left out several nouns, which are necessary to understanding a sentence.

Nouns are overrated.

Surely you meant to say:

"Are overrated".

:)

Touche!

I just finished The Dark is Rising, can't wait to start discussing!

edited to correct typo.

I'm about halfway through the book and so far, I'm loving it! It's fantastic and exciting! I'll be staying up late to finish it tonight since I don't have to work tomorrow. I'm also excited to start the discussion!

Finished it this morning!

Its the 8th today, and I finished re-reading yesterday. I have updated my review but some extra thoughts here:

I still love this book. It is one of my all time favourites, and taking the series as a whole, I think this may be my favourite series ever. It is one of those books you just want to slow down and savour and then when you finish it you start over again.

Like Over Sea and Under Stone, the location in this book is set in a real place, but once again Susan Cooper has played with the names just a little. Huntercombe is based on Dorney in Buckinghamshire. In fact, at one point the village of Dorney even gets mentioned as "The Dorney End of the village"

The manor house is Dorney Court which is in private ownership but is currently open to the public through August.

http://www.dorneycourt.co.uk/

The Church of St James the Less is a real 12th century church in Dorney. You can see information about it and the Parish (which is thus the extent of fictional Huntercombe) here:

http://www.achurchnearyou.com/parish.php?p=27/655

There are some pictures of its interior here:

http://www.stjohnstjamesed.org.uk/page8.html

It is a very interesting church to visit even if you haven't read this book!

On the parish link above you are linked to a google map. If you go to satellite view and zoom in you will see the church is hidden by trees and to the north east are some buildings including a very large one. The large one is Dorney Court (the manor) a fine tudor mansion house. If I have read it right, the Stantons live in the buildings opposite the manor and thus you can see their house too - but I think Susan Cooper plays a bit with the geography because at the end of the book the walk back from the manor seems longer.

Scroll the map a little to the south and east and you find Dawson's farm. In the book this seems closer to the Stanton house so either I located that wrong, or else the Stantons walked in the back way through the fields.

Where Court Lane road meets Lake end road there is the mock tudor house we are told is owned by a business man. Follow lake end road north, and across the bridge and the M4 motorway (which was built between this book and the last one and is thus not mentioned) and you will find Lake End Road becomes "Huntercombe Lane". Susan Cooper just shifted the road name south!

Go back to the church and follow court lane road around into Marsh Lane and you find Dorney Village proper "The Dorney End".

The common starts near Dawson's farm and works south to the Thames.

When I was about 16 or 17 I judged myself old enough to take a train and a bus and very deliberately visited this location (without telling anyone in case they thought I was silly!). I had read the book first some years earlier but had recently re-read it and scouted out the locations without the aid of google maps (but with a nice ordnance survey map). I remember my delight at finding the Church was named exactly as in the books! I have photos somewhere but not scanned and not of very high quality.

Oh and there were definitely crows and very possibly rooks in "Rooks Wood" (near the junction of court lane road and village road).

If anyone is interested perhaps I could put together a google map with locations marked.

*

On some pedantic notes:

(1) We are told the viking longship waited 1500 years, but the first viking raid on British shores was the attack on Lindisfarne monastery in the 8th century, so maybe Merriman was a little off with his dates there.

(2) In Over Sea and under stone the currency is predecimilisation. In this book the children are given a sixpence (pre-decimal) from a horde that has been reserved for that purpose, and thus the events of this book must take place after the decimilisation in February 1971. Susan Cooper seemed to try to keep updating the books to be present day, which makes for a few continuity errors.

I am sure there were others but none of them really matter. :)

Calloo, callay, oh frabjous day! It's the 8th and we can start!

WOW, Stephen!!! How neat! As an American, these are the things that are just background to the story, and how it enriches the experience to be able to see these things and how Cooper built on existing structures. Thank you so much.

As I also have said in the past, this is my favorite book of the series. It is one of my favorite books, period. The atmosphere, the structure, the prose, all combine to make it a completely satisfying read for me. I always close the book at the end with a sigh of repletion. Now THIS was a story!

That said, I know not everyone reacts the same. Indeed, someone (I forget who) in the 75 book challenge group read it this year simply because it was on a list of classics and didn't care for it at all--no character development, they said.

What made this read enjoyable for you? What caveats did you have?

I enjoyed the book, but probably not as much as ronincats :P

For me, I'm in the lack of character development department. I wasn't fond of the fact that all he had to do was read a book which took only a few moments and suddenly he knew everything. I enjoy the journey the hero undertakes, mentally and/or physically, towards beating the evil guy. The Dark is Rising had a bit of that, with having to find the signs first and the other two things of power, but it just seemed like it was guaranteed win and Will really didn't have to work for his powers and knowledge.

I hope that made sense. I just finished reading the book about an hour ago and yes, it was a fun read and I greatly enjoyed it, but I don't think it'll be in my list of top reads for 2009.

Although I must admit, I loved the voice of the book. The scenes with the Rider were breathtaking. They were definitely my favorite parts of the book ;-)

Thanks so much for all the background info on the book. That makes it so much more real. I loved the story and I liked that it linked to the other story through Uncle Merry. Interestingly, it did seem like a victory, but there are other books for the quests. So I guess that it was a battle and not the war. I found the Walker interesting and also the interactions of the large family. For a while I thought it was the 11th kid turning 11 (before I found out that there were only 10 kids), but it was the 7th son of the 7th son. So I am not sure why 11 was the key year. All in all, it was a great quick read, and I am glad that I finally read it.
--BJ

I also like the fact that it seems as if the first four books are going be battles for one of the main magical objects which I'm guessing will make the fifth book kind of like the main boss fight. I do think that's a neat aspect to the series that you don't see very often. The series is much more a combined effect. Even though each book is more or less self-contained, without the others I think there would definitely be something missing. It wouldn't feel very complete...

I am also in grateful awe to Stephen for his local insights. It really does bring the book home for me!
And though, like RebeccaAnn, I'm not chortling in my joy as much as Roni is, I did like the book and am anxious to continue on with the series. It was a fun fantasy. I think I mentioned in my 75-book thread that I didn't see the connection between this book and the first, although someone (Roni? RebeccaAnn? I can't remember and don't want to lose this message to go back and look) said it comes together in later books. Even if it doesn't, if the others are as entertaining, I shall continue!
Thanks to RebeccaAnn for starting this group read. This is not usually my genre, and I'm thrilled to have been introduced to it!

>92 tloeffler:: You're welcome! I'm definitely having a fantastic time! I have no friends who read so therefore, I have no one but my fellow LTers to have book related discussions with. I love these group reads!

Disclaimer: While I didn't enjoy the book as much as ronincats, I'm still very much enjoying the series and I'm excited to see what happens in the future books (I think everything coming together at the end will really make the series work for me).

I'm sorry that you don't have friends who read. I've been very fortunate that my sons are copious readers, as well as one of my nieces and one of my nephews, and the ladies in my book group, so I can pick the most interesting person to match the book. Even the security guard at our church bingo looks forward to the nights I work so we can talk books! I heard a quote once that said "The only thing better than reading a book is talking about it." I totally agree with that!

I totally agree with that quote Terri!

As for The Dark is Rising, my favourite parts were the interactions between all the Stantons. They seemed like a very real family, with normal sibling bonds. I love when fantasy includes elements of non-fantasy too - characters in a fantasy novel should still be normal people, even if they aren't actually normal people - if you know what I mean? I guess it makes the fantasy more believable if I also identify with the characters in a human aspect. Will's worry for Mary and his mother, for example, made his character more endearing.

However, I do think that some of the explanations were too simple. I feel like this is where YA fantasy often falls short - since I am a critical reader, I always have so many questions, and I want longer explanations. I think that is one of the reasons I love the Harry Potter series so much - Rowling explains everything, right down to the last detail. For me, this book could have been significantly longer. Tell me more about the Old Ones - are they all seventh sons of seventh sons? Obviously not, since some are women, but then what makes them Old Ones? Why is Will the last of the Old Ones - what about the next boy who is born 7th of a 7th? And, what exactly is an Old One, besides a fighter of the Dark? I could go on, LOL. Maybe we will get further info in later books??

Yes, to all of the above! Great insight, Rebecca Ann, into the structure of the series. Yes, there's a reason Will is the last.

Can you believe, in the movie, they made Will a visiting American, 15 or so, whose family mistreats him? I agree with Cait that the interactions and relationships between the Stantons added an important facet to the story. I haven't seen the movie, but word is it stripped the story of everything that made it work!

I agree with RebeccaAnn about the character development. And really, Will was supposed to be the savior, the last Old One, the Sign Seeker, but he didn't really do much. Merriman had to save him constantly, and all Will did was hold up some signs, read a book, and lead a horse to The Hunter, which he did not actually do on purpose.

That being said, I did love the book and can't wait to read the next one. I agree with Cait86 about the family connections and the lack of answers. I hope all will be revealed in time.

#97 - Hmm, well, I think a lot of heroes don't really succeed based on their own skills, but based on luck, and the help of others. Where would Frodo be without Sam, where would Harry be without Hermione and Ron, where would Arthur be without Merlin, etc? No man is an island, and all that, you know? Also, I think that heroes are interesting because they need help - again, it makes them more relatable.

Roni, after that info on the movie, I think I will give it a pass!

You're right, Cait86. I guess I was just witing for Will to do something superhuman to prove his Seekerness, but its not just his battle, its the Old Ones standing together against the Dark.

I'm right?! You have no idea how seldom I hear that! LOL

#98: I think you have hit the nail on the head as far as what makes heroes heroes, Cait: they know they need help to get the job done. If they had no help, more than likely they would not be heroes, they would be hero-wanna-bes.

In addition to the questions in 95, here are a few of mine that were unanswered (at least, to the best of my knowledge they were):

Will is the Sign-Seeker and this makes him unique amongst the Old Ones. This implies that each of the Old Ones has unique gifts of some sort. What are they?

Why is it impossible for one from the Dark to kill one from the Light and vice versa?

If Will is on the side of the Light, why did the rabbits and other animals react so horribly to him in the beginning? The Light symbolizes the good, so why were animals afraid of him?

Similarly, why was the radio affected by Will's presence?

When Paul played the flute, the Rider and Maggie both seemed affected by it. What happened there? Is there something special about the flute or about Paul?

Who were the boys in the forest? You know, the ones that sang/chanted the second verse of the "prophecy" to will. Some had musical instruments I think. What is their significance? They just kind of showed up, sang, and left. Did I miss the explanation of this?

And as far as the movie goes, I'm watching it right now and it's really not that great. I'm a fan of Christopher Eccleston (him being the only Doctor from Doctor Who that I actually enjoyed) but honestly, the acting's pretty poor in the movie. And yes, the entire plot has been drastically changed. There's only five physical signs and the sixth sign is from a human soul. I'm not done with the movie so I don't know where's it going but I'll probably watch the entire thing, so I'll let you all know tomorrow if you're interested!

And if anyone knows the answers to my questions (it's always a possibility that I just missed it in the text), feel free to let me know! I always love to have more information about a book!

Some answers to your questions Rebecca (from my reading at least - others might disagree):

1. Being the last Old One it may be only Will (and the first old one) have additional powers other Old Ones do not have. But they all have a role and a place in history. This is Will's Story, but you will be familiar with the stories of some of the other Old Ones when you meet them in later books.

2. The Old Ones and the servants of the Dark are immortal. They cannot kill each other for the same reason Greek gods could not kill each other. However that analogy is not quite right, but additionally it seems that there are three magics in Susan Cooper's world - Dark magic, light magic and wild magic. But all the magics are bound by rules (less so, presumably, the wild magic). The magic will not work outside of the laws much like physical laws of the universe that prevent us from walking through walls and such like.

3. The animals are afraid of the power they sense. Will's power is untamed. He does not radiate goodness at that point - he radiates power.

4. The radio was affected again by the untamed power. Presumably untamed radiating magic causes radio interference over short distances. I could speculate how this is so (I would guess it creates a localised magnetic field of some kind) but I suspect that Suasn Cooper did not imagine a physical reason - it was just the point that Will was radiating untamed power.

5. Both? Neither? I am not quite sure except that it is clear that Susan Cooper sees a kind of power in music - perhaps because of the way it stirs our souls.

6. Some things don't get fully explained - they add to the mystery and the sense that Will is a part of something much larger and incredibly ancient.

Regarding the movie, I could tell from the trailer I would hate it - I watched it anyway and disliked it more than I expected. It did not help that it clearly was not even filmed in the UK! The locations don't look British at all.

Incidentally, recent academic research has shown that students who watch a Hollywood movie where historical facts are altered, and are then presented with the actual history tend to retain the movie version in their minds and make mistakes in history! Personally I get very angry with movies that "adapt" stories - true or fictional - and now I have reason to!

I'm in the same boat as a few of you... not enough character development, Will doesn't really do a whole lot. While the book as a whole was entertaining, I'm not sure that I would continue reading the series if we weren't doing it as a group read. At this point, I'm curious to see where the story goes (and have my questions answered!) but I'm not drop-dead in love with the book. I wonder if I would enjoy it more on a second read, after getting through the rest of the series...?

I'll admit, I think I liked Over Sea, Under Stone more than this one. It could also have something to do with the fact that I read this one while very, very tired, and fell asleep twice while trying to get through it. LOL!

>103 sirfurboy:: Thanks sirfurboy! I'll admit the questions about the animals and the radio, I had my suspicions as to the answer. I understand why the animals were affected but I still wish I knew why the radio went wonky but not, say, the lights. I also wish I knew more about the other Old Ones but there are three more books to read and you're right, this one was about Will.

I still wish she had gone more into depth about the power of music. I don't know where you're getting that in the text. I don't remember any mention of music in either the first or the second book. Am I missing something or will the come out later in the next three books? Or is it something we're just supposed to pick up on from that scene?

And I really want to know about those boys in the forest! Grrr....

Since I am reading the series for the first time, too, I do not know if Cooper answers all the questions or not, but I certainly hope so!

One other thing that I noticed in the book was that the Dark was using snow, which is white, to its advantage. I think that had more to do with the cold and lack of transportation, but I did notice that dark/white contrast.
--BJ

>105 RebeccaAnn:

Rebecca, I think some of the stuff about music can be deduced in later books (don't want to give any spoilers though) but I admit I am not certain about my answer there in any case. It is just the feeling that I had from my reading of the work.

Regarding why the radio and not the lights was affected (and with a huge disclaimer that there is absolutely no evidence Susan Cooper thought this deeply on the issue):

A radio works by inducing a tiny electrical current in an antenna which is struck by waves of electromagnetic radiation travelling through space (there are a few words there that physicists will argue with - "struck" is maybe not quite right for instance, but it will do for this explanation).

This electrical current is then passed through a circuit which consists, at its simplest, a diode to chop the current in half, a capacitor to choose the wavelength you are interested in, and a speaker with optional amplifier. We can assume that the Stantons were listening to the radio using Amplitude Modulation as at the time the book was written, most stations still broadcast AM and not FM. FM is a little less susceptible to the following effect:

This being the case you need to induce just a very small electrical current in an antenna to cause interference. The current induced normally is tiny - and compared to the 60 watts or 100 watts of power in a standard electric light, it is completely dwarfed.

Now suppose someone is radiating a magnetic field (which is pretty weird - but then, so is the whole concept of magic) - magnetic fields decrease in proportion to the square of the distance you are from the field, and thus usually you must be very close to a magnetic field to feel its effects. Thus as Will gets close to the radio his magnetic field induces an electrical current in the antenna across all frequencies and swamps the signal into the radio. On the other hand, most of the time he is not even close to the lights. When he gets close to the ring main, he does indeed induce a small current in the circuit which perhaps causes the lights to shine a tad brighter - but flickers in lights are common as the grid adjusts generating capacity and as demand dips and spikes - thus a small flicker will go unnoticed.

>108 sirfurboy:: Wow, that's fantastic information there that really lends a whole new dimension to the books. I hadn't really thought about it that way (obviously) and really, I appreciate you taking the time to write it all out for me!

A deeper understanding into a book through physics! Who knew?

I, for one, am glad to have sirfurboy along with us for the reads!

#105 - I thought music was pretty prevalent in this book. We see the happiness carols at Christmas can bring, and the secret pleasure even the older, grown Stanton children get from singing. As well, the Manor, which is a pretty important magical location, has the collection of old musical instruments, and Will often hears that myterious tune when something magical is about to happen.

Looks like discussion has died down again. Is September 8th a good day to begin discussing Greenwitch? A month for each book seems to have worked out so far, so I thought I'd just continue the tradition but anyone has veto power. Just let me know!

Fine with me!

Good by me. Greenwitch is probably the shortest of the books.

Still looking for it, but I will find another copy if I need to. I am ready for the story to continue, so September 8th is great for me. :)
--BJ

Fine with me also.

I'll do my best to finish by then :)

I noticed this and dug out my omnibus version. I am still playing catch-up on the re-read I am near the end of Over Sea, Under Stone. If you don't mind can I join in for Greenwitch? (If I finish in time.)

Trying to find a copy. If I get one soon, the date fits me fine.

>120 calm:: I think I speak for the group when I say "Heck yes! Welcome aboard!"

>120 calm:: I think I speak for the group when I say "Heck yes! Welcome aboard!"

I think RebeccaAnn speaks for the group when she says "Heck yes! Welcome aboard!"

And I also accept Sept 8 as the date for Greenwitch. I'm off to the library as we speak.

I accidently mooched an extra copy of Silver on the Tree so if anyone is interested let me know and I'll send it to ya!

Thanks all, I am so glad that I had the books.

The more the merrier, calm!

Just sending out a reminder that we'll be discussing Greenwitch in nine days.

Woo hoo!

I pulled out my copy to get it read this week. Thanks for the reminder!

I grabbed a library copy at lunch, and it's old. I think that is just going to enhance my experience--some books are just meant to read in an old binding.

Whee, I just realized it's time to re-read Greenwitch this weekend! Woohoo!

I haven't even started reading it yet. With classes starting, I'm already swamped with work. I'm hoping to start it tomorrow though...

I read it this past week, so I am caught up on exactly 1 of my group reads, lol.

Rebecca, it is really short, more novella length, so it will go quickly. I hear you--I have two reports to write and a Wednesday night class to prepare this weekend!

I finished it last night!

Me too.

This morning!

Last night as well!

I can't find one anywhere!

Cheaters. I've been sitting on it, waiting patiently for September 7 (which is tomorrow, by the way). Guess I'll have to go with the flow and read it tonight. Dang it!

Hey, by tomorrow night I'm slammed with reports and class prep! I needed to do it over the weekend. You take your time--we're not going to talk about it until the 8th regardless.

Take my time--well, that didn't happen! I finished it tonight, in about an hour. I guess I'm ready too!

I saw all the unread posts that I had on this thread and got worried that I was missing the entire discussion and thought I had the deadline wrong! Well, I never found my copy of the book, so yesterday I went looking for another copy having to go to 2 bookstores to find one. And I read it last night between football and tennis. So I am ready to go! :)
--BJ

I've started it and am about 2/3 of the way done. I'll likely finish it tonight or tomorrow so I may be a day late for the discussion, but I'll be there eventually!

Hey, it's the 8th! Where is everybody?

I finished it! And I actually liked it... er... more than the previous two books. Is that odd? I liked the interactions between the characters a lot this time around, as I felt it gave more depth to them... well, to just about everyone but Will. Hmm. He's still a bit too aloof for my liking, but we still have a few books to go!

For some reason I had the impression that Greenwitch was not a strong entry in the series, perhaps because of its length (or lack thereof), but I really enjoyed it. I am definitely looking forward to reading the other books in the series!

I think that Jane's story in Greenwitch feels more "real" than Barney's in Over Sea, Under Stone or Will's in The Dark is Rising. Having more emphasis on the Wild Magic, rather than just Light and Dark means that the story deepens and strengthens. The question of "will this part of the quest succeed ?" is more subject to chance and not so much of a foregone conclusion.

I was actually having a problem with re-reading this series and was beginning to wonder if you had to be a certain age to enjoy it. That is if they really are "children's books". But I am right back into the story and thinking more positively about the first 2 books.

I really enjoyed the focus on Jane as well, and I was happy to see her and her brothers again - I find them more interesting than Will. The dialogue between the three siblings feels so real to me, the way they tease each other yet also protect and help each other too. Cooper does a great job with relationships like that - I thought the interactions between the Stantons was the best part about The Dark is Rising too.

However, the part when Merri and Will go underwater to talk to that spirit or god or whatever was really not written very well, IMO. I had no idea what was going on and had to reread the section. Sometimes I feel as though Cooper just doesn't give enough detail; she moves too fast. Greenwitch had enough story to have been a much longer book.

This was my favorite book so far of the Dark is Rising sequence. That really surprised me as it was not one of the award winners. I thought that the overall story was more interesting, and I loved that all of the characters got together for this one. And I still love the dog Rufus. Once I started the book, I did not put it down. I loved the part about the making of the Greenwitch and Jane's wish for it.
--BJ

I enjoyed the book, maybe not as much as the first two, but I think it served a worthwhile purpose. It joined the characters of the first two books, brought together the plots for me, and set the stage for whatever is coming next. I find that the third book of a finite series often ends up like that. It may not be the best, but it does what it needs to do. I was also confused about the underwater scene, but I just read it and tried not to analyze it too much!

I thought of something else I wanted to say. In this book, I especially liked the way Cooper seemed to be setting Jane up for something important. It seems that up to now, everyone's had their role, and hers was "token female." Now it looks like she's going to be part of the action, and that thrills me!

There were parts of Greenwitch that I always loved. The story is not as complex as in some of the other books, but I loved the misunderstanding and antipathy towards Will - as a child it made me feel like I was in on this wonderful secret with the boy with the special powers, and that was somehow very important to me at the time. These days I am less affected by such things, but I still admire that in this work.

But something else I loved and still love is the way Susan Cooper walks the line perfectly between Will the supernatural Old One and Will the little boy. When his uncle offes to take him to Cornwall the following day and Will rushes off and packs before his father has finished attempting to decline the offer - I could feel the boy's excitement. And when his father just looks at him and says nothing more than "Goodbye Will" as he comes down the stairs ready to go... 24 hours early - that amuses me still even though I have read this book a number of times.

I had all but forgotten the undersea discussion with Tethys, so even though I had never considered that a weak point of the book, I must now suppose that there was something lacking descriptively! It has been a long time since my last reading of this book (maybe 20 years) but I still remembered most of it - but even though I remembered the jumping from the cliff, I had forgotten why they did that!

So yes, if there is a criticism, it is that this scene was not as memorable as it should have been and clearly did not speak to me as other elements of the plot did.

I also identified with Barney in this book because at the time I read it I fancied myself as a bit of an artist too. Actually I am nothing more than mediocre in artistic ability, but I enjoyed drawing and painting when I was younger - thus those parts of the book also spoke to me.

As the action in this book was back in Trewissick, I have nothing to add regarding location.

All in all, I loved this book, and whilst its not the best of the series in my opinion, there were elements in it that I loved as much as in any of the other books.

I am very much enjoying re-reading these. Thanks to whoever started this.

Finally! I finished!

I must say, I'm in the group that thought this was the best of the books so far. I loved the Drew children and was very happy to have them back. It was nice to get away, sort of, from Will for awhile (sorry to all those who like him but I find myself groaning whenever the book focuses on him). I did enjoy the interaction between Will and the Drew children. I definitely agree will all those who say Cooper's real strength is the interaction between her characters. They're marvelous and fun to read.

I also agree with those who weren't quite sure what to make of the White Lady incident. As soon as Merriman and Will jumped off the cliff, I just kind of found myself going "Oh boy, here we go." It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but it definitely wasn't my favorite scene.

>150 Cait86:: I agree with everything you said. I think one of the main reasons I'm not loving these books (I like them, but I don't love them) is because there are so many places where there could have been beautiful detail that would have enriched the story so much, but alas, the books lack that description. Then again, these are youth fiction (I'm not sure if they're classified as children's or young adult's). I think teenagers have a shorter attention span and too much description would have them leaving the book for the TV in a jiffy. That's why, IMHO, Dickens is never really appreciated in high school. It's a fine line, I think, but overall, Cooper does a good job of treading it.

I know it's really late to join but reading your posts has made me want to read these books again. I'm going to dig up my copies and read fast to catch up.

That would be great, manderyth. It's never too late to start!

As I said some time ago, this book grew on me. When I first read it in the 70s following The Dark is Rising, I remember being really disappointed. I don't remember why specifically. I think because maybe TDiR is so dramatic in many ways--but certainly that scene where the ship comes up on land is every bit as dramatic. Anyhow, now I really appreciate not only the emergence of Jane's compassion as a key element, but also the interplay of all the characters. The visit to Tethys didn't bother me--I felt it was set up by the first book and, like the ceremony of the Wren in the second book, is some of the influx of Celtish mythology into the story. I always thought touches like that deepened the story. YMMV!

Two more books to go. The next one is always a difficult one for me--I'm looking forward to seeing all of your reactions to it.

Greenwitch has always been one of my favorite books in the series. I like the character of the Greenwitch. She's so old and has seen so much yet at the same time she's so alone and so childish. I think that Susan Cooper does and excellent job portraying those two differing character traits. I love the interaction between her and Jane, i think that Jane matures as a character because of her experiences in this book.

As has been said before, Cooper does and excellent job with character relationships and I think that is most evident with the interaction between the Drew children and Will.

Well we fell quiet again. Are we going to read "The Grey King" for October 8th?

I'm up for it!

I'm in too!

Yes!

I am in as well!

I'll be here too.

I have the book ready to go!
--BJ

Its the 8th October today so let the chat commence :)

This was one of the Newbery award winners in this series (Susan Cooper won it twice for books in this series). Personally I loved this book. It was not my favourite of the series, but I remember very much liking the way it started with Will losing his memory of who he is, and the search that would lead him to Cadfan's way.

I have more to say (especially about location, which is just a few miles north of me), but I'll wait to see what everyone else thinks first.

I also loved this book. In fact, I seem to like these books more the farther we get into the series. I especially loved all the explanation on pronouncing Welsh words, which I have always been curious about. I had fun trying to sound them all out instead of just reading over them.
--BJ

Well I confess, I pulled it out a couple of weeks ago, and promptly forgot about it, so I will be reading it today :(

>168 alcottacre:: Me too :( Schoolwork has made it impossible to keep up with my two group reads. Hopefully I'll be joining the conversation in a few days.

Well, I just finished it, and I thought it was terrific! Like BJ, the farther we get into the series, the better I am liking the books. I cannot wait for the next one!

Anyone else tempted to just keep reading?

The first three I was happy to read and wait but when I got to the end of The Grey King I just wanted to carry on. Part of that was that, for the first time, I actually got an impression of the series being unfinished. The end felt too abrupt —as though there should be more. The first three I could see myself reading as stand-alone stories while at the same time they built towards a fuller world.

I enjoyed this one as well... yep, I'm on board with 'the series just keeps getting better'. I was sorry that the book wasn't longer, for that matter, but I'm liking this unique approach Cooper had to the books -- everything is focused in a specific place for the duration of the book, they're not traipsing all over the country in the fight against the Dark. I think for children, it probably makes it easier to relate to the books -- one person can make a difference, and they don't even need to go very far to do it. Maybe that'll change in the final volume, but it's certainly been a refreshing approach so far.

As I mentioned, The Dysynni is just a little north of where I am, and I have been there often. Unsurprisingly I have visited the locations mentioned in this book, and I can see Tywyn from where I live. But rather than scan and post my photos, I have found some pictures of the locations on Flickr that are better than mine.

St Cadfan's Church

Cadfan's Stone

The photographer provides commentary on the inscription (which is not too important to the book). Unfortunately the commentary is in Welsh ;)

It reads:

"Briefly and in broad terms, the most likely interpretations are: " and there follows discussion of interpretations. I provide a translation in footnote {1} of this post!

Tal Y Llyn Lake (Lyn Mwyngil)

Mwyngil can be translated as pleaseant/gentle corner/nook/retreat.

Tal Y Llyn from the Machynlleth Road

The Lower slopes of Cader Idris are on the right. That road is very picturesque and there is a stretch that frequently gets used in car advertisements in the UK.

Looking down from the lower slopes near where Will would have tripped

Craig Yr Aderyn (Bird Rock)

A shot from down the valley with lowland farm (not one of the farms mentioned, as Susan Cooper says she moved these around a bit, but this would be roughly where they were), Craig Yr Aderyn in the mid ground and Cader Idris in the distance. The photographer misidentifies "Bird Rock" as "Eagle's Rock". There are no eagles in the valley!

Enjoy! :)

*

{1} Translation of the photographer's commentary on the Cadfan stone inscription. The words in capitals are the actual inscription. As you will see there is some debate as to what they mean (and I should add the bad grammar is not my bad translation :) Its an attempt to faithfully render the interpretation)

By Ifor Williams: A side
CENGRUI CIMALTEDGU ADGAN
'Ceinrwy, wife/woman married Addian'
By John Morris Jones:
'Tegryn, Mallteg {and} Gwaddian'

By Ifor Williams: D side
ANT ERUNC DU BUT MARCIAU
'very close to Fud(meaning "silent") {and to} Feirchio'
By John Morris Jones:
'Together with Dufud and Marchiawn'

By Ifor Williams: A bottom side
MC ERTRI
'memorial to the three'

By Ifor Williams: B side
CUN BEN CELEN
'Cun wife of Celyn(meaning Holly)'
By John Morris Jones:
'Cynien gelein, i.e. 'Dead body / Fallen Cynien'

By Ifor Williams: C side
TRICET NITANAM
'remains {the} loss {and the} yearning'
By John Morris Jones:
'Lies below'

By Ifor Williams: bottom side of C
MORT CIC PE TUAR
'memorial to four'
By John Morris Jones:
'Tomb four'

{so now the photographer gives the two completed translations:}

IW
Ceinrwy woman married Addian
Very close to Fud and Meirchio
Restoration of the three

Cun wife Celyn
Remains the loss and yearning
Four monument

JMJ
Lies below
Body Cynien
Tegryn tomb, Cynien etc., four
Tegryn, Mallteg {and} Gwaddian, along with Dufud {and} Marchiawn

Thank you so much for all the wonderful photos! It is so beautiful!
--BJ

I agree! Lovely pics.

Love the pictures. that first shot of the lake is absolutely gorgeous! Thanks so much.

I let the time for re-reading The Grey King slip up on me, with the result that with other reading I had going, I just got it read today. This is one I always approach with trepidation because

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S

the tragedy of Cafall's death and the sheer ugliness of Pritchard's character are both so painful. Once past that, however, again we get the lyrical descriptive prose describing the landscapes so beautifully (and thanks again for the pictures, Stephen). And we get John Rowland's statement of the case for us humans, and a clearer picture yet of the Old Ones. All setting us up for the finale which, like a few others have mentioned around the site, I am no way going to wait a whole month to read. In fact, as soon as I finish the library book due tomorrow, I'm on to reading Silver on the Tree so that I can appreciate it with no memory loss from one to the other.

At the beginning, I wasn't sure what all the fuss here was about The Grey King. All of a sudden, it picked up, and I ended up just sitting and reading it through to the end, ignoring all the other things I should have been doing. If the library had been open when I finished it, I would have gone straight out to pick up the next. I am also going to read Silver on the Tree right away, while I'm still in the atmosphere.
Rebecca, thank you again for starting this group read!
And Sirfurboy, thank YOU again for the pictures and background! They have really added a lot to my reading of this series!

>177 tloeffler:: No problem! I'm glad everyone's enjoying the group read!

While I'm not done with the book (I'm about a third of the way through it due to a paper I have to have finished on Thursday), I must so far, it's the most enjoyable! I'm wishing more and more I didn't have this paper due because I want to sit down and read it, but then I start to feel guilty about my paper. That and, even at 23, I think I'm a bit too old to pull of all nighters. They make it impossible to function the next day, so I actually have to work on my paper before hand... :(

Just a thought, but would anyone want to continue this group read? I had the thought that we could continue doing one book a month and maybe focus on YA books (actually, the first books that popped into my head was Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials Trilogy) but of course, we could do whatever. I even have a Vizu account so I can make polls so we could vote on the next book. If anyone's interested, that is.

I was going to suggest that we continue, and propose Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles. It's my OTHER favorite YA fantasy series. It's also a five book series, and I love how the books grow with the character.

I loved the Prydain series. Another great series (well couple of books) is Alan Garner's Weirdstone of Brisingaman and The Moon of Gomrath. (My other favourite YA series).

>179 ronincats: & 180: Well, I don't recognize either of those series so I would love to read them for a group read!

Finally finished! I, like most people here it seems, thought this was the best book of the series so far. I was nervous when I found out this focused so much on Will as so far, he's not been my favorite character. But he wasn't some all knowing, all powerful Old One. He was struggling so much through this book that finally, I found him relatable.

Cafall's death was heartbreaking. As a lover of all things canine (including my own shepherd dog who loves nothing more than to curl around my feet while I read), I found that scene to be almost tear inducing. I do think I actually lost my breath for a moment or two. And the worst thing was that you could see it coming but you knew there was nothing you could do to stop it from happening.

I actually pitied Pritchard. Yes, he was despicable, but he seemed like one of those people who blames all their misfortunes on others rather than taking responsibility and making failure an opportunity to improve oneself. He just assumed he knew better and had it harder and I can't help but pity people like that, the people who spend all their time wallowing in their self-pity, because you know they can never really be happy.

I'm very excited to see what comes of Bran. I loved how Will found out that rather Bran being his help, he was actually an aid for Bran. I squealed a little bit when I found out the truth of Bran's birth. I honestly did not see that coming and I can't wait to see what Cooper makes of it.

I, too, might start on Silver on the Tree early, but for me, it's because I have so little free time to read lately and I don't want to get behind again!

Is November 8th a good date to plan on starting the discussion on Silver on the Tree?

Makes no difference to me. I'm reading it now, slowly, just a chapter or two a night, savoring it. A little over half way through.

ETA I always hated Cafall's death. So typical of the Welsh classic tales, but it's like, as soon as he's fulfilled his destiny, he's expendable. I hate it, and I hate reading about the unfair deaths of animals!!! So I always near cry as well, Rebecca Ann.

Me, too, on the poor sweet dog!! My daughter warned me about that part because I always want things to go well for the animals. She knew I wouldn't like it.
--BJ

Just to confirm that I am in on this. A little snowed under in work but I will be able to read the book on time.

Just finished it, a little bit early, but I am ready for November 8th. Looking forward to the discussion;)

I also just finished the last chapter last night. Ready to go on the 8th.

Finished up at the deadline - drat all those library books that stand in the way :) Loved it! I am so glad I did this group read.

BTW - There is a very nice picture of Aberdyfi here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdyfi for those of you who like to know how things look like I do.

Silver on the tree is a wonderful climax to a series that I still think of as one of the best I ever read. re-reading it after all this time, I found myself more aware of its deficiencies - but be that as it may, it was an intelligent, rich and imaginative work. There is a depth to "Silver on the Tree" that is not found in the first book. I love what Susan Cooper did with the legend of Cantre'r Gwaelod, and also that this is not the only theme in the book.

The ending made me ache when I first read it. It was a book that kept me thinking for a long time.

I can find some photos again of the key locations (which again are mostly just a few miles north of where I live, and I have visited often). I'll do that in a later post.

One pedantic point - I think Susan Cooper did her own translations into Welsh, and there were a few places where some errors slipped by the firends she asked to check it. In the Grey king there was a minor grammatical error (missed a mutation), and in this one, some phrasing was awkward ("Ewch y llyn" meaning "Go the lake" should surely have been "Gadewch y llyn" - "Leave the lake", or "Ewch i'r llyn" - "go to the lake", or even "Ewch i'ch llyn" - "go to your lake"). The Welsh was also uncolloquial

More obviously the line in the poem:

Y maent yr mynyddoedd yn canu,
ac y mae'r arglwyddes yn dod.

Is wrong because in Welsh, the form of "to be" should be singular even for plural nouns. (you would say "the mountains is singing"...except the welsh verb is at the front of the sentence).

So this should be:

Y mae'r mynyddoedd yn canu,
ac y mae'r arglwyddes yn dod.

Pedantic, yes...so feel free to ignore me. It will not have detracted from the story one bit, which is why I did not mention it before the read was over!

I can see where it would be annoying if you know the language, sirfurboy, but she could have made all of it up and it wouldn't have affected my enjoyment! Sometimes ignorance really IS bliss. I liked this story best of all of them. Everything came together (especially minor things from the previous books that puzzled me), plot twists and surprises were believable (my only problem with it all is the memory-erasing device--it's too easy to use), and I really enjoyed the book, and the entire series.

Thank you again, Rebecca, for suggesting this. This is not a genre that I've ever delved into, and this was an awesome baptism! And thank all of you for your insights (and especially sirfurboy for the fabulous pictures and explanations!)!

I also loved this book. I especially liked how each of the kids had their own special part to play in it. I loved hearing about the Welsh and seeing all the photos. This is a great series, which gets stronger as the books go along -- kind of unusual in a series. My kids were right; I loved it!!
--BJ

>191 tloeffler:: You're welcome! I haven't finished yet. I'm behind in all my classes right now so I'm trying to catch up on that before I even begin this book, but hopefully I'll be able to finish it in the next week.

I'm glad everyone is enjoying this! Reading's so much more fun when it's shared amongst friends :)

You are so right! And I also want to say thanks so much for a wonderful suggestion!
--BJ

Using this group read as a jumping off point, anyone interested can join several of us next summer as we read through Garth Nix's Abhorsen trilogy. We are going to do 1 book a month over the summer months, June, July, and August in a similar fashion to what we did here.

Anyone is welcome to join us because reading together just enhances the enjoyment, like RebeccaAnn says.

I think that my daughter might have those books, too, so I will plan to join in. :)
--BJ

Count me in! What are the books in the trilogy? I'm not very SF-savvy, and I want to be able to look for the books beforehand.

#197: The 3 books in the trilogy are Sabriel, Lirael, and Abhorsen, Terri.

Thanks, Stasia! They're on my Christmas list now, if I don't just buy them before then!

I'd love to as well, if I don't forget about it. I don't do to well remembering things seven months in advance. I actually forgot my birthday once :P

I meant to post some photos in this thread for "Silver on the Tree" but I have been busy with work and only just finding enough time for reading - not enough for posting about books sadly.

However I had a few minutes spare and have searched out some photos on Flickr (which again are generally better than mine although I include my own photo of Carn March Arthur. Sadly I was unable to find one for echo rock, and I have not scanned my own. If you imagine the landscape around Llyn Barfog, and insert a vertical face of rock that is not huge, but hidden in a kind of hollow to aid the echo, then you have imagined it.

In any case, here is a brief tour of the sites of "Silver on the Tree":

Caerleon Amphitheatre.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lydneykopite/3646545215/

Susan Cooper notes that the excavation of this site happened a good deal earlier than in her book. It is now a major visitor's attraction in the care of Cadw - Heritage in Wales. I was last there at Easter, and it proved to be a slightly wiffy experience as the adjacent farm had been muck spreading. Upwind of the farm though was very pretty, and my daughter - who has been reading "Roman Mysteries" was able to imagine gladiators fighting, whilst I thought about a young Will Stanton placing the signs of the light under a century stone.

Carn March Arthur

http://www.tourwales.org.uk/node/11

I think this picture shows the shape of the hoofprint off to its best effect. Nothing very pretty here though - its a slab of rock on an upland moor - not quite as close to Llyn Barfog as the book suggests.

View from Carn March Arthur looking towards Llyn Barfog (obscured by the hill)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/owainjones/3860020316/

This one gives you an impression of the landscape on that walk.

Bwlch Gwyn (end of the paved road) looking down towards Aberdyfi / the Dysynni valley

http://www.flickr.com/photos/owainjones/1118012649/

You can drive happily to Bwlch Gwyn but most people choose to walk the remaining distance to Carn March Arthur, Llyn Barfog and Echo Rock.

It is just beyond Bwlch Gwyn that you can look down over the Dyfi Estuary, the point at which Bran and Will would have had the view of the Lost Land. Unfortunately I can find no good pictures of that view, but in any case you have to imagine the lost land stretching a mile out to sea.

The legend of the lost land is supported by the fact that there is a submarine petrified forest in the dyfi estuary and the surrounding marsh land. At low tide it is possible to see petrfied tree stumps - mostly on the Ynyslas side of the estuary.

For instance:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_optimum/2226958790/

Also on our side of the estuary is the "old city wall " of the lost land, at Sarn Cynfelin:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/viacreativa/3090440730/

In reality this is glacial moraine, but it stretches out for at least quarter of a mile into the sea, dead straight, and is a hazard to shipping. It looks a lot like an old embankment wall.

Llyn Barfog / The Bearded Lake

http://www.flickr.com/photos/owainjones/553222090/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/owainjones/561088478/

Not much to say about this. Its an upland lake, not particularly large but nice and remote.

The National Library have a collection of old photographs scanned as part of the "Gathering the Jewels" project, including this one showing Aberdyfi in the 19th Century, complete with ships. These days there is too much sand for such large ships, and it is unlikely anyone will dredge the harbour, so there are only pleasure craft.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/llgc/3833890702/

Another picture of Aberdyfi - Nice light but you don't see the lovely beach

http://www.flickr.com/photos/keithtrivett/3814167440/in/pool-aberdovey

And here is Aberdyfi from Ynyslas (from where they were floating the wood over)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/viacreativa/1471321579/

here is the jetty in Aberdyfi. A bit scary if you have small children as the river runs fast by the jetty and imagining the child falling over the side is enough to give parents nightmares (well me, anyway) - especially when they refuse to hold your hand!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_crutchley/3586161713/

here is a nice one of Cwm Maethlon, which can be seen from Llyn Barfog.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/owainjones/1601498647/

Enjoy!

Lovely, Stephen!

I agree. Thank you SO much, Stephen, for posting these pictures. They are absolutely beautiful, and you are wonderful for sharing them with us so we can vicariously experience the books we read!

We haven't done anything about polling about going on to another book, so I am just going to do it by fiat. I am going to start a thread for a group read of The Chronicles of Prydain, also a five-book children's fantasy series based on Welsh mythology. The books are The Book of Three, The Black Cauldron, The Castle of Llyr, Taran Wanderer, and The High King, and are my very favorite fantasy series. I love how events throughout the five books are all woven together in inevitable but unforseen fashion. The second book was a Newbury Honor Book and the 5th won the Newbury Medal, but you will be unable to appreciate it without the first four. I look forward to sharing this with those of you who choose to join me at The Chronicles of Prydain

I should have mentioned this on the group read thread - Stasia and I will likely be making the 2010 group this weekend and we can go ahead and make this set of books our first "official" group read thread.

>204 ronincats:: I feel kind of bad because I just finished Silver on the Tree this morning but RL got in the way this last month so my apologies for posting anything on this last book of the series!

>205 drneutron:: You know, I've been wondering who was supposed to start that. It seems many other challenges have their 2010 group made already and I was starting to get a little worried :)